[Mateo1041]

A lot of people here seem pretty self-confident. While I do great working solo on projects, my self-confidence tanks in group settings, in the office, and in social situations. I tend to over-analyze social situations and completely misread reality. While I understand where points of view come from, it's hard for me to distinguish which is correct when speaking with someone. What if the other person is right and I'm wrong or misinformed?

For some reason I generally assume others to be right even though I'm probably already smarter than them. I work hard to prove myself and impress, almost too hard to the point of wearing myself out and going on the defensive.

I worked at a technology company in Milwaukee a few years ago and the owner of the company was a total elitist ass. I unfortunately found it hard to really stand up for myself, one being he was the boss and two being he was a way better speaker than I. A co-worker of mine likened him to a snake oil salesman. It's one of the reasons I left.

What gives? Any ideas to help overcome this? I think it's preventing me from accomplishing great things. If I were to overcome it, I'd hate to be the one turning into an elitist ass.

Thanks.

[DeaconSyre]

Ask people why they think what they think. Say you're confused because you thought (whatever) would be better because of X, Y and Z. Most people are full of crap. Just be polite and check to make sure.

If you find that they had the better idea then adopt it and promote it. Simple as that. If you always choose the right answer you're always right.

[jonathanb]

Make up a strategy during conversation (or even before that). Let them talk while you make a plan. The more someone talks, the more he exposes his weak points. Wait for the right moment to say the intelligent thing that'll make an impact. It's like fighting. Some people throw punches all over non-stop, so they're intimidating. But someone who's constantly throwing strikes can't usually deliver a truly killing blow. You wait till he's weak and tired, and strike then. Also, better take these conversations in front of other people. If it's kept between you, he can pretend (even to himself) it didn't happen. If there are witnesses, he cannot. Try doing this in an environment he feels uncomfortable in. If he's clean and neat, start a conversation in a restroom. If he likes being on time, start talking to him next to a clock. Get it started in your office/room/house/party rather than his. Use the environment. Once he's partially shattered, keep striking. Everyone has a breaking point. Sooner or later, if you keep delivering good tactical strikes, the person you have to deal with is going to loose some confidence, even if he's not going to show it. Then you can get more out of him, your way. Key is to intimidate without being hostile. Make him think you are "better" somehow, in a way he cannot understand, rather than seeming to attack he directly. Careful as this can bring about some negative counter plotting.

You can also try making fake compromises during conversations, only to end up demanding more eventually on your side of the bargain. Saying "no" to your boss/superior/better talker is going force against force, and he already has the advantage to start with. Always say: "Yes... But...".

[DeepThought]

How old are you? Age and experience increase confidence, particularly with regard to one's chosen profession. It may only be that you will develop confidence with experience.

[TheStranger]

Think of the people more socially maladaptive than you...seriously.

[Tactical Panda]

Become strong; find love; develop courage; wisen up and mature.

It tends to work.

[bladeszcat]

Read his pattern. Everybody slips into areas of comfort. Bring the evidence of all previous encounters to demonstrate how strong this pattern is, and shatter his argument on the basis of how flawed he is by virtue of being a victim of this pattern.

Preferable to remain detached through process of gaining evidence, and during interaction itself, lest it come across as vitriolic ad hominem attack.

Remain smug in the secret knowledge of what you are actually doing to preserve detachment. Stealthily stick up posters of Jason Bourne...

People aren't worth the attention.

[Japonica]

I have the exact same thing. When I have to show myself to a group of people, I come off as a bumbling moron, but when I work independently, I think the stuff I produce isn't half bad.

[Beric]

In a classroom or group project setting, I'm extremely confident. Elsewhere? Not so much. However, my knowledge of both being an INTJ and because of various school, career, and social accomplishments in the past year has caused my confidence in myself to skyrocket. I'm also far more confident online than in person.

[Rhyseh]

The older I get the more confident I grow in my abilities (I'm only 24 so take this with a grain of salt).

I used to be very timid in group situations, mainly because I was too hung up on what other people might think or what their motives were.... Through experience I now realise that most people are total fuckups and couldn't organise a shag in a brothel, combined with the realisation that my IQ puts me in the top 2% of the world's population, I often take the reins in group activities. The only exceptions are if there is either a competent Extraverted type who makes the right choices (god help the incompetent extravert who is determined to talk over me with their horribly flawed solution..... God help me if my group agrees with them) or if there is someone with an exceptional amount of experience in a certain area.

Once you stop caring about the environment and start focusing on the task the pieces fall into place.

[ntrneo]

I'm not sure that your problems come from lack of self-confidence. But in case it was true, and in case you'd like to work on it...

According to Paul Kiersey's "Please understand me II" every NT:

to earn self-esteem - must be ingenious
to earn self-respect - must be autonomus
to earn self-confidence- must be resolute, maintain his willpower

A bit more about the last point:

"Self-Confidence in Resolution

Rationals are self-confident in so far as they sense in themselves a
strength of will or an unwavering resolution. NTs believe they can overcome
any obstacle, dominate any field, conquer any enemy-even themselves-
with the power of their resolve. In Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre,
Rochester must will himself to live with the secret of Thornfield Hall:

He ground his teeth and was silent: he arrested his step and struck his
boot against the hard ground. Some hated thought seemed to have him in
its grip, and ... to hold a quivering conflict...under his ebony brow. Wild
was the wrestle which should be paramount; but another feeling rose and
triumphed: something hard ... self-willed and resolute: it settled his passion
and petrified his countenance; he went on:- 'During the moment I was
silent, Miss Eyre, I was arranging a point with my destiny.'

Once Rationals resolve to do something they have in a sense made a
contract with themselves, a contract they dare not go back on. Indeed, -J
their worst fear is that their determination might weaken, their will power
might falter, and that they will fail in their resolve. Why is this? Why are
NTs so fearful of their will power weakening? It is because they can never
take will power for granted, however strong it has proved itself in the past.
They know, perhaps better than others, that they are not in charge of their
will, but that their will is in charge of them. Einstein was fond of quoting
Schopenhauer's words: "Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will
what he wills." Rationals know, for instance, that they cannot will themselves
to control involuntary functions, such as speech, sexual desire, digestion,
warding off infection, and so on. Mter all, the involuntary is by definition
not subject to the will, but must occur spontaneously.
And yet, even though they know some things must happen of themselves,
Rationals can dread this loss of control. This is why so many NTs turn out
to develop unreasonable fears, especially of germs and other forms of
filth, something they have no control over. The Rationals Mark Twain,
Nikola Tesla, Howard Hughes, and Buckminster Fuller each developed
disease phobias, some of them incapacitating, as in the case of Hu~hes.
And speech is a special problem for the Rationals, who are the most lIkely
of all the types to develop gestural tics when they try to take control of
their speech. Though it tends to impair their performance, strength of
resolve is of such extreme importance to Rationals that, under stress, they
have no choice but to invoke their will and try harder."

Hope it helps
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[Mateo1041]

Thanks, everyone. I've been in the professional workforce for about 12 years. I'll read through some of these suggestions tonight.

[Phasor]

Originally Posted by Mateo1041 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

A lot of people here seem pretty self-confident. While I do great working solo on projects, my self-confidence tanks in group settings, in the office, and in social situations. I tend to over-analyze social situations and completely misread reality. While I understand where points of view come from, it's hard for me to distinguish which is correct when speaking with someone. What if the other person is right and I'm wrong or misinformed? For some reason I generally assume others to be right even though I'm probably already smarter than them. I work hard to prove myself and impress, almost too hard to the point of wearing myself out and going on the defensive. I worked at a technology company in Milwaukee a few years ago and the owner of the company was a total elitist ass. I unfortunately found it hard to really stand up for myself, one being he was the boss and two being he was a way better speaker than I. A co-worker of mine likened him to a snake oil salesman. It's one of the reasons I left. What gives? Any ideas to help overcome this? I think it's preventing me from accomplishing great things. If I were to overcome it, I'd hate to be the one turning into an elitist ass. Thanks.

Analysis paralysis? I know the type. The guy that is smooth talking and is louder than everyone but no more informed than anyone, yet everyone listens to him. I remember readin about a study where people that presented themselves that way were actually percieved by others to be smarter or more competent that they actually were. Anyway, in technical issues, it seems like it would be fairly cut-and-dry, and by-the-numbers (I worked as an electrician for 4 years but i am sill in school for EE, so correct me if im wrong) in determining who is right. Anyway, maybe practice an approach for people like that and remain your respectable self to others. If you sound like the prick that is loudest and you have supporting data, you win. Fuck that alpa-dick head.

[therrirl]

Bear in mind self confidence comes natural to INTJ's that don't inhibit it. Self esteem is important first step. Find that and the confidence will flow, padawan. LOL

Oh wait, I mean Cadet.