Why does it seem ENFPs are more in touch with their values than ESFPs?

**ALAMGIR** · 10-29-2011, 07:41 PM

why is that?

**reckful** · 10-29-2011, 08:10 PM

As a point of clarification, is there a particular variety of "values" that it seems to you that ENFPs are more in touch with?

If you're talking about the kind of "moral values" that someone is a "bad person" if they violate, I don't know that I'd expect an ENFP to be any more or less moral than an ESFP.

If you're talking about a more positive kind of personal values ("these are my values, but they may not be yours, which is OK"), I'd just note that, with respect to at least one subset of those — namely, what you might call help-make-the-world-better humanitarian kinds of values — NFs are generally considered the types most likely to be concerned with those.

**JulietCapulet** · 11-01-2011, 07:58 PM

Because we are intuitive.

And they are not.

**joliet** · 11-01-2011, 11:30 PM

Ns - sees big picture about time and effect. Ns have values because they see the following consequences of doing something against their values, or the metaphysical rewards of following their values. Ss are more in the moment, and it's harder for them to immediately connect an action to an effect. Sometimes I just go by textbook and say to myself, "NFs are idealists. ESFPs are performers. That is that."

**Sean O** · 11-02-2011, 10:36 AM

Since when are an ENFP's values the only valid kind of values - at least compared to an ESFP, and especially compared to sensors in general? They're just as in touch with their values as ENFPs or any other type, they just have values that are more aligned with their overall type preferences (which is true of all types anyway).

ENFPs are Ne-dominant, so their value systems are oriented towards harmony and justice from a more global, interconnected perspective. ESFPs are Se-dominant, so their value systems are oriented towards harmony and justice from a more in-the-moment, visceral experience perspective. And there's nothing wrong with that - that's why these types both have different strengths when it comes to utilizing their Fi. Using these differences as an excuse to create type-based "hierarchies" is missing the whole point of the MBTI.

**JackCY** · 11-02-2011, 10:43 AM

If it's even possible to talk about this as I can't see any proofs.
N - big picture, future
S - in the moment

they both have values just different ones
maybe for other Ns it seems like ENFPs have "better" values than ESFPs

**benr3600** · 11-02-2011, 11:40 AM

I agree, it could be confirmation bias. We are more likely to agree with our own similarities than characteristics that aren't shared with us. That probably has a lot to do with it.

**aravis** · 07-12-2012, 12:35 PM

NFs = values people. I'd recommend checking out an MBTI book.

**Polymath20** · 07-12-2012, 12:43 PM

N's tend to think more, and would ascribe words and values and symbols to their beliefs - articulating a feeling or moral value can help make it more concrete whereas a Sensor would simply experience the emotion of "That is wrong" or "I shouldn't do that" and would not instinctively attempt to ascribe meaning to the emotion.

**Distance** · 07-12-2012, 12:46 PM

Nope. The difference is that ESFPs are less invasive since they don't have any Si.

**Polymath20** · 07-12-2012, 12:53 PM

NF = If I give you a fish, you don't learn anything, but I'll teach you how to fish because I care.

SF = Fishies!!! WOOoo!

**davai** · 07-12-2012, 01:25 PM

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	N's tend to think more, and would ascribe words and values and symbols to their beliefs - articulating a feeling or moral value can help make it more concrete whereas a Sensor would simply experience the emotion of "That is wrong" or "I shouldn't do that" and would not instinctively attempt to ascribe meaning to the emotion.

	Originally Posted by Polymath20 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	NF = If I give you a fish, you don't learn anything, but I'll teach you how to fish because I care. SF = Fishies!!! WOOoo!

For someone who doesn't even know their own type you sure pull a lot of shit out of your ass about other people's.

**jndiii** · 07-12-2012, 02:53 PM

One way to put it is that ENFPs (and INFPs) tend to define themselves in terms of their values and think about their values. ESFPs and ISFPs also have strong values, but are more inclined to act on them, not merely think about them.

**Distance** · 07-12-2012, 03:02 PM

	Originally Posted by jndiii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One way to put it is that ENFPs (and INFPs) tend to define themselves in terms of their values and think about their values. ESFPs and ISFPs also have strong values, but are more inclined to act on them, not merely think about them.

Not as simple as that. The swapping of the dom-inferior through battle, creates a different feel to them. Inferior Si lashes out, insistent of sameness. Inferior Ni will cause outward ESFP to retreat within self.

**scorpiomover** · 07-12-2012, 04:21 PM

Because lots of NTs regularly report they don't have a clue what is going on in the minds of Sensors. Many NTs even seem to think that Sensors don't think at all. So you probably don't understand how ESFPs are in touch with their values, because you don't understand Sensors.

ESFPs are like all Sensors.

If you want to understand ESFPs, you need to look at how they conduct the overall patterns of their lives, not what they say, or what they are doing right now. It's all part of an intuitively understood master plan.

**Apricots** · 07-13-2012, 02:17 PM

NFs are idealists. We're values-based people.

Being intuitive means we reflect more on what our values mean, and what they should be. Being feelers helps us understand others so we know where our values place us in relation to others.

I'm sure SFs can have strong values too, but they probably reach them through different thought patterns than NFs.

10-29-2011, 07:41 PM	#1
ALAMGIR Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 325	why is that?
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10-29-2011, 08:10 PM	#2
reckful Core Member [533%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 21,351	As a point of clarification, is there a particular variety of "values" that it seems to you that ENFPs are more in touch with? If you're talking about the kind of "moral values" that someone is a "bad person" if they violate, I don't know that I'd expect an ENFP to be any more or less moral than an ESFP. If you're talking about a more positive kind of personal values ("these are my values, but they may not be yours, which is OK"), I'd just note that, with respect to at least one subset of those — namely, what you might call help-make-the-world-better humanitarian kinds of values — NFs are generally considered the types most likely to be concerned with those.
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11-01-2011, 07:58 PM	#3
JulietCapulet Veteran Member [96%] MBTI: XNFX Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,865	Because we are intuitive. And they are not.
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11-01-2011, 11:30 PM	#4
joliet Member [15%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 602	Ns - sees big picture about time and effect. Ns have values because they see the following consequences of doing something against their values, or the metaphysical rewards of following their values. Ss are more in the moment, and it's harder for them to immediately connect an action to an effect. Sometimes I just go by textbook and say to myself, "NFs are idealists. ESFPs are performers. That is that."
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11-02-2011, 10:36 AM	#5
Sean O Member [20%] MBTI: ENFJ Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 830	Since when are an ENFP's values the only valid kind of values - at least compared to an ESFP, and especially compared to sensors in general? They're just as in touch with their values as ENFPs or any other type, they just have values that are more aligned with their overall type preferences (which is true of all types anyway). ENFPs are Ne-dominant, so their value systems are oriented towards harmony and justice from a more global, interconnected perspective. ESFPs are Se-dominant, so their value systems are oriented towards harmony and justice from a more in-the-moment, visceral experience perspective. And there's nothing wrong with that - that's why these types both have different strengths when it comes to utilizing their Fi. Using these differences as an excuse to create type-based "hierarchies" is missing the whole point of the MBTI.
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11-02-2011, 10:43 AM	#6
JackCY Core Member [107%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,309	If it's even possible to talk about this as I can't see any proofs. N - big picture, future S - in the moment they both have values just different ones maybe for other Ns it seems like ENFPs have "better" values than ESFPs
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11-02-2011, 11:40 AM	#7
benr3600 Member [28%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,131	I agree, it could be confirmation bias. We are more likely to agree with our own similarities than characteristics that aren't shared with us. That probably has a lot to do with it.
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07-12-2012, 12:35 PM	#8
aravis New Member [01%] MBTI: ENFP Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 2	NFs = values people. I'd recommend checking out an MBTI book.
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07-12-2012, 12:43 PM	#9
Polymath20 Core Member [410%] MBTI: ENTP Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 16,430	N's tend to think more, and would ascribe words and values and symbols to their beliefs - articulating a feeling or moral value can help make it more concrete whereas a Sensor would simply experience the emotion of "That is wrong" or "I shouldn't do that" and would not instinctively attempt to ascribe meaning to the emotion.
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07-12-2012, 12:46 PM	#10
Distance Core Member [409%] MBTI: eNTj Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 16,399	Nope. The difference is that ESFPs are less invasive since they don't have any Si.
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07-12-2012, 12:53 PM	#11
Polymath20 Core Member [410%] MBTI: ENTP Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 16,430	NF = If I give you a fish, you don't learn anything, but I'll teach you how to fish because I care. SF = Fishies!!! WOOoo!
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07-12-2012, 02:53 PM	#13
jndiii Core Member [131%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,268	One way to put it is that ENFPs (and INFPs) tend to define themselves in terms of their values and think about their values. ESFPs and ISFPs also have strong values, but are more inclined to act on them, not merely think about them.
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07-12-2012, 04:21 PM	#15
scorpiomover Core Member [109%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 4,368	Because lots of NTs regularly report they don't have a clue what is going on in the minds of Sensors. Many NTs even seem to think that Sensors don't think at all. So you probably don't understand how ESFPs are in touch with their values, because you don't understand Sensors. ESFPs are like all Sensors. If you want to understand ESFPs, you need to look at how they conduct the overall patterns of their lives, not what they say, or what they are doing right now. It's all part of an intuitively understood master plan.
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07-13-2012, 02:17 PM	#16
Apricots Member [04%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 176	NFs are idealists. We're values-based people. Being intuitive means we reflect more on what our values mean, and what they should be. Being feelers helps us understand others so we know where our values place us in relation to others. I'm sure SFs can have strong values too, but they probably reach them through different thought patterns than NFs.
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