[IotaNull]

I think, considering how common monogamy is, that it's best to assume it unless otherwise stated. If you're willing to risk getting hut down, though, I don't see any harm unless you're actively trying to break up an existing monogamous relationship.

[Purgatid]

A relationship is a social contract, pursuing someone who is in a relationship is the same as trying to make them break their contract. So, in other words - if you think it's okay to try and make people break promises, try to convince others to be illojal or lie, then it's within your moral understanding to pursue someone who's in a relationship as well. If you disagree with trying to create dishonesty or disloyalty in others, then you also should disagree to pursuing people who are in relationships.

It all comes down to the value you assign typical virtues.

[deconspire]

	Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I love how you folks (mostly all) assume I'm a man eyeballing a woman.

I didn't, but it does sound like something a numbshit guy would ask...

	Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Would anyone change their advice with any of these scenario modifications? A) The person is in a long-distance relationship. B) The person is in a relationship, but it's not exclusive, serious, or committed. C) The person is in an exclusive and serious but not committed relationship.

A) A relationship is a relationship regardless of distance. As a matter of fact, a long-term relationship probably takes even more commitment. So this would make you even more of a douche because you're preying on your proximity to that person. -Advice still holds

B) I certainly wouldn't have a problem telling the person I like them in this situation. But I still wouldn't aggressively pursue unless I knew my feelings were reciprocated and said person was just waiting for me to express those feelings. -Advice changes

C) That sounds like a red-flag...pass. -Advice still holds (for your own damn good, too)

[davai]

	Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it ever okay to pursue someone who's already in a relationship?

Your choice. Think about the consequences. Try to understand whether your brain that makes decisions is currently in your head/heart or in your genitalia.

[Distance]

A) The person is in a long-distance relationship.

No change.

B) The person is in a relationship, but it's not exclusive, serious, or committed.

C) The person is in an exclusive and serious but not committed relationship.

Amendment to my initial advice to others from "It's up to you and your internal moral landscape." to "If you're comfortable handling an open relationship, then it's up to you".

As far as myself, no thanks since my preference resides within monogamous relationships. This doesn't make either a polyamorist or myself, terrible people. We just have differing views and preferences on what a relationship should entail. AKA "not compatible".

[DrCiao]

Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A) The person is in a long-distance relationship. No change. B) The person is in a relationship, but it's not exclusive, serious, or committed. C) The person is in an exclusive and serious but not committed relationship. Amendment to my initial advice to others from "It's up to you and your internal moral landscape." to "If you're comfortable handling an open relationship, then it's up to you". As far as myself, no thanks since my preference resides within monogamous relationships. This doesn't make either a polyamorist or myself, terrible people. We just have differing views and preferences on what a relationship should entail. AKA "not compatible".

I would say the same.

So, I assume you've been in a long distance relationship hence from your reply?

[Weltschmerzer]

Originally Posted by Purgatid To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A relationship is a social contract, pursuing someone who is in a relationship is the same as trying to make them break their contract. So, in other words - if you think it's okay to try and make people break promises, try to convince others to be illojal or lie, then it's within your moral understanding to pursue someone who's in a relationship as well. If you disagree with trying to create dishonesty or disloyalty in others, then you also should disagree to pursuing people who are in relationships. It all comes down to the value you assign typical virtues.

What if you're not asking them to cheat on a partner, but to break-up with a partner? If one gives advice for someone to end a relationship, is that always promoting the disintegration of social contracts? If it's not always doing that, shouldn't it be okay to pursue a person with a partner, provided you're trying to convince him/her to make a break first?

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by DrCiao To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, I assume you've been in a long distance relationship hence from your reply?

Eh? What has this got to do with the price of potatoes in Russia?

The following is my initial post advice. My next post reinforced the same advice for long distance relationships.

It's up to you and your internal moral landscape. I'll pass. Not only does inferior Fi have a bird over this, so does Te-Ni since this person lacks the moral fortitude to stop from branch swinging to you while with someone else which also indicates that they have the ability to branch swing away from you if your relationship hits a rough spot. And while I'm not a big believer in forever after, cheating exceeds my relationship boundaries due to its destructive nature.

[WillBrazil]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As far as myself, no thanks since my preference resides within monogamous relationships.

I totally agree. I have nothing against orgy, swing... As long as the couple agrees, no problem. But cheating is totally different... I'd never do that and I hope to never be cheated. The relationship would end at the exact time I discovered that happened.

And even if the partner never comes to know, there's no difference for me. I'd know I was wrong.

Hahaha... I'm feeling like Bernadette, from Big Bang Theory... There was one episode where she said, almost crying: "I'm a catholic girl..." and left the room (I think they were talking about lies).

If you are in a relationship and you want to have sex with someone else, I think you should break up first (or try a threesome...).

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by Chiaroscuro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is it ever okay to pursue someone who's already in a relationship? If so, what's within or off limits?

I think it's perfectly fine to show a genuine interest in them but not to aggressively pursue which I think would be disrespectful. It really depends on her reaction, does she display a mutual interest in you? I was in this situation. I met this girl at a concert and we were dancing together and had a great time. But I didn't get her name or number at the end of the night and was pretty bummed because I figured there was a slim chance I'd ever see her again. Then by some crazy happenstance this girl knows my neighbors and shows up at a party at their place the very next night and it is initially awkward because we were not expecting to see each other but then we started talking and I got her number at the end of the night.

As it happens she knew my neighbors because her current boyfriend was one of their best friends from back home. She was in a long distance relationship at the time. Though I still liked hanging out with her and she was just as interested in getting to know me. The thing is that this happened to be a very attractive girl but no guys would really talk to her because they knew she had a boyfriend and she's not the type of girl to be unfaithful. But I genuinely enjoyed hanging out with this girl and every time we'd be at a party together we'd end up talking the entire time.

So over Christmas break she broke up with her boyfriend and we're probably going to start going steady. I don't see how either of us did anything wrong. Nothing sexual happened between us but just because a girl has a boyfriend doesn't mean that's the best guy for her or that she's bound to this guy forever. Marriage is different because it signifies that you have chosen to be with that person forever, but a girl should be free to exit a relationship if someone better comes along or she's not getting what she wants out of it. I see nothing wrong with a guy or girl showing interest in someone in a relationship, as long as you're not aggressively pursuing them. And if you're a good boyfriend then you shouldn't have to worry about your girlfriend being interested in other guys; you should be giving her what she needs from a relationship, clearly this guy wasn't. But that's also why I don't think long-distance relationships can work in general.

[Ghostwheel]

	Originally Posted by Disillusioned To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think it's perfectly fine to show a genuine interest in them but not to aggressively pursue which I think would be disrespectful.... I see nothing wrong with a guy or girl showing interest in someone in a relationship, as long as you're not aggressively pursuing them....

I think you had the right idea in this instance.

When she broke up with her boyfriend, she immediately thought of you and something came of it. But at no point before that did you run your paws over her or cajole her to dump him.

There's a fine line here but I think you walked it rather well.

Hope the relationship works out.

[Findley]

	Originally Posted by Wongette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No. Even if the other person responds positively, breaks up with the other person, and comes to you, how would you ever trust them? You will always know that they deceived their ex, and therefore have no qualms about doing to you in the future. Think about being in a relationship where you cannot trust the other person.

This thought would linger in the back of your mind if the other person jumped ship and entered into a relationship with you. It would underline everything. No matter how you framed your role in that person's exit, you saw how they handled it and how they took the other person for granted. This is "the monkey doesn't let go of one branch until grasping for another" approach to dating that some people have. I would avoid the entire scenario.

[Terennnash]

It depends.

is it genuine attraction seeking a sexual level of involvement and emotional attachment.

or

is it used as a defense mechanism to pursue unattainable women while sparing the ego from whatever has caused a pathological fear of women/intimacy.

[Tentaki]

It's not a good idea. Solely for this reason: What comes around goes around.

If the person you're pursuing is willing to drop their relationship or date you while still in that other relationship, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing to you if some other guy/girl comes around down the road?

[zibber]

I'm not sure whether pursuit is a good idea in the first place.

And the whole spiel about polyamory, and the mayor's on my ass, and blah blah blah.

[ZerroDefex]

If there ain't a ring on her finger then she's still fair game, just be wary of how insecure the boyfriend is. If he's so willing to fight you just for flirting with his girl then it means that he's got a reason to be afraid of losing her so easily.

Anyhow, there's nothing wrong with planting the seed as early as possible. Too many of my guy friends just don't seem to get that if you wait until the girl is single then it's probably too late, women tend to already have the next guy in mind before they break up with their previous man. There's a reason for existence of the term "branch-swinging".

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by Wongette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No. Even if the other person responds positively, breaks up with the other person, and comes to you, how would you ever trust them? You will always know that they deceived their ex, and therefore have no qualms about doing to you in the future. Think about being in a relationship where you cannot trust the other person.

Originally Posted by Findley To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This thought would linger in the back of your mind if the other person jumped ship and entered into a relationship with you. It would underline everything. No matter how you framed your role in that person's exit, you saw how they handled it and how they took the other person for granted. This is "the monkey doesn't let go of one branch until grasping for another" approach to dating that some people have. I would avoid the entire scenario.

	Originally Posted by Tentaki To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's not a good idea. Solely for this reason: What comes around goes around. If the person you're pursuing is willing to drop their relationship or date you while still in that other relationship, what's to prevent them from doing the same thing to you if some other guy/girl comes around down the road?

I think you guys are all missing the point. If the person breaks up with you before getting intimately involved with the other person then that's exactly what they're supposed to do. How is that deceiving their ex? They didn't cheat on them, they weren't unfaithful. I don't see what the problem is. You don't own that person just because you're dating them. If they don't want to date you anymore then that's their choice, I don't see why it matters what their reason is; it's their life. Like I said, they're not breaking any commitment to you if they break up with you before they get intimately involved with the other person. That's called being responsible and faithful (i.e. they were unwilling to get intimately involved with someone else while they were dating you).

The one's you want to watch out for are the one's who actually are willing to cheat on and deceive the person they are with. I really don't see where all this unwarranted criticism is coming from of people who break up with their boyfriend or girlfriend to be with someone else. And what in your opinion is someone supposed to do if they stop liking their boyfriend/girlfriend and start liking someone else? I'm curious. A relationship should be based on a mutual interest in one another, if the other person is no longer interested in you then you have no right to expect them to stay in the relationship. As I've already said, you don't own them. They are free, and hopefully capable of making their own decisions with their life. And what's to stop them from doing the same thing to the next person down the road? Umm, maybe being a good boyfriend and someone they actually like. Idk, that would probably do the trick. And hey, maybe they will break up with you down the road and date someone else, or you'll break up with them. That's why they are you're boyfriend/girlfriend and not your spouse/partner. You all seem very insecure to me.

[Findley]

As someone who has been broken up WITH for someone else and as someone who has had another person end a relationship FOR me, I've seen both ends of this scenario. I don't feel very insecure. The love triangle dynamic is very old. If you play the percentages, you may actually come out unscathed.

However, with that being said, I will never attempt the scenario again. The emotions become too tangled and Ive outgrown it. But to each their own.

[iWonder]

I think the Golden Rule applies here:
"Do onto others as you would have them do unto you."

I personally would never do it, but I've had it done to me and it's not pleasant especially if you cared for that person. Just remember what comes around goes around..

[Disillusioned]

	Originally Posted by Ghostwheel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When she broke up with her boyfriend, she immediately thought of you and something came of it. But at no point before that did you run your paws over her or cajole her to dump him.

Exactly. I never even talked about him or pressured her to break up with him; I just hung out with her. She didn't really mention him around me much either but mainly just because it didn't really pertain to anything we were talking about. She wasn't trying to hide the fact that she had a boyfriend. He even came down one time to visit her and go to a football game and I saw her at the tailgate and introduced myself to the guy, then I went off and hung out with my other friends and let them enjoy the game together.

If anything it was her sister and best friend who were the ones pressuring her to break up with her boyfriend. It was pretty damn obvious the two of us were attracted to each other. We were all hanging out in a room with like six people at this party before break and her best friend goes "You really need to break up with your boyfriend, those texts he's been sending you lately are just weird" right in earshot of me. Then I get a ride home with her and her sister for Christmas break since they live about an hour away from me in southern California and we go to school in Arizona. So I burn some cd's for the 6 hr car ride, just some dubstep and dance music I like; I burned similar cd's for the ride back with my neighbors for thanksgiving too (I don't have a car out here so I have to hitch rides). It just so happened her sister is obsessed with dubstep (which I wasn't really expecting) and they both love my music. Then I let them keep the cd's over break and she said her and her sister were like fighting over who got them.

The point is I get along with her sister and best friend, which doesn't hurt, and listening to the cd's I burned all Christmas break probably meant she was thinking about me most of break (honestly wasn't even the reason I made the cd's. That was just an afterthought) but even if I may have been a major reason for her breaking up with her boyfriend, I highly doubt I was the sole reason. She just found the long distance relationship thing to be too hard, and having to drive 6 hrs each way by herself just to see him one weekend a month probably wasn't too enjoyable either.

[Traverser]

	Originally Posted by Wongette To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No. Even if the other person responds positively, breaks up with the other person, and comes to you, how would you ever trust them? You will always know that they deceived their ex, and therefore have no qualms about doing to you in the future. Think about being in a relationship where you cannot trust the other person.

Care to explain how you know deception was involved?

[AnnaMolly]

Morals aside, I think it's simply not clever at all.

If a person leaves a healthy relationship for you ... it shows that they're fickle, unstable, and don't care about hurting someone who cares for them. And they're very likely to do the same thing with you once someone "even better" comes along.

If a person leaves an unhealthy relationship for you ... why didn't they leave earlier, if things were unhealthy? This shows a tendency for not being able to be alone, co-dependent, clingy behaviour. Or simply being "too proud to be single", staying in the relationship just for the sex, money or other profits, etc. ... as you see, you probably wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone like that, either.

So, don't do it.


----

Morals not aside: treat others the way you'd like to be treated, have personal integrity etc.³ ...

--> Don't do it.

[IotaNull]

I disagree in one respect, AM -- you can't know how long the relationship has been abusive for, and it's not always that easy to leave an abusive partner.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by Iota Null To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I disagree in one respect, AM -- you can't know how long the relationship has been abusive for, and it's not always that easy to leave an abusive partner.

I was actually wondering whether I should include that "exception" in my post
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, in that case it's possible it wouldn't be ammoral or short-sighted.

However, even in this case, I'd advise to not immediately jump right into the next relationship. Get out of the abusive one, spend some time on your own to "find yourself" again, and then begin something new.

[Purgatid]

	Originally Posted by Weltschmerzer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What if you're not asking them to cheat on a partner, but to break-up with a partner? If one gives advice for someone to end a relationship, is that always promoting the disintegration of social contracts? If it's not always doing that, shouldn't it be okay to pursue a person with a partner, provided you're trying to convince him/her to make a break first?

I would say it depends on the intent. If the intent is to break it up because the relationship is abusive to the one you're trying to convince, then yes. It is right to try and break it up before you involve yourself romantically. But otherwise no, it is not. Intent is everything, and breaking a social contract for no other reason than for your own pleasure is not acceptable. Granted, the one being subject to the convincing should of course also put an end to the attempts. But that one person has a responsibility, does not necessarily remove reponsibility for others. Now, if you truly believe to be able to make that someone more happy than they currently are with the social contract they have, then I would say sure. Go for it. But as stated, not for pleasure alone.