[Noehelia]

I am curious to find out that if something that I have observed applies as difference between INTJ's and INFP's or J's and P's in general.

My ex-boyfriend is an INTJ (we just broke-up). When it was about to start the relationship he stated that one of his goal was that together we could exceed our limits (he is a big fan of Nietzsche). I told him that I am terrified of something like that, I want to have limits otherwise I fear I can do anything and be anything and some of these are unpleasant.
Yesterday I had a talk with a female friend of mine who is a mix of INTJ and INFJ (we are not very sure yet if she is one of those or a mix). She also told me that she wants to exceed her limits.

So I would like to see the various thoughts on this by several types.

[ScurvyRose]

I would always want to exceed my limits. One way of looking at it as say you think the most you can do is x, so you do x but find that if you just went a bit further you would not only accomplish x, but y and z. Now you have really done something, your confidence is boosted, and your self actualization as further developed.

There is always more that can be done, why would you ever say you are done becoming?

Why would you limit yourself?

[Elfrun]

I try to set goals at an almost unachievable level
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Doesn't mean I'm always successful in exceeding my perceived limits but I try.





Trinity added to this post, 2 minutes and 9 seconds later...

btw I don't think the theory sticks with SJ types.

[Noehelia]

Maybe I have not used the right words. The translation from Greek to English is "exceed your limits" but we also mean expand your boundaries, overcome yourself. It is not limited only to things you can accomplish but what kind of person you are.

The problem with me is that I need limits, otherwise I am lost of the endless and infinite possibilities and choices that I have. I am afraid of myself, of what I can do if I haven't set something concrete in order to control me.

For example, in the start of the relationship with my ex-boyfriend he did something that was out of himself, something that otherwise he would consider it crazy. Although he felt awkward he also liked it because he did exceed his boundaries. But for me it is different. I know that I can do the most crazy things and I need limits in order not to do them.

[ssrprotege]

I like exceeding my limits. If you just do something you can do repeatedly, it's boring; changes are necessary, and meaningful changes can come if you try to exceed your limits. By exceeding the limits, you will be able to think of possibilities you could never have possibly imagined - as Q said in "All Good Things..." in Star Trek TNG. Exceeding the limits is important, and acknowledging the existence of limits is as paramount as the former.





ssrprotege added to this post, 1 minutes and 57 seconds later...

	Originally Posted by Trinity To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By the way, I don't think the theory sticks with SJ types.

lol. "S" = doesn't appreciate speculative theories. Of course, not to say every Sensor is like that; we see a handful of open-minded SJ's in INTJf who know how to appreciate theories.
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[Elfrun]

Originally Posted by Noehelia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe I have not used the right words. The translation from Greek to English is "exceed your limits" but we also mean expand your boundaries, overcome yourself. It is not limited only to things you can accomplish but what kind of person you are. The problem with me is that I need limits, otherwise I am lost of the endless and infinite possibilities and choices that I have. I am afraid of myself, of what I can do if I haven't set something concrete in order to control me. For example, in the start of the relationship with my ex-boyfriend he did something that was out of himself, something that otherwise he would otherwise consider it crazy. Although he felt awkward he also liked it because he did exceed his boundaries. But for me it is different. I know that I can do the most crazy things and I need limits in order not to do them.

Your OP made sence to me, my answer was not about physical things only. Many of my goals are focused on self accomplishment. I wouldn't be surprised if some people of all NT types are comfortable with this not just Js.

[RabbitEars]

There's no limits.
Or rather, things we consider our limits, are very often false.
I don't think it's a bad thing, though sometimes it's scary. We are but small persons in the limitless universe, and I feel at home with that.
I am me, though, and I don't consider it a limit. A starting point, maybe. Noehelia, you don't have to set limits for yourself, if you have your guiding moral rules. That way, anything changes, the core stays the same.

[Jughead]

	Originally Posted by The Dark Knight
	Alfred Pennyworth: Know your limits, Master Wayne. Bruce Wayne: Batman has no limits. Alfred Pennyworth: But you do, sir. Bruce Wayne: Well, can't afford to know them.

QFT.

[SShack]

Originally Posted by Noehelia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe I have not used the right words. The translation from Greek to English is "exceed your limits" but we also mean expand your boundaries, overcome yourself. It is not limited only to things you can accomplish but what kind of person you are. The problem with me is that I need limits, otherwise I am lost of the endless and infinite possibilities and choices that I have. I am afraid of myself, of what I can do if I haven't set something concrete in order to control me. For example, in the start of the relationship with my ex-boyfriend he did something that was out of himself, something that otherwise he would consider it crazy. Although he felt awkward he also liked it because he did exceed his boundaries. But for me it is different. I know that I can do the most crazy things and I need limits in order not to do them.

I think for a lot of NxP types (myself included) the inferior Sensing function, when developed, serves as a braking mechanism to keep us from going off in a million directions at once.

For me, I don't just randomly decide to break a boundary, though I might think about it in my head to visualize the consequences. I think you do need to bring your judging function into play to do this and make a conscious decision to expand one particular boundary and see what it feels like for you.

You and I have in common Si, introverted sensing, so we look at prior experiences and history and customs (this is what I mean by braking mechanism). INTJs emphasize Se, extroverted sensing, which serves the opposite purpose. It encourages INTJs to take action in the real world, where otherwise they'd all be hermits
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. I suspect that's where the INTJ tendency to take the lead in a crisis comes from, as well as your ex's inclination to expand boundaries.

[Linwenilid]

Originally Posted by Noehelia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am curious to find out that if something that I have observed applies as difference between INTJ's and INFP's or J's and P's in general. My ex-boyfriend is an INTJ (we just broke-up). When it was about to start the relationship he stated that one of his goal was that together we could exceed our limits (he is a big fan of Nietzsche). I told him that I am terrified of something like that, I want to have limits otherwise I fear I can do anything and be anything and some of these are unpleasant. Yesterday I had a talk with a female friend of mine who is a mix of INTJ and INFJ (we are not very sure yet if she is one of those or a mix). She also told me that she wants to exceed her limits. So I would like to see the various thoughts on this by several types.

I'm gonna venture a guess here: when you think of 'limits', you might see them in the context of morality and emotions because of your F, so there's possible you see two directions in which this can go: right and wrong. Right is fine, but you already do the 'right' things - care for people's feelings, etc., so you're probably looking at the wrong side of your feelings, and it's a scary thing for you. As for your ex (and all Ts), he's thinking of intellectual boundaries because that's what is more important to him, and for INTJs, developing our intellect comes naturally; there's no right and wrong, only knowledge and ignorance, and ignorance is not a possibility. So, pushing boundaries = good for T types.

Does that make any sense?

As for my answer, yes, I'd love to go as far as I can just for the sake of knowing what I'm capable of (if only I had enough motivation).

[blckprljinju]

Originally Posted by Noehelia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe I have not used the right words. The translation from Greek to English is "exceed your limits" but we also mean expand your boundaries, overcome yourself. It is not limited only to things you can accomplish but what kind of person you are. The problem with me is that I need limits, otherwise I am lost of the endless and infinite possibilities and choices that I have. I am afraid of myself, of what I can do if I haven't set something concrete in order to control me. For example, in the start of the relationship with my ex-boyfriend he did something that was out of himself, something that otherwise he would consider it crazy. Although he felt awkward he also liked it because he did exceed his boundaries. But for me it is different. I know that I can do the most crazy things and I need limits in order not to do them.

you do need limits, only so that you can do even better.
for me, a limit "type" of sorts is necessary as a form of a "marker" sort of, and you need it to show yourself that this is how far you have gotten, and this is how far more you can do. i hate boundaries, limits, anything that closes up on you because it makes me feel claustrophobic about it.

[Synamon]

I test my own limits and actively push my own boundaries. I am open minded enough to try new things. Part of learning about myself is finding out which of my boundaries are solid and which ones I can push.

I think that doing this kind of boundary pushing can only happen if you don't care what others think about your choices and if you can view external rules as flexible not rigid. I'm not sure Sensors can manage that.

There is an element of risk as well, to push boundaries you have to get outside your comfort zone. It is trial and error so you have to be willing to fail, learn from the failure, find a new approach and try again. That description sounds very much like a TJ trait.

[NephilimAzrael]

I would always prefer to keep track of my limits and continually test them (with ethical consideration). Once I exceed a limit I test how much further I can try them.
I assume you have considered your limits in regard to this topic?

[phantasma]

I don't really want to exceed any limits until I find out what the limits actually are. It's best to know the rules and status-quos before you break them. But I certainly do want to escape from mediocrity.

However, I do draw a line somewhere. I don't want to play God. I won't kill people, raise them from the dead, etc. I'll let others have their freedom too.

[rowboat]

I've been thinking about this idea lately too. I want to exceed my limits without a doubt. This is something I posted on some other forum...

	Originally Posted by rowboat
	I don't like what I am. I do not have enough processing power to understand the universe the way I would like to. I want to transcend my own mind.

[Noehelia]

Originally Posted by Linwenilid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm gonna venture a guess here: when you think of 'limits', you might see them in the context of morality and emotions because of your F, so there's possible you see two directions in which this can go: right and wrong. Right is fine, but you already do the 'right' things - care for people's feelings, etc., so you're probably looking at the wrong side of your feelings, and it's a scary thing for you. As for your ex (and all Ts), he's thinking of intellectual boundaries because that's what is more important to him, and for INTJs, developing our intellect comes naturally; there's no right and wrong, only knowledge and ignorance, and ignorance is not a possibility. So, pushing boundaries = good for T types. Does that make any sense? As for my answer, yes, I'd love to go as far as I can just for the sake of knowing what I'm capable of (if only I had enough motivation).

I see it as Rabitears pointed, there are no limits. The ones that I see as limits are the ones that I have set, so obviously they serve a purpose. Intellectually I do not see the pursuit of being better as exceeding some limits, I see it as the conscious choice of paths.
My ex-boyfriend also was not talking only for intellectual limits that's why I pointed that he is a big fan of Nietzsche.

[Tabemashoo]

I live to push myself past myself, if that makes sense.
My deeply ingrained morals are what keep me grounded.

[Dragontongue]

Yes, that makes sense. I always try to do better at whatever I'm doing than I did the last time.

[zarathustra]

Originally Posted by Linwenilid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm gonna venture a guess here: when you think of 'limits', you might see them in the context of morality and emotions because of your F, so there's possible you see two directions in which this can go: right and wrong. Right is fine, but you already do the 'right' things - care for people's feelings, etc., so you're probably looking at the wrong side of your feelings, and it's a scary thing for you. As for your ex (and all Ts), he's thinking of intellectual boundaries because that's what is more important to him, and for INTJs, developing our intellect comes naturally; there's no right and wrong, only knowledge and ignorance, and ignorance is not a possibility. So, pushing boundaries = good for T types. Does that make any sense? As for my answer, yes, I'd love to go as far as I can just for the sake of knowing what I'm capable of (if only I had enough motivation).

I would say this is a good initial approach towards the matter. I can support the existence of boundaries, the necessity of realizing and the necessity of overcoming them through Kazantzakis and Nietzsche. It is not complicated to perceive boundaries within humans. One has to climb on his own head in order to go upwards.

You can push your limits in many ways, for example I feel there are lots of people who do not accept society as it is, they do not accept the rules, the behavior, the whole structure and hypocrisy. This is a part of Nietzsche's approach as well, especially in the camel and lion transformation stages.

I have often found myself in a desperate need to ignore every adopted social norm. To question any accepted social behavior, to dispute accustomed human interaction, thus enable myself to function in a different level which is effectively almost free from social standards.

There is a similar process to that for most of the limits one would attempt to break sometime. At first you realize the existence and the consequences of the boundaries, then you decide whether you can manage the result of the exceeding limits (risky often - I suppose easier for INTJ's ), then you take the next step of crossing the boundary and enjoy that you're taking yourself one step further, and finally you need to deal with the consequences.

The thing is, that the further you deviate yourself from standard social behavior, from what most of the people consider normal, the lonelier you become, and the lonelier you become the closer you get to yourself. But this point is dangerous - when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss will gaze back at you - when you force yourself to extremes you are walking on a tight rope, one moment of hesitation, a wrong move and you fall down.

The whole process is dangerous if you are not ready. And what is even worse, is that once you realize certain things about you - there is no going back.

Ignorance is bliss, for those who can afford it.

[seoa]

	Originally Posted by Noehelia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem with me is that I need limits, otherwise I am lost of the endless and infinite possibilities and choices that I have. I am afraid of myself, of what I can do if I haven't set something concrete in order to control me. I know that I can do the most crazy things and I need limits in order not to do them.

yes, i know what you mean... i positively want external boundaries placed on me, not to limit me, but to give me something to push against...

i too am scared of what i could be, what i might do, if there are no restrictions....

and i don't work very well with internally imposed restrictions - i either ignore them (i know there's no penalty), or limit myself too far (in fear)...

i'm not very familiar with the cognitive functions, but i notice we share both Ne & Fi.... maybe it's the idealism inherent in the Ne (extroverted intuition)... i can "imagine" doing so many things, not all of them helpful (as defined by my Fi)... i want to be the ideas person, with input on which are good and which are way-crazy.... i'm better at performing that rational assessment myself than when i was younger, but it's still incredibly unnatural & i'm kinda heavy-handed with it....

basically, i want someone else whose skill is rational & logical assessment of maybe-useful, maybe-crazy ideas, to use that skill for my benefit....

would have to be someone i trust (re: ethics etc)... who understands me (to know which of my ideas makes sense in my life, as opposed to theirs)... and who would provide the feedback on the idea itself, without feeling the need to criticise my personality for coming up with the insanity....

still not found that person... but i resent being responsible for myself in this way....
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[Seppuku Savant]

Yes. There's always room for improvement. The day I stop pushing past my boundaries is the day I die.

[enWTFp]

I see no point being alive otherwise.

There are no limits, anyway. Except in our heads.

But I don't want to be a slave of myself, I want to be a master of myself.