[MONADANOM]

Not particularly interested, especially dealing with the 'illegal' aspect.
BUT: I sometimes think that the members of my social group who were active users seem to have had fewer permanent bruises than I've accrued by facing things head on, keeping a stiff upper lip, yada, yada.
Drugs can play Old Man Coyote and really fritz you up when you think you're crusing along just fine. And sometimes they just take the edge off and make things bearable. Who knows, everybody's different.

[Sumwun]

I would try marijuana for fun, but that's it. I wouldn't even touch cigarettes, and only alcohol for an occasional sip of wine, but never to get drunk.

[INTJV]

Caffeine and alcohol for me, thanks. Were they legal, I can imagine doing the organic ones on a rare occasion. It's been over a decade since I've last had MJ and it either made me stupid and giggly, or completely zonked me out and made me paranoid. Maybe I'd skip the MJ.

Different types of alcohol have different effects on me, and I've tried just about all of them. I'm most happy with a few nice microbrews, which make me chill out even more and get a little silly. I'm the (apparently elusive) happy drunk.
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[Bevan]

	Originally Posted by Plaprad To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As for the rest....maybe shrooms, but that would probably be the extent of it.

Psilocybin mushrooms, though they grow naturally, are not without risk. Parts of them are toxic, and there have been reports of kidney damage caused by their use. There are many varieties of mushrooms that look practically identical to the untrained eye. If I ever took one again I would be careful about its origin. Unfortunately, in the world of street drugs trial-and-error is often the rule. If a bad batch of shrooms started circulating, a few unfortunate individuals would serve as lab rats.

In fact, the whole psilocybin mushroom is toxic, but I have a friend who grew up in South Georgia, where they are abundant at certain times of the year, who will consume only the cap. He says the parts closer to the ground are dangerous. He prefers to consume only mushrooms he has harvested himself, or by someone he trusts. I am not providing this information to suggest there is a completely safe way to do it. I just want people to know about the risks involved in doing shrooms.

[sevans]

Did anyone else watch Weed Wars tonight on Discovery Channel? Pretty good if you ask me, pretty sure Discovery is backing the cause on this one.

[Bevan]

Originally Posted by dennisevans To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm bipolar dude, don't think of it as a disease, think of it as an obstacle. I'm on no medications, have generally good control over it, don't allow myself to get into situations where I might fall into another swing. It's 100% mind over matter. I used to think that the only way to deal with being bipolar, depressed, or my anxiety was to take medication, it wasn't in fact it only made me worse for longer. I relied on it as a crutch, I didn't take the necessary steps to control my moods, thoughts, and functions no instead I just said, "this is who I am, and I have to live with it." My man, get your head right in your head not just with the meds. They'll kill you long before stress ever will, you need to find inner peace, find what you believe, find what is absolutely real to you even if other people think you're a wacked out nut job. My closest friends respect the insane shit I come up with, I'm an idea guy, I can't be artistically creative but there's something about the way I think that makes my friends want to know what's on my mind regarding nearly every subject. Just chill out, I'd say smoke a bit of the herb and sit back and enjoy it, but it's not my job to tell you what to do in your life. If you have an interest in trying it, I'd advise you to absolutely try it, it was life changing for me it was lifesaving for me.

Hey dennisevans, I respect your approach to the obstacle. You are free to choose what you put in your body, and free to refuse any chemical that you find not to be in your best interests. I can only say that dealing with the obstacle is extremely tricky for anyone who is faced with it. For instance, lithium has to be started at a specific point in the bipolar cycle or the results can be disastrous. Not all doctors know about that aspect of lithium therapy. My mother was given lithium a few years ago and the result was one of the worst bipolar episodes she ever suffered through, and required hospitalisation. Lithium is also extremely toxic, and can be lethal if not managed properly. To be brutally honest, the best any physician can do to treat manic depression is the use of trial-and-error. It has taken me years to learn what medications work best for me, and what side effects I can tolerate.

I agree totally that maintaining a healthy, positive mental and spiritual outlook is absolutely necessary, whether or not the manic-depressive takes prescription drugs. Studying Buddhist philosophy and psychology in my youth was tremendously helpful. I have often thought I would already be dead if I had not learned how important it is to take a look at my own mind, and be continuously aware of what is going on in there. There is no doubt that people think I am a whacked out nut job even when I am on my best behaviour, but what is real to me is truly real. I have had experiences, not dreams, delusions or hallucinations, that would blow your f*cking mind. There is something about being bipolar that makes me open to unusual phenomena, and in that way it is a gift.

The problem is most of us manic-depressives are not free to drift around and enjoy being ourselves. We have to function in society, we have to make it. A bad bipolar episode is a shitstorm from the lowest depths hell, and can seriously disrupt school or work, or any and every damn thing. By the time you realise you are in trouble everything is already f*cked.

To the topic, getting off pharmaceuticals and smoking a little herb instead is an attractive option. It would be another round of trial-and-error, but I wouldn't mind trying it. There is no cure.

[Chronicsleeper]

No.

I'm not stupid.

I love my brain too much.

Plus I'm pretty much taking drug free acid trips every time I fall asleep, so no need for actual ones.

[EstmatedProphet]

Marijuana is the only thing that's really helped my depression and anxiety. I've tried all sorts of SSRIs, SNRIs, Wellbutrin, Risperdal, etc. but weed is the only thing that's ever worked. I think my main problem is I my brain is way too active and when I'm high I don't have so many thoughts going on at the same time (it really helps my ADD) and I just feel content so that also helps keep all the random negative thoughts at bay. Also, I've found psychedelics to be very helpful for learning about myself. They allow for very deep introspection and allow you to see things from perspectives you wouldn't normally be able to.

[Karatekel]

I see no benefit in doing drugs. I'm not going to do something that doesn't grant me anything I value and runs the risk of jail time if I get caught.

[Grimace]

Long time weed smoker, and yeah, it has its drawbacks, but with proper management is enjoyable.


tried MDMA a few times, and when its the real stuff, really loved it, amazing drug tbh, though certainly something you shouldn't do that often.


Not into hallucinogenics, too worried about my mind dissolving.

[exxcomm]

Massively chronic (weed).

As cited before it has it's drawbacks if left un-managed, but otherwise can incite more introspective contemplation of future actions (thinking, THEN acting) and in certain circumstances very intensive study focus (as long as the interest in the subject is already there).

Alcohol I can take or leave, but imbibe about bi-weekly.

Speed (coke, crack, crank, amphetamines) has its place, but should be employed for short intensive projects with a concrete end time ONLY, or else "just ONE more!" becomes too easy.

Opiates are K, but since I've only recreation-ally smoked opium and I don't feel much different despite the pleasant flavour, I've no real base of experience.

Psychotropics are fun and mentally expanding, and some (most natural) are self limiting to deter chronic use. But if large enough dosages to experience effect are used chronically it WILL blaze new 15 lane freeways through your mental processes with exit/entry ramps every 3 feet.
You will constantly get lost while thinking.

Prescribed pharms over 2+ weeks for a compound fracture of the femur are the thing that most totaled my mental processes (perhaps the accident had induced some minor brain swelling). Drip Demerol for all that time and then cold turkey after discharge made me absolutely stupid for at least the next 3 1/2 weeks after and an extreme bitch for the first 1 1/2 weeks. I'm still not convinced I'm @ 100% of where I was.

Drugs have their place or else the receptors for them wouldn't already be in our brains.
It's for you to choose where that place is, how often you go there, what going there will accomplish, and if the accomplishment is worth the risk since most all endeavor invites the possibility of risk.

[sevans]

Originally Posted by exxcomm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Prescribed pharms over 2+ weeks for a compound fracture of the femur are the thing that most totaled my mental processes (perhaps the accident had induced some minor brain swelling). Drip Demerol for all that time and then cold turkey after discharge made me absolutely stupid for at least the next 3 1/2 weeks after and an extreme bitch for the first 1 1/2 weeks. I'm still not convinced I'm @ 100% of where I was.

Pain killers are pretty interesting. I was told that as long as I was in pain and using them for the purpose of reducing the pain, I would not get addicted. I continued use after the pain had gone, infrequently, but in increasing doses once the pain stopped. I every once in a while have the urge to get that "melty" feeling that they gave me, I have not indulged for a long while, but it's definitely an interesting experience.

Also, I'm pretty sure I saw a pic a while back with the comparisons of brain scans of people watching TV and using cocaine, and they were pretty near identical. Just an interesting thought.

[Fujimoto]

I have tried drugs, and at this point in my life I choose not to do them.

Marijuana was nice and all, but I was the guy that sparked up and got really stupid. I never was a social animal to begin with, so when I got lit, it was like I couldn't speak. Mind was too absorbed in thoughts, had no desire to have a coherent conversation.

I've tried stimulants. Bad idea. Took a little too much one time, had a panic attack, thought I was dying. That stuff can easily kill you if you don't know what you're doing. Never touching it again.

I've never tried hallucinogens. I have extremely vivid dreams, and tend to remember at least portions of each one. My fear is that if I took a hallucinogen, I would start to see weird shit in real life and have no way of "turning it off" like waking up.

[thod]

	There are many varieties of mushrooms that look practically identical to the untrained eye. If I ever took one again I would be careful about its origin.

I have been out picking on many occasions, they are very easy to identify. Most mushrooms are not poisonous. I have a friend that forages all sorts. Psilocybe semilanceata is difficult to mistake. It has a nipple on top and grows in grassland. The only other one even close is psilocybe montana, which you soon learn to differentiate and is not poisonous anyhow. You do not so much find single shrooms as groups of them. When you spot one, you search around and you will find twenty within a few feet. They used to grow all around the place I went to college and the students would go pick them. There were incidents of intoxicated students but never one case of poisoning. The first time I picked, I went with a buddy to be sure. After the first few you cannot mistake them.

[Zodd]

Too see no benefit in drugs is really weird.

With hallucinogens there are incredible stories found on the internet. They can backfire massively but too say there is no benefit? You must not like thrills, learning, serenity, chaos, feeling one with friends/objects/the universe/animals/music.

With weed you hear you feel mellow, laidback, thinking in different ways. Not interesting?

MDMA you hear you feel very comfortable and free in the material world like never experienced before.

etc.

And everybody experiences something else. There are thousands of stories that are very different with the same drug.

It's just crazy too say you don't see a benefit.

[cuziamthecaptai]

So *hypothetically* (let’s say this is just a thought experiment)

Let’s suppose I’m an avid INTJ looking to delve into psychedelics for therapeutic reasons. Maybe I have issues in my past that I’d like to work through. Although there’s a lot of research suggesting that psychedelics such as mushrooms and MDMA are safe and effective there is nary a therapist willing to guide me, unless I’m part of a clinical study (none of which are currently occurring).

My ESFP neighbor and I are on friendly terms (mostly due to our proximity). He can get me the mushrooms but wants me to wait for him to have a day off, so that he could serve as a guide. He mentioned driving me around, showing me different sights and such.

Problem is that on the infrequent occasion that I smoke pot with him, as soon as I get high, my instinct is to go into my room, turn off the lights, and listen to music. Also, I really don’t like drinking as I don’t like the body sensations—and it may be a control issue. I’m okay drinking enough to have a buzz but the idea of just being drunk does nothing for me.

My fear is that I take mushrooms and that I’ll want to just spend the time by myself or hide in the safety of my room. Meanwhile, my ESFP housemate will want to take me to some light show or hangout with me.

I do have another option—I have an INFP friend – she’s a bit of a space cadet but I trust her. But she does the psychedelics rather infrequently.

I guess my question is—if I’m an INTJ just looking to take psychedelics to broaden my horizons, and I don’t particularly like feeling out of control or over-exposed, should I have an ESFP as a guide?

Or in general, are there recommendations for taking psychedelics that apply to the INTJ?

[elTee13]

No. I don't like to lose control of my inhibitions.

[Aklis]

Normally, I'd prefer to stick to a small glass of alcohol and maybe, on occasion, smoke a cigar. There have been times when I've been so bored out of my mind that I have contemplated drugs, though.

[Posthuman]

I've tryed marijuana a few times and i must say i am not impressed... Drugs dont enhance your thinking if you can already think in abstract ways without filters, as INTJ i find drugs unnecessary. The only exception to this would DMT. I would try that if i could get it into my sytem cleanly and without much consequences. For the most part that is because i liked lucid dreams and even though i am this MBTI i find the world of mind important.

[Savant]

I'm unsure if legality is really the main factor with regard to safety.

[Hamsta]

I don't smoke or drink, and those are legal. I don't drink coffee either, but I have no problem with Mountain Dew and such.

To do the illegal stuff I would have to overcome my fears of losing control, causing acute and chronic health problems, associating with unsavory characters, risking arrest and wasting money, and all for the good ol' college try? No thanks.

I find this whole organic vs. synthetic argument interesting. On one hand it makes sense that a drug occurring in a plant would be less concentrated than something specifically made for the purpose in a beaker, but on the other, I'd feel safer experimenting with MDMA than I would with Ricin.

[SeverusSin]

Originally Posted by Daria To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Legal or illegal means little to me. And one drug is very distinctive from another, so it's a little frustrating when people sort of slop them all together. I, personally, have never gone beyond caffeine, alcohol, or pot (Except for one prescribed narcotic after a surgery, but that hardly counts.), and I don't have any intention of going beyond alcohol or pot. I can't imagine anyone feeling much of a need to after you've experienced both. They're very different experiences, and either one should satisfy anyone's desire to knock down their walls of reality, so to speak. As far as mind-altering, I felt after I tried them both that I was brainwashed to believe that they were far more severe than they were, haha, being a D.A.R.E. essay contest winner, overachiever, and all that. And I can tell by reading some of these responses that some of you have probably been exposed to the same... "training", hah. If anything, alcohol is far more dangerous than weed, and alcohol can become an addiction if you overdo it. Pot is another story. At least with weed, you still have your motor skills, your judgement is the same, you only feel... happier, hah, y'know? Suddenly food tastes better, sex feels better, bad movies become great movies, and you will EXPERIENCE light, color, and music and it will feel like it's coursing through your body in the most magnificent way, and time slows down, and your mind can make abstractions without limitations of reality as you've known it. And by distorting your reality and your perception of time, it really does change the way you perceive the world around you after trying it. But after you come down, you'll be completely back to normal. I could go on and on about how it changed my perception of time, but anyway, I've only tried it maybe... 4 times? 5? I don't do it regularly because they drug test the students in my program pretty frequently, so I stick to alcohol most of the time if I absolutely feel the need to unwind and detach from the mundane world for a bit. I'd say I drink about 3 beers once a week. Nothing big. But I won't deny myself pleasurable experiences of any sort, be that drugs or... base jumping, or anything that doesn't put anyone else in any threat of danger, just because someone tells me not to. To anyone who hasn't at least tried alcohol or weed at the VERY least, it's absolutely your right to pass it up, but I promise you if you tried it once, you'll see it's nothing to be afraid of. Be careful with alcohol though. You can't really go overboard with pot, but alcohol is a slippery slope. Just control your environment, and don't be a dipshit and drive. Jeez, I feel like I'm back in high school giving "the talk" to my abstinence friends, hah. Anyway, that's my take on it. What makes a legal drug any different from an illegal one? Always question authority. Experience things, experiment with life and reality. What was it that Ms. Frizzle always said in The Magic School Bus? "Take chances! Make mistakes! Get messy!"

I keep it non-synthetic and limited to cannabis and alcohol. I wouldn't mind trying psychadelics like mushrooms and such. My philosophy is very much the same as in Daria's post. Many drugs are stigmatised as a deterrence but aren't as bad as made out. This was my experience with weed when I first started smoking it, I thought I was going to be sent into a dreamworld of being "high" but the high itself is quite subtle, allowing you to maintain things like motor skills (if you haven't smoke too much) and such in comparison to alcohol which directly affects balance and reflexes.

[kalieldriel]

	Originally Posted by Masslessxphoton To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have/would you try illegal drugs? Why or why not?

I've done every drug known to man... seriously, even meth (though it's been 10 years since I've touched it and I only did it for a couple of weeks, seriously nasty shit). It's been several years since I've touched ANY illegal drug, ecstasy being the last a couple of NYE's ago, and Xanax or Codeine being the last legal, given to me within the last year and half or so by my boyfriend. I still miss smoking pot, eating weird shit, watching t.v. or doing something amazingly creative.

So yes, I've tried illegal drugs. In my mind I had nothing to lose and that anti-drug statements were merely propaganda.

I will not be going back to any of them. Ever. It began with getting a job and ended up a career.

I've now been vomited on by a person overdosing on heroin while I'm trying to intubate (yes, I am aware that if I made them gag they obviously didn't require intubation), I've been swung on by a junkie coming out of an overdose after being injected with Narcan, I've worked on a 14 year old in full arrest from synthetic pot, a 15 year old in full arrest from heroin, and a 7 year old girl who accidentally drank chemicals in her Aunt's meth lab. I've seen children crying/screaming for their parents in handcuffs knowing full well the parent cared more about any drug than that child who loved them unconditionally.

I've watched a very intelligent, well-educated man lose everything, his wife, children, home, and job, to meth. He knew better. He thought the it was all propaganda, too, and if he was aware that the rules didn't apply.

It's not worth it to me to risk... as much as I love all of the different highs and sensations, and how good they feel. And I've been on both sides of the law. I know from experience that they're watching you and know what you're doing long before you'd ever think they'd know about you. Jail isn't worth it, my life isn't worth it, and neither is anything else I hold dear.

[AnnaMolly]

No, never tried, not interested at all.

a) I'm on my way to becoming a doctor and doing anything illegal could seriously ruin that for me.
b) I'm not willingly risking my health, sanity and a possible addiction.
c) I don't like "losing my mind", even shortly. I'm creative and open-minded enough for my liking without drugs.
d) I don't think drugs are "cool", I pity people who use. Watch Requiem for a Dream.

[Sk8ordude]

For me its about thinking different thoughts, exploring and getting to know my mind to a greater extent then many people are brave enough to go. I do all sorts of sober things in pursuit of understanding, I meditate in different ways, I read all sorts of shit. I've trained myself to guide and remember my dreams. Just like the deep sea and space, its uncharted territory that needs explored by brave men and women, that will put it all on the line. Perhaps one day my psychonautical adventures will be of benefit to my peers, perhaps not. Fearlessly exploring the voids of one of the most complicated machines known to man, finding its limits, uncovering its potential, thats my passion. And venturing beyond societies self confining barrior known as taboo, well that just makes it all the better in a dirty sort of way, which is just how I like it.