[Mogura]

Lately there's been a few threads/forum chatter on the topic of emigrating from America for reasons of economy and economic outlook, the loss or reduction of rights, social compatibility/belonging, etc.

The thing is, you don't just pack a bag, hop on a plane to a "better" country, find a job, and then start working, etc. Most, if not all, countries have immigration laws and regulations designed to keep people out (or at least regulate the inflow of people). Those immigration laws are there to protect the citizens of their country from having their jobs taken away by foreigners.

That said, it's not impossible, but emigrating does take some planning and a bit of luck.

For those of you that plan on or dream of escaping from America, what are your reasons, what's your plan, and what are you doing right now to realize your dream? For those of you that have already done so, for what reasons did you leave and how did you go about it?

[mllebrie]

I don't know if I'd ever seriously do it, but Poland is tempting. I read an article a few weeks ago about British people moving to Poland, instead of Polish people moving to Britain. Better work opportunities, lower living expenses, that sort of thing. Plus, they have delicious pickles.

[fmr3]

I have started considering this in the past couple of years myself. The Netherlands has sparked my interest because from my perspective it seems to be a very live and let live culture. Learning Dutch seems like a fun challenge, too. Of course, I have to keep reminding myself to be clear on my purpose for leaving. In addition to what Mogura said - not only is the transition difficult with lots of uncertainty, it also does not guarantee the satisfaction you envisioned.

[Cooper]

I have been tossing around the idea of Greece.....

[True Rune]

New Zealand. Connections.

[chocolate]

I live in Canada, but I plan on leaving North America when I'm older. Mostly it's a passion/follow my heart sort of thing, because where I'm planning to go after I get my degree is into Asia. I'm studying sustainable agriculture and want to work at creating better food production systems in developing countries. I have at least 5 years if not more to go before I think about leaving, though.

The other part of it is a culture thing. I've always been an outsider where I live, even though I've lived here my whole life. Having been abroad several times, I've really enjoyed having a reason for being outside of the group. It satisfies me when people don't expect me to participate in their version of "normal". I'm part Indian, most of the friends I've made over the years are Chinese or Korean immigrants, I speak rudimentary Japanese and I'm a devout Buddhist: ergo, Asia. I'm sure I'll specialize to a more particular region later, but right now I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch.

(As a side note, I think that North America's going to go down like Rome and I would rather not be here when it happens.)

[titi monkey]

I'd go to Mexico if I could just figure out a way to sneak across the border. I hear there are job opportunities for mayors, district attorneys, and police chiefs.

[Sumwun]

Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Lately there's been a few threads/forum chatter on the topic of emigrating from America for reasons of economy and economic outlook, the loss or reduction of rights, social compatibility/belonging, etc. The thing is, you don't just pack a bag, hop on a plane to a "better" country, find a job, and then start working, etc. Most, if not all, countries have immigration laws and regulations designed to keep people out (or at least regulate the inflow of people). Those immigration laws are there to protect the citizens of their country from having their jobs taken away by foreigners. That said, it's not impossible, but emigrating does take some planning and a bit of luck. For those of you that plan on or dream of escaping from America, what are your reasons, what's your plan, and what are you doing right now to realize your dream? For those of you that have already done so, for what reasons did you leave and how did you go about it?

I plan on going to Australia to study at their vet school, since Australia gives you bonus immigration points for getting a degree from them. It's much easier to attain residency and citizenship if you have 2 years of grad school over there.

I don't think I'll be taking anybody's job. There's a shortage of vets in Australia, and it's projected to get worse. If anything, I'll be helping the Australian economy. The only real problem with my plan is that it'll take about 5 or 6 years to get from here to there with a perm visa. And it'll be like 10 years before I'm a citizen.

I just hope I don't get lined up on a wall and mowed down Nazi-style back home in the good old USA before I finish packing up
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[Paul Siraisi]

I've lived outside the US quite a bit, always in places much worse than here overall, always because my job sent me there (no expatriate job hunting).

I dream of rural England. Maybe I could be a country computer doctor? But it's just a dream. My practicalities lie elsewhere.

[Polymath20]

I can't remember where I read it but someone illustrated that EVERY country has it's problems and given world news today America doesn't look so bad.

Some areas suck, but some areas are Awesome. Also, since America is so big and exists on 2 oceans, we have pretty much ANY climate you want. Literally, I looked at a global map illustrating the various climates, and there's one (can't remember what it was called, Mediterranean Oceanic something) and literally the climate exists on the Aegean, Caspian and California.

We also have the full spectrum of religions and cultures as well as empty space for everything in between. I would love the idea of Tuscany or rural Russia, so I could just move out west to Colorado or Wyoming (the mountain side, not the plains side) and get the best of both worlds, plus Boulder is ultra-liberal, which fits in better with my attitudes (though I'm personally conservative... go figure)

The grass ain't always greener.

[Seriously]

Immigration laws? Really? As Americans we don't really get that concept since people seem to have no problem scooting over our borders and working without actually legally immigrating.
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I lived in Scotland for a year and would like to go back after my daughter graduates. Not so much for work as I have a great job here but I like the culture there. And the men are hot.

[CaelestisPeste]

Canada; it seems quaint, as long as it's not hockey season. The worst crime they have is trespassing by moose. Best to wait until hunting season to conduct vigilante justice.

[JC22]

I plan on staying in the U.S, but getting the hell out of the city. I want to move somewhere quieter, and hopefully build my own home. If all else fails, I have my sights on India and Okinawa.

See you never, you damn noisy cars/buses polluting my air, overpriced everything, delusional gang-youth, and insane neighbors blasting music at 3AM while I'm trying to get sleep to get to school the next day...

[Wilderness]

I prefer to just be international.

I'll live in the USA when I want and somewhere else when I feel like it. There's no "escaping," just the realization that different countries have different flavors.

[eagleseven]

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Literally, I looked at a global map illustrating the various climates, and there's one (can't remember what it was called, Mediterranean Oceanic something) and literally the climate exists on the Aegean, Caspian and California.

It's near San Luis Obispo. I've got family there. Never gets warmer than 85, never gets colder than 65, and edible fruit grows everywhere. It's considered the ideal human biome and is priced accordingly.

---

Nearly pulled the trigger on Australia, still have an unused visa. Found a good job in the states so lost my motivation to leave family.

[Zsych]

I'm more inclined to move to New York here
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I really like the feel of Tokyo though... but that would require preparation. I'm not planning to move somewhere while I still need a job.

[Dman1843]

Interestingly I've been having the exact same thoughts lately. For a while I thought I could just pack up and go but there are too many factors that must be considered first.

I like someone earlier would definitely love to get away from the city. The unnecessary pollution from fossil fuels and the overpopulated nature of the city just breeds incredibly sour attitudes among people here. It is just a cesspool of hedonistic self-interested people that care nothing for their fellow man or environment.

I would like to move somewhere far from any noise pollution from industry, away from any cell phone towers to avoid as many radio-waves as possible, somewhere where the winds don't funnel smog in from other cities, a place with friendly open-minded progressive people, and if I'm lucky a place that is at least within an hour or 2 driving distance from modern day hospitality ( hard to give up the convenience one was raised in) but it is not impossible to unlearn.

Haven't really done any searching for areas such as this though...might get on that soon. So far my plan to leave the city is to finish my degree (two classes left), pay off all my debt which will take me about a year and a half to do, and find a job within the one or two hour sphere.

[sircockburn]

It pisses me off how anyone can just waltz right into America and take up all the jobs, but Americans can't do that in any country with a comparable standard of living. (Any malarial area is out...I'm a mosquito magnet).

I want to get out of this country though...I might volunteer long-term abroad after I graduate, but that'd probably involve going into malarial/dengue/chikungunwa areas....

[Polymath20]

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At least, weather-wise, USA has it all. Notice how California is much like Spain, Greece and Southern Italy. Then we've got the very rare Bsk climate in Colorado/Wyoming/Nevada area.

On the map, I like how the little slice of Swiss Alps is ET <polar tundra> in the midst of the warmer, wetter europe.

And yes, it would be nice if American citizenship carried any sort of weight in any country other than our protectorates.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It pisses me off how anyone can just waltz right into America and take up all the jobs, but Americans can't do that in any country with a comparable standard of living. (Any malarial area is out...I'm a mosquito magnet). I want to get out of this country though...I might volunteer long-term abroad after I graduate, but that'd probably involve going into malarial/dengue/chikungunwa areas....

Well, if there's any consolation, the water will probably get you long before the mozzies do...

[Sumwun]

Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I can't remember where I read it but someone illustrated that EVERY country has it's problems and given world news today America doesn't look so bad. Some areas suck, but some areas are Awesome. Also, since America is so big and exists on 2 oceans, we have pretty much ANY climate you want. Literally, I looked at a global map illustrating the various climates, and there's one (can't remember what it was called, Mediterranean Oceanic something) and literally the climate exists on the Aegean, Caspian and California. We also have the full spectrum of religions and cultures as well as empty space for everything in between. I would love the idea of Tuscany or rural Russia, so I could just move out west to Colorado or Wyoming (the mountain side, not the plains side) and get the best of both worlds, plus Boulder is ultra-liberal, which fits in better with my attitudes (though I'm personally conservative... go figure) The grass ain't always greener.

Personally, I want to move because of laws hampering doctors and medical workers, as well as the inevitable police state emergence (which I hope doesn't really happen, but still).

Something as insignificant as climate and a "wide spectrum of cultures and religions" (that fear and hate outsiders anyway) isn't really compelling enough to convince me to stay, given the USA's plethora of legal/financial/government/cultural problems.

[Polymath20]

Originally Posted by Sumwun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Personally, I want to move because of laws hampering doctors and medical workers, as well as the inevitable police state emergence (which I hope doesn't really happen, but still). Something as insignificant as climate and a "wide spectrum of cultures and religions" (that fear and hate outsiders anyway) isn't really compelling enough to convince me to stay, given the USA's plethora of legal/financial/government/cultural problems.

Well, financially speaking USA is a lot better off than a lot of countries, though we are seeing compaction mainly due to competition. That said, other countries are going to see it as well.

Also, you're going to see more of a police/nanny state in a lot of other developed countries - and then of course despotism and tyranny in others. While Germany does some things I don't like, they generally pass laws to protect the citizenry more than America, whereas America tends to protect business.

In terms of cultural problems - yes some Americans are racist and xenophobic but this happens all across other cultures. In many places ethnic divides run very deep - even in leading economies. Racism runs rampant through many european countries, but this is fueled in part because they deal with refugees more than America. Sometimes, refugees are angry and violent and refuse to adapt to their new home, whereas immigrants in America want to adapt because they want to fit in.

Australia has it's own version of the Great Firewall, which to me makes it far more of a police state than America.

All that said I wouldn't mind having a house in Costa Rica or something.

[Purgatid]

Due to my governments acts of high treason, I have considered getting the fuck out of here. But there's nowhere to go for me. No nation other than this one where I'd like to live.

[Reddkatz]

Sweden or Switzerland for me. They seem a little more lax with some medical practices like birth control, and stem cell researches. I may change my mind and go into research and I wouldn't mind doing it on stem cells.

[Still Standing]

I've considered escaping from Canada for a while and travelled in several Latin-American countries to potentially find a new home (or at least a place I'd want to call home for a few years), and I've also come to the conclusion that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Many places are interesting to visit for a few weeks but would most likely be a nightmare to live in. And "starting over" is not easy, even if you move to a place with similar living conditions to the place you're leaving. Gotta find a new job, new home, new social network, new service providers of all types (doctor, financial planner, etc.), and you're pretty much alone to work through whatever social, cultural and practical hurdles you face in the process. These things are probably easier to accept and deal with when you're escaping a really shitty place to be living in and figure than your own health, safety and survival are worth the risks and sacrifices involved in moving to a potentially better place.

	Originally Posted by Dman1843 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would like to move somewhere far from any noise pollution from industry, away from any cell phone towers to avoid as many radio-waves as possible, somewhere where the winds don't funnel smog in from other cities, a place with friendly open-minded progressive people, and if I'm lucky a place that is at least within an hour or 2 driving distance from modern day hospitality.

You realize that people who do the 2-to-4-hour daily commute largely contribute to the pollution that they're trying to escape? And unless they have the possibility of working from home, they get little time to actually enjoy their friendly, unpolluted haven.