[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by Erebos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And why is C awful? Because your little brains can't understand it?

Pretty much. COBOL is awesome because it is simple. There is beauty in simplicity. Steve Jobs understood that. Many techies fall in love with complication.

[froyo]

What makes Steve Job's accomplishments any less worthy than the other two's? Just because he didn't create something as intellectual as the C programming language?

Steve Jobs is more famous than the other two because Jobs was a marketing tool himself. Who doesn't like to see a cool tech-savvy CEO extolling the greatness of his products? The other two had no need to do that and I'm sure they could care less about being famous with everyone.

[stormseeker]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Pretty much. COBOL is awesome because it is simple. There is beauty in simplicity. Steve Jobs understood that. Many techies fall in love with complication.

I don't have anything useful to say about C vs COBOL since I am not a programmer. But on the subject of simplicity I can totally agree with this.

I was guilty of making everything I did in the enterprise IT environment or the average home network complex. In the last few years I have changed my philosophy about IT in general to keeping it simple.

There is no glory in creating or maintaining complex systems- at least that has been my experience.

[froyo]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Pretty much. COBOL is awesome because it is simple. There is beauty in simplicity. Steve Jobs understood that. Many techies fall in love with complication.

I agree with your claim. Steve Jobs made technology "cool". I disagree with the C vs. COBOL analogy. No one cares about COBOL.

[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by froyo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I agree with your claim. Steve Jobs made technology "cool". I disagree with the C vs. COBOL analogy. No one cares about COBOL.

I care.
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I'm convinced the reason COBOL doesn't get more respect is just plain sexism..... but that's another thread.


[HIDE="Simplicity....."]
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[/HIDE]

[crea]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think Steve Jobs was brilliant. He came up with ways to make computers useful and fun.

he didn't move a finger.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He was not a technical genius, but he was able to make other people's technical genius actually worth something to regular people.

it's like stealing someone's photograph, post it on facebook and claim as yours, isn't it? he didn't ever give any credit to the person who actually came up with the idea. so... in ways of morality his image is kinda bad, don't you think?

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Apple had different fonts because Steve Jobs sat in on a calligraphy class at Reed College.

aaaand came up with most disgusting aaaand worst fonts ever made. I can actually see this as his creation...

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Apple jumped on the mouse and GUI interface that Xerox didn't know what to do with.

and now finally people realize how much they lack the will to be the "bosses of their own life", because they can't even order their computers around even if they wanned to, because apparently, someone has already figured how you will want your computer to be, look and work.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Apple jumped on firewire. It jumped on video editing.

firewire was being used in video editing long before Apple "jumped" on it.
(edit: even through we know that apple actually designed the IEEE 1394 interface in 1995, but it was invented for the data transferring. a lot of companies in short time adapted the interface and used it for A/V applications. in time apple realized that they made quite an adaptable interface and "took it back", making it another commercial play-toy to attract customers.)

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	iTunes was the first successful platform to legally sell music downloads.

first online music store was "Ritmoteca" founded in 1998.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The iPod was one of the first to successfully make an MP3 player for the masses.

Sony would like to have a talk with you. (hint; Walkman)

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The iPhone was a totally new way to integrate web-surfing and an MP3 player into a cell phone.

my Nokia 3650 could already do that in 2002.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Steve had a genius in product design. True genius.

and his name was not Steve Jobs.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Having said that, around the turn of the century I bought some Apple products and I thought they were buggy. Now I wait for the people who copy Apple who aren't on the bleeding edge and I find I have fewer problems with things not working.

probably because you are unable to realize that no one (Nokia, Siemens, Motorola, HTC) is copying Apple. they are all creating and doing things their own way. for example, power-users still use Symbian or WM because it allows them to do what they want to do with their phones.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the world would be a much worse place if Steve Jobs had not existed. How many people can you say that about? I think he really did change the world.

he pushed some limits - that's true. oh wait, I said he, sorry for that. he didn't make anything tech related. ever. except those ugly fonts. probably.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And C is an awful programming language. Grace Hopper deserves more credit for being one of the main ones to come up with COBOL.

we are talking real world, real life here.

[stormseeker]

	Originally Posted by crea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	my Nokia 3650 could already do that in 2002..

That phone was not around at the time... that aside I was never much of a Nokia fan.

[Erebos]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I care. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I'm convinced the reason COBOL doesn't get more respect is just plain sexism..... but that's another thread. [HIDE="Simplicity....."] To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [/HIDE]

Simplicity? Then why did your god create MAC os and iOS on c language? Why did he create his OS based on Berkley Unix and didn't give credits to other people? His "new technology" is nothing more than old ideas and old inventions. He can only steal them and present as his own I'm sick of listening to his OR his fanboys talking about this "new" technology I've seen years ago. It's just stupid. Just yesterday I talked to some Korean boy who thinks apple invented computer mice.

---------- Post added 10-28-2011 at 04:55 AM ----------

Oh, Anak, why didn't you answer my questions?

Ah. cream said what I wanted to say :D

---------- Post added 10-28-2011 at 05:05 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by stormseeker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That phone was not around at the time... that aside I was never much of a Nokia fan.

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I don't know about Nokia, but my old samsung d900 had a very good mp3 player in 2006.

[Nonsuch]

	Originally Posted by froyo To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I agree with your claim. Steve Jobs made technology "cool". I disagree with the C vs. COBOL analogy. No one cares about COBOL.

I don't know about the merits of C, but a substantial number of banking systems still use COBOL today. And I'll bet many of those who switched out their mainframe systems for a more modern one now regret it.

[crea]

	Originally Posted by stormseeker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That phone was not around at the time... that aside I was never much of a Nokia fan.

if I wouldn't have had bought it the first day when it came up, well, maybe then you'd be right.
you can check with Nokia and google for when it was released.

[nacht]

C is relatively simple. C++ is a whole 'nother ballgame.

---------- Post added 10-28-2011 at 06:09 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by crea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	he didn't move a finger.

You really need to prove this assertion rather than just repeating yourself.

People have short memories. Out of vague curiosity, do you have any knowledge of what Apple was doing in 1995 and what changed in 1996? Or seen
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?

I do remember that time. I also know that there is a reason people applaud after he says "some mistakes will be made along the way. That's good, because at least some decisions are being made along the way." That reason has nothing to do with his famed Reality Distortion Field.

[Lucius]

	Originally Posted by Thinker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am always fascinated by this binary argument. It is why engineers and technical people are generally poor entrepreneurs. You can have simply the best (technical) product available, but other (technically) lesser products sell millions more. Business is much more than a "better mousetrap". Steve Jobs understood this.

There's a reason why theyre poor, heck, quality and ability is directly proportional to it's cost. That being said, I have no idea why you are trolling on this topic when one could easily see how inversely proportional apple products are.

Business is the Ability to deceive morons into spending more money than worth on a piece of junk.

[Erebos]

Originally Posted by nacht To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

C is relatively simple. C++ is a whole 'nother ballgame. ---------- Post added 10-28-2011 at 06:09 AM ---------- You really need to prove this assertion rather than just repeating yourself. People have short memories. Out of vague curiosity, do you have any knowledge of what Apple was doing in 1995 and what changed in 1996? Or seen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ? I do remember that time. I also know that there is a reason people applaud after he says "some mistakes will be made along the way. That's good, because at least some decisions are being made along the way." That reason has nothing to do with his famed Reality Distortion Field.

c++ is a bitch. ANd the most funniest thing is then you learn it you think "damn, that is SO SIMPLE!!! Why didn't I get it before?"

And i NOTICED he NEWER ANSWERED THE QUESTION!!! He just talks what crowd want to hear. He is a good manipulator, he is a good businessman but what technology did he create?

[Sinequanon]

	Originally Posted by crea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	huge apple circlejerk.

It's still a circle jerk if you're facing out instead of facing in.

[nacht]

	Originally Posted by Erebos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	c++ is a bitch. ANd the most funniest thing is then you learn it you think "damn, that is SO SIMPLE!!! Why didn't I get it before?"

Under no definition is C++ "simple." Evinced by how long it took clang to get there or any ISO feature list for it. Let alone
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.

	And i NOTICED he NEWER ANSWERED THE QUESTION!!! He just talks what crowd want to hear.

He did not answer the direct question of "please justify x vs. y," but it was not his place to do so at his level in the company. Instead, he laid out a vision, which has always been the claim of what Jobs brought.

[elsdfr]

...and Gates 'stole' Basic... history and the victor?

End of the 'innovators', begining of the ... Corporates

[Erebos]

	Originally Posted by nacht To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Under no definition is C++ "simple." Evinced by how long it took clang to get there or any ISO feature list for it. Let alone To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .

No, it's not simple, but once you get some stuff you understand it was simpler than you thought at first.

	Originally Posted by nacht To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He did not answer the direct question of "please justify x vs. y," but it was not his place to do so at his level in the company. Instead, he laid out a vision, which has always been the claim of what Jobs brought.

And who asked for vision? Worker asked something about Java and what he personally DID. no one asked for some vision. This is what I mean by saying he was a good businessman - who could fool idiots and get out without answering the question. If you listen to his interview's you could see he does that A LOT. When somebody asked him what he personally created (I mean what technology/solf/ whatever.) he just starts speaking bullshit. And idiots like that bullshit.

[nacht]

	Originally Posted by Erebos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, it's not simple, but once you get some stuff you understand it was simpler than you thought at first.

I find it odd how you are using the second person here.

Ever compare the difficulties in implementing a C++ compiler vs. a C compiler?

	And who asked for vision?

I am guessing that your answer to my question "do you have any knowledge of what Apple was doing in 1995 and what changed in 1996?" is "no"

Hint: Apple asked for vision. Hence why they purchased
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, a company that was founded by Steve Jobs.


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was an unmitigated disaster due to a lack of leadership and a lack of a cohesive vision. When Jobs says that mistakes are good "because at least some decisions are being made along the way," it is reflective of the utter lack of vision that plagued Apple in the years before the NeXT acquisition.

I am also sure he brought absolutely nothing whatsoever of value to Pixar.

[liM]

Staying on topic, my answers would be:

1) Masterful use of buzzwords and subliminal messages successfully convinced people that buying Apple products makes them superior to people who don't.
2) Their products are easier to use than other competing products. They successfully market this, making "technically challenged" people who have concerns about their lack of aptitude with technology feel better about themselves. I think the less sophisticated people who feel empowered in this way would have a tendency to turn into the stereotypical mac fans we all know.