[jochexum]

Background(Skip to the bold if you don't want to read all of this): I just graduated in May with a degree in accounting. I've got two internships under my belt, one for a Big 4 firm's advisory practice and the other in the internal audit department of a F500 company. The Big 4 internship came first and they gave me a full-time offer which I accepted (but it is non-binding). The F500 company extended my initial internship and told me I could work there as long as I wanted and surely would have given me a full-time offer had I not told them I'd accepted the other with the Big 4 firm. In other words, I'm more than competent and expect I could be very successful in this line of work.

I deferred my offer at the Big 4 firm to get my MS in Finance and thus the requisite 150 hours to take the CPA exam. I've got a 3.6 GPA and a 700 GMAT (with no preparation at all, mind you) and had been accepted with the max scholarship at one of the better universities to offer a MS in Finance degree. Even with the nice scholarship, I was still going to need to take out a nearly $60,000 loan to fund the 3 semester program. I opted against the debt and turned down grad school.

Now, instead of moving across the country for grad school I'm moving back into my parents' house and am getting a job at Carmax as a used car salesman. I'm actually pretty excited about this sales job because I love cars, and will enjoy the challenge of working on commission and selling to people, something totally out of my comfort zone. I'm also ecstatic to be moving into a job that doesn't involve sitting in front of a computer all day under fluorescent lights with a suit and tie on. But of course without having even started this job, I am 100% sure I do not want to make a career out of selling cars.

I've got a year before I'd start at the big 4 firm to figure out if I really want to take the offer. I'm pretty sure I don't. Even from just my two internships I'm already disillusioned with corporate America and big business. Frankly, I could give a shit less about helping some company up their stock price a few points, or helping management to stuff a few more dollars into their pockets. Sure the job security and paycheck would be nice, but I'm not ready to give up my dream of finding fulfilling work at this point in my life (I'm only 22).

I'm gonna apply to Teach For America as soon as the application is available, August 1. Their acceptance rate is only 10% though so I don't want to put all my eggs in that basket. I love the idea of teaching though, and especially to kids in very disadvantaged areas. I was always very disillusioned with school and academia as a highschooler so I also feel like I'll be able to offer a very different perspective and motivation than the typical TFA teacher who is your typical 4.0, save the world, do-gooder-type.

I'm also studying for the LSAT as a backup plan. I'm well aware of the state of the legal profession right now and am hoping with a lot of preparation I'll ace the LSAT (175+) and get a very nice scholarship to a decent law school. But even assuming all that goes as planned (a very big if), I'm not sure how easy it is going to be to find a fulfilling job as an attorney. I imagine Big Law is relatively similar to the rest of corporate America. Ideally I'd just work for the ACLU or other non-profits.

Basically I feel like a hippie and would like nothing more than being able to fight The Man and the status quo in our nation's politics and policies.

I know it's not uncommon for people my age to have these hippie-ish delusions of grandeur. Can any of y'all relate? Am I being dumb and naive to pass up good-paying, secure employment in search of some newly found idea of job/life-fulfillment? Obviously I'm not expecting anyone to give me a concrete answer on what I should do...I just want some impartial, unbiased thoughts on my decisions, preferably from those who are or previously have experienced similar predicaments.

[kateg]

So you have the world at your feet; you're smarter than you have to be and the world seems to be beating a path to your door...and in this economy! A position of strength. Good.

You opted out of getting into student loan hell. Also good.

You think working a grunt job at Carmax (oh, and it will be grunt) may lead to some kind of enlightenment. Probably not. But you may gain an appreciation of how fine it is to work in an environment with other SMART people, not the idiots you'll have to deal with at Carmax. Personally, that's all I see you getting out of that experience.

Are you absolutely certain that your lucrative accounting job will still be available in one year? They couldn't rescind the offer because the economy goes further into the toilet? Oh, and wait...they deferred the offer because they believe you are attending grad school. When they find out you're not, won't that change everything?

I can understand your resistance to blindly chasing the almighty dollar at the expense of job satisfaction. I just don't agree with your methodology.

I'd start with the accounting job right now. Study the landscape, learn the people. Hey, maybe you can bring them down from within? We need more whistleblowers. Build up your savings. Money gives you freedom....the freedom to follow your ideals. Plus, your experience at the Big4 company will also give you a much better understanding of the enemy.

A bird in the hand, babe, a bird in the hand....

Oooh, and another thought...forensic accounting. Help law enforcement bring down The Man. Build on the path you've already started, don't trash it right out of the gate!

[bpmsu]

You mentioned teach America. You could also go the teaching English abroad route. You get to experience a new culture while deciding your next plan of action.

Can you think of any circumstance where you would go to big4 for a few years and then apply to grad school for political science, international relations, or some other degree along the lines you mentioned?

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by jochexum To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Basically I feel like a hippie and would like nothing more than being able to fight The Man and the status quo in our nation's politics and policies. I know it's not uncommon for people my age to have these hippie-ish delusions of grandeur. Can any of y'all relate? Am I being dumb and naive to pass up good-paying, secure employment in search of some newly found idea of job/life-fulfillment? Obviously I'm not expecting anyone to give me a concrete answer on what I should do...I just want some impartial, unbiased thoughts on my decisions, preferably from those who are or previously have experienced similar predicaments.

You're not being dumb for following your dreams and passions.

You are being dumb for thinking you can fight The Man. In effect, when you were working for the Big 4, you were The Man. That's the problem with fighting The Man: Either you lose, or you become The Man.

If you want to make a difference in the world, go for it. If you want to teach or help people in other countries, do it. Follow your passions. But make sure that the end of your work is something positive and achievable.

And one of the ways you can make a difference is to take the high paying job, and use the money and time to make a difference. While effort is necessary, so is money. And you might best server your passions by making money and doing social work as a "hobby."

[Autumnleaf]

You are an idealistic young man who wants to stick it to the man, who has accepted a position selling used cars. Used car salesmen make a living ripping people off, at least the ones I know do and some of them hate themselves for it. They've told me some stories. Its no wonder drugs and alcohol are common among them.

As for what you should do... follow your intuition.

There is what seems rationally like the right thing to do. The safe thing. That was is often a gilded cage.

Then there is what you feel like doing. The risky thing. This usually seems like a foolish thing but as an INTJ it is often based on your intuitive logic.

Choose to do whatever you want because you will have to live with it.

[plotthickens]

So far, so good. Much props, young man. You've made all the right decisions and now are looking for options on where to go. How about, instead of working for JUST carmax for the next year, try jobhopping? Butcher, baker, arborist, etc? These skills will come in handy later, and they will give you networking opportunities along with options.

Additionally: apply for the Peace Corps. It sounds like you'd be very happy making a modest but good living in the non-profit sector, and your numbers acumen would go a long way. The Peace Corps would be an excellent introduction to many such options for you.

[Zolo]

Personally, I would just take the accounting job. With the way the economy is, any other route will likely leave you poor and destitute.

I also wouldn't recommend Teach for America. Have you read the horror stories about it? If you want to go the teaching route, go to a foreign country like bpmsu said. I know someone who's been in South Korea for a year, and she loves it there. She's even going back for another year.

[Thinktress]

I was SO with you until the end of the second paragraph when I just said, WHAT???!!!

And then I started the third paragraph and it was like a bad movie playing in my head. There was a phrase uttered by a rather famous man, "the poor you will always have with you." You know who else you will always have with you? The uneducated. And for that matter, the abused children - who I took ten years out of my early career to stop and help. Stopped after my own bachelor's. Big mistake.

Go to law school, go corporate, go to graduate school. In this economy, go do anything that is going to bring you a better payday. THEN you can go back and do something for the kids you want to teach, when you're actually more secure. Because this is not a good economy, nor is this a good time to gamble your career. And carmax won't look good on your resume. People will think you had a nervous breakdown or something.

[eagleseven]

1. I don't know any happy used car salesmen.

2. A roommate did Teach For America, and it convinced him to abandon pursing a teaching certificate along with his dreams of teaching non-college students.

3. Call that Big 4 firm and start immediately, before you start hating your life.

4. Use the money from the Big 4 firm to find your purpose in life.

[Asocialkat]

DO NOT TEACH unless you are only in it to make a difference to a child's life (non-academically speaking). Plus, you must possess an infinite amount of patience and not be bothered by repeating yourself 200X a day. Also, you'll be smarter than your co-workers, and this will likely annoy both of you.

I wish I could say I'm exaggerating, but I'm just being blunt.

I'd go teach abroad first and see if you even like it. At least for some of those programs, you don't need a special cert. It sucks to pay $6,000 for one and realize you're never going to use it again.

[Imperator]

1. You're being offered positions that I'm fairly certain at least a few of your peers would happily murder you for. If I had an accounting degree, I'd probably be one of them. You have companies basically fighting over paying you mass quantities of money when quite a few of your group cannot even land jobs as Burger King.
2. You're 22. Keep a record of how many times your passions change in the next 3 years.
3. Building bank now will help make whatever it is you have a passion for easier to achieve.
4. I've heard TFA eats your soul.
5. No seriously, you have options at top companies, at a time when many are struggling, and you're wafting? Make bank. If you find the job is tolerable, make bank for several years, "retire" early, and put all that money towards whatever your heart desires.
6. Unless there's some sort of contract you're not mentioning, you don't have to work at these places for the rest of your days. Take enough money from them to finance something you'd rather do, and leave. As far as I'm concerned, that's a way to stick it to The Man as well.

[thesorehead]

I can definitely relate. Although I did the indecision thing while still at uni, I tried a bunch of things before I finally settled on one long-term goal.

Sales is great, you should give it a go. Give the other things a go too - you may discover an undying passion and God knows the world needs more smart teachers and rational lawyers.


EDIT: having said that, kateg does make a good point re: bird in the hand. The barista at my favourite cafe used to be a civil engineer, earning twice what he made making coffee. Left because (in his opinion) everyone in the industry were arseholes. But he had to get in and work there first to find that out.

[Paji eh Wong]

There are lots of things you can do with an accounting degree and back ground in business. Try taking the Big 4 job, and quit when it gets to be too much. They try switching over to an accounting or management job in an industry you are passionate about. Personally, I am bullish on PV solar.

I recommend against teaching. I did it for years, and teachers were some of the unhappiest, least focused people ever. Education is horrible, and that is systemic.

[Imagineering]

Why are you even worried? You have a lucrative accounting degree. Do whatever the hell you want.

[tracemhunter]

I wish I was in your position when I graduated (may 09). The only jobs on the job board at school were nanny positions and other brain dead jobs. I decided to say screw it and did stuff I always wanted to do (travel). I only recently got a corporate job and well, it is exactly what you think it is. It's boring and everyday is exactly the same.

I'm not going to tell you what to do but I will say this: I don't regret a minute of my post-college bullshit phase. I learned a lot about myself.

[jochexum]

I appreciate everyone's responses. Looks like we've established there are two rather distinct approaches to this situation.

For those of you who had less than stellar endorsements of TFA, would you mind elaborating? I'm trying to approach the application process (and my decision on whether or not to do the program) with an open mind. So far in talking to the recruiters, of course I've only gotten to hear the wonderful success stories. Yes, I've googled and done some reading of other's experiences which has also uncovered some of the horror stories. As with most things though, I'm only finding/hearing stories of those that thought TFA was the greatest two years of their life, or the worst. If anyone could point me in the direction of someone whose experience was more in the middle, that would be extremely helpful to me.

To clarify, I elected to go to grad school and deferred my job offer on my own accord (which my firm agreed to). Otherwise I would be starting full-time this September. I only need 6 more classes to reach the 150 hours necessary for the CPA, all of which I can take online. I'm sure this would placate any concerns my (possibly) future employer might have due to my bailing on grad school.

I just got a call back from a local quasi-governmental non-profit organization to interview for a staff accountant position next week. This seems like a good middle-ground and temporary situation for me while I figure things out before next fall, certainly a better option than selling used cars. Hopefully my interview experience next week isn't horrible so that I'm not scared away.

Long story short though, due to a lot of your responses I'm definitely going to reconsider abandoning my job offer with the Big 4 firm. I've got about three weeks until the deadline for the first round of TFA applications. Hopefully I can get a better understanding of whether or not it would be worthwhile. Since I'm not banking on TFA as my only option perhaps I should just be upfront and frank with my recruiters and express my skepticism over only hearing the positive stories. If nothing else, maybe they'll appreciate the refreshing change of someone daring to question the greatness of TFA. If they act offended and can't be honest with me, I'll know it's not an organization I want know part of. I'm not interested in being brainwashed. At least corporate america doesn't have any qualms with telling you upfront you're gonna be The Man's bitch!
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[Kitesurf]

Hmm.. I envy you being young and able to take risks.
You'll probably being working 50-60 hours in the beginning (I have friends who are CPA's) but should still have enough time to think about other opportunities.

Some ideas: working for a startup for very little money but with stock options, save up money and apply to a name Law School, become an officer in the military, apply for the CIA.. drink the cool aid and become the man. LOL

"I've been rich and I've been poor, rich is better." can't remember who said that.

[plotthickens]

The only thing I would do differently about my early career is not traveling. I would have liked to take those 'free' years, when traveling and going off and visiting people and bumping around was actually possible. Going and doing it. Just fucking off for a summer or a year or however long I had to learn more about the world and become a more well-rounded person. I can't now, and I can never be that 'free' again: backpacking, roughing it; none of those will ever be an option for me in the future.

[momorawr]

I think you should find a company that you can stand behind that has a purpose in the world. That way you get your paycheck, use your education, and the hippie part of you feels loved at the same time.

[Asocialkat]

I have no experience with TFA. My response was based on my own experiences as a new teacher, and I suspect that TFA just adds another layer of bullshit to it. I half regret and half don't regret teaching. I don't regret it because I would have wasted even more time thinking about the idea of teaching as a career and I would not have understood the problems with the current educational system. I do regret it though because I could be making a lot more money if I had procured a job in the "real world" and I could have experience doing something that employers would actually respect. Plus, I wouldn't be stuck in an area of the state that I really hate.

This statement from your post stood out for me: "I love the idea of teaching though, and especially to kids in very disadvantaged areas. I was always very disillusioned with school and academia as a highschooler so I also feel like I'll be able to offer a very different perspective and motivation than the typical TFA teacher who is your typical 4.0, save the world, do-gooder-type." I do not understand why you feel that you are "better" than the typical TFA candidate. You sound exactly like the "typical 4.0, save the world, do gooder type."

If you are going in there with some idealist notion about educating disadvantaged kids because they just need someone who is more intelligent than all the other crappy teachers that you had while in high school. Think again. Teaching is not about proficiency at your subject matter, as much as it pains me to say that. By far, the most effective teachers are ones that can control a classroom. Content knowledge comes in at #10 on the list of traits that makes an effective teacher.

If you want to teach these disadvantaged kids because you think they just need to be around someone who understands them...and YOU understand because you didn't like your own teachers for X and Y reasons...then prepare for a big giant wake-up call. You'll most likely have kids that come in from shitty home situations where school means nothing but a meal and a safe place to sleep. And they will try to sleep in class. Classwork and homework will only be done if they like you as a person. And they most likely won't (unless you're a very socially skilled INTJ). You'll likely be threatened by your students who are gang members. You'll spend more time trying to figure out who your students are and how to manipulate them into doing their work than actually teaching the students the content of your course. Unless you come from generational poverty, you will never really understand your students or their mindset, and they will not understand yours.

Picture ten years ago, a rich brat enters your high school/junior high as your teacher to educate your disillusioned teenaged younger self. This person keeps harping on trust funds and why tax shelters are important. Nothing that came out of such a person would have any relevance to your situation. It is the same with you and these disadvantaged kids you want to "help." Little of what you teach with them will really help them survive their environment. You'll spend most of your time trying to sell the idea that what you are trying to teach them IS important because it will give them choices when they are older. You both live in a very different world. I haven't even gotten into the middle class students that you will be teaching. They are a different ballgame. But at least you both understand where the other is coming from.

In any case, unless you really want to play the role of counselor and mentor for 130-200 students, and unless you are extroverted, people savvy, and actually like people-challenges...then spare yourself a headache and go and do something else. The country is rife with non-profits that would love to use your skills. Go do that if you really want to make a difference.

I don't say this as some bitter crank who couldn't handle teaching. I say this as a 31 year old, extremely successful first year teacher. I received high marks in my teacher candidate program, the lady who observed me was an expert at classroom management and frequently pointed me out and used me as a what-to-do example in her trainings, I received the highest marks in my teacher evaluations with my school (while the table of veteran teachers who brought it up had never managed it), and my students were more likely to pass the state achievement test AND were 50% more likely to receive honors than the two other veteran teachers in my department (both of whom had been teaching for at least ten years). I was told that I was not just an excellent first year teacher, but an excellent teacher PERIOD. Therefore, I know a little something about what I'm talking about.

I'm in no way saying that you won't be an excellent teacher...I just don't think you'll be happy one because you're going into it...well, pretty much with the same mindset that I had. I'll be teaching one more year (so I can save up some money and such), and then I'm out of the teaching profession for good. I suspect that it's really NOT what you think it is, and I don't want to see you blow some very good opportunities that you most likely WILL regret passing on later. Obviously, it is your decision, but you seem as though you want blunt, honest information rather than having people blow smoke up your ass.

There will always be a teacher shortage. Do it later. Several people in my teacher cert program were retired, which just goes to show that there will always be a time to teach. It just doesn't have to be right now.

[KorbenDallas]

IMHO you should make as much money as possible while you're still a hot commodity to The Man. Absolutely you'll find most people are just corporate drones. But there's a good possibility you'll find other people that are just playing the game, yet remain independent inside. I've typically found these souls in mid/upper management.

Then once you've milked The Man and saved your money, branch out and do something else. Wouldn't that feel good to take advantage of him? At least later you can blame it on a career change, IMO right now it's too early. IMO it's a bit too idealistic right now. (Hey you asked.)

Our lives are longer than people assume, most people change careers at least once in their lives. Being an INTJ you'll probably change more than that. I've met inspirational people after I left my 1st career behind, people that redefined who they were several times and were successful in each.

Good luck, and btw great score on the GMAT
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