[TheDubhlainn]

I'm a believer that idea of race or differentiating between people based on skin color is absurd. Its all pseudoscience but there is little to no difference between two people with different skin colors, genetically speaking. There are only differences in culture and experiences, which differ from person to person, regardless of race. Is there a "black culture" in America? I suppose you can argue that, but I think a lot of people take the idea of black culture too seriously. It has become prescriptive as opposed to descriptive.

Go INTJs go!

[CaesAug]

	Originally Posted by TheDubhlainn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is there a "black culture" in America?

Hip-hop culture basically...

[JTG]

	Originally Posted by CaesAug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hip-hop culture basically...

I think that means urban culture, not black culture. "Black culture" would be a misnomer, for a
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
of
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[deconspire]

	Originally Posted by TheDubhlainn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Go INTJs go!

Fine. Everything except your first sentence is laughably ignorant and doesn't deserve the time it would take to point this out. You've obviously not had much contact with the black community.

	Originally Posted by CaesAug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hip-hop culture basically...

...nor have you.

[theiceman]

Originally Posted by TheDubhlainn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm a believer that idea of race or differentiating between people based on skin color is absurd. Its all pseudoscience but there is little to no difference between two people with different skin colors, genetically speaking. There are only differences in culture and experiences, which differ from person to person, regardless of race. Is there a "black culture" in America? I suppose you can argue that, but I think a lot of people take the idea of black culture too seriously. It has become prescriptive as opposed to descriptive. Go INTJs go!

Yeah there is a 'black culture' in America. Even though there are little or no differences between people with different skin colors it is used as a labeling mechanism. Black culture exists because people have labeled people with black skin to be either an in-group or an out-group (depends on your perspective). Black culture evolved over time because slaves found a way to cherish each others' existence when they were being oppressed by the White property owners. I'm only talking about the events in America but if you truly want the history of it then look into African studies because a lot happened before 'black people' arrived in America.

Now 'black culture' today is an evolved form of the original slaves culture from back when slavery existed. Although it has evolved over time it still maintains the same form because black people are usually seen as being inferior, criminal and unable to do simple tasks. My hypothesis about the situation is that 'modern black people' got sick of being labeled as this and started embracing the labels given to them by other races. This is how rap/hip-hop music evolved to the form it is today and how white people rapping is considered to be somewhat taboo despite there being deviations from the norm. Now music isn't the only thing in this black culture but there are several other developments. However, what needs to be said is that the average black person starts off in a far worse situation than their counterparts from other races. Not only does that average person have to deal with potentially growing up in poverty but dealing with racial stereotypes and discrimination as well.

Hope this helps you. You should definitely look into sociology and specifically black studies if you want to know more about this situation. There are some concepts and my own thinking that I left off this just so the OP would get the gist of my hypothesis/idea.

[CaesAug]

	Originally Posted by deaconspire To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fine. Everything except your first sentence is laughably ignorant and doesn't deserve the time it would take to point this out. You've obviously not had much contact with the black community. ...nor have you.

I'm a black person.

[DeaconSyre]

To me, racial identity is a 'correlation not causation' situation.

So, there is a set of things (experiences, thoughts, religions, etc.) that can be labeled as exemplars of the set known as "black culture". Individuals can then relate to how much "black culture" they have to determine their personal cultural identity.

I don't know if that means anything to anyone except me.

---------- Post added 02-12-2012 at 04:06 PM ----------

Right! The more important thing about my model is that it's internal as opposed to external. No one can assign you the "black culture" but your life may have a lot of the same elements.

[darniem]

I'm white. I am from South Carolina. I went to a public high school where the black and white student populations were about even.

Based off of purely anecdotal evidence, it seemed to me that the black students definitely maintained a sense of "this is what a black person should and should not do; this is how a black person should and should not act." Any black student that deviated from this was "acting white" and was alienated by the other black students. One of my friends was such a student alienated from the others because he liked to dress neatly, took advanced classes, and used proper grammar, and attended the same private school that I had before high school. His family lived in the same neighborhood as all the other people who alienated him and came from the same socio-economic class (our private school gave scholarships to people like me and him), so he was basically ostracized for not acting like a gangsta thug. His first wife left him after less than 2 years for not being "black enough."

[Distance]

Cultural identity. Why is it necessary?

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Cultural identity. Why is it necessary?

Rapid perspective calculation and formation when examining problems on a large scale.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Rapid perspective calculation and formation when examining problems on a large scale.

That's an outside/in view that's got more air than substance since gauging anyone by their superficial genetic traits, doesn't guarantee an accurate view of the individual (eg. Visible minority subsumed into [name that culture]).

What about inside/out, when looking at different cultures? Us vs. them? If so, how useful is this perspective beyond divisiveness?

[deconspire]

	Originally Posted by CaesAug To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm a black person.

What the fuck then, man? It's more than that. Hip-hop culture is just a part of it. Don't just be waterin' it down for the "white folk".
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's an outside/in view that's got more air than substance since gauging anyone by their superficial genetic traits, doesn't guarantee an accurate view of the individual (eg. Visible minority subsumed into [name that culture]). What about inside/out, when looking at different cultures? Us vs. them? If so, how useful is this perspective beyond divisiveness?

Huh? I don't really understand what you're saying in relation to my post. I think this is probably due to a misunderstanding of my post. So I'll give an example:

Lets say you have a topic you want to analyze. Here are some:
Sexuality
Loyalty
Independence

and now lets say you have a good idea of the pieces that go into the following sets:
Black Culture
White Culture
Jewish Culture

Now you can examine how the different pieces of the different sets affect the perspective on the topics. If you can create an accurate perspective for these sets then your personal perspective now includes three large sets.

Obviously it doesn't include them perfectly, and there are better ways to do perspective, but this is a necessary step to learn more advanced techniques.

[Paul Siraisi]

What do you mean by 'descriptive not prescriptive'? That it's not possible for a culture to be described as sucking according to generally agreed standards of suckiness?

[Distance]

Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Huh? I don't really understand what you're saying in relation to my post. I think this is probably due to a misunderstanding of my post. So I'll give an example: ( Show Spoiler ) Lets say you have a topic you want to analyze. Here are some: Sexuality Loyalty Independence and now lets say you have a good idea of the pieces that go into the following sets: Black Culture White Culture Jewish Culture Now you can examine how the different pieces of the different sets affect the perspective on the topics. If you can create an accurate perspective for these sets then your personal perspective now includes three large sets. Obviously it doesn't include them perfectly, and there are better ways to do perspective, but this is a necessary step to learn more advanced techniques.

Your post was crystal clear to me. I ask you again. What good are highly flawed suppositions, on a one-on-one level?

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Your post was crystal clear to me. I ask you again. What good are highly flawed suppositions, on a one-on-one level?

I guess I'm confused at to why you're trying to use this information on a one-to-one level.

You can never properly form a specific person's perspective. You are not them.

This information can help you learn different ways of interpreting the same information which will then help you notice/understand other people's possibly different perspectives. This is one of those "advanced techniques" I mentioned.

[Distance]

Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I guess I'm confused at to why you're trying to use this information on a one-to-one level. You can never properly form a specific person's perspective. You are not them. This information can help you learn different ways of interpreting the same information which will then help you notice/understand other people's possibly different perspectives. This is one of those "advanced techniques" I mentioned.

Are you understanding my perspective using "advanced techniques"? I understand yours using my one-on-one technique.

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Are you understanding my perspective using "advanced techniques"? I understand yours using my one-on-one technique.

What? I said you can't form a specific person's perspective. So, no; I'm not understanding your perspective.

Do you only have one one-on-one technique? I have a hard time maintaining the efficacy of my systems if they're all tightly coupled into one technique.

[TheDubhlainn]

	Originally Posted by deaconspire To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What the fuck then, man? It's more than that. Hip-hop culture is just a part of it. Don't just be waterin' it down for the "white folk". To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

Hi Deacon,

I saw your first post. I'm African American as well. See this is prime example of what I mean. Am I supposed to hold the same opinions as you because I am African American? My family is from primarily from New Orleans...I have been around plenty of African Americans. Am I SUPPOSED to ascribe to certain patterns of behavior or think a certain way because of the color of my skin?

---------- Post added 02-12-2012 at 10:27 PM ----------

Originally Posted by darniem To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm white. I am from South Carolina. I went to a public high school where the black and white student populations were about even. Based off of purely anecdotal evidence, it seemed to me that the black students definitely maintained a sense of "this is what a black person should and should not do; this is how a black person should and should not act." Any black student that deviated from this was "acting white" and was alienated by the other black students. One of my friends was such a student alienated from the others because he liked to dress neatly, took advanced classes, and used proper grammar, and attended the same private school that I had before high school. His family lived in the same neighborhood as all the other people who alienated him and came from the same socio-economic class (our private school gave scholarships to people like me and him), so he was basically ostracized for not acting like a gangsta thug. His first wife left him after less than 2 years for not being "black enough."

That;s incredibly sad darniem. Truly truly sad. Same thing has pretty much happened to me though. I'm pretty much raceless (for lack of a better description) unfortunately. You get it worse from both sides. You have to deal with the occasional racism and discrimination from whites, and you have to deal with not being accepted by people who look like you. I'm been lectured by family members before for "acting white". God forbid a African American speak well and represent himself in a fashion that doesn't fall in line with "the norm". It turns you into a misanthrope.

---------- Post added 02-12-2012 at 10:29 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Rapid perspective calculation and formation when examining problems on a large scale.

ily lol

---------- Post added 02-12-2012 at 10:33 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Paul Siraisi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What do you mean by 'descriptive not proscriptive'? That it's not possible for a culture to be described as sucking according to generally agreed standards of suckiness?

Prescriptive as in stereotyping, and reinforcing stereotypes (ie. You are black and you don't like rap music? Well then, you aren't black because you are doing it wrong etc.) Not all black people ascribe to "black culture"

[Tito]

Originally Posted by theiceman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah there is a 'black culture' in America. Even though there are little or no differences between people with different skin colors it is used as a labeling mechanism. Black culture exists because people have labeled people with black skin to be either an in-group or an out-group (depends on your perspective). Black culture evolved over time because slaves found a way to cherish each others' existence when they were being oppressed by the White property owners. I'm only talking about the events in America but if you truly want the history of it then look into African studies because a lot happened before 'black people' arrived in America. Now 'black culture' today is an evolved form of the original slaves culture from back when slavery existed. Although it has evolved over time it still maintains the same form because black people are usually seen as being inferior, criminal and unable to do simple tasks. My hypothesis about the situation is that 'modern black people' got sick of being labeled as this and started embracing the labels given to them by other races. This is how rap/hip-hop music evolved to the form it is today and how white people rapping is considered to be somewhat taboo despite there being deviations from the norm. Now music isn't the only thing in this black culture but there are several other developments. However, what needs to be said is that the average black person starts off in a far worse situation than their counterparts from other races. Not only does that average person have to deal with potentially growing up in poverty but dealing with racial stereotypes and discrimination as well. Hope this helps you. You should definitely look into sociology and specifically black studies if you want to know more about this situation. There are some concepts and my own thinking that I left off this just so the OP would get the gist of my hypothesis/idea.

The reason the US has a 'black culture' is due to segregation.

If you look at other countries with black (and mixed race) minorities, they usually are well absorbed into the national culture. They don't even have racial neighborhoods, at least not as pronounced as in the US where its obvious when you're in the 'black side of town.'

From Brazil to Cuba, even in Great Britain. Not much of a 'black culture,' people there are just Brazilian, Cuban, British. Everyone pretty much shares the same culture, influenced by everyone.

Even in Puerto Rico, there's no such thing as a 'black culture,' despite Puerto Rico being part of the US. They are all culturally Puerto Rican.

In the US things got messed up during segregation, since in many of those other countries they also had slavery and, apparently, that didn't lead to creating separate racial cultures.

This might also explain why race is such a big factor in the African American identity, whereas its hardly thought of by blacks (and mixed race) people in other countries, even in countries where they are a minority.

It also probably explains why blacks (and mixed race) people in other countries don't feel the need to hyphenate their nationality, unlike in the US where simply being American is not enough, they have to be African-Americans, almost denoting that they're not 'authentically' Americans or maybe, even, less Americans than others.

I have yet to hear of African-British or African-Brazilians or African-Puerto Ricans, not even African-French. They are simply British, Brazilians, Puerto Ricans and French. Not that African-Americans are not seen as Americans outside the US, but inside the US, well, you know the rest. lol

Its also quite normal for Americans to assume that culture and race are tied together, or that certain cultural traits are due to racial differences, hence the expectations behind certain people of certain races. That's not really how things work outside the US and often times, makes US society appear rather strange. For example, a black French person would be seen, somehow, as less French in the eyes of an American. Yet, in France, a black French person is as much French and anyone else.

The whole negating the existence of mixed race is also a rather US phenomenon. This brings to light the oddity of considering Barack Obama black when everyone knows he's mixed. Many people are still confused about this, mostly because Americans have been conditioned to see mixed traits as black too, whereas in much of the world, mixed traits are seen as mixed; and Obama shows mixed traits.

Ah, this is getting too long. My two cents.

[fmr3]

to say there is no black culture is to say there is no culture at all. OP you are very ignorant.

every population ranging from 2 people to billions have different dynamics and they are what makes a culture.

[TheDubhlainn]

	Originally Posted by fmr3 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	to say there is no black culture is to say there is no culture at all. OP you are very ignorant. every population ranging from 2 people to billions have different dynamics and they are what makes a culture.

First of all, I never claimed to know everything, but I know what a culture is thank you.

Second, this thread is mainly about prescriptive vs. descriptive labels in regards to "black culture".

Third, that bit about my view on culture was just my opinion. I acknowledge that there is a culture that has been named "black culture", and while generally accurate, it isn't descriptive of the entire population.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What? I said you can't form a specific person's perspective. So, no; I'm not understanding your perspective. Do you only have one one-on-one technique? I have a hard time maintaining the efficacy of my systems if they're all tightly coupled into one technique.

How about looking at people as individual human beings, rather than objects to categorise? Life's a lot easier that way, particularly when people don't fit into stereotypical roles.

Once again, what's the purpose of cultures, particularly cultures within cultures? In my opinion, they're just useless ways to segregate.

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How about looking at people as individual human beings, rather than objects to categorise? Life's a lot easier that way, particularly when people don't fit into stereotypical roles. Once again, what's the purpose of cultures, particularly cultures within cultures? In my opinion, they're just useless ways to segregate.

Wow. You got the wrong interpretation of my perspective. I don't categorize people. I categorize groups of people.

Individual people are amazing enigmas to me still. People I've known all my life are still changing in ways I didn't expect.

Why limit your brain to interfacing with people only on an interpersonal level though. Sometimes you need to think BIG scale. You need heuristics.

Cultures have as much purpose as humans. No one person is responsible for a culture. They just happen if you get people to stay put long enough.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by DeaconSyre To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wow. You got the wrong interpretation of my perspective. I don't categorize people. I categorize groups of people.

You state this.

	Individual people are amazing enigmas to me still. People I've known all my life are still changing in ways I didn't expect.

Then state this which conflicts with your first paragraph where it lacks logical progression.

	Why limit your brain to interfacing with people only on an interpersonal level though. Sometimes you need to think BIG scale. You need heuristics.

Only if you're in the pseudo sciences or marketing shit to stereotypes.

	Cultures have as much purpose as humans. No one person is responsible for a culture. They just happen if you get people to stay put long enough.

Cultures, particular insularity within other cultures, are useless as shit on a stick. The more people segregate themselves, the more they'll be segregated.