[Crescent Fresh]

What do you think of these descriptions?

I'm certainly aware of Socionics functions has to do with changing the last cognitive function from J to F, or vice versa.

Though I felt without changing the last function, it sounds more authentic to me. That is why I'm posting both for your reference, just in case.


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[elTee13]

The socionics j=P/p=J thing is confusing. I clearly identify more with INTJ and INTj, the INTP/INTp descriptions are so not me. When correlating the ex (ESFP), her behavior also aligned more with ESFp than with ESFj, and the interpersonal relationship between INTj and ESFp was eerily accurate to our own experiences.

[Crescent Fresh]

	Originally Posted by elTee13 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The socionics j=P/p=J thing is confusing. I clearly identify more with INTJ and INTj, the INTP/INTp descriptions are so not me. When correlating the ex (ESFP), her behavior also aligned more with ESFp than with ESFj, and the interpersonal relationship between INTj and ESFp was eerily accurate to our own experiences.

I also felt the same way.

I felt ENFP/ENFp description are spot on, but not with /ENFj though.

I'm still waiting for the INFj uncovered description, but it seems to me that they've been putting it on hold as this uncovered reports have been out for a while.


Anyhow, what's your verdict on INTj uncovered report then?

[bobstir]

Both descriptions didn't really fit me as well as the typical MBTI descriptions do. I remember getting an INTj type a while back on their tests. The INTj does probably fit me more than the INTp description but the INTj description is still very wishy washy for me. It almost seems like an astrology kind of description where they say things that are sort of true and could apply to almost anyone.

Pissing people off thing is off
Socially handicapped is off
Fear of intimacy is off
Living in a pigsty is off

Logic bit is correct
Sarcastic remarks is correct

[Dru]

I found the descriptions to be very hit-and-miss. That is, they both hit and missed aspects of their intended targets.

All in all, no better or worse than most other one-size-fits-all definitions.

[shytiger]

The INTj description is more like me...I guess. The INTp description reminds me of some INTPs I know, especially the part about dissecting things into oblivion.

But really, they claim to use Jungian functions but have a completely different interpretation that doesn't seem to fit reality.

[elTee13]

	Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I also felt the same way. I felt ENFP/ENFp description are spot on, but not with /ENFj though. I'm still waiting for the INFj uncovered description, but it seems to me that they've been putting it on hold as this uncovered reports have been out for a while. Anyhow, what's your verdict on INTj uncovered report then?

Contrary to bobstir, I found the INTj Uncovered report to be remarkably accurate in my case.

[Chameleon]

The INTP was good; but I must add that INTPs are only okay with routine if it was created by us. Additionally, the 'whole/general' argument is bass ackwards; we focus only on learning the general/whole idea and use intuition to fill in the gaps. For example, we will learn the general meaning of a theory, and then we will debate on just that; during the debate we will use intuition to argue with. We really only think up most of the things we say seconds before speaking them; but that is not the point. The point is that we keep up with the debate to learn as much as we can from our opponent; because to us a debate is just another learning process. But back to the point, INTPs start with the sky and build their way down; and INTJs start at the ground and build their way up.

[Bobsama]

Good thing neither is a bad thing. The INTp thing was entertaining since I do dissect ideas when interested by them. I got into a whole drawn-out Q&A/argument with a past Finance professor who wouldn't clarify the various ways a mutual fund can die and insisted that I didn't understand what a mutual fund is (because I was asking about their termination...?).

[Tactical Panda]

Socionics... some of the J/P descriptions go one way, some the other, even though everyone has their opinions on what is "correct" - rather than understanding which of the types the author is actually referring to, which depends on the time and person - the age of socionics in which it was written.

The uncovered articles are... interesting, but probably not reliable.

[WindUp]

Originally Posted by Chameleon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The INTP was good; but I must add that INTPs are only okay with routine if it was created by us. Additionally, the 'whole/general' argument is bass ackwards; we focus only on learning the general/whole idea and use intuition to fill in the gaps. For example, we will learn the general meaning of a theory, and then we will debate on just that; during the debate we will use intuition to argue with. We really only think up most of the things we say seconds before speaking them; but that is not the point. The point is that we keep up with the debate to learn as much as we can from our opponent; because to us a debate is just another learning process. But back to the point, INTPs start with the sky and build their way down; and INTJs start at the ground and build their way up.

I think the point that was trying to be made is that INTps have a need for exactness in communicating that is usually not afforded by making broad generalizations.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by elTee13 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The socionics j=P/p=J thing is confusing.

I am a great fan of socionics because their system got Jung's functions right which makes it much easier to understand than MBTI: if you're a J/rational, your leading function can only be a rational function [F/T]; if you're a P/irrational, your leading function is a perceiving one [N/S]. I am still trying to figure out some of their concepts (white vs black aspects etc.)

The INTp description fits my personality the most (which would be the MBTI INTJ), as do their speculations about the physiognomy of ILIs. Moreover, it makes ISTP ISTj which would explain why my ex-bf seemed to be an MBTI ISTJ but acted like an Si-dom (and fit the ISTp uncovered description to a T).

[Crescent Fresh]

I wonder if there is any member in INTJf prefers socionics over MBTI?

I fit the description of INFj in socionics rather than INFp as they stated to change the fourth cognitive function.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wonder if there is any member in INTJf prefers socionics over MBTI?

Yes, me tbh.
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(I hope I won't be expelled now.) I like their logical arrangement of the Jungian functions. It makes so much more sense (it's consistent after all; MBTI isn't).

[Crescent Fresh]

	Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes, me tbh. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (I hope I won't be expelled now.) I like their logical arrangement of the Jungian functions. It makes so much more sense (it's consistent after all; MBTI isn't).

In that case, do you see ENFP as ENFj in socionics?

I really see INFJ/ENFP's descriptions fits as INFj/ENFp, without switching the fourth function.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by Crescent Fresh To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In that case, do you see ENFP as ENFj in socionics?

I haven't looked at the NF descriptions at all (I think the ENFP/ENFJ system matches in both worlds as far as I can remember). Would have to take a closer look to answer this question. (will check back)

NOTE: I just read the ENFp description ("the reporter") which I find pretty spot on. But as I said - for ENFP/ENFp and ENFJ/ENFj the functions match in both systems.

[AureliaSeverina]

This is very confusing. Some passages of both the INTp and INTj descriptions sound like me. Neither of them sounds very much like my INTP friend.

[elTee13]

Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am a great fan of socionics because their system got Jung's functions right which makes it much easier to understand than MBTI: if you're a J/rational, your leading function can only be a rational function [F/T]; if you're a P/irrational, your leading function is a perceiving one [N/S]. I am still trying to figure out some of their concepts (white vs black aspects etc.) The INTp description fits my personality the most (which would be the MBTI INTJ), as do their speculations about the physiognomy of ILIs. Moreover, it makes ISTP ISTj which would explain why my ex-bf seemed to be an MBTI ISTJ but acted like an Si-dom (and fit the ISTp uncovered description to a T).

Every time I compare MBTI/Kiersey/Socionics they keep pointing to INTJ/Mastermind/LII. I am certainly not INTP, nor ILI. Per Jung, I'm a J/rational with leading T. Comparing other typing, my Global 5/OCEAN is RCOEI, which correlates to INTJ, and an Enneagram result of 5w6 supports this too; yet the INTp doesn't seem to fit.

So, I just took the Socionics (Type Assistant v 1.6) test again and the results are:
Normal Mode: IxTj 0.81
Reversed Mode: INTj 0.7
Combined Mode: INTj 0.76

Yet, my MBTI and KTS results are both INTJ.

Ergo, when people say "Socionics j means MBTI P", my results contradict that. Didn't I say "Confusing?"

[benr3600]

	Originally Posted by bobstir To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Pissing people off thing is off Socially handicapped is off Fear of intimacy is off Living in a pigsty is off Logic bit is correct Sarcastic remarks is correct

To save time, I just quoted these points from the link.

Pissing people off? I have an innate ability for that, even if I consciously try not to, in some situations, for example, when I have to weight the truth vs. patronizing somebody, and I end up patronizing them anyway, which is exactly what I wanted to prevent.

Socially handicapped? Certainly. I've even been told by other INTJ's that I have "less social skills" than they do, and to be honest I have a paucity of social skills that is somewhat debilitating.

Fear of intimacy? That has marked my life starting from the late teen years, and hasn't changed as of yet, despite my conscious knowledge of the issue/problem.

Living in a pigsty? Absolutely. Despite the fact that, in communal areas, I am very organized, clean etc. my bedroom, apartment, car, etc. are the opposite. Right now I can think of at least a half-dozen things sitting on the floor of my apartment that simply shouldn't be there. Yet at work I have no problem whatsoever cleaning up after myself, and when I lived with my stepmom for a few months, and lived with roommates last year, it was the same story. I would keep the kitchen, bathroom etc. far cleaner than my bedroom.

As far as hygiene, guilty as charged. If I have the uber-rare day when I neither have to work or go to school, and I know I have no plans for that day, I will not take a shower that day probably 75% of the time; there's no point, to me, despite knowing that my oily skin will suffer that day without a shower, my scalp in particular.

Sarcastic remarks? Absolutely. I've been accused (by authority figures, of course, who apply the same things to anybody who defies their bullshit) being "passive-aggressive" in my sarcastic retorts, and had an INTJ female tell me that my "sarcasm cuts the deepest."

[shytiger]

Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I am a great fan of socionics because their system got Jung's functions right which makes it much easier to understand than MBTI: if you're a J/rational, your leading function can only be a rational function [F/T]; if you're a P/irrational, your leading function is a perceiving one [N/S]. I am still trying to figure out some of their concepts (white vs black aspects etc.) The INTp description fits my personality the most (which would be the MBTI INTJ), as do their speculations about the physiognomy of ILIs. Moreover, it makes ISTP ISTj which would explain why my ex-bf seemed to be an MBTI ISTJ but acted like an Si-dom (and fit the ISTp uncovered description to a T).

I find the description of Te users in socionics to be biased (probably because the system was created by Ti users who don't seem to like Te). There is this impression that Te makes people very negative, but that is not my experience. Ti users love to complain and criticize aplenty. It just has a different source.

For my part, the gamma quadra description is very fitting but the INTp "insurance salesman" stereotype and the INTj "scientist/mathematician" stereotype are just silly. There is generally a big difference in IQ between an insurance salesperson and a scientist or mathematician which makes the two not very comparable. It would be more fitting to give the INTj example as an optometrist or maybe a programmer.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by shytiger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For my part, the gamma quadra description is very fitting but the INTp "insurance salesman" stereotype and the INTj "scientist/mathematician" stereotype are just silly. It would be more fitting to give the INTj example as an optometrist or maybe a programmer.

So, who is criticizing now?
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NOTE: I can relate to their "insurance salesperson" analogy a lot because I have learned to dress well (or, say, I have learned to appreciate appropriate clothes and I enjoy design and matching colors) and people usually take me seriously because I have learned to come across as serious and reliable (by means of outer appearance and word choice) even though I am an unpunctual clown at heart.

	they may wash their hands more often than others do.

Check. Just the other day I have bought an automatic touch-less soap dispenser with antibacterial liquid soap.

	INTps are very sceptical to others who are undertaking new beginnings. They are able to pour cold water on others burning enthusiasm.

Check. If you want to hear a "no" and elaborate reasons why I don't think your idea is feasible (yes, dear co-worker, you forgot to consider the implications), come and tell me about it.

	Their eyes have a sorrowful look about them as if they are about to be victimised in some way.

Check. Years ago a fellow student once told me I always looked like I was about to cry.

[TheoReticle]

I was particularly annoyed at the insistence that the INTp(INTJ) types abhor trends ( as in PERCEIVING trends) and generality. Ni seems to be particularly good at "seeing the whole", even if it is in a way which appears unruly or unprincipled.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by TheoReticle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was particularly annoyed at the insistence that the INTp(INTJ) types abhor trends and generality.

But we do. I didn't have a cell phone for years (even while working for a service provider), I deleted my fb account and I really dislike/avoid mainstream stuff on purpose. However, INTps are usually the first to try new things (before they become a trend).

	INTps may check that all home appliances are off many times before leaving.

Check. Once in a while I go back to check whether I switched the lights off or closed the fridge's door.

[shytiger]

Originally Posted by masterpeach To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So, who is criticizing now? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. NOTE: I can relate to their "insurance salesperson" analogy a lot because I have learned to dress well (or, say, I have learned to appreciate appropriate clothes and I enjoy design and matching colors) and people usually take me seriously because I have learned to come across as serious and reliable (by means of outer appearance and word choice) even though I am an unpunctual clown at heart.

Well deserved criticism!
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People criticise Isabel Myers a lot but at least that NF saw beauty in every type.

	Check. Just the other day I have bought an automatic touch-less soap dispenser with antibacterial liquid soap.

Not really. Oh, not a bad idea...although I once told a very OCD-ish (scheduled her life in 15 minute increments) INTJ that I sometimes used hand sanitizer in lieu of washing my hands in the winter to avoid getting my hands dried out. She was horrified. Simply horrified.

	Check. If you want to hear a "no" and elaborate reasons why I don't think your idea is feasible (yes, dear co-worker, you forgot to consider the implications), come and tell me about it.

I feel like I don't do this because my curiosity gets the better of me and I think, "hmm, this will probably fail but it would be interesting to see the fallout. Go forward, dear coworker while I watch from a distance and take notes."

	Check. Years ago a fellow student once told me I always looked like I was about to cry.

I had an INFP friend in high school who was always asking me what's wrong.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by shytiger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	that I sometimes used hand sanitizer in lieu of washing my hands in the winter to avoid getting my hands dried out.

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Well, "Mens sana in corpore sano". I can't stand being sick, so I will do anything to avoid it.

As for washing hands: Just the other day I watched a (Bulgarian) girl running into the ladies' restroom, slamming the doors, talking on the phone while peeing, cleaning her xxx, leaving the restroom without cleaning her hands... I thought about the items (door knobs, keyboards!!!) she will probably have touched on her way back to her desk :s

	Originally Posted by shytiger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I feel like I don't do this because my curiosity gets the better of me and I think, "hmm, this will probably fail but it would be interesting to see the fallout. Go forward, dear coworker while I watch from a distance and take notes."

Well, we are observers after all and usually capable of predicting what will happen/go wrong. Oh, how we hate to be right, don't we?
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