[rain]

I've only known 2 INFJ women, and both were very flakey, unreliable and typically liked to talk about themselves 24/7, mostly about you giving validation for their physical appearance.

It was exhausting to spend anything more than 30 min with them. They were annoying as hell, and nitpicked everything you said and would psychoanalyse to death.

One was a model who turned into a drug addict. And the other was a designer who would always say "I want to have kids, I'm ready to have kids" to all the men she'd just met.

They both utterly lacked common sense, but both thought they were "psychic". The thing was they were completely clueless about everything, including the people around them.

[ArtistTyrant]

i used to have a very close friend, or something like it, that was an INFJ

when we got along, everything was great and we could talk about anything, but if she had any self doubts, she wasn't rude, she was utterly cruel, trying to hurt the feelings of others without regard for the consequences...kind of a total attention whore too

[dungeonguy88]

	Originally Posted by Uytuun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	From my - admittedly limited - experience, one thing immediately springs to mind: you're so insecure.

I was going to write up a long, thorough, and precise post explaining my past experiences with confirmed INFJs and with others that I suspect to be INFJs...but you took all the fun out of it by summing it up so succinctly.

[freeeekyyy]

I don't think I've ever actually met any INFJs, but knowing how certain INTJs can be about being correct no matter what, I'm willing to bet that INFJs have a problem with feeling that their emotions are right no matter what. If that's the case, I would find that very annoying.

[Scatterbrane]

	Originally Posted by Deliberator
	To answer your question, I only became emotional when the INFJ made assumptions that I was offended by his argument from the get-go (the INFJ was using only context to make this assumption, and was wrong, I'm afraid). This angered me, and I left the argument highly irritated and, ironically, rather offended!

I've got to stop doing this, and variations there of. It's embarassing to realize in reflection that you've made an argument of reason into one of emotion, accomplishing nothing of value in the process.
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	Originally Posted by rain
	They both utterly lacked common sense, but both thought they were "psychic". The thing was they were completely clueless about everything, including the people around them.

I've seen it claimed that INFJs of all types are most prone to think they have ESP of some kind.

Relatedly, Ni tends to feel like a paranormal revelation, as if there is no true reasoning behind its conclusions, as if it comes out of nowhere and can not be related to anything directly observable.

	Originally Posted by freeeekyyy
	I'm willing to bet that INFJs have a problem with feeling that their emotions are right no matter what. If that's the case, I would find that very annoying.

That statement just doesn't feel right.
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[Reon]

I'm an INXJ at the moment and I hang out on the some other forum, so my post might be biased. I noticed that INFJs are emotional but are more likely than other F's to claim that they are being very logical when acting absurd. They can also whine a lot, they tend to have misanthropic tendencies. Can hold grudges. Can be selfish when it comes to people (This is hard to explain but it's along the lines of how people feel about them can greatly influence how they view themselves(This could be SF peepz though), so they find people who they know they can please so that they will be happy; not because they truly care about people) Another thing is that they let people influence their perception of themselves.

A thing I want to add is that most of the "INFJs" I know are teenagers (personality is malleable) from a particular site based on INFJs, and I am a bit more biased than others on this subject

[freeeekyyy]

Originally Posted by Reon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I'm an INXJ at the moment and I hang out on the some other forum, so my post might be biased. I noticed that INFJs are emotional but are more likely than other F's to claim that they are being very logical when acting absurd. They can also whine a lot, they tend to have misanthropic tendencies. Can hold grudges. Can be selfish when it comes to people (This is hard to explain but it's along the lines of how people feel about them can greatly influence how they view themselves(This could be SF peepz though), so they find people who they know they can please so that they will be happy; not because they truly care about people) Another thing is that they let people influence their perception of themselves. A thing I want to add is that most of the "INFJs" I know are teenagers (personality is malleable) from a particular site based on INFJs, and I am a bit more biased than others on this subject

If what you're saying is right, it confirms my suspicions of INFJs trusting how they feel to be an accurate view of what's true. Of course, it's probably immature INFJs, not just any INFJs, that are like this. All the types have their potential faults, of course.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by Reon To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm an INXJ at the moment and I hang out on the some other forum, so my post might be biased. I noticed that INFJs are emotional but are more likely than other F's to claim that they are being very logical when acting absurd.

One persons definition of absurd...

	They can also whine a lot, they tend to have misanthropic tendencies.

Yes

	Can hold grudges.

At least with me it is not so much that we hold grudges as much as we believe people are unlikely to change. Thus fool me once...

	Can be selfish when it comes to people (This is hard to explain but it's along the lines of how people feel about them can greatly influence how they view themselves(This could be SF peepz though), so they find people who they know they can please so that they will be happy; not because they truly care about people) Another thing is that they let people influence their perception of themselves.

Sadly, more then we would care to admit.
[/QUOTE]

	A thing I want to add is that most of the "INFJs" I know are teenagers (personality is malleable) from a particular site based on INFJs, and I am a bit more biased than others on this subject

Yes that particular site can be a bit emo and crazy filled at times. That is why I prefer this one
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Young INFJ's are the embodiment of emotional and crazy when brought together in large numbers.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by freeeekyyy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If what you're saying is right, it confirms my suspicions of INFJs trusting how they feel to be an accurate view of what's true. Of course, it's probably immature INFJs, not just any INFJs, that are like this. All the types have their potential faults, of course.

Yoda (the very embodiment of INFJ) didn't become Grand Master Jedi until he was already several hundred years old.

But anyway, this self-trust is a feature, not a fault.

[WaeV]

I have a lot of respect for INFJs because I spent the longest time trying to be more like them. (I was under the impression that I needed to balance my F or something.)

It's interesting, because their Ni makes them similar to INTJs, yet their Fe makes them so different. I would define pretty much everyone that I care about as part of my 'self'. By helping them I am being 'selfish'. The corollary to this would be defining oneself as part of the group By helping anyone in this group an INFJ is being 'selfless'. I can't confirm or deny that, but it seems to partially fit how they behave. There's much more to it, at the very least.

In my opinion, the most mature INTJs and INFJs are quite alike. I don't think that 'selfish' is better than 'selfless' any more than T is better than F.

I love pretty much anyone that uses Ni, so...
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[miyukisama]

Feelings shouldn't be ignored. My INFJ friend usually gives me advices that make no sense and have nothing to back them up with, but after I sort it out myself she turns out to be right.

The problem with following Feeling is that it's very confusing to understand what exactly it's trying to say, specially when it's affected negatively by Fear from enviromental and past experiences influences.

My Feeling preference is very low, I have 75% thinking, but since I am 100% Introvert I can usually stay in touch with what goes on inside of me and my Fi.

So when something gives me a 'hmm, this feels fishy' kind of feeling, I double-check stuff just in case, and I'm often glad I followed my hunches.

If a INFJ could learn to tune in to their feelings accurately, they wouldn't have to spend so much time sorting things out with Thinking like I have to do. They could just 'use the force'. 8D

INFJs rule.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by miyukisama To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The problem with following Feeling is that it's very confusing to understand what exactly it's trying to say, specially when it's affected negatively by Fear from enviromental and past experiences influences.

Yes but if you can learn to recognize fear you can then ignore it. Make sense?

	If a INFJ could learn to tune in to their feelings accurately, they wouldn't have to spend so much time sorting things out with Thinking like I have to do. They could just 'use the force'. 8D

I think this is the goal of most INFJ's.

	INFJs rule.

:D

[miyukisama]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes but if you can learn to recognize fear you can then ignore it. Make sense? I think this is the goal of most INFJ's. :D

Heh, definitely.

I find that meditation and some teas help clear-out some of the feeling 'noise' to be able to hear more clearly what the feeling is trying to say. Have you tried this?

My INTJ fiancee is more of a feeler than me so he's more into the spiritual world (not to be confused with religion) so he can pick up emotional intelligence better than me. I find it amazing. :D

I tried for a while to reach in to my Ni and was able to pick up some colors and temperatures that managed to be very close to the things I was trying to intuitively 'guess'. But it was so tiring I discontinued the training, it's not my area. XD

Go you tho! I'll be cheering you on! Then you can give me the lotto numbers, yes? 8D

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by miyukisama To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If a INFJ could learn to tune in to their feelings accurately, they wouldn't have to spend so much time sorting things out with Thinking like I have to do. They could just 'use the force'. 8D

It's not so much about being able to tune into them as it is about having the courage to trust them without any reservation. In non-critical situations, I do tend to think too much and it sometimes leads me astray. But when the shit is about to hit the fan, I don't think because I can't afford to think. I can and do "use the force" (if that's how you want to call it) to protect as many people as possible. And if I can protect nobody but myself, it takes me a very long time to get over that guilt. Of course, if people aren't just innocent bystanders, they deserve exactly what they get and there is no guilt at all.

[JTG]

They're pretty much INTJs except with emotion swapped in for logic. They have the same intuitiveness. While an INTJ is decisive with a focus on logic, an INFJ is decisive with a focus on emotion.

We gather information with Ni and use our minds to make decisions. They gather information with Ni and use their hearts.

[alphawolf]

This is an INTJ within a few minutes of meeting someone for the first time:

You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, Agent Starling? And that accent you've tried so desperately to shed: pure West Virginia. What is your father, dear? Is he a coal miner? Does he stink of the lamp? You know how quickly the boys found you... all those tedious sticky fumblings in the back seats of cars... while you could only dream of getting out... getting anywhere... getting all the way to the FBI.

How does an INTJ perceive that an INFJ would have sized her up?

[JTG]

It's hard to say, because Lecter was doing something that i've personally only seen INTJs and INTPs do. He was probing her by trying to shake her up and listen for what rattled. A tirade like that is definitely indicative of an NT with a chip on his shoulder.

From an INFJ it probably would have been a really gregarious (or bitter, depending on mood) talk about how he felt, and how she felt, and how lovely it was to get an FBI investigator seeking his help for such an important case.

[Sinequanon]

Originally Posted by JTG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's hard to say, because Lecter was doing something that i've personally only seen INTJs and INTPs do. He was probing her by trying to shake her up and listen for what rattled. A tirade like that is definitely indicative of an NT with a chip on his shoulder. From an INFJ it probably would have been a really gregarious (or bitter, depending on mood) talk about how he felt, and how she felt, and how lovely it was to get an FBI investigator seeking his help for such an important case.

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Would the INFJ also traipse through flowers holding the FBI investigator's hand, too?
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You guys have some weird conceptions of what INFJs do/are.

[JTG]

I'll admit i do. Most of the F types i'm close to are FPs, so they have that same Te/Fi thing that i do. Fe types are often difficult for me to handle just because i am so emotionally (in a social sense) inept. My best friend is ESFJ, but it's hardly fair to compare that jerk to the lovable NFs of the forum :P

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by JTG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'll admit i do. Most of the F types i'm close to are FPs, so they have that same Te/Fi thing that i do. Fe types are often difficult for me to handle just because i am so emotionally (in a social sense) inept. My best friend is ESFJ, but it's hardly fair to compare that jerk to the lovable NFs of the forum :P

But we understand that you are inept and therefore we don't care. Its only if you were intentionally inept that we would be upset.

---------- Post added 02-13-2010 at 12:27 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by JTG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's hard to say, because Lecter was doing something that i've personally only seen INTJs and INTPs do. He was probing her by trying to shake her up and listen for what rattled. A tirade like that is definitely indicative of an NT with a chip on his shoulder.

I can but prefer not to do that.

	From an INFJ it probably would have been a really gregarious (or bitter, depending on mood) talk about how he felt, and how she felt, and how lovely it was to get an FBI investigator seeking his help for such an important case.

Well people are much easier to upset via feelings then insults. With the exception of the people on this board.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by JohnDoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well people are much easier to upset via feelings then insults. With the exception of the people on this board.

The thing is: he wasn't trying to upset her at all, he was building rapport with her because he knew that she was just a pawn and that his analysis wouldn't hurt her (she was also an INTJ).

[JTG]

Now i think you guys are guilty of misunderstanding an INTJ haha... "building rapport" is an F thing while "probing for information" is a T thing.

I've seen it before and done it myself a few times. I'm pretty positive Lecter's intent was to understand his target better by giving her a shake and seeing what came loose. People are more honest when startled, or when you say something that strikes a nerve. He knew she would be coming to him with a guarded demeanor, so he wanted to jar her (using a combination of his intimidating reputation and his intuitive grasp of her own insecurities) with the intent of shaking loose the facade of calm she was presenting so that he could see deeper into her.

[JohnDoe]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The thing is: he wasn't trying to upset her at all, he was building rapport with her because he knew that she was just a pawn and that his analysis wouldn't hurt her (she was also an INTJ).

I'm not familiar with the scene, but that makes better sense then. That "lets describe you logically thing" seems to be common with the INTJ's I've met.

[alphawolf]

Originally Posted by JTG To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Now i think you guys are guilty of misunderstanding an INTJ haha... "building rapport" is an F thing while "probing for information" is a T thing. I've seen it before and done it myself a few times. I'm pretty positive Lecter's intent was to understand his target better by giving her a shake and seeing what came loose. People are more honest when startled, or when you say something that strikes a nerve. He knew she would be coming to him with a guarded demeanor, so he wanted to jar her (using a combination of his intimidating reputation and his intuitive grasp of her own insecurities) with the intent of shaking loose the facade of calm she was presenting so that he could see deeper into her.

I don't know... I'm a conspiracy theorist. I think he already had her and his plan figured out before he ever met her. I'd be willing to bet that he coerced the dude in the next cell to shoot jizz on her just so he could pretend to spite him and offer to help her, the "spite" act being a form of manipulation. Of course, she probably understood it, but they were "dancing" in order to each achieve their goal from the other. That's how I see it.

[JTG]

The scene is
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.

For the first half or so, he's feeling her out. He purposefully (i believe) speaks and behaves in a creepy manner to keep her on edge, so that she focuses more on his mannerisms than her own. He's working Se and Ni to their fullest to try to encapsulate her in his mind, to understand her as completely as he can before he has exhausted possibilities based on the cues she broadcasts. After that he wants to dig deeper, so (at 5:45 in the video) he startles her with scarily accurate rudeness. She tries to strike back, but the Force isn't as strong with her. At the end, he calls her back to give her something she wants, because scaring her off means he loses his chance to have an intellectual plaything. If she comes back then he at least gets a mind to pick.

You are correct in saying that the rudeness was not intended to insult or hurt her. Rather, the rudeness is a means toward the end of gathering more information about her. By understanding the nature of the agent sent to question him, he understands more about how her superior views him. Above, when i said an INFJ would take a different approach, i meant more along the lines of such rudeness would be against their nature because of the chance of offending the target with such honesty.

An INTJ wouldn't care so much about the possibility of her taking offense, because his goal is the information, not the establishment of good relations.

Also, on the Miggs thing, i believe Lecter already probably knew about his nature and would have used that to press Starling's buttons. However, the jizz thing is incredibly rude (by INTJ standards, which is to say probably for different reasons than other people would find it rude) and i can't help but wonder if it enraged the good doctor so much that he pressed Miggs's buttons to the point of causing his death. INTJs exhibit introverted Feeling, so we do have strong ethical codes, unorthodox as they may be. I'd be lying if i said i haven't had to resist the urge to destroy an enemy who has committed a grievous sin. Lecter's already behind glass, so what does he have to lose? No motivation to keep the monster locked inside.