If you had to choose between pleasure or pain?

**Winter Sun** · 10-02-2011, 09:49 PM

If, for the rest of your life, you could keep only one of these physical sensations and had to lose the other, which would it be? And why?

**Nemesis** · 10-02-2011, 10:05 PM

I have a deep respect for the value of pain, but if would have to choose... damned right I'd choose pleasure.

**Chameleon** · 10-02-2011, 10:05 PM

I choose pain; I believe one powerful motivation that forces change and the other powerful motivation that breeds stagnation.

**JC22** · 10-02-2011, 10:29 PM

	Originally Posted by Winter Sun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If, for the rest of your life, you could keep only one of these sensations and had to lose the other, which would it be? And why?

Is there something missing in this question? Pain/pleasure for what purpose?

Humans work to avoid pain and seek pleasure. Having either permanently turned off/on would not end well.

**storm eyes** · 10-03-2011, 04:14 AM

Pleasure.

I have had enough pain to appreciate it now.

**clumsywordsmith** · 10-03-2011, 08:16 AM

Live the rest of life like I was on a permanent heroin high?

Hells yeah!

The only reason pleasure is ever bad is because it ends. A life lived with nothing but unending happiness? Isn't that what all humans want -- even if our definitions thereof might be different?

I really feel there should be a serious drawback somewhere, but I just can't see one. Since, by definition, anything bad that could possibly happen would cause you pain -- and therefore, since you were immune to such, it could never happen.

**Winter Sun** · 10-03-2011, 02:07 PM

Actually, I'm talking about the physical sensation of pain or pleasure, not a mental state.

Bad things could still happen, but you wouldn't feel the pain. For example, if you accidentally put your hand on a hot stove, you're skin would still melt off, but you wouldn't feel any pain.

In the same way, good things could happen, but you wouldn't feel the pleasure. For example, you could get a foot massage and your muscles would relax, but you wouldn't feel any pleasure from it.

**TheStranger** · 10-03-2011, 03:21 PM

Both pain and pleasure seem to be evolutionary tools. It all depends on the goal of the organism which sensation would be more beneficial. If pleasure was absent, but pain was stll discriminate in its nature to make itself felt (putting your hand on a hot stove), then from a survivalist view pain would seem to be more beneficial.

Although the survivalist view isn't necessarily more valid than the suicidal and apathetic stances on life.

**joliet** · 10-03-2011, 09:25 PM

You need pain to survive. You don't need pleasure, as much (arguable.)

If your appendix is going to bust, you better hope you can feel the pain.

If I was ridiculously rich, I'd pick pleasure and have an in-house doctor who can do tests and scans and blood work and stool work and the whole works every week to be sure I was healthy. Then again, if I could only feel pleasure, I'm not sure how empathetic I could be. I value my empathy.

**Findley** · 10-06-2011, 08:35 PM

"Pain is a gift." -- Steven Colbert, explaining his life after his father and two brothers died in a plane crash in his youth.

If I were to consciously choose, I would pick pain -- not to be masochistic, but to have an edge and to be drawn back to reality and to be productive with my talents.

**Wilderness** · 10-06-2011, 08:50 PM

Having been through some pretty serious pain from medical problems, I would have to say that the fear of chronic pain far outweighs the fear of dying because I didn't recognize pain. For me, at least.

**BlackMita** · 10-06-2011, 09:31 PM

Masochists like pleasure, they just viscerally understand that it's base nature is the absence of pain. They get "more" pleasure through a controlled sculpting and awareness of their pain.

In other words, choosing pain isn't choosing anything.

**theiceman** · 10-06-2011, 09:42 PM

Pain and this one is easy.

Pleasure would make a theoretical person get very dormant with thoughts, innovations and generally content with the world around them even if it is bad. Pain is such a strong feeling that it could probably be classified as the thing which bonds all humans together.

I believe that the two things in the world that all humans should bond themselves around is that we all feel hate and we all experience pain. Pain tells you so much about a person that you don't even have to talk to them to know their tendencies, motivations and even some of the darkest secrets about them. Pain is very powerful and losing it would breed people to think that the world is a utopia when it is a very broken place.

Most importantly, if we lose pain, we lose our shared identity as humans. Pain identifies us, pain makes us "feel real", pain is a survival reaction in which tells us to stop doing things. In short pain makes us human.

**JC22** · 10-06-2011, 09:46 PM

I would keep pain.

**Wilderness** · 10-06-2011, 10:24 PM

	Originally Posted by theiceman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Pleasure would make a theoretical person get very dormant with thoughts, innovations and generally content with the world around them even if it is bad.

What if a person's pain was so bad that it removed his or her ability to think, innovate or basically function?

**CaelestisPeste** · 10-06-2011, 11:57 PM

So far pleasure has made me do some stupid things in life.
Pain on the other hand has kept me safe and I learned from my pleasurable mistakes through pain.
Pain outweighs pleasure for me, so pain. Perhaps I'm a pessimist.

**CyanideSoda** · 10-07-2011, 02:33 AM

Yah, people who ask that question haven't experienced chronic acute pain, methinks. Not a fun or stimulating experience, folks. A quick ticket to depression, not personal evolution. For me it got to the point I was contemplating suicide if it got worse.

So, yah, pleasure all the way.

MrFreakaficial · 10-07-2011, 05:34 AM

Like all extremes, doesn't one lose its purpose without the other? How would we experience pain if we did not know pleasure?

**theiceman** · 10-07-2011, 05:36 AM

	Originally Posted by Wilderness To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What if a person's pain was so bad that it removed his or her ability to think, innovate or basically function?

I would have to think that the theoretical person you are talking about is incredibly weak and doesn't know how to use pain properly. Pain used properly can be the biggest motivational tool in the world and not something that hinders thought.

	Originally Posted by CyanideSoda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yah, people who ask that question haven't experienced chronic acute pain, methinks. Not a fun or stimulating experience, folks. A quick ticket to depression, not personal evolution. For me it got to the point I was contemplating suicide if it got worse. So, yah, pleasure all the way.

If it's physical or even emotional/mental I'd still choose pain either way for the reason that pain drives people away from making stupid decisions (for the weak it drives them into making stupid decisions) and pleasure would just bring a person back to doing the same thing over and over again because it would be "the best thing in the world" (like college kids having sex multiple times over). I've felt pain too much in my life to want to give it up whereas I've never felt pleasure too much (in the sense we are talking about) and I could easily live without it.

"Once you've felt pain, you've felt what the ultimate pleasure feels like."

**Tacitus** · 10-07-2011, 05:46 AM

Without pain could I still be depressed, angry or dissatisfied?
Without pleasure could I feel fulfilled, dominant, satisfaction?
If I had to lose those things too I might as well end my life.

Are we just talking about the immediate sensation of touching a burning stove or eating ice cream? Or are we talking about something broader?

**Yvoire** · 10-07-2011, 07:13 AM

Pleasure.
There has been enough pain in any human being's life without the need to ask for more.
Also, I'm an INTJ. There is no way that I risk losing my edge. My creativity keeps my mind sharp and I never lose my will to create.

**bobstir** · 10-07-2011, 08:27 AM

You can still feel pleasure even without ever experiencing pain. If you've got a scale from -1 to 1 (where -1 = complete pain and 1 = complete pleasure) then you've still got 0 (the absence of pain and pleasure). If you don't feel pain at all to begin with and therefore have no 'pain' reference point to tell when you're experiencing pleasure, then you've still got 0 as a reference point. Never forget the 0

EDIT: Please don't blindly apply some form of the statement that states you can't experience one form of emotion without having experienced the opposite emotion. Just because you've heard it somewhere and it sounds logical prima facie, doesn't mean it is logical

I can't figure out any logical reason why one would choose to keep pain and not keep pleasure. Who would want to be stuck on a scale of -1 to 0 inclusive? Even if you use pain as a motivator, you would have gotten rid of pleasure and so any benefit you derive from the pain will bring you no pleasure because you would have gotten rid of it.

Picking pain for survival reasons is logical. I guess if you had your hand on a burning stove but couldn't feel it then you would possibly burn your hand badly. But you might as well be dead if you can't live a life without any pleasure.

If anyone of you who picked to keep pain were actually given a real life choice to keep pleasure or pain, I've got a feeling you would actually pick to keep pleasure

**Wilderness** · 10-07-2011, 08:31 AM

	Originally Posted by theiceman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would have to think that the theoretical person you are talking about is incredibly weak and doesn't know how to use pain properly. Pain used properly can be the biggest motivational tool in the world and not something that hinders thought.

I'm also thinking that you've never experienced chronic acute pain. If someone has a medical condition and has to live with debilitating pain, that does not make them mentally weak. In fact, you could say that they are quite strong for dealing with it everyday and not killing themselves. It is easy for people who have not experienced extreme physical pain to dismiss how severe the pain can be, and it can truly be bad enough to hinder thought.

**bobstir** · 10-07-2011, 08:42 AM

	Originally Posted by theiceman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	"Once you've felt pain, you've felt what the ultimate pleasure feels like."

...you won't be able to feel pleasure though because you would have decided not to keep it...

You're too attached to the idea that pain is some grandiose emotional state. Your display picture would suggest this too and I think this grandiose idea of pain is getting in the way of you making a logical analysis

**Tactical Panda** · 10-07-2011, 08:58 AM

Pleasure.

Pain would help keep me alive by warning me.
But a life of pain without hope for change seems hardly a great thing.

On the other hand, pleasure can me mastered and controlled.
If I can feel pleasure in patience I should be able to manage life well enough if I am smart and disciplined about it.

View Poll Results: Which sensation would you choose to keep for the rest of your life?
I would choose to keep Pleasure.	62	75.61%
I would choose to keep Pain	20	24.39%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

10-02-2011, 09:49 PM	#1
Winter Sun Member [22%] MBTI: INTp Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 886	If, for the rest of your life, you could keep only one of these physical sensations and had to lose the other, which would it be? And why?
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10-02-2011, 10:05 PM	#2
Nemesis Core Member [306%] MBTI: XXXX Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 12,276	I have a deep respect for the value of pain, but if would have to choose... damned right I'd choose pleasure.
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10-02-2011, 10:05 PM	#3
Chameleon Veteran Member [99%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3,968	I choose pain; I believe one powerful motivation that forces change and the other powerful motivation that breeds stagnation.
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10-03-2011, 04:14 AM	#5
storm eyes Core Member [150%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6,013	Pleasure. I have had enough pain to appreciate it now.
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10-03-2011, 08:16 AM	#6
clumsywordsmith Member [07%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 318	Live the rest of life like I was on a permanent heroin high? Hells yeah! The only reason pleasure is ever bad is because it ends. A life lived with nothing but unending happiness? Isn't that what all humans want -- even if our definitions thereof might be different? I really feel there should be a serious drawback somewhere, but I just can't see one. Since, by definition, anything bad that could possibly happen would cause you pain -- and therefore, since you were immune to such, it could never happen.
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10-03-2011, 02:07 PM	#7
Winter Sun Member [22%] MBTI: INTp Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 886	Actually, I'm talking about the physical sensation of pain or pleasure, not a mental state. Bad things could still happen, but you wouldn't feel the pain. For example, if you accidentally put your hand on a hot stove, you're skin would still melt off, but you wouldn't feel any pain. In the same way, good things could happen, but you wouldn't feel the pleasure. For example, you could get a foot massage and your muscles would relax, but you wouldn't feel any pleasure from it.
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10-03-2011, 03:21 PM	#8
TheStranger Core Member [153%] MBTI: intp Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 6,139	Both pain and pleasure seem to be evolutionary tools. It all depends on the goal of the organism which sensation would be more beneficial. If pleasure was absent, but pain was stll discriminate in its nature to make itself felt (putting your hand on a hot stove), then from a survivalist view pain would seem to be more beneficial. Although the survivalist view isn't necessarily more valid than the suicidal and apathetic stances on life.
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10-03-2011, 09:25 PM	#9
joliet Member [15%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 610	You need pain to survive. You don't need pleasure, as much (arguable.) If your appendix is going to bust, you better hope you can feel the pain. If I was ridiculously rich, I'd pick pleasure and have an in-house doctor who can do tests and scans and blood work and stool work and the whole works every week to be sure I was healthy. Then again, if I could only feel pleasure, I'm not sure how empathetic I could be. I value my empathy.
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10-06-2011, 08:35 PM	#10
Findley Member [07%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 288	"Pain is a gift." -- Steven Colbert, explaining his life after his father and two brothers died in a plane crash in his youth. If I were to consciously choose, I would pick pain -- not to be masochistic, but to have an edge and to be drawn back to reality and to be productive with my talents.
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10-06-2011, 08:50 PM	#11
Wilderness Member [29%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,197	Having been through some pretty serious pain from medical problems, I would have to say that the fear of chronic pain far outweighs the fear of dying because I didn't recognize pain. For me, at least.
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10-06-2011, 09:31 PM	#12
BlackMita Member [24%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 999	Masochists like pleasure, they just viscerally understand that it's base nature is the absence of pain. They get "more" pleasure through a controlled sculpting and awareness of their pain. In other words, choosing pain isn't choosing anything.
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10-06-2011, 09:42 PM	#13
theiceman Member [42%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,705	Pain and this one is easy. Pleasure would make a theoretical person get very dormant with thoughts, innovations and generally content with the world around them even if it is bad. Pain is such a strong feeling that it could probably be classified as the thing which bonds all humans together. I believe that the two things in the world that all humans should bond themselves around is that we all feel hate and we all experience pain. Pain tells you so much about a person that you don't even have to talk to them to know their tendencies, motivations and even some of the darkest secrets about them. Pain is very powerful and losing it would breed people to think that the world is a utopia when it is a very broken place. Most importantly, if we lose pain, we lose our shared identity as humans. Pain identifies us, pain makes us "feel real", pain is a survival reaction in which tells us to stop doing things. In short pain makes us human.
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10-06-2011, 09:46 PM	#14
JC22 Core Member [112%] MBTI: xxxx Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,509	I would keep pain.
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10-06-2011, 11:57 PM	#16
CaelestisPeste Core Member [143%] MBTI: INXP Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 5,740	So far pleasure has made me do some stupid things in life. Pain on the other hand has kept me safe and I learned from my pleasurable mistakes through pain. Pain outweighs pleasure for me, so pain. Perhaps I'm a pessimist.
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10-07-2011, 02:33 AM	#17
CyanideSoda Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 355	Yah, people who ask that question haven't experienced chronic acute pain, methinks. Not a fun or stimulating experience, folks. A quick ticket to depression, not personal evolution. For me it got to the point I was contemplating suicide if it got worse. So, yah, pleasure all the way.
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10-07-2011, 05:34 AM	#18
MrFreakaficial Core Member [223%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 8,947	Like all extremes, doesn't one lose its purpose without the other? How would we experience pain if we did not know pleasure?
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10-07-2011, 05:46 AM	#20
Tacitus New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 67	Without pain could I still be depressed, angry or dissatisfied? Without pleasure could I feel fulfilled, dominant, satisfaction? If I had to lose those things too I might as well end my life. Are we just talking about the immediate sensation of touching a burning stove or eating ice cream? Or are we talking about something broader?
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10-07-2011, 07:13 AM	#21
Yvoire New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 70	Pleasure. There has been enough pain in any human being's life without the need to ask for more. Also, I'm an INTJ. There is no way that I risk losing my edge. My creativity keeps my mind sharp and I never lose my will to create.
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10-07-2011, 08:27 AM	#22
bobstir Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 110	You can still feel pleasure even without ever experiencing pain. If you've got a scale from -1 to 1 (where -1 = complete pain and 1 = complete pleasure) then you've still got 0 (the absence of pain and pleasure). If you don't feel pain at all to begin with and therefore have no 'pain' reference point to tell when you're experiencing pleasure, then you've still got 0 as a reference point. Never forget the 0 EDIT: Please don't blindly apply some form of the statement that states you can't experience one form of emotion without having experienced the opposite emotion. Just because you've heard it somewhere and it sounds logical prima facie, doesn't mean it is logical I can't figure out any logical reason why one would choose to keep pain and not keep pleasure. Who would want to be stuck on a scale of -1 to 0 inclusive? Even if you use pain as a motivator, you would have gotten rid of pleasure and so any benefit you derive from the pain will bring you no pleasure because you would have gotten rid of it. Picking pain for survival reasons is logical. I guess if you had your hand on a burning stove but couldn't feel it then you would possibly burn your hand badly. But you might as well be dead if you can't live a life without any pleasure. If anyone of you who picked to keep pain were actually given a real life choice to keep pleasure or pain, I've got a feeling you would actually pick to keep pleasure
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10-07-2011, 08:58 AM	#25
Tactical Panda Core Member [133%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,328	Pleasure. Pain would help keep me alive by warning me. But a life of pain without hope for change seems hardly a great thing. On the other hand, pleasure can me mastered and controlled. If I can feel pleasure in patience I should be able to manage life well enough if I am smart and disciplined about it.
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