[plotthickens]

It is repeated time and again on INTJf how single moms and broken homes are awful and horrible and downfall of society, etc etc etc. Why are the single moms, who are working their asses off to support themselves and their kid and make their way in the world, being blamed for "breaking" those families? What about the father who's not there helping out -- how does absence = innocence?

• 13.7 million single parents in the US (21.8 million children) (26% of children under 21)
  • 16% of single parents are male
    • Single Dads
      • 57.8% are divorced or separated
  • 84% of single parents are female
    • Single Moms
      • 45% are currently divorced or separated
      • 34.2% have never been married
      • 19% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.)
      • 1.7% were widowed

The fathers aren't stepping up to the plate. So why are women blamed?

[Muumeh]

Because if a woman gets a child and the father is for whatever reason not fitting for the job, it is her duty to find a suitable father figure for the child asap! N way could a mere woman take care of bringing the bread on table while raising the kid(s) properly. It is a woman's responsibility to take the blame for choosing the wrong dude to reproduce with, and therefore it is also only proper that she gets shunned down as "bad mom" if she fails to fix the situation by finding a suitable supporter, or "gold digger" if she finds one. Either way, it was her fault that the kid happened, because boys are boys and you didn't listen at the Hogwart's Astronomy class.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why are the single moms, who are working their asses off to support themselves and their kid and make their way in the world, being blamed for "breaking" those families?

More power to them...

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is repeated time and again on INTJf how single moms and broken homes are awful and horrible and downfall of society, etc etc etc.

As separate issues or the same issue, to what extent, why, and is it really that simple and non-sensical or are you simplifying someone elses' argument a bit too much?

In other words... are you sure thats not two separate issues juxtaposed?

[plotthickens]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As separate issues or the same issue, to what extent, why, and is it really that simple and non-sensical or are you simplifying someone elses' argument a bit too much? In other words... are you sure thats not two separate issues juxtaposed?

No, I'm pretty sure other posters link regularly the two inextricably. If this thread remains unfrequented, then either the issue is self-explanatory, or you're correct and I read other's posts wrong. Time will tell.

[Large Coffee]

Everything regarding children is always blamed on the mother whether or not there's a father in the picture or not. :/

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No, I'm pretty sure other posters link regularly the two inextricably. If this thread remains unfrequented, then either the issue is self-explanatory, or you're correct and I read other's posts wrong. Time will tell.

Hmm. But a broken home involves a broken relationship. And a relationship between people involves more than one person. So unless its two mothers... why isn't a father part of the picture?

Or is he already factored in somehow?

*Confused*

[Necrosis]

Ironic considering everytime I see a child with a terrible childhood I blame the fact that there isn't a father figure. Never have I personally ever said "it's the mom's fault".

[Tactical Panda]

Those statistics don't seem to account for too many important things, like fathers who have their kids taken away for no sound reason. Is it really absence - or severance?

There are way too many holes everywhere... this picture needs some explaining.

[Mind Marauder]

Like Muumeh said, society perceives the mother to be at fault because SHE chose to reproduce with a male that isn't good for her or her children. Men generally want sex, women generally want to build relationships so that they can rear their young in a safe environment. When society sees a woman that is CLEARLY not doing her job in creating a safe environment (by not selecting a good enough mate) they have no pity for her. We also have to remember that this society is also made up of other women. Women are just as judgmental of other women as men are, if not more-so.

[Tactical Panda]

Originally Posted by Mind Marauder To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Like Muumeh said, society perceives the mother to be at fault because SHE chose to reproduce with a male that isn't good for her or her children. Men generally want sex, women generally want to build relationships so that they can rear their young in a safe environment. When society sees a woman that is CLEARLY not doing her job in creating a safe environment (by not selecting a good enough mate) they have no pity for her. We also have to remember that this society is also made up of other women. Women are just as judgmental of other women as men are, if not more-so.

Some people don't need society to do all their thinking for them.
But perhaps some people do, by some measure.

I don't know...
With widows, there seems to be an element of concern towards them.
With wife-beater survivors, its probably a mixed bag - character awareness vs the unknown element.
With swingers or gold diggers, its probably a different deal.
With people without a simple classification... its probably not that good an outlook unless its something unfortunate and out of your direct control.

[Thinker]

Just another statistic to throw into the swamp:

70% of divorces are initiated by women.
The only real conclusion you can make from this statistic is that women are often better at deciding to end marriage.

I haven't ever come across this view that woman are blamed for single parent households...except on this forum....then again what does the rest of the world know...they must be wrong.

Or...perhaps this forum is full of misogynistic males.

[Eudoxus]

How is a woman who has remarried a "single" parent?...

How can one be both single and married?...

[Mind Marauder]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Some people don't need society to do all their thinking for them. But perhaps some people do, by some measure.

The statistics, on which this thread partly based, were pulled from a societal grouping. Or would you suggest that they were individually fabricated? Therefore, it is important to understand WHERE society is coming from in order to understand the implications of the trend that the statistics clearly illustrate.

[Shoshana]

I don't blame women. I blame society for not holding women responsible for making better choices. By and large women are more socially programmed than men are and rely on others for social cues. Women are often really dumb about choosing men with poor characters.

Women are a culture's social glue. Once we abandon that responsibility all bets are off. Ever read up on what early colonial settlements were like without the presence of women? Total anarchy and mayhem.

In any case, a household with no father in it is compromised. It's not just the financial stability. It's the emotional support a woman has in knowing she's not going it completely alone.

And from a child's perspective, a male figure brings a different balance and energy to the situation that women can't provide. And vice versa. I don't think male single family households are any great shakes either.

None of this is to suggest that a two parent household is superior in and of itself. There are plenty of households where one or both parents are emotionally absent. Which adds to my point...a parent/spouse who is absent in any regard, compromises the situation. In my opinion.

Everything I talked about holds true about gay households too. I think it's better when there are two mutually supportive adults in the equation. Anything else is a compromised sitch.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Thinker To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just another statistic to throw into the swamp: 70% of divorces are initiated by women. The only real conclusion you can make from this statistic is that women are often better at deciding to end marriage.

Unfortunately, this statistic doesn't measure their reasons for iniating divorce. My ex-husband would never have initiated divorce proceedings because he liked the status quo, in which I supported him financially and he went around putting his penis in other women. I mean, who would want out of that situation?

Me, I suppose.

I really don't give a shit who gets blamed for this crap. I pulled the plug, I had cause. Anyone who doesn't accept my reasons for it can suck a bag of dicks.

[YupItsMe]

I look a the facts before I attempt to determine blame. Drinking, drug abuse, infidelity, immaturity, narcissism and the root causes of those.

It would help if there was more education on being a good spouse but you couldnt trust the source not to have an agenda so its up to the in-duh-vidual to figure it out.

Unfortunately many outside of this crowd havent read a book since an authority figure required it in high school.

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It is repeated time and again on INTJf how single moms and broken homes are awful and horrible and downfall of society, etc etc etc. Why are the single moms, who are working their asses off to support themselves and their kid and make their way in the world, being blamed for "breaking" those families? What about the father who's not there helping out -- how does absence = innocence? 13.7 million single parents in the US (21.8 million children) (26% of children under 21) 16% of single parents are male Single Dads 57.8% are divorced or separated 84% of single parents are female Single Moms 45% are currently divorced or separated 34.2% have never been married 19% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.) 1.7% were widowed The fathers aren't stepping up to the plate. So why are women blamed?

I don't see any evidence that women are blamed more or less than men are.

I think there is a perception that women tend to be the ones who leave and file for divorce, and statistics bear that out, to some extent:

	65% of divorces are initiated by women. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

But given the focus on "deadbeat dads" and such, I don't see women being the only ones blamed.

[Latro]

Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Unfortunately, this statistic doesn't measure their reasons for iniating divorce. My ex-husband would never have initiated divorce proceedings because he liked the status quo, in which I supported him financially and he went around putting his penis in other women. I mean, who would want out of that situation? Me, I suppose. I really don't give a shit who gets blamed for this crap. I pulled the plug, I had cause. Anyone who doesn't accept my reasons for it can suck a bag of dicks.

And is this normally how things go down? To put it another way, it doesn't measure the reasons for initiating divorce, but your anecdotal evidence doesn't either.

I definitely don't see the whole "blame women" thing, though I don't actually read INTJf THAT much, to the point that I can see trends in threads and such.

[Large Coffee]

	Originally Posted by Latro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And is this normally how things go down? To put it another way, it doesn't measure the reasons for initiating divorce, but your anecdotal evidence doesn't either. I definitely don't see the whole "blame women" thing, though I don't actually read INTJf THAT much, to the point that I can see trends in threads and such.

All relationships are different, so there really isn't any "normal" way that things would go down.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by Mind Marauder To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The statistics, on which this thread partly based, were pulled from a societal grouping. Or would you suggest that they were individually fabricated? Therefore, it is important to understand WHERE society is coming from in order to understand the implications of the trend that the statistics clearly illustrate.

The statistics didn't include the reasons for the decisions, merely the outcomes.

We don't know why they did it, we only really know what we did.

For what we don't know, if we are careful, we may get an accurate picture.

But thats all we can do.

- - -

Blaming the mother or the father always seemed like an unhelpful mindset for the kids, who tend to be used as pawns for a domestic war. Sad... and damaging.

This thread is ironic in a terrifying way from many stand points.

[Fubudis]

Originally Posted by plotthickens To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It is repeated time and again on INTJf how single moms and broken homes are awful and horrible and downfall of society, etc etc etc. Why are the single moms, who are working their asses off to support themselves and their kid and make their way in the world, being blamed for "breaking" those families? What about the father who's not there helping out -- how does absence = innocence? 13.7 million single parents in the US (21.8 million children) (26% of children under 21) 16% of single parents are male Single Dads 57.8% are divorced or separated 84% of single parents are female Single Moms 45% are currently divorced or separated 34.2% have never been married 19% are married (In most cases, these numbers represent women who have remarried.) 1.7% were widowed The fathers aren't stepping up to the plate. So why are women blamed?

Clarification - How can you be a single mom and be married? Or does "single" mean financially independant?

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Latro To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And is this normally how things go down?

We don't collect data on spousal infidelity in no-fault divorce states, but prior to no-fault, it was a major contributor to divorce.

	To put it another way, it doesn't measure the reasons for initiating divorce, but your anecdotal evidence doesn't either.

I understand that. I'm pointing out that the data doesn't exist, and that blaming women for initiating divorce, without having data on the reasons why they initiate divorce, isn't particularly helpful. I used my personal situation to illustrate this.

Prior to no-fault, my ex's chronic philandering would have been blamed for the disruption of the family. Since no-fault, there are a few posters here who blame it all on the wimmenz, because we initiate more divorces. In lieu of data on the reasons for these divorces being initiated, such blaming is inappropriate and illogical.

[Seriously]

	Clarification - How can you be a single mom and be married? Or does "single" mean financially independant?

I believe it refers to the actual father of the child not raising the child or helping out. Just because the mother of your child remarries that doesn't make it not your kid anymore, contrary to what some men appear to believe.

[JustMel]

	Originally Posted by Fubudis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Clarification - How can you be a single mom and be married? Or does "single" mean financially independant?

If a woman remarries her original spouse is still financially responsible for supporting the child(ren) they had together. The step parent does not have to contribute to the child.



I have been on both sides of this issue. I was a single mom for thirteen years. My daughter's sperm donor owes me $160,000 in back child support and medical. I'll never see a dime. I don't care. I raised her and when she was 13 and I married my husband he adopted her and he's her dad for all intents and purposes. Her sperm donor hasn't seen her since she was eighteen months old and has had three phone conversations with her in her entire life. His choice.

My two youngest kids who are 11 and 6 have been in our sole custody for more than a year and their mother hasn't paid a dime in child support or medical. The 6 yr old is my husband's daughter with the woman (one night stand with a friend. baby was ten days old when we got together) and the 11 yr old isn't his. We have no clue who her father is nor does her mother.