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INTJ + ADHD + High IQ = ? None
Old 02-05-2012, 07:33 PM   #1
QED
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It took me twenty years to discover I am a subject to ADHD because of the "trinity" mentioned above. All these years seemed to me as though I was in one consecutive state that could only be defined as "walking alongside the verge of precipice with constantly recurring journeys there and back again". For the fact I was always calm and from time to time (as long as I was interested) showed my capacities almost in every field (as long as it was of any importance to me), teachers would always say something like: "Ma'am, you have a brilliant son, too bad his brilliance come and passes like a wind changing its direction"; and my mother would answer something like: "I understand you perfectly, we will do something about it, isn't that right, *****? (glancing at me).

If you asked me what I felt at those times I would simply answer: nothing at all. For at those times my mind wandered with "Alice in the Wonderland" and I liked it more than anything else.

But that is just one episode. Merely a picture from the childhood. Things got interesting later.

While attending 7-8, especially 9-10 etc. grades I started to get on my classmates' nerves. For the fact they were simply irritated when after calling to read my home assignment about some writer I would simply take my notebook and looking into its blank pages (after hyper focusing) read impromptu created interpretation. After finishing "reading" teacher would say something like: "amazing job *****, thoughts worth more than our grading system can offer but you know the rules dear boy".

And of course I knew the "rules". That's why even if it was a short lasting moment of brilliance it was a moment worth creating. For in these moments I felt proud of myself making everybody remember who I really was and what I was capable of. It was like a reminder for everyone who treated me as some delusional idealist that deep inside me there lurked intellectual giant who could easily overcome everything you threw at him (of course during times when I wanted from the bottom of my heart for such thing to happen).

To make long story short, for one year (after finishing school) I studied law at university (nightmarish experience, will not elaborate on details), now I'm studying philosophy.

Only recently I found out about ADHD. For only recently scientists changed their opinions about something like: "it is impossible for a mere human being to have both ADHD and high IQ - such anomalies doesn't exist!". Well I have even greater phenomenon to refer to i.e. INTJ + ADHD + High IQ = "it's still hard to say what".

Maybe future will show. Right now on my working table there are sheets of paper with novel ideas written all over. The only thing needed for those ideas to reach broad day light - a bit of elaboration. Here comes the hard part.

In other words, INTJ + ADHD + High IQ = (your answer here).
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:46 PM   #2
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Kwizats Haderach.
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:52 PM   #3
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Underachiever extraordinaire.
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Old 02-05-2012, 07:57 PM   #4
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See this is why I am so contemptuous of the field of psychiatry. It's all make believe bullshit. I always had a short attention span and a high IQ. Why would anyone who isn't an idiot even want a long attention span? To work on boring crap?
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #5
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I don't generally like to talk about IQ, but I'm all of the above. I'm a senior in college, and I've known about my ADHD for 2 years, and my being an INTJ for one. My IQ? Well, I've both taken a test, and there's no other explanation for my grades being so high for the miniscule amount of time I study relative to others.

I'm looking to go into strategic marketing. I'm definitely an INTJ, but I have some E and P qualities, due mainly, in my opinion, to my ADHD.

Other people struggle with procrastination? I have one of the worst cases around, and yet I have the mind of a strong 'J', but the body of a 'P'. I can be a mastermind in planning out corporate strategy (at least compared to my peers), yet I struggle to organize my day, or to finally do my laundry for once.

I find I work better in groups than alone, as I'm both an auditory learner, and I find it hard to focus and keep myself accountable by myself. I relatively easily meet people and engage in small talk, though I find it difficult to get closer to someone than arm's reach.

I dive into new projects with more enthusiasm than anyone else, and yet finish with far less. And organizational and anti-procrastination skills always elude me, no matter how hard I try. But I'm definitely no INTP - I'm too decisive, and I almost plan my procrastination.

  Originally Posted by SarcasticVlad
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Underachiever extraordinaire.

It's what I feel like. Everyone tells me I'm far more capable. I could have a 4.0 GPA if I could sit down and study for more than 1 hour by myself. I could have 3 job offers, if I'd just make myself apply to some. It's pretty disheartening.

  Originally Posted by Ricardo Diaz
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See this is why I am so contemptuous of the field of psychiatry. It's all make believe bullshit. I always had a short attention span and a high IQ. Why would anyone who isn't an idiot even want a long attention span? To work on boring crap?

You trivialize ADHD by simply describing it as "short attention span". Brain scans show fundamental differences between people with and without ADHD. It's far more complex than most realize, and is still not properly understood, though there's more research being conducted now than there ever has been.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:04 PM   #6
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Increase the ADHD. Carefully.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:18 PM   #7
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This applies to me too. I'm a college freshman. My behavior is very P due to my ADHD, but my mindset is hardcore J. This has led to some pathological thinking on my part because I have this innate belief that I could achieve a 4.0 if I want to, and I know it's true. I've done amazing things in the past, whenever my ADHD allowed, that I cannot replicate with any reliability. It has led to my being fixated on getting a 4.0 even though my brain is clearly out of its prime in this time of the year. I have a class where the homework is very much busywork. You do it, but you don't learn anything from it. Worse, you have to do it a certain way. Especially when instructions are vague, I take them upon myself and either not do it well, or do it very creatively that completely defies the instructions. My grades, subsequently, is horrible. Last term, I got a 3.9 (same course load, I would say even harder). This term I'd be lucky to get a 3.5.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:27 PM   #8
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You trivialize ADHD by simply describing it as "short attention span". Brain scans show fundamental differences between people with and without ADHD. It's far more complex than most realize, and is still not properly understood, though there's more research being conducted now than there ever has been.

Maybe. But what difference does it make? I believe it's a personality type. Would someone with ADD have a better chance of working 9-5 or becoming an entrepreneur? Which would you prefer. Of course not all 9-5 gigs are crap, the world needs doctors, engineers and scientists as much as it needs entrepreneurs, but without the entrepreneur no one's going to be paying the non-ADD types. It's a personality type. What does it matter as long as it doesn't affect the quality of brain function? I love snorting ritalin (local generic brand though) and coke when I need to focus, but the idea of forcibly drugging children 24/7 on that stuff in order to somehow zombify them in order to increase productivity is appalling. As with adults, most people are idiots. They aren't qualified to make a choice for themselves. They do not differentiate between a psychiatrist and a medical doctor. They pass/fail an ADD test and it's a lifelong prescription of ritalin for them. Why is psychiatry obsessed with "normalizing" everyone into some mindless mainstream bracket?

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:28 PM   #9
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All three here. I didn't think I had ADHD till my son was diagnosed with it. I just assumed that I was a P. Then I met more P's and realized that they aren't---"going anywhere" is the best way to put it while I'm always trying to get somewhere fast. I had a Ph.D. while they were still finishing their 8 years of undergraduate degrees.

My ADHD is mild compared to my ENTP son's, but it interferes with my work and other things requiring executive functions. In between the hours of being zoned out, I get my work done adequately. I find I work best under pressure which helps me to focus.

---------- Post added 02-05-2012 at 08:33 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by Ricardo Diaz
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Maybe. But what difference does it make? I believe it's a personality type. Would someone with ADD have a better chance of working 9-5 or becoming an entrepreneur? Which would you prefer. Of course not all 9-5 gigs are crap, the world needs doctors, engineers and scientists as much as it needs entrepreneurs, but without the entrepreneur no one's going to be paying the non-ADD types. It's a personality type. What does it matter as long as it doesn't affect the quality of brain function? I love snorting ritalin (local generic brand though) and coke when I need to focus, but the idea of forcibly drugging children 24/7 on that stuff in order to somehow zombify them in order to increase productivity is appalling. As with adults, most people are idiots. They aren't qualified to make a choice for themselves. They do not differentiate between a psychiatrist and a medical doctor. They pass/fail an ADD test and it's a lifelong prescription of ritalin for them. Why is psychiatry obsessed with "normalizing" everyone into some mindless mainstream bracket?

ADHD meds has nothing to do with normalizing people. ADHD makes it difficult for children to do what THEY want to do or function socially. The consequences of not treating ADHD can be substance abuse (they will medicate themselves), criminal behavior, sexual risks, depression, and suicide. This myth of turning children into zombies because they won't pay attention to something boring is something that continues to make the rounds of the media. It's not true. ADHD is one of the most studied disorders there is. It is not only a good idea to give these kids medication if they can't function but cruel not to.

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Old 02-05-2012, 08:40 PM   #10
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I have noticed adults with really short attention spans, I mean like a parody of adhd, can be extremely good at some things. One of those is flying. Where most of us won't notice that quiet little gauge down there in the corner does not agree with this other one unless we discipline ourselves to check, they can't help it. I think it only works if you are very high function though. If you are only glancing at things for a split second and then another and another, that is bad if you aren't also extremely fast at taking in the information that is there. These folks can be tiring to maintain a converstion with.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:41 PM   #11
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To my knowledge, ADHD does not really correlate with high IQ. There are certainly cases of it, but I doubt it is excessively common.

Anyway, I have been diagnosed with ADHD by more than one clinician, I've never found school difficult when I actually choose to pay attention, and when I've had adequate prior exposure as a needed foundation. By that I mean, stick me in a high level math class and I'm going to bomb hard because I don't have the proper knowledge set.

What absolutely terrifies me? Putting forth effort into something I have no interest in whatsoever. Such attempts don't usually end well.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:42 PM   #12
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  Originally Posted by Antares
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This applies to me too. I'm a college freshman. My behavior is very P due to my ADHD, but my mindset is hardcore J. This has led to some pathological thinking on my part because I have this innate belief that I could achieve a 4.0 if I want to, and I know it's true. I've done amazing things in the past, whenever my ADHD allowed, that I cannot replicate with any reliability. It has led to my being fixated on getting a 4.0 even though my brain is clearly out of its prime in this time of the year. I have a class where the homework is very much busywork. You do it, but you don't learn anything from it. Worse, you have to do it a certain way. Especially when instructions are vague, I take them upon myself and either not do it well, or do it very creatively that completely defies the instructions. My grades, subsequently, is horrible. Last term, I got a 3.9 (same course load, I would say even harder). This term I'd be lucky to get a 3.5.

Well-said, and precisely how I work. I like your description of having 'P' behavior, but a J mindset. Yes, we're completely unreliable as far a pulling out strokes of genius.

I do find my life is ruled by interest, more than anything else. If I'm truly interested and my mind is occupied thoroughly by something, I WILL perform well in it. If I hate something, it's a miracle if I can even force myself to do it, no matter how vital it is.

Something else I've noticed? Filling up one's life with activities, and having a hard time saying "no". I'm one of the busiest Business majors you'll find, but it's not due to the hours I spend studying. I do extracurricular, such as clubs (I'm an officer in the marketing club), an internship, senior projects, and so forth. And yet at the same time, my academic performance seems to increase the more activities I add. It's almost like I carry the "busy" feeling into other parts of my life.


  Originally Posted by TheStranger
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To my knowledge, ADHD does not really correlate with high IQ. There are certainly cases of it, but I doubt it is excessively common.

I don't think it carries any correlation at all. The thread was more about what happens with ADHD when you do have a higher IQ, and you're an INTJ to boot?

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Old 02-06-2012, 12:44 AM   #13
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No worries, you've found the forum for your what passes for peers. Also I can't believe your mother called you that in front of your teacher...
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:32 AM   #14
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  Originally Posted by QED
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*** To make long story short, for one year (after finishing school) I studied law at university (nightmarish experience, will not elaborate on details), now I'm studying philosophy.

Poor you. Sometimes the nightmare you wake-up from isn't nearly so off-putting as the one you wake-up to. Philosophy's a lovely discipline - if you have a fat trust fund.

  Originally Posted by QED
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Here comes the hard part.

In other words, INTJ + ADHD + High IQ = (your answer here).

Boredom - what's so hard about that? Amuse yourself - Forum's as good a place as any for that.

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Old 02-06-2012, 02:33 AM   #15
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Gosh, that is a pretty amazing story, QED guy. (I used to think that "QED" was a brand of tennis shoes, but the shoe store lady said, no, it's Spanish for "Don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out". I don't think she likes dogs.)

Sometimes I wish I had mental skilz, because I am the dumbest creature on the Forum. But then I saw that, like, as if IQ + ADHD + INTJ was all in the mixing bowl of your brain pan at once, it might be a bad collision or something. Which in that case, dumb is not so bad if you have plenty of snacks, you know what I mean?

So if you have a bad collision of IQ + ADHD + INTJ, all I can hope for you is that can rapidly subtract something out before it messes up your snacks. I like snacks, don't you?

Somebody before said that this bad collision could be an addressment to under-achiever. That is me in a nutshell, but that is still OK because nuts are a good snack. Some have an allergy to them, and they need a fast shot of some kind of harmoans or some such before their head swells up like a beachball.

When I add up all the INTJ +IQ + ADHD, I think if you laid it out end-to-end in a long line it could stretch all the way to the 7-11. This comes naturally to mind, since they are the snack-food Kings, by the way.

But if you have enough IQ, there is still a chance for you in my opinion. But don't take my word for it, because I don't really HAVE words: as a dog, I can't even talk. It's just these "woofing" sounds until the snacks show up.

So, bottom line: how many ADHD points do you have to have before it's a bad IQ collision, Mr. INTJ?
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:54 AM   #16
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  Originally Posted by Ricardo Diaz
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See this is why I am so contemptuous of the field of psychiatry. It's all make believe bullshit. I always had a short attention span and a high IQ.

Spoken like someone who doesn't know anything about psychiatry or psychology.

 
Why would anyone who isn't an idiot even want a long attention span? To work on boring crap?

Because it allows people to actually stick to things and accomplish something rather than flapping about like a retarded bird.

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Old 02-06-2012, 03:21 AM   #17
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Considering my day consists of rapidly cycling through this forum, 3 software projects each with parallel sub-tasks, music production, watching TV shows, messaging friends, playing scrabble, playing skyrim, rowing 10km a day, and a dozen other things -- I find it hard to believe somebody with "ADHD" has much different attention span than I do. But, you know what? All those little slices of effort, across a million different things, sum up and result in a shit fucking ton of work done every day. What's so wrong about utilizing your natural tendencies to their maximum extent instead of using it as a scapegoat for failing to accomplish what you want in life?

Complain less about how your brain prefers to operate, and instead find out how to leverage it. Don't try to be what you expect you're "supposed to be" -- be who you are, and take advantage of all it's benefits.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:46 AM   #18
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  Originally Posted by ppu6502
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Considering my day consists of rapidly cycling through this forum, 3 software projects each with parallel sub-tasks, music production, watching TV shows, messaging friends, playing scrabble, playing skyrim, rowing 10km a day, and a dozen other things -- I find it hard to believe somebody with "ADHD" has much different attention span than I do. But, you know what? All those little slices of effort, across a million different things, sum up and result in a shit fucking ton of work done every day. What's so wrong about utilizing your natural tendencies to their maximum extent instead of using it as a scapegoat for failing to accomplish what you want in life?

Complain less about how your brain prefers to operate, and instead find out how to leverage it. Don't try to be what you expect you're "supposed to be" -- be who you are, and take advantage of all it's benefits.

I applaud your post, but someone who is truly ADHD could not possibly keep track of everything that you are doing and be productive.

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Old 02-06-2012, 09:37 AM   #19
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  Originally Posted by ppu6502
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Considering my day consists of rapidly cycling through this forum, 3 software projects each with parallel sub-tasks, music production, watching TV shows, messaging friends, playing scrabble, playing skyrim, rowing 10km a day, and a dozen other things -- I find it hard to believe somebody with "ADHD" has much different attention span than I do. But, you know what? All those little slices of effort, across a million different things, sum up and result in a shit fucking ton of work done every day. What's so wrong about utilizing your natural tendencies to their maximum extent instead of using it as a scapegoat for failing to accomplish what you want in life?

Complain less about how your brain prefers to operate, and instead find out how to leverage it. Don't try to be what you expect you're "supposed to be" -- be who you are, and take advantage of all it's benefits.

I think the problem is partly that ADHD is not well named. Having a short attention span is different from the inattention that is the hallmark sign of ADHD. It should be called Inattention and Hyperactivity Disorder (IHD). Inattention can show up as being unable to know what to do in a familiar situation. For example, somebody says hi to you and you just stare at them wondering what you're supposed to say. You know what the response is but your inattention makes it impossible to recall. Needless to say, people with ADHD often have social problems. The need for stimulation is another problem. People with ADHD are at increased risk for becoming drug addicts and taking dangerous risks. Ordinary parenting techniques frequently fail with ADHD children. Often an ADHD child simply cannot do what is asked of them even if they want to because of the inattention, so they get upset and think they're worthless and stupid. Going from one stimulating task to the next is great, but it also requires focus that ADHD people do not always have. Often people with ADHD are the opposite and spend all their time doing one thing like watching TV or surfing the web and are unable to summon the focus to switch to any other activity.

Ok, high IQ often masks ADHD, while being a J masks it even more. I've heard ADHD INTJ's describe themselves as being sort of like "normal but quiet" ENTPs. I did well in school despite doing almost no studying. My J kept me from switching majors and made me crazy enough about deadlines to get things in on time usually. My IQ meant that I could do everything at the last minute and still get by. I also did ok in grad school where external forces pushed me to succeed. Things got much tougher out of grad school though where I was expected to manage myself and be proactive. INTJs are naturally proactive while ADHDs have a hard time with it, so I spent a lot of time just worrying about what I was supposed to be doing and feeling depressed about not being able to focus enough to do it. This is probably the greatest source of frustration for somebody with ADHD: wanting to do something and not being able to focus enough to do it. Somebody with ADHD and a high IQ takes full advantage of the narrow periods of focus that they have to accomplish what they can. I have these master plans for my projects that I necessarily work off and on.

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Old 02-06-2012, 10:57 AM   #20
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Performing various activities throughout the day does not mean one has a low attention span, this is not comparable to ADHD.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:15 AM   #21
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  Originally Posted by TheStranger
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Performing various activities throughout the day does not mean one has a low attention span, this is not comparable to ADHD.

I can focus for very long periods of things that are interesting to me - not so much on other topics. This is why I did poorly in school. Today, certainly, I know how to keep myself on track and read what needs to be read and just get the job done. I see it as a sign of a powerful mind which chafes under the bridle of mediocrity. And I'm not conceited in the slightest.

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:32 AM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Polymath20
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I can focus for very long periods of things that are interesting to me - not so much on other topics. This is why I did poorly in school. Today, certainly, I know how to keep myself on track and read what needs to be read and just get the job done. I see it as a sign of a powerful mind which chafes under the bridle of mediocrity. And I'm not conceited in the slightest.

Right, people with ADHD can sustain a higher level of interest in things they enjoy, in contrast to the things they don't (naturally, those that don't have ADHD can do this). ADHD comes with executive function issues. So, when someone says "I juggle many activities with exceptional skill and precision, my attention span is low" it doesn't compute. ADHD has numerous impairments, from executive functions, to emotional. When they attempt to juggle many things effortlessly, it all falls apart.

Also, some studies suggest that a high IQ does not compensate for ADHD symptoms.

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:32 AM   #23
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This book is particularly relevant to this topic:


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It suggests that ADHD children with high IQ's appear differently than ADHD children of ordinary IQ. They tend to give the appearance of working incredibly hard, for example, while accomplishing much less than a non-ADHD person with comparable IQ. This is because their ability to work efficiently (an executive function issue) is impaired.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #24
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  Originally Posted by TheStranger
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Right, people with ADHD can sustain a higher level of interest in things they enjoy, in contrast to the things they don't (naturally, those that don't have ADHD can do this). ADHD comes with executive function issues. So, when someone says "I juggle many activities with exceptional skill and precision, my attention span is low" it doesn't compute. ADHD has numerous impairments, from executive functions, to emotional. When they attempt to juggle many things effortlessly, it all falls apart.

Also, some studies suggest that a high IQ does not compensate for ADHD symptoms.

I would say I'm minor "ADHD" then - and yes I agree that IQ doesn't really help with people whose brain doesn't work quite right. I've been able to cope with whatever is wrong with my head, but I know many people less able to do so. Impulse control, and everything that can influence, seems to be the biggest setback those people face. It's not even necessarily behavioral impulses, but emotional impulses as well. Even in cases where someone severely "ADHD" misunderstands something, takes it to heart, and is terribly upset over it - even when they realize it was a mistake to begin with. It's like a house of cards. It all falls apart so easily

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Old 02-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #25
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  Originally Posted by BuShinJu
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Kwizats Haderach.

Not Kwisatz?

It just happened and you have to live with it. Seems like you are making most of it.
Typical trait of an INTJ. Making most out of it, I mean.

Keep on going.

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