[peppersasen]

I was at the thread about
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
some day in the bright future (which I personally think a good idea because if it's legal at least it can be regulated like weed is controlled in the Netherlands). I posted:

Originally Posted by peppersasen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, I would really like that. If Big Pharma handled recreational drugs it would be pretty funny. I giggled imagining myself getting carded trying to get some crack. But, no seriously, it's a great idea. I think it would probably reduce the amount of HIV/hepatitis infections among IDUs provided injected drugs are sold the way I imagine Big Pharma SHOULD sell them. My model of heroine would be like: a new syringe per shot (it would be sold in a packet and the law would require the packet to have a mint syringe). And then they'd only be allowed to sell heroine along with syringes designed to break or become unusable after the first use. Save people's lives by making it legal to have some fun. That would be pretty cool. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. It reminds me of the Dutch model of "facilitation of hard drug use" (believe me, it's not as simplistic and amoral as people think it is) with their shooting areas/shooting galleries.

So I've asked Dr. Google whether [seriously] single-use syringes actually exist or whether I'm the only person in the whole damn world who thinks people are so dumb, yapping around about "not sharing needles" when it's physically/technically possible for people to reuse them in the first place [facepalm-facepalm-facepalm]. Bla, bla, bla, UNAIDS talks a lot and publishes a bunch of reports, bla, bla, blah.

According to Dr. Google, I shouldn't be so frustrated with the world because some smart people came up with the idea
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
(oh, you know those good old days when Keith Haring's work was on MTV PSAs--shit I'm old). In fact their idea is way smarter than mine: my original idea was kind of 19th century-ish where drawing liquid would trigger a hook to go off, the hook would go unaffected when you push to inject but the hook would lock, but then if you force-pulled to draw liquid the second time the barrel would break. And it would be made of plastic that acts like car windows (car window glass shatters on impact instead of cracking, making it impossible puzzle them back into use by taping it together). Someone already patented
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
--which can't be a bad thing. It even has
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
now. And heathcare workers would be required by procedure to break them so junkies can't go through hospital waste and reuse disposed syringes (they don't automatically self-destruct).

Now since that problem's solved, the next question is: do you think it's a good idea to sell liquid meds INSIDE syringes (instead of bottles) from now on and make it illegal to sell empty syringes to the public, and by "public" I mean hospitals and clinics? Like medication would come WITH the syringe as a part of the medication packet. When you buy insulin, you get insulin in a syringe. If it were illegal to sell empty syringes and only pharmaceutical companies would be licensed to purchase empty syringes (in various sizes), only legal medication could be inserted to and sold in syringes. And since only single-use syringes that break at first use are legal, heroine addicts would have to find different ways to take their heroine because reusable syringes would be non-existent.

From a scientific/medical point-of-view is this good policy? Who would it harm? Who would suffer/wouldn't benefit from this? Why should empty syringes remain so accessible? Why should reusable syringes not be made illegal? How would it impact cost of healthcare?

Is my idea crazy? Is my idea naïve? Is my idea stupid? Is my idea simplistic? Am I crazy, stupid, simplistic, AND naïve? Regardless, I still think current HIV/AIDS policies suck.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Einarr]

Selling them pre-INFECTED would solve the problem in 10-15 years. (sarcasm) :D

[Lupercal]

Doesn't matter, they're pretty useless without hypodermic needles
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:03 PM ----------

Nah seriously though, I think drugs should be treated as a health issue rather than as a criminal issue. It makes NO SENSE to treat addicts like criminals - drugs should be decriminalised so that doctors can prescribe them in ever-decreasing doses to the addicted. This would prevent the addicts from going out robbing and burgling to feed their habit, plus it would guarantee purity so that nobody dies from all the stuff the drugs are cut with

---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:05 PM ----------

Plus its a guaranteed revenue stream for the government

[Imagineering]

Originally Posted by Lupercal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Doesn't matter, they're pretty useless without hypodermic needles To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:03 PM ---------- Nah seriously though, I think drugs should be treated as a health issue rather than as a criminal issue. It makes NO SENSE to treat addicts like criminals - drugs should be decriminalised so that doctors can prescribe them in ever-decreasing doses to the addicted. This would prevent the addicts from going out robbing and burgling to feed their habit, plus it would guarantee purity so that nobody dies from all the stuff the drugs are cut with ---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:05 PM ---------- Plus its a guaranteed revenue stream for the government

well yeah but methadone clinics exist. But you know what the problem is? Rehab is where a lot of recovering addicts score new contacts for the habit.

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by Lupercal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Doesn't matter, they're pretty useless without hypodermic needles To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The heroine, you mean? My policy: as long as heroine stays illegal, I'd at least go Dutch and open shooting areas/shooting galleries. Otherwise, I'd make them legal (and therefore regulated), prescribed or over-the-counter in certain dosages.

Why do I not have any say in these kinds of things? Grrr! All I want is world domination and international dictatorship. Is that too much to ask for?

---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:22 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Imagineering To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	well yeah but methadone clinics exist. But you know what the problem is? Rehab is where a lot of recovering addicts score new contacts for the habit.

How about isolated rehab? Like prison holes? Or is that costly?

[Lupercal]

Isn't methadone more biologically harmful than heroin? I know it makes your teeth rot and fall out. I thought people were weaned onto methadone because it wasn't illegal, not because it was a particularly effective step towards rehab.

[discontinuous]

Well... it sounds like an efficient/good idea in theory.

For starters though, it is less economical, and wastes resources. Because a legitimate patient injecting meds daily will typically change the needles, therefore reusing the same syringe many times.

Second, making it illegal won't mean it will stop existing. Some may import from other countries, or local companies may start producing some under the radar due to large demand. The fact there will be less (rather than none) around, will make it harder for heroin users to practice safe injections, increasing the chances they will share needles, whereas before, only the brokest/laziest would have to share.

Third, heroin addicts are heroin addicts. Ever heard of chasing the dragon? (smoking it...) This may lead to increased lung problems, or increased doses to try and achieve the stronger injection "rush". Injection is surprisingly safe when done properly with well sterilized needles and pure substances.

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by Lupercal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Isn't methadone more biologically harmful than heroin? I know it makes your teeth rot and fall out. I thought people were weaned onto methadone because it wasn't illegal, not because it was a particularly effective step towards rehab.

Sorry if I wasn't clear on the original post, this thread isn't about drugs. It's not about which drug is more harmful than the other on its own, drug addiction, or which least harmful drug should be our drug of choice. It's about coexisting problems that come with drug use. This thread in particular focuses on infectious diseases you get through needle-sharing/using disposed needles (HIV, hepatitis). I'm proposing for medication to be pre-loaded into single-use syringes so they can not be reused by heroine junkies (or anyone).

[Lupercal]

Well it's a good idea in principle, but what about the correct dosage? Body size and drug tolerance are going to be factors here... Perhaps if several sizes/strengths are issued it would work

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by discontinuous To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For starters though, it is less economical, and wastes resources. Because a legitimate patient injecting meds daily will typically change the needles, therefore reusing the same syringe many times.

Really? I did not know that. When I was hospitalized they had to inject anti-nausea stuff into my IV and I think the nurse unwrapped a new syringe every morning... It was really thin-sized one (I've been injected by larger ones for anesthesia at the OR and I don't know whether that one was new or they just changed the needle). But then again, I was hospitalized and I'm not someone who has to use injected drugs on a daily basis like insulin, so I wouldn't know. I knew this would cost more one way or another (the model that 'self-destructs' with a hook and all does seem like it has more components in it, and I did imagine that some hospitals would reuse on the same patients to cut costs).

I still think it's a good preventive measure, though, because addicts wouldn't bother changing needles.

Originally Posted by discontinuous To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Second, making it illegal won't mean it will stop existing. Some may import from other countries, or local companies may start producing some under the radar due to large demand. The fact there will be less (rather than none) around, will make it harder for heroin users to practice safe injections, increasing the chances they will share needles, whereas before, only the brokest/laziest would have to share.

This! This is why I studied international law. Muahaha. *drafts a treaty*

Well, okay, let's get serious again: I don't expect instant gratification. I know in the beginning it will lead to a syringe shortage which will lead to quite the needle-junkie ratio. I know it sounds cruel to let today's junkies to be sacrificed until reusable syringes FINALLY become non-existent and we can move on to the shooting galleries.

It's kind of like this: have you ever lived in a developing country where children beg? I have. Well, in reality (just like on
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
) the begging is actually organized by a "beggar businessman". You're NOT supposed to give those children your change--if you're well-informed about human rights. But when I lived in that country, half of the time my F defeated my T and I kept giving my small change to those children because they chopped my heart into pieces (the only time I wouldn't give them my change was when I was at red lights where it's dangerous for lone women to be opening their car windows). I know it sounds cruel to not give small children beggars money, because when I don't give them money, their "boss" beats the shit out of them or starves them for not making enough money. But by not giving the beggars money, we're teaching the boss a lesson that exploiting children to become beggars for him doesn't work and he'll have to start a different business (which hopefully doesn't involve exploiting children the next time). Yes, it's cruel of me to get these children further abused, but I've got to think long-term and see the big picture. It's cutting a cycle by being cruel to the first generation/batch, cruel but I believe it's necessary. ALTHOUGH, last time I did give the kids my change. Meh, I need to toughen up.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

	Originally Posted by discontinuous To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Third, heroin addicts are heroin addicts. Ever heard of chasing the dragon? (smoking it...) This may lead to increased lung problems, or increased doses to try and achieve the stronger injection "rush". Injection is surprisingly safe when done properly with well sterilized needles and pure substances.

That's why you should vote for me: because I'm going to open shooting galleries!
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 03:00 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Lupercal To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Well it's a good idea in principle, but what about the correct dosage? Body size and drug tolerance are going to be factors here... Perhaps if several sizes/strengths are issued it would work

Like I said in the original post: "If it were illegal to sell empty syringes and only pharmaceutical companies would be licensed to purchase empty syringes (in various sizes), only legal medication could be inserted to and sold in syringes."

[Sk8ordude]

There aren't any germs that can survive a good sterilization process (heat or chemical can be done cheap a number of ways), druggies are just lazy when they are lost in their sauce of choice.

Anyways reusable syringes are useful in a variety of applications besides injecting people with illegal stuff, and even with it is it would be pretty expensive and inefficient to only use needles once, not to mention how ungreen that is.

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by Sk8ordude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Anyways reusable syringes are useful in a variety of applications besides injecting people with illegal stuff, and even with it is it would be pretty expensive and inefficient to only use needles once, not to mention how ungreen that is.

I've thought about that:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. I noticed some of the larger chain stores in the country I currently live in even have started using them and it's becoming more common (and this country isn't the most progressive in terms of going out of its way to go green, as I said this was initiative of the large chain stores). Should we make it a requirement that single-use syringes' barrel/components are made of biodegradable plastic?

As for the metal for needles, I'm not aware of an environmentally-friendly solution to that, sorry. But when I'm finally an international dictator, I'll have friends in high places and I'll ask my scientist friends to develop some form of "green mental" (or at least as environmentally-friendly as metals/minerals can get).
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Vagrant]

Reusing syringes isn't a problem if they're properly sterilized.

[NancyS]

Go into a pharmacy and ask for syringes & needles and they act like you asked for a nuclear bomb.

Go into a farm supply store and ask for syringes & needles and they ask 'what size and how many?'

[peppersasen]

	Originally Posted by NancyS To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Go into a pharmacy and ask for syringes & needles and they act like you asked for a nuclear bomb. Go into a farm supply store and ask for syringes & needles and they ask 'what size and how many?'

But are you denied service and goods? Or do you get a weird are-you-a-junkie-or-just-a-diabetic look, pay the price, get a weird are-you-a-junkie-or-just-a-diabetic look again, and take your syringes home? I'm assuming it's the later.

It's kind of like buying condoms, I guess. When I was about 15 (and I looked about 11-12 years old at that time), I was at a pharmacy getting LipSmackers (now I use Chapstick, I swear). At the cashier, I see this fish bowl full of square candies that looked like thin coins with thick edges on the. I took one in stawberry, one in banana, one green candy, a grape-flavored one. And the entire store just huddled around me (because it was a fancy imported-shit pharmacy, so they didn't have that many customers to attend to). I took around blushing but went on with my candy shopping. Until someone points out that I'm picking flavored condoms. So I paid for my LipSmackers and I left. Why are pharmacies full of judgmental, nosy people? Damn.

Do diabetics have produce paperwork/receipts to purchase syringes?

[Abgrund]

	Originally Posted by NancyS To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Go into a pharmacy and ask for syringes & needles and they act like you asked for a nuclear bomb. Go into a farm supply store and ask for syringes & needles and they ask 'what size and how many?'

Those livestock needles are damn dull, though. You practically have to drive them in with a hammer.

---------- Post added 05-15-2011 at 02:42 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by peppersasen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But are you denied service and goods? Or do you get a weird are-you-a-junkie-or-just-a-diabetic look, pay the price, get a weird are-you-a-junkie-or-just-a-diabetic look again, and take your syringes home? I'm assuming it's the later.

You have to have a prescription.