[Wry Satyr]

Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1) Set ground rules 1a) How late are you allowed to stay out? 1b) What types of protection are you supposed to use? 1c) When are you required to communicate your location? 1d) Do you have to ask permission before hand? 1e) Are you obligated to disclose anything after the fact? 2) Go have fun 3) Assess problems if any damage occurs Since you say your love and relationship is secure, it should endure any hiccups.

We are in the process of coming up with ground rules.

We don't live together, or even close to each other, so reporting about how late we're out or when we'll be home is moot. We've discussed adn agreed upon circumstances for protection before, but should discuss that again just to ensure we're on the same page. It's not so much a matter of asking and receiving permission, but rather letting the other know that there's a person of interest and that an outing is planned. We haven't discussed anything about post-outing disclosure and I'm not sure how beneficial that would be, although I must admit that hearing about her outings has been a big turn on for me in the past. Also, we're both well-equipped to discuss any problems/hiccups, so I feel confident that we'll work through this and grow, hopefully together, in new and exciting ways.

[wotsamattaU]

This sounds like a train wreck just waiting to happen. I hope you are not throwing away the best relationship of your life in attempting to explore this.

[Polymath20]

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This sounds like a train wreck just waiting to happen. I hope you are not throwing away the best relationship of your life in attempting to explore this.

Plenty of people engage in this lifestyle without drama.

[wotsamattaU]

There is a lot at stake when both are not on the same page.

Each must live a life style which adheres to their own ideals in order to achieve lasting happiness.

He has stated concern that she is making adjustments for something she would not otherwise choose to do. This is a red flag and should be heeded.

Is she conceding just to please him? Is this what D really has wanted all along? If it was, this would have happened a long time ago.

There is a huge risk in taking it to the next step.

[Wry Satyr]

I have NO desire to throw away what I have with D. Traditional relationships are not fulfilling in a variety of ways (at least for me). So, it is my hope that I will grow individually and that we will grow as a couple as the result of our experience.

---------- Post added 04-25-2012 at 03:11 PM ----------

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

There is a lot at stake when both are not on the same page. Each must live a life style which adheres to their own ideals in order to achieve lasting happiness. He has stated concern that she is making adjustments for something she would not otherwise choose to do. This is a red flag and should be heeded. Is she conceding just to please him? Is this what D really has wanted all along? If it was, this would have happened a long time ago. There is a huge risk in taking it to the next step.

You're correct - there is a red flag of whether D is doing this just to appease me or if she is actually choosing to out of a desire to meet her own needs. Nothing has progressed to the point of us actualizing this change in relational dynamic. We will continue to check in as we have all along, to discuss positives and negatives and the effects on both of us, and to take steps to let each other know that there is no diminishment of love for each other.

[Polymath20]

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There is a lot at stake when both are not on the same page.

This is why they are communicating.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Each must live a life style which adheres to their own ideals in order to achieve lasting happiness.

This is a pretty selfish approach to relationships. There's no reason that people cannot have differing ideals and still love each other.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He has stated concern that she is making adjustments for something she would not otherwise choose to do. This is a red flag and should be heeded.

Heeded, perhaps, but if his needs are not being met, then he should just blindly accept her conditions?

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is she conceding just to please him? Is this what D really has wanted all along? If it was, this would have happened a long time ago.

D is engaging in the lifestyle as well. This seems to be an invalid point. Just because someone comes out later in life doesn't mean "they would have been doing it all along"

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There is a huge risk in taking it to the next step.

Which is why they are assured that their love and their relationship can handle it.

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is a pretty selfish approach to relationships. There's no reason that people cannot have differing ideals and still love each other.

Selfish? Yes, there is reason. Their values have not been in alignment from the beginning. The structure you build your life upon does not bend like the willow. If one bends too far from their own values, or does so out of fear of losing the other - it does not bode well for future stability and mutual happiness long term.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	D is engaging in the lifestyle as well. This seems to be an invalid point. Just because someone comes out later in life doesn't mean "they would have been doing it all along"

D would have been far more willing from the get go when this was first brought to her. Do not fool yourself. Many have tried and failed miserably in these attempts. I understand they are doing all they can to avoid issues. I am saying she is going in to this having been compromised. There is a huge difference.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Which is why they are assured that their love and their relationship can handle it.

You can go in with that intention. You can not guarantee it's success.

Dabbling with multiple emotional intimacies; the sharing of emotional connection and affections with more than one partner is where I foresee a train wreck. I hope it is worth this risk to both equally.

[Polymath20]

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Selfish much? Yes, there is reason. Their values have not been in alignment from the get go. The structure you build your life upon does not bend like the willow. If one bends too far from their own values, or does so out of fear of losing the other - it does not bode well for future stability and mutual happiness long term.

If they were not right for each other, then this crucible will reveal it.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	D would have been far more willing from the get go when this was first brought to her. Do not fool yourself. Many have tried and failed miserably in these attempts. I understand they are doing all they can to avoid issues. I am saying she is going in to this having been compromised. There is a huge difference.

You say this with such certainty - do you truly believe that people do not discover things about themselves? Even unexpected things?

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You can go in with that intention. You can not guarantee it's success. Dabbling with multiple emotional intimacies; the sharing of emotional connection and affections with more than one partner is where I foresee a train wreck. I hope it is worth this risk to both equally.

It most likely is. Some people do not naturally fall into the Judeo Christian mold of "one person at a time" - simply look at the prevalence of cheating and philandering. Cheaters give into their biological impulses. Polyamorous people do as well, but the do it with honesty and integrity.

[AnnaMolly]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It most likely is. Some people do not naturally fall into the Judeo Christian mold of "one person at a time" - simply look at the prevalence of cheating and philandering. Cheaters give into their biological impulses. Polyamorous people do as well, but the do it with honesty and integrity.

You may not mean to, but the way you speak makes it sound as if all monogamous people are only being monogamous because they're indoctrinated by religion and / or culture. You should know that while some people have instrinsic urges to sleep with many people, other people have an intrinsic urge to focus on one person and only sleep with them.

The key is obviously that you should only enter relationships with people who share your urges in this regard. If they OP and his SO differ too much here, it's not a good match, because one of them will end up unhappy and dissatisfied. If they're close in nature and able to align their urges and wishes, that's great.

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If they were not right for each other, then this crucible will reveal it.

This is the concern/risk. Is the desire to explore this worth risking the relationship? Will there be regret in it's disintegration, should it occur?

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You say this with such certainty - do you truly believe that people do not discover things about themselves? Even unexpected things?

Life is a continual discovery. Change occurs best and is most successful when it is initiated willingly from oneself. Is that the case here?

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It most likely is. Some people do not naturally fall into the Judeo Christian mold of "one person at a time" - simply look at the prevalence of cheating and philandering. Cheaters give into their biological impulses. Polyamorous people do as well, but the do it with honesty and integrity.

This is not about my imposing my values on to another. I am not judging anyone or their lifestyle. I am simply stating what I foresee, pointing out what is obvious to me. They are aware there is risk in proceeding with this.

You have to be willing to throw away the success of what you have now. It is a huge gamble. This relationship will not be able to return to it's current state. There is no going back to what was before. If it is that important to both then the answer is easy.

---------- Post added 04-25-2012 at 06:37 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Wry Satyr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What changed between then and now for her to willingly consider a way of life that is in contrast to what I think she intinctively wants and needs? I'm still contemplating that because it's not completely clear.

She recognizes you would leave if she is not open to a poly lifestyle.

	Originally Posted by Wry Satyr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We have a non-traditional relationship, so there's no template for how to make this work, but I want to make it work and I think she does, too. As always, I welcome any constructive insights that any of you may offer.

Steve Pavlina was quite open publicly with his decision to go poly and blogged about it. If you are interested in reading about their experience and how it affected them they can be found
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.

The blog links to others as you go through them.

[DrCiao]

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You may not mean to, but the way you speak makes it sound as if all monogamous people are only being monogamous because they're indoctrinated by religion and / or culture. You should know that while some people have instrinsic urges to sleep with many people, other people have an intrinsic urge to focus on one person and only sleep with them. The key is obviously that you should only enter relationships with people who share your urges in this regard. If they OP and his SO differ too much here, it's not a good match, because one of them will end up unhappy and dissatisfied. If they're close in nature and able to align their urges and wishes, that's great.

I gather Polymath might be biased from his own experiences. (He can correct me if I'm wrong) But people who marry early in their lives (early 20s etc) often become disillusioned with the marriage institution, and later in their lives 30s-40s, become polyamorous, and not wanting to be committed to one person after being in a marriage in which they felt was more like a "prison sentence" unless of course, if there are children involved- and many I gather, might stay together just for the sake of their children, however exploring polyamorous behaviors while still legally being married to their partners.

I also gather people remained married out of societal pressure or because of family wealth involved and usually those people's social circles revolve around The Church.

People in their 20s are vastly different from who they become in their 30s and beyond. However, the relationship commitment they take on early in their lives, esp for the boomer generation and Gen Xers, often have a negative impact on how they view monogamous relationships because they made the commitment of a monogamous relationship before they had a chance to fully mature into the people they would become.

For those people who focused on their studies and ambitions in their 20s/30s and had a chance to date many people and explore what it is that they truly want, can be more focused on monogamous relationships because they have developed their adult tastes, and have more perspective about what they want, and who they are looking for and more probably ready to make a commitment.

Personally for me, I've been in two marriages, and I much rather focus on one person, and be in love with one person, than spread myself thin by exploring many people at once, but that's just me.

However, I suspect some people in this thread might be "trapped" in loveless marriages with young children, and they feel they cannot leave their spouse legally, so advocating polyamory to be able to satiate their sexual desires with other people.

[Lilie]

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is not about my imposing my values on to another. I am not judging anyone or their lifestyle. I am simply stating what I foresee, pointing out what is obvious to me.

For what it's worth, I find it just as obvious that this is not going to work. The only question is how long it will struggle along with neither person really happy. D because she's compromised herself and Satyr because he has no idea what the hell he wants, really.

	She recognizes you would leave if she is not open to a poly lifestyle.

I would qualify this though. She is very open to a poly lifestyle, but only the sex part and not the multiple emotional connections that Satyr is looking for. It is still a fundamental incompatibility, but this isn't the poly vs mono thing that Polymath seems to be arguing about. She is not an uptight repressed person obsessed with sexual monogamy in spite of how outdated and blah blah whatever that is. She is DTF, she just doesn't want her boyfriend getting all googly over other people.

[Polymath20]

Originally Posted by AnnaMolly To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You may not mean to, but the way you speak makes it sound as if all monogamous people are only being monogamous because they're indoctrinated by religion and / or culture. You should know that while some people have instrinsic urges to sleep with many people, other people have an intrinsic urge to focus on one person and only sleep with them. (1) The key is obviously that you should only enter relationships with people who share your urges in this regard. If they OP and his SO differ too much here, it's not a good match, because one of them will end up unhappy and dissatisfied. If they're close in nature and able to align their urges and wishes, that's great. (2)

1) This is why I said "naturally" - some people do naturally fit into the mold society endorses. Some do not.

2) This is exactly what I'm saying. If their needs are indeed asymmetrical then this endeavor will reveal as such. If their needs are closely enough aligned, then there is no major problem.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is the concern/risk. Is the desire to explore this worth risking the relationship? Will there be regret in it's disintegration, should it occur?

You seem to assume that Wry's unmet needs are unimportant. If his needs go unmet, would that not also possibly cause disintegration?

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Life is a continual discovery. Change occurs best and is most successful when it is initiated willingly from oneself. Is that the case here?

Sometimes it helps if an understanding party gives you a little push out of the door, to help you step out of your comfort zone. Wry and D seem to have a very good support system for each other, which can give both of them courage to explore love and sexuality.

Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is not about my imposing my values on to another. I am not judging anyone or their lifestyle. I am simply stating what I foresee, pointing out what is obvious to me. They are aware there is risk in proceeding with this. You have to be willing to throw away the success of what you have now. It is a huge gamble. This relationship will not be able to return to it's current state. There is no going back to what was before. If it is that important to both then the answer is easy.

Nor am I talking about values, yours or anyone's; I am talking about socially accepted tradition.

My position is that if Wry's needs/desires go unmet then the relationship is doomed anyways. It's like a big game of chess. If you make decision A, then there is result B, so you have to make a different decision to get a different result. Either way, things are not going to stay exactly as they are. Change is inevitable.

[wotsamattaU]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is exactly what I'm saying. If their needs are indeed asymmetrical then this endeavor will reveal as such. If their needs are closely enough aligned, then there is no major problem.

The amount of discussion this proposal has undergone is a clear indication of strong resistance = not closely enough aligned.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You seem to assume that Wry's unmet needs are unimportant.

Wrong. You assume incorrectly. My point is these two individuals are not harmonious in what they want and need. The focus has been on D in my arguments because she is agreeing against her fundamental ideals. Wry was ready to walk away from this relationship; only then did she agree to it. This is emotionally manipulative, even if it was not intended to be so.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If his needs go unmet, would that not also possibly cause disintegration?

This is just another example of incompatibility, which is my point. Badgering each other to adopt to lifestyles which do not suit the other is a glaring mismatch.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sometimes it helps if an understanding party gives you a little push out of the door, to help you step out of your comfort zone. Wry and D seem to have a very good support system for each other, which can give both of them courage to explore love and sexuality.

One would do better to go looking for an individual who shares these ideals rather than attempting to change someone's very foundation/value structure. This is not fair to the other party. Either you accept them as they are and love them for it or find someone else who matches what you want/need.

I suggest resisting the urge to convert someone to your ideal when they clearly resist. It is blatantly disrespectful and ultimately futile/pointless. A waste of expended energies and emotional investments.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My position is that if Wry's needs/desires go unmet then the relationship is doomed anyways.

I agree. Same for hers. They have to be freely congruent for this to work long term. Why work exhaustively at attempting to shape something where there is clearly strong opposition? Is this fair to either party? Would it not have been more prudent to recognize they are not in natural attunement and call it quits, thus avoiding further mutual pain?

At what point does one recognize neither can be happy long term?

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Either way, things are not going to stay exactly as they are. Change is inevitable.

They are at a crossroads. What occurs next dictates the future of their relationship. Only they know what is best for them.

[Polymath20]

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	<<condense>>

It seems we're mostly on the same page. My logical conclusion is that D will adapt to this lifestyle and all will be peachy, even if she doesn't partake as much, or she won't. To me, simply looks like they are being cautious - I really don't see any problems.

[wotsamattaU]

It may be a bit Pollyanna-ish to believe so.


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[Lilie]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It seems we're mostly on the same page. My logical conclusion is that D will adapt to this lifestyle and all will be peachy, even if she doesn't partake as much, or she won't. To me, simply looks like they are being cautious - I really don't see any problems.

If Satyr were the one "adapting" to a more conservative lifestyle, would you think it was likely?

It's kind of a trick question since they already tried that and the current relationship full of "discussions" and jealousy is the result.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Wry Satyr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're correct - there is a red flag of whether D is doing this just to appease me or if she is actually choosing to out of a desire to meet her own needs.

I would be wary of that, but at the same time keep in mind (as some here don't seem to) that D is an autonomous person. (Not to say that you don't, but, again, some here seem quite cynical of her capacities.)

[Wry Satyr]

Wow - the thread has really exploded with activity in my absence! I'm glad that the topic has given so many people food for thought.

To clarify a few things, discussions with D have continued with her becoming very excited in a positive way about the positibility for her to explore a new fun interest with a man who has been flirting with her for months. We talk about waht that means for her and for us. They have a dinner/drink date planned for this Thursday and I'm not feeling threatened. D has given me her blessing, so to speak, to join the couple of whom I've refered in previous posts to this thread.

There has been mention made that one or the other or even both of us are pushing each other to adopt the other's choice of lifestyle. There is negotiating is every relationship of how to manage various situations and still be inspired by love and desire.

There was no point when I issued D an ultimatum of do this or I'm walking away. Likewise, she never issued anything like that to me. I suppose it is possible that we perceived the possibility of that happening.

We acknowledge that we both have needs and that we meet many of them for each other but that some needs are outside of each other's desire or capacity to fulfill.

For what it's worth, I love D, but I'm not in love with her and I have no desire to be in love with anyone. There is a clear difference between the two to me one is desire and appreciation and intense affection whereas the other (to me) becomes mindless co-dependence, which I can't abide in a relationship. When I choose to be in a relationship, it is because I mindfully chose to be so...to learn, to grow, to experience, to evolve beyond myself. I will never choose to be in a relationship for the sole purpose of being in a relationship - I would rather be alone than in an unhealthy relationship where there's no connection or growth. D and I have a connection and we are growing.

[zibber]

Aren't you scared this is a little too opportunistic on D's part, suddenly giving her blessing now that she's met someone? It almost seems like she might mostly be giving that blessing for her own benefit. Either way, this could work out nicely for you. (I'd just be a little frightful of D's attitude if it doesn't work out with that other lover.) Good on you for not feeling threatened - to me that is such a sign of emotional strength.

[wotsamattaU]

Originally Posted by Wry Satyr To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

D and I are at a crossroads. We had the chance to discuss it last night, but neither of us really wanted to go there. What I have with D is the healthiest relationship I've ever known along with a solid communication driven connection. I love her. The question remains - will the only way to appease D's sense of security be for me to commit to a long term relationship and disregard a significant part of who I am? If that's the case, then I will sadly be forced to walk away.

Even if unexpressed, something like this comes across very clearly. The amount of negotiation you two have undergone over this is staggering. Her sudden change of heart I would view as a red flag.

I do hope you both find your happiness.

[Wry Satyr]

Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Aren't you scared this is a little too opportunistic on D's part, suddenly giving her blessing now that she's met someone? It almost seems like she might mostly be giving that blessing for her own benefit. Either way, this could work out nicely for you. (I'd just be a little frightful of D's attitude if it doesn't work out with that other lover.) Good on you for not feeling threatened - to me that is such a sign of emotional strength.

I'm not going to pretend that it's easy to navigate this highly complex relationship style that I'm seeking. Like anyone, I have my moments of doubt, including self-doubt, but I've set this ship in motion, as it were, and I plan to continue to work with D for our mutual fulfillment.

	Originally Posted by wotsamattaU To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Even if unexpressed, something like this comes across very clearly. The amount of negotiation you two have undergone over this is staggering. Her sudden change of heart I would view as a red flag. I do hope you both find your happiness.

Thank you wotsamattaU. I know that you're keeping me on my toes so that neither D nor I are blind-sided by unexpected emotions or turns of events, or the more obvious red flag that pops up now and then.

[Wry Satyr]

Much time has passed since my last entry in this thread.

Since then, talks with D have continued. I've realized that a FWB situation for involvements outside of my relationship with D is what I'm most interested in since it allows for communication and sexual exploration without the threat of a commitment that could come between D and I. In talking with D about this, she feels much more comfortable and far less threatened in knowing that I don't want anyone to come between us or replace her in my life.

Things never came to fruition for D with her other man. As it turns out, the man was crude and disrespectful and D cut him loose before anything came to pass.

I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread that about one year ago, I had been invited by another couple to join them, that that had caused stress for D and me, but that talks were ongoing over the past several months for me to join them again while discussing the same with D. This came to pass earlier this month and while it wasn't as spontaneous as it had been last year, it was every bit as satisfying. D and I have discussed and worked through this and while it didn't result in the pain it had last year, I discovered that D needs more communication and assurances along the way to ensure that she feels safe and loved. Also, and of great interest, the other couple has informed me that they are interested in including D in our future play.

Speaking of play, D and I have availed ourselves of playing together with a few couples, which was very exciting for both of us. I would like to include that in our lifestyle more often - once per month at least. D enjoys it, but she's less invested in experiencing it that often. That's been difficult to navigate - my wanting more and her being satisfied with the occasional outing. I'm at a loss as to how to negotiate more, if she simply isn't as interested or enthusiastic as I am about it.

I suppose that may come from D feeling as though she's not enough for me, or that I may not be as attracted to her as I had been, or that I'm simply drawn to that which is different.

Our talks on these topics continues. I readily acknowledge that I am drawn to that which is different (ie, exotic/foreign beauty). That's always been the case since I was about 8 or 9 years old. The notion of D not being enough isn't true where emotions are concerned. With her, I feel loved and cared for and desired. When it comes to relational components, though, I find myself attracted to many women who are different in attitude, spirituality, profession, appearance...where individuality plays a key role in attraction. Perhaps that's the result of my years of attunement with polyamory. I must admit, I'm not satisfied to simply acknowledge my attraction and leave it at that.

[Polymath20]

One couple I know has uneven needs - one partner is more like you and the other is more content. With time and experience, both have their needs being met. That group is much more open than the average poly group it seems.


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^ this documentary is about a particularly interesting subset of poly people. Worth watching I think.

[Wry Satyr]

Thanks Polymath20. I'll check that out when I'm home later.

If you know, what happened with that couple that eventually allowed for both of them to have their needs met?