[jonnyb]

There is a new hypnotherapy practice opening nearby to where I live. The owner is advertising giving lessons in the art of hypnosis, hypnotherapy and self induced trance. I have an interest in stuff like this and am contemplating taking his classes/instruction on hypnosis.

I am inexperienced (hence my desire to take the classes) in the realm of hypnosis, but I am highly concerned about gauging the competency of the instructor. I do not want to get involved with some charlatan trying to pass as a knowledgeable educator.

Have any of you had or know anyone who's had any experience with hypnosis/hypnotherapy? Better yet, have any of you had education in the subject? I am trying to solicit any pertinent advice for critiquing the legitimacy of the institution and instructor for when I meet with him.

Also, any thoughts on the subject you may have are welcome too.

[Osmobot]

I file hypnosis under "things I don't believe in"

[Supaslim]

Hypnosis, in my opinion, is largely useless and fake. It will only work if the hypnotee (?) both believes it will work and wants it to work, and is open to everything you suggest to them during the process. Even then, it at best will just be a suggestion, and not a command. For instance, you could suggest a person (open to the hypnosis) quit smoking (if they want to quit), but you cannot force them to quit smoking.

Its only practical use, imo, is for relaxation. I self-hypnotize to sleep; I'm something of an insomniac and it speeds the process of falling asleep along if only because it forces me to focus on each body part and make it relax, and it's repetitive enough to relax my brain. And I can't even say that I am truly hypnotized then. It's more of a ritual that helps me obtain sleep than a mystical art that tricks my brain into sleeping.

So all in all, I don't know if you would want to spend your money on it at all, even if the institution and instructor are considered reputable and legitimate.

Disclaimer: I learned from internet and a very spiritual acquaintance who really believes in this sort of thing and insisted I try hypnosis when she found out it takes me hours and hours to fall asleep. I am no expert, and I don't pretend to be one.

[Wilderness]

I agree that hypnosis and hypnotherapy only works if the subject wants it to work and believes that it can work. That being said, I see no reason why mental suggestion shouldn't work on primarily mental issues.

As for judging the credentials of this guy... isn't there some kind of accrediting institution of which he should be a member?

[Hydro]

To have Hypnosis working on you properly you have to be suggestible to a certain degree. I was told by one of my Hypnosis teachers a few minutes after we first met that she thought that Hypnosis wouldn't work on me very good due to my lack of required suggestibility.
She was right!

There is some kind of watchdog that jumps in whenever someone tries to hypnotize me. I like to call it my bullshit detector that jumps in when someone tries to manipulate me by using emotional fluff-talk which is basically nothing but a kind of hypnosis.

On the other side I'm very suggestive and therefore quite good at hypnotizing others because as an INTJ it seems that I see the system behind it and use it playfully to my advantage instead of running learned scripts like others sometimes do.


So in your case I suggest to show up at that place and talk to the instructor of what he/she thinks would be required for you to successfully learn hypnosis. Maybe you can ask to be led into a trance as a test if you are suggestible enough. After that experiment you can discuss the result with him/her and check if this is the right institute for you to meet your goals.

It would also be interesting to know what kind of hypnosis they teach. Do they use a more direct or indirect approach or do they teach both ways.

I personally like to work with people who understand hypnosis as a therapy and not some kind of self-fulfillment. I understand the therapy approach more down to earth while the self-fulfillers tend to drift too much into that new-age world for my taste.

You might take a look at this movie to get a better idea:
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[titi monkey]

I tried to allow myself to be hypnotized by an accredited hypnotherapist. I completely relaxed and didn't fight it in the least, but I was never able to fall into that "place" whatever it is. I think it requires you to turn off your inner world -- not your active thinking, but your inner awareness -- which I thought was a little strange; that is where I live after all.

Anyway, I have managed to fall away while still awake during meditation, but it happens rarely and only after a lot of effort. And it doesn't last.

[sunshinekisses]

It's more like a placebo and the effects are quite temporary but it does work. Hypnosis is interesting.

[Sprelious]

I have been considering hypnotherapy for smoking cessation. I've read a great deal about it and found that it is a viable method that does seem to produce results. I look forward to reading this thread.

[RBM]

Hey johnnyb, nice to hear you are pushing on your envelope of knowledge to see what you can find !

For the skeptics viewpoint, here's a science thread I posted a while back titled
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in which Garret Moddel offers this insight on the issue of 'beliefs':

Alex Tsakiris: It speaks to this much-maligned “the experimenter effect,” doesn’t it? Dr. Garret Moddel: Exactly. It’s the experimenter effect and also the effect of belief that if you believe in this stuff, you can get it to work. If you don’t believe in it, you can’t get it to work. So the idea of a skeptic doing an experiment with a skeptical subject, it ain’t going to work. It’s the nature of the phenomenon.

I don't know Moddel's bio, but the interviewer Tsakiris is a self-proclaimed skeptic and this thread was originally sourced to his skeptic's site.

In previous years I was socializing with an older gentleman who was a certified hypnotherapist and had a session with him. His use of hypnotherapy was for past life regression. In short I didn't go very deep and what came up for me was of suspect provenance - likely my intellect rather than something deeper like my intuition.

I am also a 'poor' meditator and suspect the quality issues of each share a common source.

I'll echo Hydro's comment.

	I suggest to show up at that place and talk to the instructor of what he/she thinks would be required for you to successfully learn hypnosis.

With a focused intent you may get a chance to see if the instructor is thoughtful or a 'used car salesman' (my biased title for people whose intent is first and primarily focused on money-making).

His advertising offers a good doorway to your questions in person. Ask what his expertise level is - where and what he has learned. Ultimately ask for his analysis of you, as Hydro mentions.

Hope you post back after your meeting with the instructor ;-)

From a big picture perspective, hypnotherapy CAN work because this is a
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within consciousness space and everything is derived from information - there is NO 'objective world' out 'there'.

---------- Post added 12-31-2011 at 09:15 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by sunshinekisses To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's more like a placebo and the effects are quite temporary but it does work. Hypnosis is interesting.

That's not really saying anything substantive, unfortunately, sunshine.

In science what puts the pieces together is the ability to discover mechanisms. I've yet to hear of a scientific explanation for the mechanism, but I'm aware of a falsifiable explanation that's is not accepted by orthodox science.

Have you ever really dug into the effect to look for a mechanism ?

[jonnyb]

	Originally Posted by Wilderness To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	.....As for judging the credentials of this guy... isn't there some kind of accrediting institution of which he should be a member?

Yes, if the guy wants any patronage, he would at least have some credentialing to flash. Although I like to see membership in a certifying organization, I am still looking out for personal expertise. I know many people in the medical professions, a highly regulated and licensed area of practice. They perform the exact same as anyone else in their chosen profession, a few are good at what they do, most are minimally capable and some really suck, who will kill you slowly rather than simply letting you die quickly. Also, I like this article to shake up people who put too much stock in credentials:


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---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 07:46 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Osmobot To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I file hypnosis under "things I don't believe in"

It's good to be skeptical of everything!

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 08:00 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Supaslim To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Hypnosis, in my opinion, is largely useless and fake. It will only work if the hypnotee (?) both believes it will work and wants it to work, and is open to everything you suggest to them during the process. Even then, it at best will just be a suggestion, and not a command. For instance, you could suggest a person (open to the hypnosis) quit smoking (if they want to quit), but you cannot force them to quit smoking.

Agree, I've been at a few events where there was hypnosis going on. I gave it a fair shake but didn't have any effect by it. I wasn't in a mindset that would've contributed either, regardless, I've seen the effects that it had on quite a few people as well. There is something that seems legitimate in its workings.

Its only practical use, imo, is for relaxation. I self-hypnotize to sleep; I'm something of an insomniac and it speeds the process of falling asleep along if only because it forces me to focus on each body part and make it relax, and it's repetitive enough to relax my brain. And I can't even say that I am truly hypnotized then. It's more of a ritual that helps me obtain sleep than a mystical art that tricks my brain into sleeping.

Part of the class is self hypnosis and therapeutic visualization as well.

	So all in all, I don't know if you would want to spend your money on it at all, even if the institution and instructor are considered reputable and legitimate.

I know; I am still debating this in my head. Perhaps the self use of the techniques would be worth it, but I tend to back away from things if I find myself having to keep giving reasons to myself for supporting my stance.

	Disclaimer: I learned from internet and a very spiritual acquaintance who really believes in this sort of thing and insisted I try hypnosis when she found out it takes me hours and hours to fall asleep. I am no expert, and I don't pretend to be one.

If it's been helping with your sleeping, then I suppose there is some benefit to be had.

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 08:19 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Hydro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To have Hypnosis working on you properly you have to be suggestible to a certain degree. I was told by one of my Hypnosis teachers a few minutes after we first met that she thought that Hypnosis wouldn't work on me very good due to my lack of required suggestibility. She was right!

You had classes in hypnosis then, Hydro? How did you get exposed to hypnosis to the point of taking classes?

There is some kind of watchdog that jumps in whenever someone tries to hypnotize me. I like to call it my bullshit detector that jumps in when someone tries to manipulate me by using emotional fluff-talk which is basically nothing but a kind of hypnosis. On the other side I'm very suggestive and therefore quite good at hypnotizing others because as an INTJ it seems that I see the system behind it and use it playfully to my advantage instead of running learned scripts like others sometimes do.

I know what you mean by that watchdog. I notice the undertones in a lot of advertising, network news, emotional manipulation in movies, etc... and readily point it out to my family (the only time I watch TV is when I am at their homes). I am thinking that I would be immune to the hypnosis if attempted by someone else. Perhaps I would be more suseptible in a self hypnosis attempt being that I could crawl deeper into my own head; that would be JonnyB Nirvanna, but one never knows.

	So in your case I suggest to show up at that place and talk to the instructor of what he/she thinks would be required for you to successfully learn hypnosis. Maybe you can ask to be led into a trance as a test if you are suggestible enough. After that experiment you can discuss the result with him/her and check if this is the right institute for you to meet your goals.

Yes, I want to meet the guy and ask a few questions, feel out his personality, a reconnisance.

	It would also be interesting to know what kind of hypnosis they teach. Do they use a more direct or indirect approach or do they teach both ways.

The instructor mentioned something about learning 6 different type of trance inducements on the phone. He rattled them off faster than I could write, but the phone call was mostly concerning class times, any prerequisite knowledge, and cost. You know, some of the more practicle matters that could easily make my decision. So far, it all jibes with my personal schedule and circumstances.

I personally like to work with people who understand hypnosis as a therapy and not some kind of self-fulfillment. I understand the therapy approach more down to earth while the self-fulfillers tend to drift too much into that new-age world for my taste. You might take a look at this movie to get a better idea: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Watched it, interesting. I am use to more proper neuroligical/psychological terminology as the descriptors, but I was getting the idea. I can so relate to being induced into a trance while driving home from work. One of the student's questions about the use of billboards on the freeway in hopes to expose people to marketing ploys while in a suggestive state really has me wondering......

Thanks for your input, Hydro.

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 08:25 AM ----------

Originally Posted by titi monkey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I tried to allow myself to be hypnotized by an accredited hypnotherapist. I completely relaxed and didn't fight it in the least, but I was never able to fall into that "place" whatever it is. I think it requires you to turn off your inner world -- not your active thinking, but your inner awareness -- which I thought was a little strange; that is where I live after all. Anyway, I have managed to fall away while still awake during meditation, but it happens rarely and only after a lot of effort. And it doesn't last.

Perhaps I don't succumb to hypnosis to access my inner world because I am already there. If it is an INTJ thing, that may explain the vacant, hollow look, like looking through/past someone I am conversing with if I get provoked into thinking, accessing my inner world for information.....or because the conversation is painfully boring.

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 08:31 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by sunshinekisses To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's more like a placebo and the effects are quite temporary but it does work. Hypnosis is interesting.

People get what they are wanting out of life, whether that is actively or subconsciously wanting depends on the overriding thought processing of the person. There are many people who want things but feel as though they are undeserving or need affirmation from a perceived authority figure. For whatever reason, I don't know, but I know many people who are helpless to make a decision on their own. They want what they want, but must have the correct circumstance to receive. Perhaps the use of a pill, suggestion, spiritual blessing, expert opinion, Medicine Man dancing, or what have you regardless of its actual efficacy is enough to illicit what they desire to permeate their lives'.

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 08:47 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Sprelious To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I have been considering hypnotherapy for smoking cessation. I've read a great deal about it and found that it is a viable method that does seem to produce results. I look forward to reading this thread.

From my phone conversation with the instructor, there is a clinical hypnotherapy training section following the basic hypnotherapy segments. He mentioned this would be the area which deals with breaking habits, smoking, over eating, pornography (he claims), etc... For some reason, he won't touch alcoholics. Perhaps it may be for reasons of possible physical withdrawal symptoms that would need physician intervention.

Anyhow, the youtube link that Hydro posted above seemed to explain it rather well in how the mind establishes correlative associations with specific activities. In watching it, I decided that I smoke as a way to exhibit my rebelliousness. I don't smoke much, but I determined when I do, it is to outwardly exhibit my rejection of expectations placed by external sources.

---------- Post added 01-01-2012 at 09:26 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hey johnnyb, nice to hear you are pushing on your envelope of knowledge to see what you can find !

Thanks for responding RBM. I like how you have an open mind on topics of a subjective nature.

For the skeptics viewpoint, here's a science thread I posted a while back titled To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. in which Garret Moddel offers this insight on the issue of 'beliefs': I don't know Moddel's bio, but the interviewer Tsakiris is a self-proclaimed skeptic and this thread was originally sourced to his skeptic's site.

Interesting read. The saying 'whether you're right or wrong, you're right' comes to mind. An extent a person believes or disbelieves in a specific phenomenon has a profound influence in the outcome of their experience. This is readily apparent in situations where people have an overwhelming belief in something in absence 0f evidence or in the face of contradictory data (religion) or profound disbelief with sufficient supporting facts (OJ Simpson).

In previous years I was socializing with an older gentleman who was a certified hypnotherapist and had a session with him. His use of hypnotherapy was for past life regression. In short I didn't go very deep and what came up for me was of suspect provenance - likely my intellect rather than something deeper like my intuition. I am also a 'poor' meditator and suspect the quality issues of each share a common source.

Again, I am wondering about an INTJ thing.......

	With a focused intent you may get a chance to see if the instructor is thoughtful or a 'used car salesman' (my biased title for people whose intent is first and primarily focused on money-making). His advertising offers a good doorway to your questions in person. Ask what his expertise level is - where and what he has learned. Ultimately ask for his analysis of you, as Hydro mentions.

I have been doing a little research so as to be able to ask rudimentarily intelligent questions when I meet with the instructor. I will try to set an appointment this Monday to do so. Reading through his website pages, he seems to have quite a bit of experience. He has a number of credentials as well as being registered with the state as a proprietary secondary education facility. Perhaps tuition could be tax deductable under lifelong learning credits....I will check with my accountant brother on that. His credentials at least erase a red flag if were not to have any, correspondingly though, I do not take too much comfort in certifications. It is difficult to rate the quality of a person and their expertise. Being a person who doesn't buy into 'feel good' BS, I will be able to determine a great deal when I meet him.

	Hope you post back after your meeting with the instructor ;-)

I shall

[theiceman]

	Originally Posted by sunshinekisses To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's more like a placebo and the effects are quite temporary but it does work. Hypnosis is interesting.

Exactly, as long as people think that it puts them in an altered state of consciousness then they will go into that altered state of consciousness. I file Hypnosis under placebo and it only works because people believe that a change is taking place. I do find it interesting because I'm not closed off to the idea of hypnosis working but I don't think that it does. The experiences of those that have been 'hypnotized' are always interesting to read but I still think that it is 100% placebo effect.

[titi monkey]

Originally Posted by theiceman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Exactly, as long as people think that it puts them in an altered state of consciousness then they will go into that altered state of consciousness. I file Hypnosis under placebo and it only works because people believe that a change is taking place. I do find it interesting because I'm not closed off to the idea of hypnosis working but I don't think that it does. The experiences of those that have been 'hypnotized' are always interesting to read but I still think that it is 100% placebo effect.

You say "placebo effect" as though you've solved a mystery; but isn't the placebo effect a mystery itself? Doesn't it reveal the power the mind has over bodily processes? Wouldn't this be exactly what hypnotherapy is attempting to achieve?

[theiceman]

	Originally Posted by titi monkey To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You say "placebo effect" as though you've solved a mystery; but isn't the placebo effect a mystery itself? Doesn't it reveal the power the mind has over bodily processes? Wouldn't this be exactly what hypnotherapy is attempting to achieve?

Well it is mainly used as if it was to solve a mystery. I've been taught that placebo effect is exists instead of it being a theory. I don't remember the exact names of the study off the top of my head but two psychologists questioned the placebo effect, then had to go back and modify their work years later because they actually found that the placebo effect is significant. The academic community (specifically in psychology) acknowledges that the placebo effect exists but that's information that I've gotten from the professors and doctors that I have talked to.

Yes, if you re-read my posts I label hypnotherapy as using the placebo effect in order to create results. My post implied that hypnotherapy would basically be the patient rearranging their own mind so that their body or whatever needs to be medicated is well again. It would just be modified as well so that a command word or motion can let another person appear as they are being in control. I'm still working on my own personal definition of this but studies and experience are pointing to my connotation of 'hypnosis' and 'hypnotherapy'.

[Innovate]

I recently did 2 papers on hypnotherapy, so I did a fair amount of research on the subject. Results can occur with reducing anxiety/stress (similar issues), and some addictions, but the person under hypnotherapy needs to actively cooperate, since, as it seems, resolving issues with hypnotherapy is done perceptually by the individual. Although, one could change their perception without hypnosis, but the relaxation and meditation techniques involved are helpful as it prevents distractions entering one's mind.

[jonnyb]

*update*

I tried to call the instructor back a couple times with no answer to try and set up a time talk with him before deciding if his classes would be worth my time and livelihood. I got a voicemail from him yesterday indicating that he put a new video on his website dealing with questions and answers and that I should watch it and then come to the first class to ask further questions.

This is a bad sign to me. I like to gauge people one on one on things like this. It is difficult to assess an individual in a group setting as (s)he will pander to the overall dynamic of a group, be less likely to exhibit true self, run difficult questions into the ground by the distractions that further relating and less controversial questions of others provide, and other group BS.

Beside, the shear fact of perceived avoidance I feel has me already disliking the situation. Perhaps another opportunity may present itself in the future.

[RBM]

Originally Posted by jonnyb To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

*update* I tried to call the instructor back a couple times with no answer to try and set up a time talk with him before deciding if his classes would be worth my time and livelihood. I got a voicemail from him yesterday indicating that he put a new video on his website dealing with questions and answers and that I should watch it and then come to the first class to ask further questions. This is a bad sign to me. I like to gauge people one on one on things like this. It is difficult to assess an individual in a group setting as (s)he will pander to the overall dynamic of a group, be less likely to exhibit true self, run difficult questions into the ground by the distractions that further relating and less controversial questions of others provide, and other group BS. Beside, the shear fact of perceived avoidance I feel has me already disliking the situation. Perhaps another opportunity may present itself in the future.

'Bad sign' is likely your personal spin by your EGO, and nothing more malevolent than that about this guy. His business may be overflowing and you are just another 'potential client'. See if you can purge the negativity and the expectations of learning from THIS guy - maybe somebody else is in the pipeline for you on this topic.

---------- Post added 01-05-2012 at 07:30 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by johnnyb
	Originally Posted by Osmobot View Post I file hypnosis under "things I don't believe in" It's good to be skeptical of everything!

File this under 'living language'

If you don't believe, just because, then your mind is closed. A closed mind learns nothing. Skepticism has undergone use and abuse in the last view decades.

A person with a closed mind is ripe for pseudoskepticism - Here's a
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I practice 'open minded skepticism' - there's a world of difference !

[jonnyb]

I poked around on the National Guild of Hypnotists ( ngh.net ) website the other day and found a page of their certified instructors in the State where I live. I shot off an email to a few of them inquiring about their instruction. *waiting to hear back*

I don't think I'm a closed minded skeptic......of course, I may be closed mined just enough to not notice.

[Bluesea]

For me Jonny, it seems as if it is an issue of trust in this particular instructor as much as about hypnotherapy itself. I would be interested in his ethics and the way he languages his hynotic suggestions and his rationale for why he chooses to language his suggestions the way he does. What his understanding of the risks are and what protections he puts in place for these. How he manages the ethics of teaching others who could then potentially misuse this with members of the public and how he manages these risks.

This article is written by a practitioner of hypnosis and was quite informative:
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To feel you can surrender 1OO% to another person and let them control what you think, feel, and do is a big ask for me. I would probably resist the process, if I could do it at all, until I had sufficient trust that the person had a lot of personal integrity, the need regarding what I was wanting hypnosis for was very high, and the options for another solution were very low or non existent.

If he is teaching you how to hypnotise yourself, I guess he is teaching a basic technique and you could consider whether you need to evaluate his teaching skill as the issue to investigate more than whether hypnosis works or whether he can hypnotise you effectively? So asking if you can speak to people he has trained / how many [what %] of his students have success applying his technique after his training and of those who do not succeed what the factors leading to this are, could help you to evaluate his level of skill as a teacher?

If you don't believe in hypnosis at a basic level or do not believe you are hypnotisable, or trust the instructor, you might be a sceptical student, and have a more resistant mind when being taught, which could lower your capacity to learn the technique. I think when we spend a lot of our mental energy critically evaluating what is being said we do not process the information received in the same way as people who just want to understand it in order to apply it. You might need to source the exact nature of the resistance in yourself and look at how you can manage it, so it is not a barrier to the process? As that would be you be wasting your own time and money. At least you can try to minimise getting in your own way if you genuinely want to experience a hypnotic trance state and learn how to induce it for yourself.

I think at times where we are curious about something we can be open to experimenting with it without deciding in advance that it is true or not. So perhaps thinking about whether you can go into it with enough curiosity and openness to what happens when you learn it and what happens when you go into the trance state and be interested enough in it, as a one off experience, and whether you can genuinely leave it to afterwards to decide what you make of it all, could also be a deciding factor regarding doing the course? Are you ready to go into it and allow it to work for you? If not, keep going with your information seeking and evaluation of instructors until you feel you have found someone you can trust and do feel totally ready before taking the course.

Sometimes the way we go into it can just bring a self fulfilling prophecy - i.e when we are sceptical, believe it won't work for us, or it is hard to trust the person or the process we can get an inevitable outcome of it not working through these factors, regardless of whether it could or not. But afterwards, if we are honest with ourselves, we can feel safer because we resisted letting it work; i.e perhaps the level of vulnerability that would have occurred if we had surrendered would have been too high to tolerate. Or ideas like 'only weak minded people can be hypnotised' are too dissonant with our ideas about ourselves and we want to retain our idea of ourselves so resist the process to be able to achieve this.

Just thoughts ... hope they are helpful to your process. Will be interesting to hear what you decide, what you find out about this guy and his process, and your reasons for going forward or not. Guess there are other instructors if this one is not right.