[Zhen]

a) causes misunderstandings?
b) manages to piss of 1. males 2. females

I am just wondering cos I notice this happens frequently with most people except other INTJs or types that significantly overlap with my INTJ....

would appreciate thoughts, insights and revelations...thanks
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[Bluesea]

If you are noticing this does not happen with INTJ or other types (not sure what you mean by overlap - that have components of INTJ in them?) it might be that you are speaking too much from your own understanding and way of processing information and this is unable to be understood by someone who processes information differently. Maybe study up on the other types - S, F, P, E - and reflect on whether you can deliver information to these types in ways they can more easily process?

This was a good read for reflection:
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[Zhen]

Originally Posted by Bluesea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you are noticing this does not happen with INTJ or other types (not sure what you mean by overlap - that have components of INTJ in them?) it might be that you are speaking too much from your own understanding and way of processing information and this is unable to be understood by someone who processes information differently. Maybe study up on the other types - S, F, P, E - and reflect on whether you can deliver information to these types in ways they can more easily process? This was a good read for reflection: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

thanks for the link. yeah i don't ever have this problem with other intjs and usually not with similar eg NT at the same levels as me... I think the main problem is that intj females are so rare to come across in society that people are not used to how we are and misinterpret and misunderstand...however I am not sure exactly what qualities or behaviour it is that causes problems with the majority population...

maybe i should just own it as a personal thing but because I never have issues with intjs I think it's a type thing...

[Bluesea]

Considerations: Sometimes it is assuming others are as intersted in Ni processing as you or in TJ views of emotional issues if they are F types. Learn to validate emotions first before considering the problem solving and only do that if they request it. Learn to ask people what they want from you. instead of intuitiing what that is from what they are saying.

Of course it could be a personal thing and nothing to do with type as you say. However exploration of the preferences of other types in communicatoiin can't hurt and could help with this issue regardless.

[Monte314]

	Originally Posted by Zhen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am just wondering cos I notice this happens frequently with most people except other INTJs or types that significantly overlap with my INTJ....

If I understand you correctly, you are asking about the cosine of i. That would be approximately 1.543080634815243778477905620757061682601529112365 8637047374

See? INTJ's understand you perfectly!

[Indubitably]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I understand you correctly, you are asking about the cosine of i. That would be approximately 1.543080634815243778477905620757061682601529112365 8637047374 See? INTJ's understand you perfectly!

Come on now, you know thats not what she meant. Obviously she intended to ask for the cosine of 1, and was just using roman numerals because she wanted to be original. And since we all know that the cos of 1 is roughly equal to the cos of pi/3, the answer to her question is clearly 1/2.

[Monte314]

Sorry; you are probably right.

I'm just a Dog...

[Zhen]

haha gotta love a maths genius...of which i am not...

from my literal brain and where I hail a Cosi might=a swimming costume...just in case you were interested
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I do love the simplicity of numbers though, thanks indubitably that you managed to reduce my concerns to a very manageable 1/2, love it! LOL

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by Zhen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	a) causes misunderstandings? b) manages to piss of 1. males 2. females

For some of them:
They are girls that don't understand the why or how of smalltalk and subtle social niceties.
They don't even realize things like that studying in a noisy unproductive group is a better study method than going off to teach yourself the material and get the work done.
Or that when boys offer to walk them home it is sometimes so that the conversation can continue, not that they don't know the directions.

They are so irrational and silly! Tsk tsk...
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On a serious note: they don't seem to see the point in ineffective things
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Which makes them stand out from most everyone else.

[Zhen]

Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

For some of them: They are girls that don't understand the why or how of smalltalk and subtle social niceties. They don't even realize things like that studying in a noisy unproductive group is a better study method than going off to teach yourself the material and get the work done. Or that when boys offer to walk them home it is sometimes so that the conversation can continue, not that they don't know the directions. They are so irrational and silly! Tsk tsk... To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. On a serious note: they don't seem to see the point in ineffective things To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Which makes them stand out from most everyone else.

out of curiosity, how many INTJ females have you ever known in real life?! I agree with the small talk and social niceties that's a big one. The noisy group thing is more for bonding- can't study effectively like that I can't think over the squeals and get distracted and or bored by girly gossip.

oh boys always know directions...lol I've been around long enough
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i think you helped me distill the problem into an essence...intj females are like men in the exterior of females the way they think, behave etc...females find this too insensitive and unemotional eg they want sympathy and hugs rather than step by step explanations detailing solutions to their problems. If they wanted this they could go to a man who would at least give them a consolation hug/pity perhaps?

Males are expecting a typical female since that is what they see with their eyes...it is quite offputting when they are met with a male mindset and possibly ego LOL- I'd say it is quite threatening to some of them as the typical female around men is submissive, emotional, plays dumb and lacks self esteem/self confidence...

i think all the intj females i have come across seem quite self assured, independent, capable and self confident, which I find very refreshing
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Maybe most typical men don't like that though cos it sort of makes them feel a little redundant...

[Tactical Panda]

I know just one. I looked out for her like she was my little sister and kept her under my wing, although it was never obvious.

Good luck with solving this problem
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No more hints.

[DeaconSyre]

	Originally Posted by Zhen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	a) causes misunderstandings? b) manages to piss of 1. males 2. females

a) Differences in thinking style plain and simple.

b) They have a bad response to the realization that you aren't who you're "supposed" to be. Also: see a.

[rbc]

	Originally Posted by Monte314 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If I understand you correctly, you are asking about the cosine of i. That would be approximately 1.543080634815243778477905620757061682601529112365 8637047374

	Originally Posted by Indubitably To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And since we all know that the cos of 1 is roughly equal to the cos of pi/3, the answer to her question is clearly 1/2.

Of these two answers, I prefer Monte's (have you ever tried doing division with Roman numerals?
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), but even that isn't quite right: pi/2 is cos(arg(i)), not cos(i). The cosine of the imaginary unit itself, not of the principle angle of its polar representation, is (e + 1/e)/2.
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[Abgrund]

INTJ's are arrogant. We tend not to shoot our mouths off when we have no knowledge, and to correct others who do so.

Humans, OTOH, do it all the time. To them, everything outside themselves is ephemeral, transient, irrelevant, unless it is endowed with obvious and immediate power against them.

Humans resent being reminded of a reality beyond their personal perception. INTJ's don't understand this.

[K27]

	Originally Posted by Tactical Panda To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For some of them: They are girls that don't understand... that when boys offer to walk them home it is sometimes so that the conversation can continue, not that they don't know the directions.

*cry in guilt and shame*
I replied, "Why, I know how to go back home!"

It may be safe to predict here that I will die a virgin.

[therrirl]

Originally Posted by Abgrund To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

INTJ's are arrogant. We tend not to shoot our mouths off when we have no knowledge, and to correct others who do so. Humans, OTOH, do it all the time. To them, everything outside themselves is ephemeral, transient, irrelevant, unless it is endowed with obvious and immediate power against them. Humans resent being reminded of a reality beyond their personal perception. INTJ's don't understand this.

No, have you read your own personality report. We only comment if we actually know something or understand something. Hence the whole introverted part. We are more than not right about everything we say. That is what pisses people off. We come off as arrogant because we have confidence. We have confidence because we've studied and we "know" we are right. If we are wrong, we will accept such things and retune ourselves.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by Zhen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i don't ever have this problem with other intjs and usually not with similar eg NT at the same levels as me...

That kind of thing bothers me. What does that mean? To be "at the same level" as you?

	Originally Posted by therrirl To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We are more than not right about everything we say. That is what pisses people off. We come off as arrogant because we have confidence. We have confidence because we've studied and we "know" we are right. If we are wrong, we will accept such things and retune ourselves.

Every INTJ claims to be perfectly willing to change his opinion if he's shown convincing evidence to the contrary. The problem is that no one has ever shown them that kind of evidence, and it's always the result of a shortcoming in the other person. For every one good faith change of an INTJ's opinion, how many of us have dug our heels in and shrieked about "strawmen" and other synonyms for "Nuh-uh, I'm right and you're a poopy head!" I bet it's at least a thousand to one in favor of closed-mindedness.

[therrirl]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That kind of thing bothers me. What does that mean? To be "at the same level" as you? Every INTJ claims to be perfectly willing to change his opinion if he's shown convincing evidence to the contrary. The problem is that no one has ever shown them that kind of evidence, and it's always the result of a shortcoming in the other person. For every one good faith change of an INTJ's opinion, how many of us have dug our heels in and shrieked about "strawmen" and other synonyms for "Nuh-uh, I'm right and you're a poopy head!" I bet it's at least a thousand to one in favor of closed-mindedness.

INTJ's seek to better themselves all the time. I'm not saying that an argument has not gone to emotional levels in some cases, with words of ignorant and such being used. When given moments to compose ourselves we will often come back and try to re-explain the situation and show the other person that we see thier side and either the merrits or flaws associated with thier beliefs. Also consider that we do like backing on a comment. We ask for clarity. We provide such clarity to others and try to give examples in such ways that make sense.
I don't think name calling to elicit responses is a General INTJ thing. Name calling or over reactions generally are kin to more emotional conversationalists. We will "name call" from another's point of view, but in reality from ours we maybe calling it as we see it. If someone's point of view is naive, i will tell them this. I will tell them where to go to seek true information. If they are being immature, i will call them on that. Ignorant is the same way. Just because you are living doesn't mean your opinion carries weight. I ask a person to think and base it on something more than this is my opinion. This is especially true when dealing with a rational discussion. So I don't think it is name calling in the classical sense, though often perceived as such. I like my conversations to have a merrit of truth to them or for the other to concede that maybe they need to be more open to an argument. There have been many times I have been forced to re-evaluate my position based on confronted facts and opinions for people who matter. There is such a thing as a professional opinion . . . and other opinions that carry less wieght.

[Reddkatz]

	Originally Posted by Zhen To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	a) causes misunderstandings? b) manages to piss of 1. males 2. females I am just wondering cos I notice this happens frequently with most people except other INTJs or types that significantly overlap with my INTJ.... would appreciate thoughts, insights and revelations...thanks To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

They have to approach me first in order to make that opinion.

I usually give off an aura of uneasily approachable to complete strangers, even when I am not intending to. It could be the manner of how I look at them or just my detached nature at the world (because I usually have a book at my nose).

Women who see me will just think of me a bitch and walk off, but the men that are brave enough to approach me to engage in a conversation with me will find that either a) I don't find an interest in them to engage in a conversation, or b) I am not in a mood to actually talk with anyone, or c) I am in a good mood so I don't mind talking to them. When I am caught at C people usually give me good regards.

[therrirl]

Originally Posted by Reddkatz To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

They have to approach me first in order to make that opinion. I usually give off an aura of uneasily approachable to complete strangers, even when I am not intending to. It could be the manner of how I look at them or just my detached nature at the world (because I usually have a book at my nose). Women who see me will just think of me a bitch and walk off, but the men that are brave enough to approach me to engage in a conversation with me will find that either a) I don't find an interest in them to engage in a conversation, or b) I am not in a mood to actually talk with anyone, or c) I am in a good mood so I don't mind talking to them. When I am caught at C people usually give me good regards.

Red,

I love the way you put things, very cute and right to the point.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by therrirl To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If someone's point of view is naive, i will tell them this. I will tell them where to go to seek true information. If they are being immature, i will call them on that. Ignorant is the same way. Just because you are living doesn't mean your opinion carries weight. I ask a person to think and base it on something more than this is my opinion.

I notice that in these examples, it's the other person who's being naive, immature, ignorant, and otherwise in possession of a faulty opinion. It's a subtle thing, and I don't mean to latch onto what in this case is largely semantics (the use of "I" in the examples), but this is the kind of thing that I'm getting at. It seems to me that any time an INTJ has an opinion-- and there are times when we're smart enough not to-- it's always some kind of unassailable, perfectly-thought out, fully rational position.

"I have an opinion, and I think I'm smart, therefore my opinion must be well-reasoned... So let me tell you why you're wrong because you disagree with me." I see much more of that than honest attempts to at least temporarily entertain a divergent opinion and gain whatever useful perspective there may be in it. You look smarter when you dismiss things out of hand with that "I'm so smart that I've already heard it all before" kind of air.

[therrirl]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I notice that in these examples, it's the other person who's being naive, immature, ignorant, and otherwise in possession of a faulty opinion. It's a subtle thing, and I don't mean to latch onto what in this case is largely semantics (the use of "I" in the examples), but this is the kind of thing that I'm getting at. It seems to me that any time an INTJ has an opinion-- and there are times when we're smart enough not to-- it's always some kind of unassailable, perfectly-thought out, fully rational position. "I have an opinion, and I think I'm smart, therefore my opinion must be well-reasoned... So let me tell you why you're wrong because you disagree with me." I see much more of that than honest attempts to at least temporarily entertain a divergent opinion and gain whatever useful perspective there may be in it. You look smarter when you dismiss things out of hand with that "I'm so smart that I've already heard it all before" kind of air.

Well, INTJ's tend to study and accumulate knowledge before a discussion. I know personally that if I know nothing about a topic or subject i will state such things. If I know something I will clarify that "This is all I know". If someone asks for an opinion which I don't readily share unless asked, I will state "this is an unsubstatiated opinion." If it is a professional oppinon i will readily give such things as I feel I am an expert in that area and can largely count the opinion as such. So yes you are right, it does seem to be biased about the "other" person being naive or immature, or ignorant. Now if I'm on the same playing field of thier opinion vs. mine and I have no additional knowledge, i will not press an argument. I take great efforts to see things from anothers point of view. I would think with N being high on the list most INTJ's also do this thing.

[Melchizedek]

Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"I have an opinion, and I think I'm smart, therefore my opinion must be well-reasoned... So let me tell you why you're wrong because you disagree with me." I see much more of that than honest attempts to at least temporarily entertain a divergent opinion and gain whatever useful perspective there may be in it. You look smarter when you dismiss things out of hand with that "I'm so smart that I've already heard it all before" kind of air.

This is probably the biggest weakness of most INTJs, and probably the best reason some people don't like us. And by "us" I don't mean me, of course, because I'm smart and my opinions are well-reasoned.