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NT women could you be a happy housewife? None
Old 01-04-2012, 05:37 AM   #1
Zhen
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I was thinking about this recently...when I was younger I definitely had something far more akin to a teenage male ego and the thought was always utterly horrific and even insulting to my ego. In more recent times when I actually have a house and appreciate the labours involved and the standard of house I want to live in(and the time and energy consuming upkeep it takes) my thoughts are not of such extreme aversion...

I'm not sure if I would prefer a fulltime househusband type either just because I don't trust that most men have as high standards of housekeeping...and maybe I'm still *a bit* old fashioned biased in terms of gender roles...

I wouldn't want a hired housekeeper in my things either while I was at work...so I prefer to do it myself...but that doesn't leave a whole lot of spare time!

I think as an NT female I would still always need to keep some kind of vocation/mental stimulation - I'm not sure if I could be a full time homemaker...Not to mention I don't care for perfection in this context either...

Other NT women thoughts?
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:45 AM   #2
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I think I would get really depressed. I need more structure than that, and interactions with the outside world. I am happiest when I am doing just a tiny bit too much.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:06 AM   #3
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I think I'd love it. I work from home so I'm at home all day anyway. I already do all the grocery shopping and cooking, and most of the laundry. I'm constantly wishing I didn't have to spend time working so I could spend more time on the other stuff, and on my hobbies. The only problem is that if the cleaning was all my responsibility, the house probably wouldn't meet my boyfriend's standards. I don't really notice dirt so tend to only clean if there are guests coming and overlook a lot of things when I do.

I'll skip on the kids part of traditional housewifery though.

It's not because of our genders that I want to split the duties like that (he makes the money and I look after the house); it's because I'm I, he's E, and he has a career he cares about whereas I'm only in it for the money. When I was younger I always insisted I didn't want to be a housewife because it was too female for the way I saw myself, but as I get older, I realise that I enjoy doing mindless work that allows my mind to wander.
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:22 AM   #4
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  Originally Posted by topquark
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I think I'd love it. I work from home so I'm at home all day anyway. I already do all the grocery shopping and cooking, and most of the laundry. I'm constantly wishing I didn't have to spend time working so I could spend more time on the other stuff, and on my hobbies. The only problem is that if the cleaning was all my responsibility, the house probably wouldn't meet my boyfriend's standards. I don't really notice dirt so tend to only clean if there are guests coming and overlook a lot of things when I do.

I'll skip on the kids part of traditional housewifery though.

It's not because of our genders that I want to split the duties like that (he makes the money and I look after the house); it's because I'm I, he's E, and he has a career he cares about whereas I'm only in it for the money. When I was younger I always insisted I didn't want to be a housewife because it was too female for the way I saw myself, but as I get older, I realise that I enjoy doing mindless work that allows my mind to wander.

agree as you get older you just have less stamina for excessive intellectualism...and thinking!
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I think mindless chores are actually a therapeutic and healthy balance for the average hyperactive INTJ mind...

---------- Post added 01-04-2012 at 10:23 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by Nepenthe
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I think I would get really depressed. I need more structure than that, and interactions with the outside world. I am happiest when I am doing just a tiny bit too much.

i naturally gravitate to this...so chores are a good motivation to MAKE MYSELF stay home (and get much needed rest/isolation from the world...)

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Old 01-04-2012, 06:51 AM   #5
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Probably not.

I perhaps could if I had a job that permitted me to stay at home and still left me a lot of times on my hands. Right now it's very possible that I'm going to get such a job (I'll perhaps start translating novels, which I can do on my own computer at home). Now if I was living with someone I could understand how that person could expect me to do more chores than him, since I'd be "staying at home all day". However, if my job takes me as many hours per week as my partner's job takes him, I wouldn't agree.

As for staying at home raising children and not having any kind of job or, say, artistic activity to which I could devote enough time... I would go crazy I think. Not that I despise people (women or men) who do this. I just don't think I have what it takes. For instance I don't have an absolute certitude that turning my kids into great adults could be "the meaning of my life". It'd certainly be one of my goals (if I ever have kids) but I'd need to do something on my own, not just care about what they do and what they become.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:07 AM   #6
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I could work from home (and I often do) but I could not be a true housewife without an independent job. When my daughter was born, I stayed home with her for 11 months. I was losing my flippin mind, and 9 of those months I was still taking classes to finish my BA. When you find yourself cutting up magazines and family photos to create laminated flash cards for your baby, it's time to reexamine your life choices.

I am not wired to have my life revolve solely around housework and raising children. Never was.
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Old 01-04-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
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I have a home based business and I'm home with my kids. I guess because I make my own money, technically i'm not a house wife and my house is only clean when the cleaning lady cleans it because cleaning to me seems like a complete waste of my time.

My life does not now, nor had it ever "revolved" around my kids. I do appreciate being home more so that I can steer them towards a deeper insight and understanding about the world and to make sure they have the kind of childhood that I was deprived of.

I have my own life and my own interests outside of my kids and I do not live to serve them. They make their own breakfast and pack their own school lunch (other than dinner which we have together as a family) and they are responsible for their own homework and their own chores.

This arrangement works for me. I gave up a very stressful, high paying career (temporarily) to do this and I do not regret it at all. As a matter of fact I feel lucky for the opportunity. As a young adult my life today would have seemed anti-feminist to me, but now that i'm older, I see it from a broader perspective. I realize that this arrangement works just right to meet my needs and my family's. I see full time working moms and it's obvious that they feel a lot of stress and guilt about having to meet two completely different and competing sets of priorities at the same time.
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:08 AM   #8
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As an INTJ male who has worked full time for 27 years, now, I'd take being a house husband in a heartbeat. Imagine the possibilities! Keeping a house clean requires maybe a day of real cleaning, and a couple of hours a morning to keep things up.

Then it's off to wherever my mind wants to take me. University classes. Library to research gravity or whatever... Organize a book club or some kind of interest group, maybe online. Play a few video games. The possibilities are ENDLESS.

And all funded by my spouse? Heaven!
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Old 01-04-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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  Originally Posted by Dancingqueen
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I have a home based business and I'm home with my kids. I guess because I make my own money, technically i'm not a house wife and my house is only clean when the cleaning lady cleans it because cleaning to me seems like a complete waste of my time.

My life does not now, nor had it ever "revolved" around my kids. I do appreciate being home more so that I can steer them towards a deeper insight and understanding about the world and to make sure they have the kind of childhood that I was deprived of.

I have my own life and my own interests outside of my kids and I do not live to serve them. They make their own breakfast and pack their own school lunch (other than dinner which we have together as a family) and they are responsible for their own homework and their own chores.

This arrangement works for me. I gave up a very stressful, high paying career (temporarily) to do this and I do not regret it at all. As a matter of fact I feel lucky for the opportunity. As a young adult my life today would have seemed anti-feminist to me, but now that i'm older, I see it from a broader perspective. I realize that this arrangement works just right to meet my needs and my family's. I see full time working moms and it's obvious that they feel a lot of stress and guilt about having to meet two completely different and competing sets of priorities at the same time.

I fail to see how being a stay at home parent is "anti feminist" in any way shape or form.

Feminism is about social equality for women. How does being a stay at home parent translate into being against social equality for women? This is like saying "If you eat pizza, you are anti-apple." ...It makes no sense.

A word about working mom guilt: Guilt is a result of doing something which you know to be wrong. Providing for your family financially via gainful employment is not wrong. I know many working moms - because I actually work outside the home - NONE of them feel guilty. Neither do the working fathers. I believe that this working mommy guilt is an Internet chat based fallacy.

---------- Post added 01-04-2012 at 06:29 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by themuzicman
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As an INTJ male who has worked full time for 27 years, now, I'd take being a house husband in a heartbeat. Imagine the possibilities! Keeping a house clean requires maybe a day of real cleaning, and a couple of hours a morning to keep things up.

Many spouses / parents who stay at home would tell you that you perception of how easy they have it is offensive and wrong. I am surprised that no one here has called you on this.

Reality: Many families with a stay at home spouse / person create more of a mess because they know that it will magically disappear.

 
Then it's off to wherever my mind wants to take me. University classes. Library to research gravity or whatever... Organize a book club or some kind of interest group, maybe online. Play a few video games. The possibilities are ENDLESS.

And all funded by my spouse? Heaven

The reality is - with one income, certain pursuits are greatly curtailed.

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Old 01-04-2012, 11:29 AM   #10
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[QUOTE=LadySpock;2244968]I fail to see how being a stay at home parent is "anti feminist" in any way shape or form.

I didn't say it was anti-feminist, I merely implied that as a teenager it SEEMED anti feminist. I would have considered being a housewife as giving in to convention and expected societal roles. It would have struck me as a slap in the face to the women who had worked so hard and sacrificed to gain us the freedoms of education and a career. I would have felt that I had betrayed them by not striving for all possibilities that the feminist movement had allowed me to strive for as a woman.

As an adult, I see things much more clearly and from a few different perspectives. All things are possible but rarely at the same time. Priorities must be chosen their consequences lived with. I cannot do two things half assed and fail at both of them or succeed at the less important one at the expense of the one that is vital to me. Feminism has given me the ability to choose but not freedom from other peoples judgements about how I choose to live my life. I am judged by the stay at home mommies for not dedicating my life and soul to my children and by the full working mommies for not prioritizing my career.



A word about working mom guilt: Guilt is a result of doing something which you know to be wrong. Providing for your family financially via gainful employment is not wrong. I know many working moms - because I actually work outside the home - NONE of them feel guilty. Neither do the working fathers. I believe that this working mommy guilt is an Internet chat based fallacy.

I am a sample size of N=1 therefore take my experience as anecdotal. The moms that I know that work in my chosen profession feel pulled in opposite directions simultaneously. I used to be one myself. It pained me when my three month old baby would cry and I would have to leave him to do so while I locked myself in the bathroom so I could wrap up my phone conversation with a client. It would have been considered unprofessional for the client to hear a baby screaming in the background even though I was "working from home". I made the hard choice that I did and am grateful for the opportunity to make it. By the same token, I am sure there are many moms who can't wait to get to work in the morning because that's where the interesting things happen.

The reality is - with one income, certain pursuits are greatly curtailed.

This is true. I don't know how a family could survive for long on one salary, even a good one.[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-04-2012, 11:37 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by LadySpock
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Many spouses / parents who stay at home would tell you that you perception of how easy they have it is offensive and wrong. I am surprised that no one here has called you on this.

Reality: Many families with a stay at home spouse / person create more of a mess because they know that it will magically disappear.

Unless one accommodates this this expectation, it can be easily managed. Personally, I like to create MORE work for those who don't take care of their stuff, providing motivation for that individual to do the right thing the first time, and thus blunting a false expectation.

It is my sense that many housewives fail in this respect, and allow the expectation to become reality.

 
The reality is - with one income, certain pursuits are greatly curtailed.

OK, so I won't be joining the yacht club. The Library is still free.

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Old 01-04-2012, 11:48 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=Dancingqueen;2245172]

  Originally Posted by LadySpock
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As an adult, I see things much more clearly and from a few different perspectives. All things are possible but rarely at the same time. Priorities must be chosen their consequences lived with. I cannot do two things half assed and fail at both of them or succeed at the less important one at the expense of the one that is vital to me. Feminism has given me the ability to choose but not freedom from other peoples judgements about how I choose to live my life. I am judged by the stay at home mommies for not dedicating my life and soul to my children and by the full working mommies for not prioritizing my career.

All things are possible but rarely at the same time. This is very true, and is something that you generally have to learn for yourself - the hard way.

Personally, I couldn't be a stay at home mom. I was miserable, and quite literally losing my mind. However, when I took a job outside the home it was a compromise position and was a job, not a career. I worked 2nd shift in a factory - with a BA. I quickly moved to managing the 2nd shift and in a couple of years moved to an executive assitant/membership coordinator position with a small non-profit that I parlayed into Director of Communications position over an 8 year period.

I took these jobs because our daughter was young, we needed the second income, I needed to stay sane, and I was working within walking distance of home (and the preschool). I stayed in the non-profit position until my daughter was relatively self-sufficient and didn't need mom on such a constant basis. It took a couple of years to find a new position, and when I did, it was as an Executive Assistant at a multi-national corporation.

I viewed it as a foot in the door position - but quickly realized my mistake of taking a "non-management" position. I had to fight my way out of the administrative track into a management track position. It took me 2 years, working on my MBA, and begging for any opportunity to prove myself over and over again, but I finally did it.

This track was unconventional. It drastically decreased my overall earning potential. It forced me into a position to have to work my ass off to prove my worth. I had little choice but to get my MBA - I needed to backfill my lack of practical experience somehow. But I've come through pretty OK, if a little... dented. And my daughter had the benefit of me being around more than I could have if I had gone the career track when she was still an infant. It's all good.

Priorities. Choices. Consequences.

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Old 01-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #13
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I like being a housewife.


  Originally Posted by themuzicman
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Unless one accommodates this this expectation, it can be easily managed. Personally, I like to create MORE work for those who don't take care of their stuff, providing motivation for that individual to do the right thing the first time, and thus blunting a false expectation.

Passive-aggressive tendencies in the homemaker (or anyone) are not exactly respected.


  Originally Posted by themuzicman
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OK, so I won't be joining the yacht club. The Library is still free.

Self-improvement is not, generally, what a housewife does. It's usually house-improvement. But that's a nice fantasy you got there. Tell you what: give me two days of your time to do my housewife schedule with me, and then you can tell me if the pace fits your insulting dream of a permanent vacation on someone else's dime.

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Old 01-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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  Originally Posted by Dancingqueen
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I didn't say it was anti-feminist, I merely implied that as a teenager it SEEMED anti feminist.

I am well aware of what you said.

I made a separate statement.

 
As an adult, I see things much more clearly and from a few different perspectives. All things are possible but rarely at the same time. Priorities must be chosen their consequences lived with. I cannot do two things half assed and fail at both of them or succeed at the less important one at the expense of the one that is vital to me.

Are you suggesting that having a career & being a parent is half assing it?

Is your husband a half assed father? Just curious. A wider question - Are working fathers half assing it at work and at home?

 
Feminism has given me the ability to choose but not freedom from other peoples judgements about how I choose to live my life.

Only YOU can free yourself from other people's judgements.

 
I am judged by the stay at home mommies for not dedicating my life and soul to my children and by the full working mommies for not prioritizing my career.

((raising hand))

FT Working mom here ...NOT judging you.

Who else is with me?

 
The moms that I know that work in my chosen profession feel pulled in opposite directions simultaneously. I used to be one myself. It pained me when my three month old baby would cry and I would have to leave him to do so while I locked myself in the bathroom so I could wrap up my phone conversation with a client. It would have been considered unprofessional for the client to hear a baby screaming in the background even though I was "working from home".

Poor planning.

There are certain things you need to do to ensure success when working from home. One of those things is ((drum roll followed by a pregnant pause for dramatic effect)) ...schedule time to work. That time is separate & apart from your family time.

 
I made the hard choice that I did and am grateful for the opportunity to make it. By the same token, I am sure there are many moms who can't wait to get to work in the morning because that's where the interesting things happen.

More guesswork & anecdotal reasoning?

How do you know what other people are thinking? There are a lot of assumptions in your comments on this topic.

On a personal note: I enjoy both work & home.

Sometimes, when juicy things are taking place at work, I like being there. On the other hand I really look forward to staying home at times. One big truth: I look forward to going home every time.

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Old 01-04-2012, 01:04 PM   #15
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Thought I'd lose my friggen' mind while on mat-leave. Your brain turns to mush. It's no wonder many housewives chit-chat since your entire lives revolve around the inconsequential like what colour was your baby's shit? Did Junior have a good nap today? "Ladies, I've found the BEST recipe for baked alaska!".

So, no, I couldn't be a happy housewife.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #16
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  Originally Posted by plotthickens
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Passive-aggressive tendencies in the homemaker (or anyone) are not exactly respected.

Who said anything about passive aggressive?

[quote[Self-improvement is not, generally, what a housewife does. It's usually house-improvement. But that's a nice fantasy you got there. Tell you what: give me two days of your time to do my housewife schedule with me, and then you can tell me if the pace fits your insulting dream of a permanent vacation on someone else's dime.[/QUOTE]

I was a single dad (wife was living in another state) for several months. I found that good planning and organization makes for efficient work.

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Old 01-04-2012, 01:33 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by LadySpock
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Many spouses / parents who stay at home would tell you that you perception of how easy they have it is offensive and wrong. I am surprised that no one here has called you on this.

Reality: Many families with a stay at home spouse / person create more of a mess because they know that it will magically disappear.



The reality is - with one income, certain pursuits are greatly curtailed.

I was about to. While this may be true when the children are grown, being at home with a baby is very time consuming. They only sleep for about 20 minutes at a time. You put them down for a nap and soon they are up again. A woman with a baby doesn't really sleep at night when her husband is home. He has to get up for work so when the baby cries, she has to deal with it. Generally, the husbands don't want to help at all because they figure well she doesn't work, what gives? If you don't have a washing machine in your house or apartment, it's a major task to do laundry. The only way to grocery shop is to take the baby with you and buy a few things at a time or pay for delivery, unless the housewife has a car.

---------- Post added 01-04-2012 at 10:36 AM ----------

  Originally Posted by themuzicman
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OK, so I won't be joining the yacht club. The Library is still free.

Most stay at home moms can barely take a shit, forget having time to read.

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Old 01-04-2012, 01:43 PM   #18
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I'm on the fence. A few of my high school friends are housewives and they seem miserable (likely a cluster of factors). They're stressed, they have no 'alone' time because the baby takes all of it up, the husband doesn't do jack under the reasoning that if she's at home she can do everything (never mind that she's trying to take care of a child). They feel unappreciated and overwhelmed. The worst is when they post all of this to facebook and the OTHER housewives begin commiserating and basically saying, "well, we just have to get used to it". Yeah... no.

I can deal with the isolation easily but I'm worried I'd get bored. I don't do well with routine in my 'work life'. I worry that I wouldn't feel like I was contributing enough to the household, and spending someone else's money would actively bother me. I don't think I could handle that. I have a lot of issues with the idea of being dependent on someone, maybe it's because I'm young and stupid, maybe it's my personality, I don't know if I'll grow out of that or not.

If I could have a little part-time job I'd feel much better about staying at home the rest of the days a week. Something to give me a bit of wealth of my own to buy my art supplies and contribute to groceries and what not. The idea appeals to me when I think of it possibly giving me time to do art, maybe to plant and take care of a garden, write and play music. I don't know if I'd actually have that time though. Housewives seem rather busy. I also don't know if I could do it for decades, I'm not sure I could do anything for that long without feeling depressed over the lack of change.

So... yeah, I really don't know.
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #19
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If I were to marry someone, I would only marry someone who could afford for me to be a stay at home mom while our kids were young. First off, for what I would pay in child care, I would need to make $12/hour full time just to pay for an immigrant who works for $10/hour. At which point, it's not worth it for me to work because I'm ONLY working to pay the immigrant. Second of all, I have been in people's houses when they aren't home and the immigrant is there. I have seen women leave babies in cribs and leave the house. Babysitters will sit there and talk on the phone and leave babies in the high chair crying. They don't speak English so they can't teach your child words and letters and stuff. They don't care so they don't give babies tummy time or teach them to walk. All they do is sit on the phone with other immigrant babysitters with your baby in the high chair or the crib. Every mother with a babysitter like this, I tell them what babysitters are like and they all say, "not mine, mine is great!" Usually, when I told them what sitters were like, I was telling them what theirs was like just not telling them it was theirs. Also, many think kids should be smacked around. I haven't seen that but if they are telling me that, who knows what they do when no one is watching. In fact, if they act like this in front of me, Gd only knows how bad it is when I'm not there. I'll bet it's even worse.

Oh, and they use bad words and talk about sex in front of the kids.

Want to get an American, instead? Well, even the college kids I know won't babysit for less than $12/an hour. Now don't forget you have to make MORE than you pay the nanny just to break even because she has to be there for at least an hour before you start work and an hour after.

I would rather be a stay at home mom and take in someone else's kid (or 2 kids) the same age as my kid. It just makes more sense. The other thing I thought about was that maybe I would mystery shop if I were a stay at home mom. I used to do that. I could take the kid with me and I would try to knock out the write ups when they were sleeping or after husband got home.

Now when I was younger, I never would have wanted to be a stay at home mom but after seeing what these sitters were like? FORGET IT!!!
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Old 01-04-2012, 01:56 PM   #20
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Not all housewives must have children. Childfree is a perfectly acceptable option as well.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:03 PM   #21
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I stayed home with my daughter until she started school. I enjoyed the time with her but was ready to start doing some part-time work while she was in school. It was fulfilling in it's own way but I enjoy getting out of the house and working to much to give it up completely.
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:07 PM   #22
LadySpock
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Yikes nicole! You need to make sure that you or your husband have worthwhile careers - ones which pay more than $12 per hour!
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Old 01-04-2012, 02:57 PM   #23
gypsy stardust
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  Originally Posted by LadySpock
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Yikes nicole! You need to make sure that you or your husband have worthwhile careers - ones which pay more than $12 per hour!

Exactly. And if you can't make more than you would have to pay out in childcare costs then your Plan B of watching other people's kids is always a viable option. As is child-free by choice.

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Old 01-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #24
Dancingqueen
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  Originally Posted by LadySpock
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Are you suggesting that having a career & being a parent is half assing it?

No, only suggesting that in my case, because I know my personality well, it would have been half assed, at least while the kids were young.

Is your husband a half assed father? Just curious. A wider question - Are working fathers half assing it at work and at home?


My husband is a full assed father-but generally the day to day parenting is my job though I can't speak for other fathers or their asses.

Only YOU can free yourself from other people's judgements.

I'm not speaking on a personal level as to whether other peoples judgements bother me. I am merely stating that feminism did not remove the judgemental attitudes of people regarding womens roles in society. Mothers are condemned hardily by both sides of the feminist divide. I refuse to participate in that condemnation. Feel free to do whatever works for you.



((raising hand))

FT Working mom here ...NOT judging you.

Not judging you right back: just because I can't juggle more than one important thing at a time and keep all my balls in the air, doesn't mean YOU can't.



Poor planning.

There are certain things you need to do to ensure success when working from home. One of those things is ((drum roll followed by a pregnant pause for dramatic effect)) ...schedule time to work. That time is separate & apart from your family time.


My line of work is not 9-5. I would have needed a live in nanny to accommodate my work/travel schedule effectively. Neither myself, nor my husband were comfortable with that option.

More guesswork & anecdotal reasoning?

Anecdotal reasoning is an oximoron and my sharing was not meant to be taken as "proof" of anything. I am merely stating what women I know have told me. This does not mean to imply any objective consensus, just what I have seen around me personally.


How do you know what other people are thinking?

I ask them.

On a personal note: I enjoy both work & home.

This is ideal.

Eventually I'll figure out how to use the multiquote, till then my apologies-many futile attempts have been made.

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Old 01-04-2012, 05:23 PM   #25
yoginimama
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  Originally Posted by Silverity
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The idea appeals to me when I think of it possibly giving me time to do art, maybe to plant and take care of a garden, write and play music. I don't know if I'd actually have that time though. Housewives seem rather busy.

I think it depends on the household. If you want to have that time, you can have that time. Just not when any kids you may have are younger than school age. Being at home with young kids is a very, very full-time job.

  Originally Posted by Silverity
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I also don't know if I could do it for decades, I'm not sure I could do anything for that long without feeling depressed over the lack of change.

When you have a kid or kids, the job is nothing but change. The child/children transform before your eyes; nothing stands still. Granted, it doesn't seem that way when they're 18 months old and you're playing "store" with them in the park. Every minute seems to be an hour long, if not a day. But overall, the pace of change your child undergoes is dizzying. It's a challenge to stay with your child as they develop, adjusting to their needs in each phase. It's a fascinating process, actually, and especially so as your child gets older and you can think "Wow, ten years ago, s/he was three," and remember what they were like at that age, and think about how they got from there to here.

Once you're an empty-nester, boredom might become more of a factor, but then that's down to you--using your time creatively.

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