[JulietCapulet]

Honestly it makes sense anyone would have a hard time trusting right now...things are just out of control.

[VENUS 2020]

I trust generally, but perhaps not in the way implied here. Its more an expectation that I may have of a person or event. eg. I trust him to completely screw up that assignment, I trust that the fireworks will end before midnight, I trust you to keep all my valuables without indulging yourself. etc.

Its basically a modified expectation that’s been developed based on my experience, research or general information.

To trust otherwise leaves one too vulnerable to another person's fallibilities

[killyridols]

	Originally Posted by chaostheory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Would you trust a convicted child rapist around young children? I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

It seems ridiculous to put children near a convicted child rapist. That has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with endangering children.

---------- Post added 06-19-2011 at 04:17 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by jonsi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you think it's possible to fully trust yourself without trusting someone else? Some people really will hurt you if given the opportunity- being aware of the danger someone else might hold seems like a cognitive perception of someone's potential behavior.

I think this is where the confusion is setting in.

Trust is for one's self.
If you trust yourself, you will trust yourself to recognize danger for what it is and not over-amplify in the other direction to paranoia. It is a healthy trust not acceptance of everyone.

For instance, if I pick up a rattlesnake, it is going to bite me. That's just dumb to do. It is in that rattlesnake's nature to bite me and I know that. If I trust myself, I know to recognize that feeling in my gut that tells me "get the hell away".

[jonsi]

so are you saying that if you trust yourself you will more or less trust that the world is a good place or people as a whole?

[killyridols]

	Originally Posted by jonsi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	so are you saying that if you trust yourself you will more or less trust that the world is a good place or people as a whole?

yes
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


(and you'll still know when to jump out of the way of the occasional flying meteor)

[chaostheory]

	Originally Posted by killyridols To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It seems ridiculous to put children near a convicted child rapist. That has nothing to do with trust and everything to do with endangering children.

Translation: You wouldn't trust that individual near those children.

On what criteria for choosing someone, if not trust, would you base your decision on?

[killyridols]

	Originally Posted by chaostheory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Translation: You wouldn't trust that individual near those children. On what criteria for choosing someone, if not trust, would you base your decision on?

Facts. He's a child rapist.

[chaostheory]

	Originally Posted by killyridols To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Facts. He's a child rapist.

What about a complete stranger?

[killyridols]

	Originally Posted by chaostheory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What about a complete stranger?

Then you wouldn't know he is a child rapist. Strangers who are child rapists don't go around announcing themselves as such.

---------- Post added 06-19-2011 at 04:31 PM ----------

It's like my earlier example of a snake. Would you trust your pet mouse that you love with a snake at the pet store? No. Because I trust that snake to eat a mouse if one is nearby. The universe works in a certain way and there is no denying that.

[chaostheory]

	Originally Posted by killyridols To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Then you wouldn't know he is a child rapist. Strangers who are child rapists don't go around announcing themselves as such.

Well yeah, true, but that's beside the point. We use facts as a foundation for trust.

[mastermind23]

	I don't really consider it an issue so much as a reality.

This, most definitely. Realistically speaking, and this is maybe why INTJs might have a more difficult time trusting - looking at it from an objective point of view, few can be trusted. My stand is that people, whether conciously or not, are out for THEIR best interest, your interests come second. And if it is in their best interest to screw you over, in any way, they will. And I am not even saying that most will do it counciously (although many will, and will have no qualms about it, since it is you vs. me world). You can only really trust yourself since only to you does your own best interest come first. It's as simple as that.

---------- Post added 06-21-2011 at 12:52 AM ----------

	What's going to blow all of your minds when you finally realize it is that it isn't that you can't trust other people. It's that you don't trust yourself. Trust is a fully internal state and the external world has nothing to do with it. What you are doing is projecting the inability to trust on to the outside world.

Interesting. Can you elaborate on this please?

[AnaK]

It's best to make sure someone knows to keep something in confidence. If you tell me all about your recent sexcapades 20 minutes after meeting me, I'm going to assume you're open about that subject and I may not realize that you told me, a virtual stranger, in confidence.

[obiwan177]

This comes from my own experience, although it does line up with the MBTI profile quite nicely.

For me to trust someone, they need to earn that trust.

They earn that trust by proving themselves, in whatever fashion.

I have ridiculously high standards for everything.

As such, people rarely make it above that proverbial bar that I have set.

[killyridols]

	Originally Posted by mastermind23 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Interesting. Can you elaborate on this please?

Is trust a "thing"? An object that can be handed to someone like a package? If it is not an external object, how can you give it to someone?

Look inward. Deconstruct what trust means to you. Is it an emotive state? Is it the boundaries you have? How have you betrayed trust before? Why did you betray trust before?

[ManWithNoName]

	Originally Posted by killyridols To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is trust a "thing"? An object that can be handed to someone like a package? If it is not an external object, how can you give it to someone? Look inward. Deconstruct what trust means to you. Is it an emotive state? Is it the boundaries you have? How have you betrayed trust before? Why did you betray trust before?

I think what killyridols is getting at is that there is a difference between being distrustful and being paranoid. A difference that us INTJ's sometimes forget or cross the lines at times (especially when we become emotional).

Paranoia is thinking that everything is harmful and that everyone has bad intentions. Paranoia is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy as in a way it filters out any good action a person may take and in general is just the persons uncertainty about themselves projected outwards. With a paranoid person it is never their fault, people fail them, they never fail other people. Like if they attempt to communicate to somebody and the person doesn't understand them instead of thinking hey, the person just didn't understand me maybe I should find a better way to communicate with them, they view it as a personal attack on their character. It's not that the person didn't understand them it's the person willfully and cruelly rejected them. This allows the paranoid person to preserve their ego and play 'poor me I'm so misunderstood'. In this sense this kind of self loathing and self pity is simply another type of egotism and is kind of the introverts version of constantly boasting about how great you are.

Being distrustful is instead just being reserved and simply waiting until a persons character can be assessed a bit before taking action. Fundamentally though, every time you interact with a person it is a risk. Most people are strong enough in their judgment of themselves that whatever judgment the other person may place upon them will have no effect. INTJ's I find who are naturally distrustful may seem cautious but altogether I think were more neutral than anything else. Our opinion on someone is blank until we have gathered sufficient evidence.

[deckard]

I meant, as long as you feel comfortable enough with your ability to discern who can be trusted weighed against your ability to protect yourself and those you care about, what else is there? I've had those who I put complete faith in and it still backfired but I don't think that will make me any less trusting once the trauma has passed.

[Zhuinden]

Haha, well... essentially distrust is for people to "earn your trust" aka privilege to know your more internal thoughts. A means of protection against being exploited, albeit still an implicit negative attitude towards people you don't know well, which can be quite a barrier.

I don't distrust anyone, I just don't tell them anything. ^^

[therrirl]

Find one person in your life that you can trust completely (besides yourself) and let that person accept you completely as you him/her. Without that one person, never true happiness will find you.

[Imagineering]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't trust secretive people. I immediately think, what horrible truth are they hiding? One of my favorite sayings is: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." If I catch someone in a lie, it is unlikely I will ever trust them. A lie isn't just something you do, a liar is something you are.

I can't stand people who gossip or talk about anything I say to them after the fact.

---------- Post added 06-21-2011 at 12:09 PM ----------

I also don't think it's a lie if you choose to withold your truth from someone else because frankly it's none of their damn business.

---------- Post added 06-21-2011 at 12:16 PM ----------

Not your post though as far as gossip or it being after the fact. I think I was unclear. I mean when talking to someone and they tell someone else my business, something said to a friend in private. i think betraying confidence is more of a "lie" than someone withholding info from a friend.

[Raskolnikov]

I consider myself to be 100% trustworthy and honourable with people who are close to me.

I consider myself to be one of a kind in this respect, until proven otherwise through time and trial.

However, I realize that this isn't likely nor a rational consideration, as I'm merely one of 6.7 billion humans all made of the same space-junk; I'm hardly unique. I do hope to some day befriend an equal. The allure of having one single person I could trust with my deepest, darkest thoughts and feelings, a confidant in its truest form, is one of the strongest there is in life, in my experience. I fear this allure will someday be my downfall; I've had some close calls already, but my lingering paranoia in even my most vulnerable moments has been a saving grace.

[mastermind23]

	Find one person in your life that you can trust completely (besides yourself) and let that person accept you completely as you him/her. Without that one person, never true happiness will find you.

It would probably be quite nice to have someone like that, but out of curiosity - why do you say that without such a person true happiness will never find you? What exactly about such a person and such a bond would be so important, and why, in your opinion?

	Is trust a "thing"? An object that can be handed to someone like a package? If it is not an external object, how can you give it to someone? Look inward. Deconstruct what trust means to you. Is it an emotive state? Is it the boundaries you have? How have you betrayed trust before? Why did you betray trust before?

Thank you for your response.

[AnaK]

Originally Posted by Imagineering To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I can't stand people who gossip or talk about anything I say to them after the fact. ---------- Post added 06-21-2011 at 12:09 PM ---------- I also don't think it's a lie if you choose to withold your truth from someone else because frankly it's none of their damn business. ---------- Post added 06-21-2011 at 12:16 PM ---------- Not your post though as far as gossip or it being after the fact. I think I was unclear. I mean when talking to someone and they tell someone else my business, something said to a friend in private. i think betraying confidence is more of a "lie" than someone withholding info from a friend.

Withholding the truth is not the same as lying. Lying is making a statement that is not true.

As far as gossip, most people talk. If you want something held in confidence it's best to make it clear you don't want information passed on, because it's not always obvious.

As far as secretive people, live with a drug addict for a year or two. You'll discover people hide things for a reason.

[TheHmmmm]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't trust secretive people. I immediately think, what horrible truth are they hiding? One of my favorite sayings is: "Sunlight is the best disinfectant." If I catch someone in a lie, it is unlikely I will ever trust them. A lie isn't just something you do, a liar is something you are.

Guess everyone's a liar then because everybody lies at some point. Your assertion is way too cut and dry.

To the OP, I don't trust anybody even the good-intentioned ones because everybody fucks up at some point. And those fuck-ups can negatively affect me, so I devote a ton of energy to preventing these fuckups by forcing myself to do things most people would depend on someone else to do.

Now that being said, I don't necessarily trust myself on my first hunches either, because I can be rather absent-minded at times. Thus, when I have a responsibility I constantly check myself to make sure I account for everything.

[Raskolnikov]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As far as secretive people, live with a drug addict for a year or two. You'll discover people hide things for a reason.

I have no reason. I just do. Perhaps because it protects me from scrutiny and unwanted intervention in my life.

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I catch someone in a lie, it is unlikely I will ever trust them. A lie isn't just something you do, a liar is something you are.

And only a liar would claim to never tell a lie. Not all lies are born equal; the seriousness and context of the lie is what matters. Sometimes they're even necessary.

[Imagineering]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Withholding the truth is not the same as lying. Lying is making a statement that is not true.

I don't think it's this black and white. Sometimes a lie is necessary to protect self interest.

	As far as gossip, most people talk. If you want something held in confidence it's best to make it clear you don't want information passed on, because it's not always obvious.

Yes, indeed, hence my secretiveness now.

	As far as secretive people, live with a drug addict for a year or two. You'll discover people hide things for a reason.

I have lived with someone with this kind of problem before. But I didn't sit around and judge them against my better notions. That's not true friendship.