[Ray9]

As I finish up Thomas Sowell's book, "Intellectuals and Society", I am amazed at the similarities between the Obama administration and the people who brought about the great depression and caused World War Two. Inept individuals, unaware of their ineptitude have throughout history caused more misery than any dictator or military aggressor because they are responsible for enabling the evil that destroys peace. Instead of realizing how incompetent they are and stepping aside to preserve peace, psuedo intellectuals like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton foist their incredible ignorance on the world stage and endanger the entire human race. Like the "enlightened" and "self-annointed" pretenders of the past who allowed Hitler to re-arm and attack and annex his neighbors, the Obama administration reduces world events to abstract concepts of fairness and fair play ignoring the realities of an ignorant, brutally backward, midieval Arab ideology that wants a Palestinian state for the sole purpose of destroying Israel.

It's absolutely astounding that people can't see the fatal disability and dangerousness of this administration and the threat they pose to the security of the United States, Israel and the entire free world. The back-stabbing stupidity of issuing ridiculous and (mortally perilous) ultimatums to Israel while simultaneously coddling violent Muslims is breathtaking. One can only hope the American people wake up and vote this fool and his leftist minions out of offce for good.


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[Zsych]

Israel is a pain in the butt, and restoring good will with the Muslim world isn't a bad idea.

In any case, what better options than Obama do you see on the horizon? Decently intelligent is better than outright dumb.

--

Telling the Israelis to back off and come to an agreement that might actually reduce trouble. And its not like he doesn't disapprove of stuff like the Palestinians allying with Hamas.

Peace tends to require compromise.

Unfortunately, with the idiocies of the Palestinians and a nut job like Netanyahu as pm of Israel, there likely won't be any results unless someone wants to use a lot of force.

[Ray9]

Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Israel is a pain in the butt, and restoring good will with the Muslim world isn't a bad idea. In any case, what better options than Obama do you see on the horizon? Decently intelligent is better than outright dumb. -- Telling the Israelis to back off and come to an agreement that might actually reduce trouble. And its not like he doesn't disapprove of stuff like the Palestinians allying with Hamas. Peace tends to require compromise. Unfortunately, with the idiocies of the Palestinians and a nut job like Netanyahu as pm of Israel, there likely won't be any results unless someone wants to use a lot of force.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor, best known as the author of the poem First they came....

[IslandHead]

Alienating Israel is good. We don't want to go to war for them. No oil. Only potato pancakes and dreidels...

The only real security threat here, is the human rights violations that Israel is apart of and that we turn a blind eye towards.


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Israel is also been known to assassinate people they don't like

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And they even miss their targets

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Israel is out of control. And has been for a while. What they're doing to the Palestinians is ridiculous

[INTelliJent]

The problem is doing shit "half assed", and that is what this is. Pick a side. Asking Israel to pull off the Golan Heights is asking them to commit tactical suicide. We are backing Israel and yet at the same time pretending to be an impartial arbiter. This is dumb. Pick a fucking side.

Louis L'Amour had a saying he liked to insert into his books that said "Straddling a fence gives a man a sore crotch". America is bruised and bleeding in the crotch at this point on many issues, this being the latest.

[littledarkmoon]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor, best known as the author of the poem First they came....

"They came for the paranoid schizophrenics, and lights out at 9:30"
-anonymous

[LaoTzu]

I fail to see any sense in maintaining the status quo.

For someone who railed against NPR funding (of what amounted to less than $5M)... where do you see logic in maintaining $30B in funding for Israeli arms?

The idea that if one relaxes on the Palestinians; they will rearm and become a great threat to Israel is a catch-22. Perhaps they will... Perhaps they wont.

Only one thing is certain: That by not relaxing on them, the conflict is guaranteed to continue. Indefinitely. Trillions possibly will be spent; and ultimately we will return to this point some time in the future, asking the exact same question of 'what should be done'.

There's nothing unfair about what Obama's said. And likely, nothing will come of this anyway. It's just politicking.

[blueback]

I get the connection to sacrificing the Jews, but where is the connection to destroying us in the process?

[Dodeca]

	Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I get the connection to sacrificing the Jews, but where is the connection to destroying us in the process?

Not to mention that during the Great Depression people actually died before the war and after it stated. Boo Hoo you lost your job but are you starving to death like they did in the 30s. Always AWAYS the comparisons of past mistakes overshadow the needs of the present realities.

@Ray9

If WW2 brought us the great generation are todays 20 somethings the Greatest generation after WW3. I only ask to find relevance is your spiel about how we are all doomed once and for all, this time, for sure.

Is not Israel supposed to follow intentional law along with everyone else. I know countries cheat but its still law, (1967 treaty) right or wrong?

[Moniker9]

	Originally Posted by blueback To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I get the connection to sacrificing the Jews, but where is the connection to destroying us in the process?

My thoughts exactly. I fail to understand why Israel is so important to the U.S., except as a sort of beachhead into the oi-rich middle east. The whole creation of a Jewish state was a stupid overreaction made with good intentions. You turn an entire population into refugees and are surprised when they fight back?

---------- Post added 05-19-2011 at 07:38 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Dodeca To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Is not Israel supposed to follow intentional law along with everyone else. I know countries cheat but its still law, (1967 treaty) right or wrong?

Israel has been in a state of total war since it's creation, this has shaped them into a rabid animal that lashes out violently at any perceived threat. Understandable considering their history, we shouldn't be surprised that they give little thought to law. The U.S. however, violates international law out of simple arrogance, less understandable I think.

[Vermillion]

Fuck Israel. They're just a parasite on our ass that needs to be removed.
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[Moniker9]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Like the "enlightened" and "self-annointed" pretenders of the past who allowed Hitler to re-arm and attack and annex his neighbors, the Obama administration reduces world events to abstract concepts of fairness and fair play ignoring the realities of an ignorant, brutally backward, medieval Arab ideology that wants a Palestinian state for the sole purpose of destroying Israel.

This I can half agree with. I wish Obama would find some fucking balls and bust some heads, Bush may have been a twit but at least he knew how to get shit done. I disgree however that the Muslim or Arab world should be the recipient of that head-busting. We go to into their land, build military bases and bomb them with robots and wonder why they hate us so much. You want peace with the Muslims? Then leave them the fuck alone!

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's absolutely astounding that people can't see the fatal disability and dangerousness of this administration and the threat they pose to the security of the United States, Israel and the entire free world. The back-stabbing stupidity of issuing ridiculous and (mortally perilous) ultimatums to Israel while simultaneously coddling violent Muslims is breathtaking. One can only hope the American people wake up and vote this fool and his leftist minions out of offce for good.

Be more specific. When I piss myself from terror I like to know what it is I'm so terrified about. What exactly is the 'fatal disability' here and what threat does it pose to the world?

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fuck Israel. They're just a parasite on our ass that needs to be removed. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I agree wit the fuck Israel part, but I don't want them removed, they're already there. Plus they're white so I'm obligated to be sad if they die (joking).

[Zsych]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." -- by Martin Niemöller, prominent German anti-Nazi theologian and Lutheran pastor, best known as the author of the poem First they came....

As interesting as that view is, its completely over the top, and has no relation to the Israel/Arab issue. The Israeli create plenty of trouble by themselves and supporting them doesn't really benefit the US much. Besides, if you care about those people and they keep acting like brats, we may as well force both of them to come to their senses. Somebody has to think of the long run.

[Autumnleaf]

I never thought I'd see INTJs defend Israel. I can understand Christians mindlessly doing it because, ya know the Jew are God's chosen people. But INTJs? Come on. Putting a bunch of Jews on stolen Muslim land and giving those Jews lots of guns was a stupid idea from the start. Its especially stupid now that we sort of need the oil the Muslims own and China wants that oil too.

[tracemhunter]

	Originally Posted by Vermillion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Fuck Israel. They're just a parasite on our ass that needs to be removed. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

YES YES YES.
FUCK ISRAEL.

It's like they are the black sheep brother that sobs to borrow money from you for some bullshit reason and spends it all on coke. They are definitely not willing to go to rehab so the best thing to do is let them put on their big boy pants and die already.

[Nemesis]

Israel is a fact of life. The US supported Israel for long enough to establish itself on the world stage. There's no need to have it suckling on the American teat for any longer, especially since meddling around in Israel's affairs is not only destroying the US's reputation on the world stage (this does actually matter), but leading to shit like 9/11.

It's time for Israel to face up to the bed it's made for itself.

[sms444]

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I never thought I'd see INTJs defend Israel. I can understand Christians mindlessly doing it because, ya know the Jew are God's chosen people. But INTJs? Come on. Putting a bunch of Jews on stolen Muslim land and giving those Jews lots of guns was a stupid idea from the start. Its especially stupid now that we sort of need the oil the Muslims own and China wants that oil too.

Even if creating Israel in its current location was a huge mistake, the fact that it is there now (and has been for over 60 years) is a problem that must be faced, don't you think?

[Urshulgi]

To support Israel is to go against the best interests of the U.S.

Our relationship with Israel is massively beneficial to them, but massively detrimental to the U.S.

If it weren't for the power of lobbyist groups and media campaigns, the U.S. would have abandoned Israel long ago.

[Anhedonic Lake]

The religious right wing want Israel to be protected from Muslims so that Armageddon can come to fruition and they can be raptured up to heaven. I see this as good progress for the world in general. Israel is strong enough to stand on it's own two feet.

[thod]

Stopping handing over gifts of weapons and money is not "sacrificing the Jews" because this is not a positive action against them. The vast majority of states do not receive such gifts yet they do not try to cast this as US aggression. It is the normal way states interact.

There seems to be an entitlement complex in the mind of the Israelis. They expect the US to keep writing them blank welfare checks from now to infinity. If they cannot support themselves after all this time, perhaps they are simply not viable as a state. Israel is like the grown up kid that keeps demanding from its parent long after it should be earning it's own keep. It is time for Israel to grow up.

What is the US doing anyhow? A Jewish state is, by definition, a theocracy and opposes every principle the US stands for. If someone is born of Israeli soil they should be citizens regardless of religion. Why does the US think supporting the Jews is a duty when so few of its own population is Jewish? Perhaps it is time for US-Israel relations to normalize. Become just like any other two nations relationship. This would force the Israelis to negotiate with the Palestinians. Compromise means give and take yet Israel never gives an inch because the US money keep flowing.

[Ray9]

What is being said is eerily reminiscent of what was said in France while Hiter was sweeping accross borders in Austria and Czechsoslavakia. Appeasing mortal enemies to enhance one's reputation on the world stage is never a good idea. Does anyone seriously believe that Muslims will love us if we throw Israel under the bus? They hate us eternally for what we are not for what we do.

[LaoTzu]

No it isn't.

Point: Lao Tzu.


One day; you will have to let the kiddies lie in the bed they have made. Forever shielding them from the true consequences of their actions does more harm to them than your conscience will ever do to you.

[thod]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is being said is eerily reminiscent of what was said in France while Hiter was sweeping accross borders in Austria and Czechsoslavakia.

I reckon they said: "Oh merde, the Germans are coming!"

	Appeasing mortal enemies to enhance one's reputation on the world stage is never a good idea.

It can be, depends on what value and costs you associate with each.

	Does anyone seriously believe that Muslims will love us if we throw Israel under the bus?

That's silly. You couldn't lift Israel with a crane let alone throw it. Besides where would you get such a large bus.

	They hate us eternally for what we are not for what we do.

What things do you do that they do not hate you for? Do you do some things they should hate you for? I reckon they didn't much give a darn about you, until you showed up driving a large bus.

[Dodeca]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What is being said is eerily reminiscent of what was said in France while Hiter was sweeping accross borders in Austria and Czechsoslavakia. Appeasing mortal enemies to enhance one's reputation on the world stage is never a good idea. Does anyone seriously believe that Muslims will love us if we throw Israel under the bus? They hate us eternally for what we are not for what we do.

Yes, All Muslims Hate Israel*

*Sarcasm

Do you expect any real replays when you refuse to give one yourself.

All I hear is repeated nonsense about Hitler and Nazis.

Don't you know that they were organized, were not an abstract religion, and wanted revenge for the Treaty of Versailles and food/job/inflation devolution.

"Muslims" is not ideology 100%, it is a religion not Nazism.

Not all Muslims have the same organized goal of killing Jews, Israeli government maybe but thats more of a hope that a plan.

[Vermillion]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

As I finish up Thomas Sowell's book, "Intellectuals and Society", I am amazed at the similarities between the Obama administration and the people who brought about the great depression and caused World War Two. Inept individuals, unaware of their ineptitude have throughout history caused more misery than any dictator or military aggressor because they are responsible for enabling the evil that destroys peace. Instead of realizing how incompetent they are and stepping aside to preserve peace, psuedo intellectuals like Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton foist their incredible ignorance on the world stage and endanger the entire human race. Like the "enlightened" and "self-annointed" pretenders of the past who allowed Hitler to re-arm and attack and annex his neighbors, the Obama administration reduces world events to abstract concepts of fairness and fair play ignoring the realities of an ignorant, brutally backward, midieval Arab ideology that wants a Palestinian state for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. It's absolutely astounding that people can't see the fatal disability and dangerousness of this administration and the threat they pose to the security of the United States, Israel and the entire free world. The back-stabbing stupidity of issuing ridiculous and (mortally perilous) ultimatums to Israel while simultaneously coddling violent Muslims is breathtaking. One can only hope the American people wake up and vote this fool and his leftist minions out of offce for good. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Seriously, I imagine that sounded like something that leaked out of Sean Hannity's ass while he was being sodomized by Rush Limbaugh.


Next time try presenting us with a logical and well thought out argument for your position m'kay?
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	Originally Posted by ray
	What is being said is eerily reminiscent of what was said in France while Hiter was sweeping accross borders in Austria and Czechsoslavakia. Appeasing mortal enemies to enhance one's reputation on the world stage is never a good idea. Does anyone seriously believe that Muslims will love us if we throw Israel under the bus? They hate us eternally for what we are not for what we do.

We REALLY need a facepalm smiley...