[Bisclavret]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Oh for crying out loud, just ask an ENTP out! /adhering to stereotype

You can't wear the fur coat before having killed the bear. I was more interested in acquiring pointers for identifying the aforesaid type.

Your feedback as well as that provided by others has been helpful thus far.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by Bisclavret To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You can't wear the fur coat before having killed the bear. I was more interested in acquiring pointers for identifying the aforesaid type.

The easiest way to figure this out, is to interact with more ENTP women online. One never knows where it might lead and even if it leads nowhere, you get the exposure.

Caveat, ENTP women can be difficult to get close to. And in real life, their bouncy personality won't be as easy to spot. Some can be pretty introverted for extroverts which would align with your needs.

If you meet an obnoxious ENTP woman online, she's more than likely mistyped, probably ESTP.

[Bisclavret]

Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'll take "People who had a really bad relationship with an ENTP for $1,000" Alex. Anyway, sometimes it takes me time myself to determine if somebody is an ESTP or an ENTP. I thought my boss was an ENTP at first. He loved my innovative ideas, was pretty competitive and not really fond of rules for the sake of rules. But what I ultimately noticed is that he was very good at championing my ideas and promoting innovation, but didn't get directly involved himself. He was an ESTP, not an ENTP. We have a good relationship from knowing this. He's looking to me for visions/ideas/innovations and then selling those ideas to others. ESTPs like new things and ideas, just as an ENTP does, but an ESTP's role is to "sell" these concepts, not to innovate them the way an ENTP does. That's why the ESTP sometimes gets the "salesman" label.

One is better at innovating, the other at marketing. For some reason, I could imagine that an ENTP could accomplish both tasks.

[DrCiao]

	Originally Posted by Distance To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Caveat, ENTP women can be difficult to get close to. And in real life, their bouncy personality won't be as easy to spot. Some can be pretty introverted for extroverts which would align with your needs.

Sure you can. They're easily identifiable by their blogging about their shoes and clothes, and tweeting about their excessive drunken nights

[SShack]

	Originally Posted by Bisclavret To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One is better at innovating, the other at marketing. For some reason, I could imagine that an ENTP could accomplish both tasks.

We can if that's the direction we go. I had a fellow ENTP as the marketing person at my company for a while. I'm actually learning better marketing now. But honestly I'd much rather focus on the innovating than the marketing.

What I'm seeing happen to ENTPs in the marketing area is that they become innovators of marketing. We just can't help it with the innovation. That marketing guy is now working to market tablet application news sites, staying on the bleeding edge of innovation and pushing marketing into new areas.

[Distance]

	Originally Posted by DrCiao To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure you can. They're easily identifiable by their blogging about their shoes and clothes, and tweeting about their excessive drunken nights

Eh? That doesn't sound like ENTP women. Sounds more ESFPish.

[Dru]

they are both rational. an ESTP may be more prone to being rational in a very pragmatic, down-to-earth sense, applying logic to what's relevant. an ENTP may be more prone to being rational in a far more detached, abstract sense, applying logic to what's interesting.

[benr3600]

	Originally Posted by DrCiao To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure you can. They're easily identifiable by their blogging about their shoes and clothes, and tweeting about their excessive drunken nights

TBH, these sound a lot more like ESxx proclivities. I've known what I believe to be one female ENTP, and like the mysterious theory suggests, we were instantly attracted to each other. While she was quite outgoing and spontaneous, she was also quite intelligent, insightful into other people with the quickness than an Ne user would be, and pushy/testy with others, and especially cold underneath the outgoing/gregarious persona, not unlike what we perceive to be ENTP males, IRL. I would say her personality was every bit as unique as the relative appearance of this rare female type. She wasn't very deliberate with her clothing/fashion, at all, keeping it simple.

---------- Post added 10-26-2011 at 06:18 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Dru To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	they are both rational. an ESTP may be more prone to being rational in a very pragmatic, down-to-earth sense, applying logic to what's relevant. an ENTP may be more prone to being rational in a far more detached, abstract sense, applying logic to what's interesting.

Is it fair to assume that every T-type is rational then?

[Dru]

"Our two minds .... One is an act of the emotional mind, the other of the rational mind. In a very real sense we have two minds, one that thinks and one that feels" (Daniel Goleman, Emotional Intelligence, Bloomsbury Publishing, London, 1996, page 8)

personality types are a matter of threshold, or as is commonly referred to here, sliding-scale. any sort of dichotomy is almost guaranteed to be a generalization, and many are false.

[benr3600]

And this whole time, I thought MBTI was all about preferences. :P

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by DrCiao To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're really obsessed with these Tarantino films. ENTPs have the highest rate of being serial killers and sociopaths too.

	Originally Posted by DrCiao To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure you can. They're easily identifiable by their blogging about their shoes and clothes, and tweeting about their excessive drunken nights

Good god, what the hell happened? Never mind; don't think I want to know.

	Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll take "People who had a really bad relationship with an ENTP for $1,000" Alex.

Yup. Sounds about right.

One thing that always strikes me as quintessentially NTP is a certain sharpness. More apparent in ENTPs than INTPs, but only because we talk more. (Over time, I've pretty consistently tested as an ENTP.) It's been called kind of a lawyering quality, where there will be arguments about semantics or details or the rightness or wrongness of a certain point. It's very often not fun for people. I try to get all mine out online so I don't subject friends to it, and at this point feel almost compelled to offer the forum an apology for it. (But I appreciate an INTJ's clarity of thought and resistance to taking things personally.)

Reckful made a good point about thinking of it just as the difference between an SP and an NT. These long discussions, all the lawyering, the absolute need to analyze everything you put in front of them, would probably bore the ESTPs I know to tears. Of course, I might suggest that they need to think things through a bit more.

	Originally Posted by Bisclavret
	You can't wear the fur coat before having killed the bear. I was more interested in acquiring pointers for identifying the aforesaid type.

Look for the Ne: someone interested in talking about ideas, not specific experiences. Who on the plus side, might make some impressive connections between two concepts, but on the minus side, might not be able to finish a topic before jumping to the next. Attract them by contributing meaningfully to the conversation. (Crazy talk, I know.) Good conversation, good wine - sounds like pretty much the perfect date.

And generally, try to avoid metaphors about your future date likening them to animals to be killed so you can wear their skin as clothing. FYI.

[Dru]

	Originally Posted by benr3600 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And this whole time, I thought MBTI was all about preferences. :P

it is. preferring one thing doesn't erase the existence of its counterpart[s] in your life.

[TheoReticle]

	Originally Posted by benr3600 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And this whole time, I thought MBTI was all about preferences. :P

Preferences are deceptively powerful things. When you consider that preference, like any other psychological event, must necessarily have a neurological correlate, this also necessitates a certain amount of metabolic activity in certain brain regions, which also necessitates differing levels of efficiency of processing.

What we "like" or "prefer" is massively influential in arousing ( the attention in) our brains, and consequently influences what we find easier or engaging to focus on and consequently influences our level of skill over time-- this is why it's not particularly wise to type someone until they'v emerged from their developmental period.

We don't really have any control over which preferences choose us, simply how we honor, exploit or attempt to undermine them.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by Dru To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	it is. preferring one thing doesn't erase the existence of its counterpart[s] in your life.

What if rather than erasure it caused repression, even if only temporarily?

Then not only would dichotmies be justified is applied correctly, we would be discussing something more akin to Jungian Typology.

The scale has its place but it has never erased the fundamental dichotomies or the fundamental ways functions operate.

[benr3600]

Not sure how the "scale" aspect of most MBTI tests suggests it is a purely qualitative measure, anyway. Can't say I think the "generalization" of my type at least is wrong, no matter how little (none) I care for conformity. There's a good reason some companies use it for hiring/promoting purposes, and that's about it, officially. It's meant to be more or less a pop-psych thing, with more practical applicability than scientific usability, IMHO. Hell, I think it was the least covered topic in both of my personality courses. And the second professor completely FUBARed the definitions of Ni and Ti
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[Visual Language]

Huh? Where on Earth are you finding these collections of unethical ENTPs?

My experience with ENTPs have been quite rewarding, some with greater interpersonal skills than many NF types. I've enjoyed the good company and healthy interactions with ENTPs as clients, friends, confidants, peers, associates, even family members.

Bear in mind that ethics is a reflection of character, NOT personality or temperament.

[Bisclavret]

Originally Posted by Visual Language To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Huh? Where on Earth are you finding these collections of unethical ENTPs? My experience with ENTPs have been quite rewarding, some with greater interpersonal skills than many NF types. I've enjoyed the good company and healthy interactions with ENTPs as clients, friends, confidants, peers, associates, even family members. Bear in mind that ethics is a reflection of character, NOT personality or temperament.

I would agree with this. The contents (ethics) are not defined by the structure (personality) under which they reside, nor does the structure give any clear cut indication of its contents. If you may, I'd be interested in hearing about your experience with ENTP (especially the feminine kind if this applies).

---------- Post added 10-29-2011 at 07:54 PM ----------

Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Look for the Ne: someone interested in talking about ideas, not specific experiences. Who on the plus side, might make some impressive connections between two concepts, but on the minus side, might not be able to finish a topic before jumping to the next. Attract them by contributing meaningfully to the conversation. (Crazy talk, I know.) Good conversation, good wine - sounds like pretty much the perfect date. And generally, try to avoid metaphors about your future date likening them to animals to be killed so you can wear their skin as clothing. FYI.

Its so very rare to find those willing to speak about ideas versus concrete experiences; moreover, since small talk is socially "expected" from everyone, it is hard to decipher between those who talk about experiences because they don't like talking about anything else (xSxx) and those that talk about experiences because they expect that no one around them wants to hear about their theories/ideas. I guess this is where someone has to test the waters and prompt to other party to discuss about ideas.

Oh, and the imagery I conjured up with the skin coat and the bear wasn't meant to be interpreted in such a way as to dehumanize. In fact, it was merely to highlight the fact that before one progresses to a secondary step, it is imperative that they complete the primary step first.

---------- Post added 10-29-2011 at 07:58 PM ----------

Another question: what "vibe" do ENTPs give off that differentiates them from the ENFx?

[SShack]

	Another question: what "vibe" do ENTPs give off that differentiates them from the ENFx?

It's tough for me to say for myself what kind of "vibe" I give off. Trying to judge how others perceive me is a challenge. I know that I've been told I appear impatient, particularly when working. I definitely tend to be in a rush, which I suspect is a bit different from how ENFXs come off.

[Bisclavret]

	Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's tough for me to say for myself what kind of "vibe" I give off. Trying to judge how others perceive me is a challenge. I know that I've been told I appear impatient, particularly when working. I definitely tend to be in a rush, which I suspect is a bit different from how ENFXs come off.

I am guessing that they may exibit themselves as being more "considerate" and "receptive" given the scenario that you provided. Again, it depends largely upon the individual.

[larkin]

	Originally Posted by Bisclavret To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am guessing that they may exibit themselves as being more "considerate" and "receptive" given the scenario that you provided. Again, it depends largely upon the individual.

Yes, largely personal, but agreed. One adjective I think of when I think of an ENFP is "warm" - that's not often what would come to mind for an ENTP on first meeting, I don't think. Which is of course not to say an ENTP couldn't or wouldn't be warm as you got to know them.

I used the description "sharp," on first glance, although that means different things to different people too - quick, maybe? Clever seems a bit complimentary, but that can also be a double-edged sword. Clever can verge on being pleased with yourself - something to watch out for, definitely.

(I was joking about the hunting and killing potential dates for their pelts, but you see how that can be easily misinterpreted.
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)

[Indubitably]

ENTP: The world is a giant playground, itself constructed, at its most fundamental level, of the most awesome toys you could possibly imagine, and they intend to explore every last corner of it if its the last thing they do. Every thing is possible, potential is everywhere, and like a kid in a candy store they want it all. They are above all else curious, and will rarely pass up an opportunity to investigate the implications of what ever shiny new possibility might come their way, unless of course another, shinier, newer, possibility comes along. They posses a very mercurial wit, and are not afraid to use it. Don't worry if their humor seems bizar and non sensical at first; a few days later, it will be positively hilarious.

ESTP: The world is a game and they intend to win, even if its the last thing they do. Be careful, this game has only one rule, and that is "there are no rules". ESTPs are constantly testing themselves to see what they can get away with, and seem to have little meaningful motivation for taking action beyond this pursuit. They love a good challenge, take very little personally, and would happily sell ice to eskimos just to see if there where any Eskimos out there sharp enough to give them a run for their money. Its true what they say about many ESTPs being scam artists, but they thoroughly expect you to be doing everything in your power to scam them as well, and will gladly tip their hat if you beat them at their game. In all likelyhood though, you will not beat them at their game.

---------- Post added 10-31-2011 at 03:25 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's tough for me to say for myself what kind of "vibe" I give off. Trying to judge how others perceive me is a challenge. I know that I've been told I appear impatient, particularly when working. I definitely tend to be in a rush, which I suspect is a bit different from how ENFXs come off.

I think its more like their brain is in overdrive, so reality is always left playing catch-up with the entp's imagination. Basically, its not that ENTPs are impatient, its that the world is too slow.

[SShack]

	I think its more like their brain is in overdrive, so reality is always left playing catch-up with the entp's imagination. Basically, its not that ENTPs are impatient, its that the world is too slow.

And I have complained bitterly to the world about this, to no avail.

[Tactical Panda]

ESTPs have a soft side that make them cry when their hearts are touched. Well... for some ESTP girls that seems the case.

ENTP girls on the other hand... also do expected things. One of my girl ENTP friends has a reasonably sized personal Zoid collection, for example.

[Negativezero]

ENTP sells ice to an eskimo as a fun experiment then moves on to something else
ESTP makes a living selling ice to eskimos

[JulietCapulet]

There was one thread asking how to distinguish between an ENTP and ENFP. This one comparing ESTP and ENTP. Does that mean that there is a possiblity that ESTP is often mistaken for ENFP and vice versa?

But to answer the question...

it's all about the sensor vs intuitive. It can take some time to really know.