[Cooper]

Our situation is very complicated and it is difficult for us to be together the way we want, but I don't think it is impossible. Its just going to take some time and some difficult decisions/actions. She will sometimes see it as so difficult that it is impossible. This is when things go sideways for a few hours, until I can get her to see that its just going to take some time.

She does not think twice about bringing something up that is bothering her....

[Cleawox]

I love my journalist. She is the gregarious, bright light. Sometimes she doesn't get my alone time; that's the toughest thing. I love the match overall. Communication is crystal clear, which is a requirement. We have been through it all personally and professionally and she has been a rock.
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[catzmeow]

Originally Posted by Merryn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's not typical ENFP behavior to go from one extreme to another. That's a sign of instability. Yes, ENFPs can be quiet and introspective and we don't like to be pushed to come out of it until we're ready. But, if we love someone we're usually trying to emotionally evolve so we don't hurt them. Not sure what the other NF's would say but that whole "impossible" thing doesn't sound right to me. I think we tend more toward ridiculous optimism.

I agree with this, as well. If anything, I have a tendency to dismiss difficulties and say that they will just work out. And 9 times out of 10, they do.

Does she come from a history of having difficulties with relationships? It takes a lot for me to lose my cockeyed optimism. However, I come from a relationship where my ex cheated repeatedly and was pretty crappy in general. When I first started dating my guy, I had these moments of freaking out where I would panic that he just wasn't that into me. And I'd go to him, panicking, and tell him about my fears, and he'd tell me that I had nothing to worry about.

So, I don't know...maybe she went through some previous issues and she's reliving those difficulties inside her own head.

[Cooper]

^ This is what I am tending to believe.....

[Platitude Man]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	She does not think twice about bringing something up that is bothering her....

This much is laudable, but is she expecting you to rationalize her problems for her? The symbiosis of her communicating effusively and an INTJ providing rational insight can only stay afloat for so long.

[Cooper]

	Originally Posted by Platitude Man To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This much is laudable, but is she expecting you to rationalize her problems for her? The symbiosis of her communicating effusively and an INTJ providing rational insight can only stay afloat for so long.

No. Not even close. She does not talk about her problems that much, what she doesn't think twice about is telling me how she feels.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No. Not even close. She does not talk about her problems that much, what she doesn't think twice about is telling me how she feels.

If she comes from a history of being emotionally abused in a relationship, it is likely that she is reliving her past at times because scenarios bring up memories of previous problems. It is possible to get past this phase, but it will take work on both of your parts. Your role is to reassure her. Her role is to constantly remind herself that you are not him.

[freeeekyyy]

	Originally Posted by thegutsyone To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We're here to give you guys a few drinks, loosen you up and get you on the dance floor! :D Or you can just watch us cut loose while you stand in the corner. It's all good.

Sounds alright to me...

[Kalmukki]

I'm in a relationship with an ENFP at the moment. And all I can say is, that it's probably the best and the worst thing that has happened to me.

When we first met, everything clicked instantly. I had never experienced anything like that before. Being with my ENFP has taught me so much about myself, mostly of my faults and what needs fixing (thus being the worst since I had to realize my own imperfection), and we ended up going separate ways for a while. But then we got back together, and no, the problems haven't vanished, but we're working on them. I am working on them, since they mostly originate from my behaviour. It's tough at times, but I think overcoming the problems is way worth it, if we get the ship running smoothly.

...and if I learn to remember give her a hug and say the magic words every now and then.
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So what I want to say is, that it has the potential to be everything one would want from a relationship, but due to major differences between the types it could easily go wrong, as well. But talking is essential, as with any relationship, and can help in most problems.

[Cooper]

I don't think I have ever spent so much time looking inside myself....feeling wise....before my ENFP. But at the same time, I'm not sure I have ever been so relaxed. Its very strange.....

[Cooper]

ENFPs are scary little beasts....

[Merryn]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't think I have ever spent so much time looking inside myself....feeling wise....before my ENFP. But at the same time, I'm not sure I have ever been so relaxed. Its very strange.....

We let the INTJs rest securely in what appears to be their superior intelligence while we go about the daily business of total mind control. You're actually stressed out of your mind, but it feels relaxing doesn't it ... doesn't it ....
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[HappyD]

Cooper,
You have not mentioned what it is that your GF thinks is impossible. She may be thinking that you are a great BF but the relationship you have does not lend well to living together for a lifetime or being a united front in regards to raising children. ENFPs are optimistic, and can also be realistic. We want what's best in every situation, but we spend so much time examining relationships that we recognize what may cause major road blocks between people. As someone wrote earlier, she may just be protecting her heart from the hurt she foresees may be her future.

If I had dated my INTJ when I was in my early 20s, I would have been too emotional for him and he would have been too logical for me. I think I would have felt that he was being insensitive and aloof if he did not understand my feelings. At this stage of the game, I understand that my INTJ does not always know what to say to help me feel better. I also understand that just having him be with me when I am upset is enough.

[Cooper]

I guess the best way to put it, is that to be together permanately will require some very serious life changes for both of us. There are a lot of things to consider, mostly on her part. We talk about these things and I know that as much as I want it to, it will not happen overnight.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I guess the best way to put it, is that to be together permanately will require some very serious life changes for both of us. There are a lot of things to consider, mostly on her part. We talk about these things and I know that as much as I want it to, it will not happen overnight.

Tell her the story about how you eat an elephant...









(one bite at a time).

[ness2361]

Gromit is an ENFP and I am an INTJ and we've been together for 23 years and are still in love, have loyalty, affection, sexual attraction--and the friendship we started with--all deeper, changed, more vital and trusting/trustworthy, but there you have it: it can be done:

and I won't lie, it was, at times, crazy-hard, because we loved each other deeply but our temperamental differences caused a lot of problems. Once, I really began to see that I wanted him to be, and he wanted me to be, what temperamentally was impossible, like he'd be less in need of other persons' approval and company, and I would go to parties and be helpful... Then our marriage began to strengthen. And now it's strong. Took a long time, but when we said 'for better and worse' we really meant it.

[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by ness2361 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Once, I really began to see that I wanted him to be, and he wanted me to be, what temperamentally was impossible, like he'd be less in need of other persons' approval and company, and I would go to parties and be helpful... Then our marriage began to strengthen. And now it's strong. Took a long time, but when we said 'for better and worse' we really meant it.

I wonder how much of this is a tempermental issue, and how much of it is youth. Because my guy and I are both in our mid-40s, I think we've somewhat moved past the need of 20-somethings to change each other. I kind of accept our differences more than I would have when I was 25, for instance. I think that the ENFP/INTJ pairing probably gets better with age, on both parts. INTJs develop better interpersonal skills over time, and ENFP gets less flighty and frivolous. I'm a lot more of a homebody at 45 and a lot less social because my job meets my needs for socialization, and often sends me over the edge into shut-down mode.

I think it's a maturity issue. You realize somewhere around 35-40 that attempts to change each other are doomed to failure.

[stock]

Originally Posted by Cooper To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I don't think I 'entice' her back...I ask her what the Hell is going on. I don't really know how to explain it...she will just be a bit different then usual, not quiet her happy ass self. She doesn't really want to break up, she just sees that as the only solution. I was wondering if it is typical ENFP behavor to go from one extreme to the other in 24 hours? Maybe I should put a time frame on it.....it just seems like it comes out of the blue.

oh this.

She has been confronted with an Fi problem of some sort. Something she cant figure out how to resolve...

She goes into panic, self protective mode, and pulls out the logistical little baby Te to solve the issue.

The Te answer is that isolation and be independant are safer and more predictable than being in an unpredictable relationship. She will then seek to make the Te deicision quickly-ie break up-then move on and be sad. Tertiary Te is extremely knee jerk and inelegant in it's solutions, but when under stress, it can totally take charge and issue crazy commands in a protective way.

The baby Te boundaries make her feel safe.

So:
1) Tell her no, breaking up is not the answer. If she tries, say she has hurt you-if you dont explain your hurt, she cant see it. Hurt will trigger an Fi consideration of the issue. If she wants to break up-instead ask for a three day window where you talk on the third day. Often after consideration, the baby Te answer is revealed to be unreasonable.

2) If she insists on breaking up anyways, just call her back in three days dont treat it as aboslute-just treat it as an emo defesnive mechanism and call her back in three days and explain you thought it was a poor idea and that you love her.

3)recognize their is a unconscious push-pull, even testing nature perhaps to this-if she is pushing you away, but you back off a bit, then come back it shows you were not flippant and that she can expose more of herself to you. It would be a mistake to assume this is a game of some sort-she isnt planning this, but I think it does show tenacity.

4) After a bit you should have a pretty nice historical record-so when she starts to make a poor Te based decision-just remind her of "that time when...."

---------- Post added 09-14-2011 at 05:29 AM ----------

crap. I just typed a bunch of stuff and my piece of crap computer clicked back and deleted it.

In brief-

1-the desire to break up is an example of a short lived jungian "complex". Time allows one to recognize the emergence of those defensive complexes and the choice of an alternate path. Everyone has complexes.

2-an istj would understand exactly how to handle this-he would see the behavior as a one off wierd event that was nonsensical in the overall treand of her behavior, thus he would disregard the in the moment request for a breakup and would allow time to pass to resolve the issue. As an intj be careful that you do not use Ni-Se to re-evaluate the entire history of the relationship based upon a few recent events, unless things are very negative. Treat the desire to break up as a minor deviation that isnt refelctive of what she normally feels for you..

[Cooper]

^ this makes a ton of sense, and it is what has happened naturally between us already. No clue how I 'figured it out' but that is the conclusion I came to. I knew she didn't really want to break up, I never thought it was some kind of game, I sensed fear of some kind, something that was....I don't know....but I didn't think she really wanted to break up. Thanks for the post, Stock, it makes a lot of sense.

[ness2361]

<Cat's Meow wrote :

I wonder how much of this is a tempermental issue, and how much of it is youth. Because my guy and I are both in our mid-40s, I think we've somewhat moved past the need of 20-somethings to change each other. I kind of accept our differences more than I would have when I was 25, for instance. I think that the ENFP/INTJ pairing probably gets better with age, on both parts. INTJs develop better interpersonal skills over time, and ENFP gets less flighty and frivolous. I'm a lot more of a homebody at 45 and a lot less social because my job meets my needs for socialization, and often sends me over the edge into shut-down mode.

I think it's a maturity issue. You realize somewhere around 35-40 that attempts to change each other are doomed to failure.

***


ness2361 responded:

My husband, Gromit and I met when he was 28 and I was 29, and he was definitely not flighty or frivolous; he was a good student, senior high Prom King, and member or head of numerous school clubs, plus was excelling at so many sports and had so many medals (worn on his lettermen's jacket) that classmates called him "Christmas" because he jingled when he walked down the hall. I was a bookworm, had one friend--and not a close one, skipped a lot of school, and couldn't play hop scotch with anything resembling grace--not that I wanted to (play hopscotch), but the gracefulness, I'd have settled for that.

We married at 33 and 34 (we have a ten-month-year-age difference), and still we fought each other's way of relating, or what I call 'moving through this world' because we just didn't get, let alone accept, the differences as crucial, internal parts of each other's psyches.

I kept thinking something like 'why does he need other people's approval so much' and I'm sure he was thinking 'why doesn't she care what anyone thinks'. And we'd argue over the right way to behave in gatherings. Gromit is, and always has been, the kind of man who helps set up for any gathering, makes something instead of buying whatever he signed up for, helps set up tables, tear down after.

I, on the other hand, usually forget there is a gathering until the night before, and while I do serve willingly--food, pour water, whatever, I sit down and listen or talk with one person or two, if I can get away with that, or I spend time with kids because they are not judging me to see if I have more or less of something: education, money, good looks, reputation, clout, piety (for religious gatherings).

I've been known to drink a glass of wine, or bring it, to a gathering so I don't babble out of nervousness; I am ready to leave within an hour, and I'll be standing at the door leading to outside, sometimes, while Gromit is walking around the room saying goodbye to nearly everyone he interacted with. (At this altitude, I can't drink a glass of any kind liquor, and I wish I could for the upcoming holiday 'events'.)

Also, if I get out among people and have, say, one or two cheerful exchanges with salesclerks, cashiers, whatever, I'm happy with my 'social life' (if you toss in one friend along the way), but more than that and I feel tired; too much more, I feel exhausted, no matter how much fun I had talking and listening... Gromit, on the other hand, loves to be with people, many more--as long as they're interesting; and he gets energy from gatherings and exchanges, even work ones with others, as long as the bosses and co-workers aren't nutty, micr-managers, uptight, hyper-religious, whatever 'extreme.' I don't care how cool persons are, I can only take one-on-one, and not too many. (Doesn't change with my maturing cycles, never has.)

I don't think these examples--and I have plenty more as we've been together 23-years has much if anything to do with maturity, especially as we did not get together until our late twenties or marry until our early 30s.

I know, too, part of our problem of communicating; with accepting each other's style, has to do with both of us having southern roots so we expected--I know I did--similar styles but did not take 'enough' into consideration Gromit's having come up in the sticks, in the country, going usually to small schools, while I was brought up off downtown Cleveland: urban, mostly Eastern European neighbors, but also in a small Chinatown and with Puerto Ricans, a few Mexicans, some Indians (mostly Cherokee), lots of strangers, dangerous surroundings, huge schools, broken down neighbors to walk that were lined with taverns, dirty bookstores, warehouses...

So while Gromit was taught 'manners', to say 'yes, Ma'am and No, Sir', I was taught to respond to a stranger's question about myself, for instance, with 'It's none of your business.' While he learned when driving to raise 'two fingers' to another driver coming his way, I was learning if you motioned to other drivers you should use only one finger, emphatically. (I had a lot to unlearn, and Gromit, too, as the world as grown, become filled with more strangers, has learned to readjust from childhood.)

Survival, being social, so much other necessary bonding where he came from and where I came from was radically different.

And to this day, Gromit looks to the group he is in for his cues on how to behave while I look inward to my own values and then decide on whether or not to take part in the group.

This, what I have said, is a generalization, of course, and I cannot pack 23-years, let alone his childhood or mine, both, into one post, but perhaps this additional information will help clarify something necessary for the OP and others.

(Our laptop is on its last legs; I'm getting data errors, so please forgive formatting problems; I couldn't get a 'quote reply' to work, so I hope breaking up Cat's Meow and my own response to what she had to say to what I wrote earlier makes sense.


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[User20266]

I am a female ENFP dating a male INTJ. We can absolutely drive eachother crazy sometimes but it's very short lived. It's hard to find a man that wants to discuss anything deeper than fallen snow. I need intellectual stimulation and he gives me that. We can talk about what ifs all day long. He says I understand him like no one ever has, that most don't even have the patience to try to understand an INTJ. He can be a totally insensitive jerk sometimes, but i usually find the underlying issue. Understanding that it didn't have anything to do with me in the first place helps me to not take it personal. When we do have a disagreement, he wants to think about it before discussing it, especially if he's tired. Whereas I don't care if it's 2am, I want to discuss it RIGHT NOW! haha I'm working on letting it wait til morning. He can be manipulative, I feel he doesn't even realize what he's doing sometimes. He can also be very judgmental which he says I see as a personal attack; which i do. I not much on judging therefore I don't like to be judged, especially when it's hipocritical. But all in all we have strong emotional, physical, and intellectual connections. I can't imagine life without him, he's irreplaceable. I think INTJ/ENFP relationships are very doable. No offense to you INTJs, but I think most relationships are going to be a little hard for you reguardless of the MBTI type of your significant other. The "mushy feelings" seem to feel almost unnatural to you although you're very capable of being loving and affectionate. I could go on and on. I love my loving ,coldhearted, enigmatic boyfriend. As he loves his enthusiastic, fly by the seat of my pants, give you the shirt off my back - choke you with it if you mess with me girlfriend.

[Velocitii]

Originally Posted by MEGANBETH26 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

No offense to you INTJs, but I think most relationships are going to be a little hard for you reguardless of the MBTI type of your significant other. The "mushy feelings" seem to feel almost unnatural to you although you're very capable of being loving and affectionate. I could go on and on. I love my loving ,coldhearted, enigmatic boyfriend. As he loves his enthusiastic, fly by the seat of my pants, give you the shirt off my back - choke you with it if you mess with me girlfriend.

I think when I start to 'feel' things, my T goes into overdrive. I start thinking if I should be feeling this way and the why, then I start analyzing everything and I mean EVERYTHING up to the smallest details leading up to the feeling. And then when I realize I can't figure it out. I dismiss it.

The ENFP I almost got involved with was VERY emotional. She would cry at the drop of a hat. I'd get calls at 4 in the morning with her sobbing on the other end. I would spend a good amount of time trying to get her to calm down and look at the logical side of things.. I didn't understand her emotional outlook, and she didn't understand my often cold, indifferent outlook on things. When she told me she liked me, I asked her why. Her response was simply "it's just the way you are." That shit made no sense to me. It would have been interesting if I didn't intentionally sabotage it.

Oh we're in our early 20's.

[User20266]

Originally Posted by Velocitii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think when I start to 'feel' things, my T goes into overdrive. I start thinking if I should be feeling this way and the why, then I start analyzing everything and I mean EVERYTHING up to the smallest details leading up to the feeling. And then when I realize I can't figure it out. I dismiss it. The ENFP I almost got involved with was VERY emotional. She would cry at the drop of a hat. I'd get calls at 4 in the morning with her sobbing on the other end. I would spend a good amount of time trying to get her to calm down and look at the logical side of things.. I didn't understand her emotional outlook, and she didn't understand my often cold, indifferent outlook on things. When she told me she liked me, I asked her why. Her response was simply "it's just the way you are." That shit made no sense to me. It would have been interesting if I didn't intentionally sabotage it. Oh we're in our early 20's.

Do I ever know how you INTJs try to analyze emotions. In my point of view, emotions are not always logical.

I'm def not that emotional. I'm not a crier, but that could have more to do with not being allowed to as a child. I have a cold side to me, "What will crying solve, shut up and do something about it". I also see crying as a weakness because I'm not about to physically show someone I'm having a weak moment if I can help it. I will chose if and when I let you see that I'm having a hard time with something. When my INTJ boyfriend asked me why I liked him I told him that he was passionate, musically inclined, intriguing, intelligent, and much much more. She may have been immature, she may not be an ENFP at all. I truely feel some people don't know themselves well enough, or can't be honest with themselves enough to answer the Myers-Briggs honestly or correctly.

[Cooper]

What is it about an INTJ that attracts ENFPs? The two types are almost opposite of each other....I know what I like about my ENFP (that just sounds very weird), so have somewhat of an understanding fro INTJ to ENFP, but what is it from ENFP to INTJ?

[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by Velocitii To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When she told me she liked me, I asked her why. Her response was simply "it's just the way you are." That shit made no sense to me.

Yes, I could see answering that way. Sometimes you don't know why. Why do you like your favorite color?