[Taste of peat]

I could consider myself as a lucky guy : I know 3 intelligent, nice and beautiful girls I thought about as eventual girlfriends.
But I don't think I'll do a lot with any of her, and that sucks.

- The first one is a 17 year old high school student. She's an INTP. Pretty cute, knowledgeable, she listens fine music... and she's very shy.
I already spent time with her, lately an evening, but she got tired because of the hour and afraid of her parents (they wanted her to go home at 2 am and she went there at 5). I don't really know if I could try.
We are in the same scuba diving club, I'm a pool monitor and she's a student. Another monitor has been trying to flirt with her for, like 6 months at least. He's 35 and she never went with him. I'd add a trivial, but important, stuff : when we are together with nobody else, I always have to speak much, as she doesn't. If we were together, I'd probably be tired of making the most important part of our conversation (as probably any introverted guy, I guess).

- The second girl is a 23 year old ENFP. She has Greek origins, making her look a bit like those statues in the museums. I already talked about her on this forum (
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).
So, she's not attracted anymore by scientology (and now, even if it was still the case, I wouldn't care), but I realized that she was a highly manipulative girl. She dated me first, some months ago. I dated her then, we went 3 times to the restaurant, then I kissed her on the mouth and she told me she'd like us to be friends. Well...
We didn't see each other anymore (or almost not) for a long time. Then I saw her again with a common friend, we dated again and finally kissed each other. When I went back home, she called me and we were constantly exchaning messages. One week after, we went to a museum, cuddled a bit, kissed, she was even pleased by my sarcastic sense of humor, this was so good ! And one other week after... the same thing than before, "you know, I'm not sure", blah blah blah. What the f...? When we met this time (with our common friend again), she refused to kiss me but said she'd put her life in my hands if she needed to, as I "always have good ideas" (she said) ; one week ago, when we went to the museum, she was talking about me coming to her flat...
Everything here is completely nonsensical. Unless she wants me to be disoriented. Or maybe she's not sure for herself - but this just goes too far.

- The third girl, perhaps the most interesting one, is a 24 year old ENTP. She's blond and cute with incredible hair. I've been flirting with her for months.
Two weeks ago, I could have kissed her, but I didn't - because I thought I was with the ENFP girl, and I was wrong. Now I just invited her to a dinner, and she answered OK, but after this week-end, because she's leaving with... her boyfriend. Should I still try ? Can it be a test ? I remember an ENTJ tomboy I met in vacations : she said once "a boyfriend or girlfriend is not a mountain, you can move it" (and she did with her own boyfriend, eh eh).
To be precise, I have to say that this girl lives in my city just for studies, and often goes back to her region on week-ends.

There are a lot of things I didn't say, as I forgot or was just lazy. The 2nd and 3rd girl are playing "precious", like little flowers on the wind, when they can be (and probably are) more manipulative than cynical guys like us. Maybe I'm attracted by this kind of girls, the most "feminine" ones, those who have some specific kind of charm I couldn't really define.

Then, what is the point ?
To be honest, I'd like to say "screw it, girls and social stuff are just too complicated, I'm going home", but there is a part of myself which doesn't want to. I'm just talking about my life (and you don't have to care after all, as I don't care much about... well, a lot of people), so, if you've been reading all this post, let me ask : what do you think ?

[Plethorix]

Trade one of the girls for a cup and buy a video camera.

[rahdam]

There's only one possibility here: 1 guy (that's you), 3 girls (them), and clothing optional!

[Dallyoop]

Only gonna talk about the third one in my post here.

It sounds like you are the most interested in her, but really could you EVER trust a person that would cheat on their boyfriend/girlfriend? I know I could never trust them because I am all about loyalty. And if a person can't be loyal to the person they are with, then there is no way they will be loyal to me.

I always figured it like this. If the person I like has a boyfriend, but wants to date me, they should take the risk to break up with their boyfriend instead of playing it the safe route and cheating on him. It is a risk for them then, on one hand they may have a great relationship with me and it will all be worth it. On the other, it may not work out and then the woman will have lost both. But at least they will not have been a cheater and can keep their self respect.

I made a deal with my ex wife that if she ever liked another guy then she could just tell me and we would split and she could do whatever she wanted with him.

She didn't and tried to play it safe by cheating on me. Needless to say I found out right away and it was all the worse for her as she then lost anything that could have been amiable in the divorce. All because of disloyalty.

[stock]

I vote for number one.

I must say that "move a mountain" comment is funny though.

[rbc]

	Originally Posted by Taste of peat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	She's an INTP. when we are together with nobody else, I always have to speak much, as she doesn't. If we were together, I'd probably be tired of making the most important part of our conversation (as probably any introverted guy, I guess).

She's an introvert, too, so she's probably just as tired of making conversation as you are! Find activities where you can enjoy the silence together, and only talk when you feel like you actually have something to say. If you just abandon the unnatural social fear of time when neither of you is talking, the silence often actually helps introverts relax. The ultimate expression of love from an introvert is, "Being with you is like being alone, only better."

[zibber]

The last two clearly aren't an option.

[Fox]

Wait one of them is 17? Is that legal where you are?

[Taste of peat]

She's an introvert, too, so she's probably just as tired of making conversation as you are! Find activities where you can enjoy the silence together, and only talk when you feel like you actually have something to say. If you just abandon the unnatural social fear of time when neither of you is talking, the silence often actually helps introverts relax. The ultimate expression of love from an introvert is, "Being with you is like being alone, only better."

You're probably right. While thinking about that, I'm not sure she is a N type. Maybe she's an ISTP. In both cases, I'll try silence when I can.

	Originally Posted by Fox To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Wait one of them is 17? Is that legal where you are?

It is.

[Rho1334]

id say none of them. the 17 year old has alot of maturing to do and the other two are just not an option.

[Taste of peat]

Let's go for some news...

About the first girl, I'll see her at my birthday party in 3 weeks. Actually, I don't know if I'll have the opportunity to do something with her, but I don't really care as there will be several interesting girls.

About the second one, we don't meet nor talk anymore together - and I don't care at all, even if I still have good memories with her. She tried to play with my choices and emotions, all I did is putting a glass in front of her by telling her I wouldn't trap my own life and mind under her always-shifting choices. When I told her so by phone, she just said "okay". The ball was in her court and she stopped everything (by never calling me back).
Well, I felt a bit sad the following evening, but now I think this is better. I'd rather stop this kind a insane relationship at the very begenning, than finish like a slave of a girls' emotions and false choices. We don't live at chivalry time, no sane man should put his life between the hands of a shifting, capricious. Sane men manage their own lifes by themselves - or at least try to act this way.

About the third girl, it's becoming interesting.
Now I know I could have kissed her, and I didn't, because I thought I was with the ENFP girl (and because I thought I had to respect some kind of fidelity at the very beginning - another moral illusion). But wait a sec. This girl, the third one, dumped her boyfriend and became closer to me. However, she never had time to spend with me - it was OK for talking before or after classes, but I couldn't see her at any other time. Once, I took her hand, almost kissed her, she seemed pleased. Of course, she were in a hurry and didn't have time to spend with me right now, so I had to wait for the promised dinner and...
Then, some days after, she started to talk again about her boyfriend (did she come back with him ?). I still talked about our dinner, and she started to say :
- "what do you actually want to do ? I don't really understand..."
Me : "Well, dine with you, I guess. We already talked about that."
- "But why ?"
Me : "Just because. Something like that doesn't have to be justified."
- "But I usually dine with people close to me, we're not close !"
I felt like I received an ice block on the top of my head.
Maybe she talked in a naive manner. Maybe it was a strategy and she wanted me to say "of course we're close", but well, I already felt affected by her words about her boyfriend. And then... that words.
I don't take up very often with people, but here I did, month after month, desire after desire... well, you've got the point.
When I could come through the painful feeling, I sent her a SMS to ask her a common friend's phone number. I didn't say why. This common friend is a pretty nice 35 years old woman with which we talked sometimes.
She never answered. I just saw her today, for our last common class. As she was late, I was sitting between another common friend and her. This common friend had a paper to give to her, and he would give it to me (then I could give it to her) but she woke up and took the paper by herself, looking anything but me, in a self-evident way. When the class was over, she woke up and immediately flee from the classroom (whereas she's used to stay after class and talk a bit with the teacher and some other students). She acted as if she was jealous, and she probably was.

Well, f... her now.
I have enough of spoilt, big-headed princesses. Enough of feelings, never-satisfied physical desires and fake hopes.
Now I'll just play a game. Dating has to be understood as a game, not as a sacred or holy stuff. All our education, the movies we see, tell us how specific and transcending love is. Experience shows us (and PUA stuff too) that such a belief is pure illusion. Everyone - not only men - has its interests in love.
If dating is not a game, made for fun rather than conquering, then it becomes the land of shifting feelings - it becomes something like war in mind.
I found some other opportunities, now I won't bind myself anymore to these, just play and have fun. My INTJ tendancy to analyse will work by itself then.

Excuse the mistakes, I'm a bit tired right now.

[PurpleGiraffe]

Originally Posted by Taste of peat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Now I'll just play a game. Dating has to be understood as a game, not as a sacred or holy stuff. All our education, the movies we see, tell us how specific and transcending love is. Experience shows us (and PUA stuff too) that such a belief is pure illusion. Everyone - not only men - has its interests in love. If dating is not a game, made for fun rather than conquering, then it becomes the land of shifting feelings - it becomes something like war in mind. I found some other opportunities, now I won't bind myself anymore to these, just play and have fun. My INTJ tendancy to analyse will work by itself then.

Really? You leapt from things not working out with three girls to how all of relationships are a game and, therefore, PUA, etc. sh*t is true? I'm sorry things didn't work out for you (I really am), but you might want to reevaluate that maybe it is not that all relationships are game but that you were just dealing with three young, immature individuals and because none of them worked out you potentially felt disappointed and upset that you had gotten a little overzealous - but that's just what it looks like from here (and I can be wrong). Examine and analyze what happened with these three girls and just take them as learning experiences, because you are young and they are young. Then pick yourself up, try some more with other girls, and go from there.

[Weltschmerzer]

No offense, but the commonality in these three aborted relationships is you. Maybe they are all immature, but that also says something about you. Perhaps you should examine your own conduct in these matters. Sorry if this post was worded harshly.

[Taste of peat]

Originally Posted by PurpleGiraffe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Really? You leapt from things not working out with three girls to how all of relationships are a game and, therefore, PUA, etc. sh*t is true? I'm sorry things didn't work out for you (I really am), but you might want to reevaluate that maybe it is not that all relationships are game but that you were just dealing with three young, immature individuals and because none of them worked out you potentially felt disappointed and upset that you had gotten a little overzealous - but that's just what it looks like from here (and I can be wrong). Examine and analyze what happened with these three girls and just take them as learning experiences, because you are young and they are young. Then pick yourself up, try some more with other girls, and go from there.

Experience. This is what I was talking about with the expression "opportunities". When I was talking about playing a game, I meant dating and all the stuff without getting feelingly bound to the girls, as a protection from what we could call painful externalities.

	No offense, but the commonality in these three aborted relationships is you. Maybe they are all immature, but that also says something about you. Perhaps you should examine your own conduct in these matters. Sorry if this post was worded harshly.

Of course my behavious had (and still has) a part of influence in the whole case. Actually, I just blamed the third girl, not the other ones.
I had an opportunity with the INTP girl that I didn't dare to take : what is done is done. Maybe I'll have some further opportunities with her, maybe not. I feel light enough about that right now.
The ENFP girl was highly manipulative, but we spent some good time together. I won't blame her for what she is. Probably because I wasn't too much bound to her yet.
About the third one, this is a bit different. I think I should have been more direct and should have taken the opportunity to kiss her. Still, "what is done is done" and my feelings about her have decreased now. Here, my own mistakes don't erase the game she played - at least the ENFP girl was pretty honest about her shifting feelings and choices, while the other, at the end, was almost using my feelings as strings for a puppet, something I just couldn't stand.

We learn from experience and if experience is basically positive, it still encapsulates mistakes, imperfections, falseness. No human is perfect and no experience can be. When it comes about love, this can be painful because of the feelings and caused boundaries.
In some way, love is a dialectical path. Less than war, of course, but still.

Anyway, thanks for your interest, it makes me precise my thought.

[Autumnleaf]

A foursome is your best option. It is better to aim high and miss than to aim low and hit what you are aiming at.

[larrysb]

What life lessons do each of these women have for you?

What stage of development does your anima parallel in any of them?

[Uncle Mort]

Let's be honest, we're talking "in your dreams" here.