[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by Shadizar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You also miss the point; number of lovers is subjective. If you've had 5 lovers in your life, and never been married; one man might think you a frigid prude, another might think perfect, while yet another will think you're a slut. Intent makes no difference, values are worthless, and your attitude itself is a deal breaker.

If a guy thinks I'm a frigid prude, more power to him. He should write me off because we're not compatible. I think it's better to rule someone out based on their behavior, than their eye color or height or something. You're not going to appeal to everyone.

[Shoshana]

	Originally Posted by JustMel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Or it implies that they enjoy sex.

I enjoy sex with an emotional connection and prefer to be with someone who feels the same. Someone with that many partners obviously doesn't thus I see a difference in emotional compatibility. I've met men who do this and I don't get their casual approach to sex...doesn't turn me on. Can't pretend to be orgasming on this one...sorreee..

Why is Shadizar feeling so defensive about this???

---------- Post added 09-23-2011 at 05:23 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If a guy thinks I'm a frigid prude, more power to him. He should write me off because we're not compatible. I think it's better to rule someone out based on their behavior, than their eye color or height or something. You're not going to appeal to everyone.

hear hear...I'm all about the behavior!

[Bluesea]

The number would not put me off initially it would make me curious. I would need more information before deciding what reaction to it I would have. The reasons for the number of people would interest me, whether he had any longer relationships within this as well, his sexual decisions in those relationships and reasons for these. Due to sleeping with this number of people what was his take on the whole sex and relationship thing now. This would give me some more insight into his character and attitude to women, relationships, and sex. From this I could gauge whether we had the same values and ideas about it. Or whether the differences were so great there would be a risk of being hurt by this person if I got in too deep.

Although I don't think it is a right of a woman to know how many, it is a question that can create more intimacy and there is no harm in asking and giving this information in my view and both people sharing this information. I think people probably feel defensive about it if they imagine they will be judged negatively when they disclose. This is probably pointing more to how they feel about it themselves in terms of what they think average social morality prescribes [or their own morals and upbringing] and how much they think they have deviated from this themselves.

It is a good test question - if the person judges you and goes off you, and does not get the journey, the insights, learning along the way, and where you are at now with it all, they are probably not going to be very satisfying people to be in relationship with.

[Shadizar]

	Originally Posted by Shoshana To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why is Shadizar feeling so defensive about this???

It's because of the expectation of disclosing sexual history to a potential permanent partner within the early stages of a relationship. Granted lust drives us in the early stages; but then, that's the point I'm stabbing at. This particular issue is little different from expecting a trans to disclose what they physically used to be; probably a history that the person wishes to put behind them.

Let me put it this way, a black woman and a white man hook up; and the woman finds out that the man used to be a member of the KKK. The fact that he no longer is in the KKK doesn't matter, she dumps him for that history. It doesn't make sense to me.

[PurpleGiraffe]

No, I wouldn't and haven't. Sex is important to me, and I want someone who feels that way about it too. Plus, it just grosses me out to think about the chain of sex where one person has had sex with these 15 people who have had sex with these 50 who have had sex with another 75, and on and on. I don't know. It just grosses me the fuck out. Judge if you want, but it's my opinion and really in this particular instance of my response (and personal preference) then it's all that matters.

[Senseofrelief]

I would suggest that female find a guy who has some experience in real relationships, and not pursue the guy who is chasing skirts at the bar and paying for sex.

Any guy that has encounters in the hundreds has either not connected with the odd decent girl he has hooked up with, or sees no point in it. It's telling.

Nothing like past results to dictate future behavior...if you see a guy handling his love life nicely, with some experience under his belt, chances are things will go smooth.

[JackCY]

IMHO it's fine to ask and be asked. Why not? Why hold any secrets? If you don't want to maybe you don't like what you did in the past. Afraid to be judged? Confidence problems?

Sure the number itself might imply certain things, but every sensible person will want to know why and won't go crazy about it.

You share information about your self and grow closer to each other, I don't understand why hold this information as a secret. Maybe neither of you want to know it and never ask it.

But high numbers seem like they value sex more than relationships, their relationships are of short duration, etc.
If you're looking for a long term relationship why would you go for somebody who jumps from bed to bed? (They have changed, haha, sure once they saw you they decided to stop... what they have been doing and are used to for years.)
It's not just the number it's also the history of the number.

[ricearoni]

I just wouldn't want to know unless I've known/been with the guy for a long time (and even then, I probably still wouldn't ask). In the early stages, it'll just gross me out. I know the past doesn't matter, but thinking about such things isn't pleasant and raises all sorts of insecurities. But for some reason, when I've known the guy for awhile finding that stuff out isn't so bad.

[mastermind23]

	Although I don't think it is a right of a woman to know how many,

Why not? Her own well being can be heavily tied to this information, if she choses to enter into a serious relationship with him- examples: her emotional well-being - his numbers illustrate much about him (his values, views on relationships, etc.), her physical well-being (being that STDs are more likely in a person with high number). Does she not have a right to be informed on something that, if she choses to enter into a serious relationship with this guy, might have a huge bearing to her?

	Let me put it this way, a black woman and a white man hook up; and the woman finds out that the man used to be a member of the KKK. The fact that he no longer is in the KKK doesn't matter, she dumps him for that history. It doesn't make sense to me.

It doesn't make sense to you because it seems that you are going off of a very idealistic viewpoint of 'the past has no bearing on the present', and this is rarely the case. The past illustrates the capabilities and mores of the present, usually via continuation, whether implicitly or explicitally - the mentality rarely changes dramatically.

	I know the past doesn't matter

That's where you're wrong - the past does matter.

[Shoshana]

	Originally Posted by Shadizar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Let me put it this way, a black woman and a white man hook up; and the woman finds out that the man used to be a member of the KKK. The fact that he no longer is in the KKK doesn't matter, she dumps him for that history. It doesn't make sense to me.

Well, jaysus christ you just made my point for me. I'm not black and there is no way, no how I'd ever date a man who was once in the KKK. Unless he was someone who committed his life to making up for that former transgression by becoming an activist against racism. Then...maybe...but I'd still have worries about a tendency to be an idealogue. Capiche?

Baggage, baby, baggage.

---------- Post added 09-24-2011 at 08:12 AM ----------

INTJs sometimes don't have a good grasp on human nature. And let me qualify this statement by saying that I'm going to have to tackle this issue in real life today-- thus it's numero uno on my radar.

[JustMel]

	Originally Posted by Shoshana To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I enjoy sex with an emotional connection and prefer to be with someone who feels the same. Someone with that many partners obviously doesn't thus I see a difference in emotional compatibility. I've met men who do this and I don't get their casual approach to sex...doesn't turn me on. Can't pretend to be orgasming on this one...sorreee..

Who says that just because he liked sex ten years ago that he won't have and maintain an emotional connection with you and he does feel the same now. With you. I get that you feel strongly about this subject and respect it, it just doesn't resonate with me. If you met a guy who had been with many women but you didn't know that and he lied about the number because he liked you that much, you fell for him, got married/serious whatever, and had been together ten years and then you found out the number would you end the relationship based on a lie he told ten years earlier?

Before someone jumps up and swears they are always honest with their partner about everything let me tell you about real life. Everyone lies at some point to someone, even the person you're closest to. You will not find a couple who has been together long term who hasn't stretched the truth, outright lied, etc. Not that the relationship isn't good or that you don't respect the person but you lie. Doesn't matter if it's a "white" lie or a "serious" lie, it happens. "Honey, how's dinner" "I loved it" (lie) "Did you pay that bill" "Yes" (lie, they forgot but they're jumping online to pay it now) etc. There are no degrees of lying. A l

Past is past. Say you have a person who had sex with 50 people in their teens/early 20s during their party stage. They didn't want a serious relationship but they liked sex. They were safe. They meet a person, fall in love, get married/serious. ten years go by and they've had sex with one person but their number is still 51 at the age of 32, 35, 50, 65. Or say their number was 100 same scenario.

---------- Post added 09-24-2011 at 10:41 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by JackCY To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	IMHO it's fine to ask and be asked. Why not? Why hold any secrets? If you don't want to maybe you don't like what you did in the past. Afraid to be judged? Confidence problems?

Or perhaps they believe that the people who have been in their bed are their business. If my husband wanted to know I'd tell him but he doesn't care about my number anymore than I care about his. We've been together seven years and have known one another since high school so we have a pretty good grasp anyway. Neither of us claims to have been an angel and it's a non-issue.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by mastermind23 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	That's where you're wrong - the past does matter.

Uh...no. It's your opinion that it matters. It's my opinion that it doesn't.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Shoshana To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I enjoy sex with an emotional connection and prefer to be with someone who feels the same. Someone with that many partners obviously doesn't thus I see a difference in emotional compatibility.

People learn and change. A man may be promiscuous when he's young, but decide he desires a more intense emotional connection when he gets older. Same for women.

Past performance isn't indicative of anything but past performance. There isn't necessarily a correlation between past behavior and future behavior.

And, actually, the stock market legal disclaimer that's been referenced on this thread has been repeatedly misquoted. It actually says: "Past performance is no guarantee of future earnings."

[TheoReticle]

As a heterosexual male, I don't really have an opinion on this matter. However, I've speculated that perhaps a female might be more understanding of ( and even more intrigued by) a promiscuous male, despite the fact that I think the inverse would be less likely. A male's capacity to acquire females is usually an ACTIVE act as opposed to a PASSIVE act, in my opinion. I could see how the notion of a sexually successful male could indicate power, skill, confidence etc. in the eyes of a female. When you're a male, you're not as enchanted by a female's capacity to acquire dudes. What this reads as to most men, i presume, is this: this female has no standards; has had many penises inside of her; has that many more penises that she's going to implicitly compare to mine; has experienced more things than me; is jaded; is harder to please; is more likely to cheat on me.

I'm not saying that there doesn't exist any overlap here in regards to reasons women would have to feel the same way towards men, however.

In the past, and to a certain degree in the present, I used to become highly threatened by male competitors in relation to female prospects. Consequently, I would feel uncomfortable around women who had allowed themselves to submit to many men. Consequently, I would sometimes adopt anger-based misogynistic attitudes towards certain women, casting many of them off as being "whores" or "cheap", along with a variety of other unsavory labels.

[Shadizar]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And, actually, the stock market legal disclaimer that's been referenced on this thread has been repeatedly misquoted. It actually says: "Past performance is no guarantee of future earnings."

I don't think it was a stock market disclaimer they were fucking up, but a war monger's declaration of fact.

[catzmeow]

Originally Posted by TheoReticle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As a heterosexual male, I don't really have an opinion on this matter. However, I've speculated that perhaps a female might be more understanding of ( and even more intrigued by) a promiscuous male, despite the fact that I think the inverse would be less likely. A male's capacity to acquire females is usually an ACTIVE act as opposed to a PASSIVE act, in my opinion. I could see how the notion of a sexually successful male could indicate power, skill, confidence etc. in the eyes of a female. When you're a male, you're not as enchanted by a female's capacity to acquire dudes. What this reads as to most men, i presume, is this: this female has no standards; has had many penises inside of her; has that many more penises that she's going to implicitly compare to mine; has experienced more things than me; is jaded; is harder to please; is more likely to cheat on me. I'm not saying that there doesn't exist any overlap here in regards to reasons women would have to feel the same way towards men, however. In the past, and to a certain degree in the present, I used to become highly threatened by male competitors in relation to female prospects. Consequently, I would feel uncomfortable around women who had allowed themselves to submit to many men. Consequently, I would sometimes adopt anger-based misogynistic attitudes towards certain women, casting many of them off as being "whores" or "cheap", along with a variety of other unsavory labels.

A few facts about women and sex...

In many cases, women are sexual aggressors (SHOCKERS!), not just submissive semen receptacles. Some men even like it when we are active participants versus passive receivers. Amazing stuff, right?

We are aware of the differences and similarities between your penis and those of other men. Interestingly enough, I think my fiance's penis is perfect, the most perfect penis I've ever seen. I wouldn't know exactly how perfect his penis is if I had zero basis for comparison. It's possible that I admire his penis even more because I realize (because of that basis for comparison) exactly how perfect it actually is.

We are more concerned with what you can do with your penis than with comparing your penis to that of other men.

Being insecure about a woman's past makes you look more weak and ineffectual than almost anything else you can do.

[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And, actually, the stock market legal disclaimer that's been referenced on this thread has been repeatedly misquoted. It actually says: "Past performance is no guarantee of future earnings."

This legal disclaimer is not what I was quoting. I was quoting investment advice that is frequently given. ""Past performance is the best predictor of future performance."

Of course, even the "best indicator" is no guarantee, and we live in a litigious society, so the disclaimer is necessary, and both can be correct.

A bank will want to check your credit history before loaning you money. A company will want to check your references and background before hiring you. A landlord will want to know where you lived before he rents you a room. There is nothing wrong with having the knowledge to make an informed decision. Of course people can change, but they often don't, or they do so very slowly and/or very slightly. Some people do grow up though. Or they go through a phase and move on. The past doesn't perfectly predict the future, but many think it is the best predictor.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The past doesn't perfectly predict the future, but many think it is the best predictor.

Feel free to let us all know how that strategy is working out for you, in practice.

[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Feel free to let us all know how that strategy is working out for you, in practice.

I'm not complaining about my life, even if others feel I should. I'm happy with the decisions I have made.

I own my dream house, I have traveled the world. I have lived and worked in four countries on three continents. I have close bonds with a loving and supportive family. Someone thought I was a young college student today, even though I am 48. I've lived in downtown Chicago with a view of the lake. I once lived in the Marina district in San Francisco with a view of the Golden Gate Bridge. I have a lot to be happy about.

[TheoReticle]

	Originally Posted by catzmeow To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A few facts about women and sex... In many cases, women are sexual aggressors (SHOCKERS!)

Many, but not most. This much should be obvious.

	not just submissive semen receptacles.

I agree. They sometimes exist as something above and beyond receptacles for semen.

	I think my fiance's penis is perfect

I'm trying to decide what emoticon would be the best TOO MUCH INFORMATION emoticon.. I'm going to go with this one:
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	Being insecure about a woman's past makes you look more weak and ineffectual than almost anything else you can do.

There is a difference between being discerning and insecure. I wouldn't characterize my decision not to consume spoiled milk or bruised fruit as "insecurity" so much as "cautious discernment" maybe even "prudence". I apply similar approaches to the aforementioned "semen receptacles" you referred to.

If those analogies don't work. Let's think about articles of clothing. Sure, the more tarnished and used a pair of shoes are, the cheaper they are. But is that really optimal?

[Shadizar]

I disagree TheoRetical.

Just because a "semen receptacle" has had many lovers, doesn't necessarily mean they were indiscriminant, or even had a low emotional value to sex. It could mean that they saw it as a form of bonding; as there are many people who have many many friends, if you can seal ties some of them, well, why not?
You use the analogies of spoiled milk and bruised fruit. I don't think you understand your own arguments. I'm going to assume that you buy milk products; thus you buy sour creme, cheese, yogurt, etc. I'll also assume you buy fruit and vegetable products; have you not heard about wines and ciders and whiskey? All of these rely on impurity. Point of fact, if you ate fruits that are too pure, you'll suffer from the shits.

[AnaK]

This thread was asking if someone would be turned off if their potential mate had been with a lot of people before them. I think the responses will be subjective and personal opinion. There is no "right" way to live your life. The point is to find a compatible mate who shares your values. You don't need the world to approve of your past, just your SO, or have an SO who doesn't care. One person's bruised fruit is another man's wine.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by TheoReticle To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Many, but not most. This much should be obvious.

I suspect that your generalizations spring from a lack of experience.

	I agree. They sometimes exist as something above and beyond receptacles for semen.

Only sometimes? :eye roll:

There is a difference between being discerning and insecure. I wouldn't characterize my decision not to consume spoiled milk or bruised fruit as "insecurity" so much as "cautious discernment" maybe even "prudence". I apply similar approaches to the aforementioned "semen receptacles" you referred to. If those analogies don't work. Let's think about articles of clothing. Sure, the more tarnished and used a pair of shoes are, the cheaper they are. But is that really optimal?

A woman can sleep with 50 men and look/feel exactly the same as a woman who's slept with 5(same for a man). The only difference is likely be in the level of skill/comfort in the art of sex, and sometimes you can't even tell from that.

If you don't ask the number, you will never know the difference. And, if you do ask the number, you look like a tool.

Here's another truth about women and sex. Sometimes, the ones who look the most superficially innocent--aren't.

[Shadizar]

I would like to point out, that most people above the age of 25 will have already been the "victim" of contributing to the fuck count of said players. That is to say, if you met somebody and had sexual relations with them as their 10th lover, some ten years ago and had a fall out over something other than the sex; and now you meet someone who will make you their 51st lover; what makes the previous player any different for the current player if the intent is an actual relationship in both situations and not just a body count?
Take for instance the "player's" choice in lovers. Excuse the following example; the neighbor chick in the sitcom Big Bang Theory, who had several relationships with jocks who is currently in a steady relationship with a geek. Can you honestly make a judgement on such people view of sex, when their only crime was to have piss poor taste in partners?

[rahdam]

Remove the gender specificity for a moment

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If you love someone, you love someone.
What they've done holds little to who they are now.