Eye Contact.

**BostonIan** · 03-20-2011, 10:59 AM

Japanese Eye Contact Training:
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,
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So, looking at these videos, I can feel the stress in my body unwind, something melt. There is nothing to the videos, just a blank stare, yet I can watch them repeatedly and not get bored. Your reaction, fascinating or boring?

Eye contact is one of my peculiarities. In the past, I once held eye-contact with the same unfamiliar young woman every day for two years, prefer it during intimacy, and have called holding eye contact "kissing with your eyes", a functional substitute for when that act is inappropriate.

Unwinding it in myself, I consider myself a "watcher" more than an in-the-moment experiencer in life. I tend to fixate on things intensely. Lifestyle, I stress myself, think hard, work hard, walk fast; have needed to find outlets for the stress. Being more solitary, I've found ways of connection suitable to my behavior.

"INTJ stare" being a known thing, how prevalent is my eye contact peccadillo in you all? Is it type-particular? What is your experience with eye-contact?

**Zsych** · 03-20-2011, 11:01 AM

This makes me smile the way most people trying to stare me down make me smile. I think the INTJ stare is mental intensity from when you're interested or trying to solve a problem and not actually staring.

Added a few more links:

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**alex3ff** · 03-26-2011, 11:43 PM

Interesting. I watched these videos from start to finish, and I couldn't look her in the eyes for long periods... Not because I was afraid, but because I found her vacant stare not engaging. Without facial movements and interaction, I constantly found myself looking for something more interesting to do/think about/look at. It's not the behavior I would've expected from myself.

I've struggled with eye contact since about age 15 when I first started becoming aware of it, namely wondering what the "proper" way to do it was. I used to be really outgoing after highschool + 3 years after, but I realized that I actually didn't make much eye contact with people, always preferring to talk to them like we were in a car driving, instead. So around 20 I made a conscious effort to start making more eye contact in a purposeful manner, b/c I got the feeling that people felt I wasn't interested in what they were saying (who knows maybe it was true). Fast forward after 8 years of integrated eye contact training, and I think my purposeful direct stares intended to show that I am interested freak people out, rather than engage them. I get called creepy once in a while, and I can definitely tell that I scare some people. So anyway, lately I've been trying to undo the eye contact training, because a la some sort of nature vs. nurture argument, I think I am naturally programmed to function better not making it very often.

But, interesting videos. The Japanese are a very interesting culture.

**wstim05** · 03-27-2011, 12:13 AM

yeah I agree with "alex3ff", although I COULD look at the person from start to finish, i found myself wanting to look away at something more interesting, rather than actually being uncomfortable with it. I have quite a bit of trouble with eye contact, especially when i become aware of it, and i start thinking about it. If i am talking to someone, i just sort of glance up at them to meet their eyes, and then look somewhere else. i feel like if i make eye contact too long it would just be odd, and i find myself feeling like im just staring at them blankly..

Jjust like the above person, i think conversation flows much better whilst im driving a car or something, where direct eye contact is not an option. I think its really weird how some people look at the other person while they are talking, even when the other person isnt looking at them, for eg. they are driving.

**Minerva** · 03-27-2011, 12:35 AM

Personally the videos are boring. Maybe if you put up a video with a physically attractive guy then I might be more interested?
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Seriously, I would still be bored unless it was someone I had romantic feelings for??? I have never gotten "lost in eyes" and I have never been in love before so I don't really know for sure. That said, I think I could get lost in eyes like those of

[HIDE="Cillian Murphy"]
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[/HIDE]

I still remember the first time I saw him in a movie: I could barely stop focusing on his eyes. I do find them quite beautiful while others have said that they are too intense.

Some of the INTJs I know have brilliant stares, others do not. I have been told that my eyes are penetrative and that it seems as if I can see right through people, and I am not INTJ. I do, however, have large eyes and they are very expressive unless I chose not to show what I am feeling.

@alex3ff
Making too much eye contact does tend to unnerve people. You don't have to hold eye contact throughout the conversation. Feel free to look away at times, even looking down at your hands, or if you are seated at a table, look down at the table and then look back to the person. In my opinion, once you look back at him/her and are not showing that you are distracted by doodling etc (although I know that one of my INTJ friends do this even when he is listening intently) then this will indicate to the other person that you are indeed listening.

@OP: Some examples of my experience with eye contact

If it is a one on one conversation: I hold it for a while then I look away for a bit and then hold eye contact for a while again.

If I am making a presentation to a room full of people: Make eye contact with many different people.

If I am explaining things to a student: I hold eye contact, if the student makes it with me, while he/she is asking questions. If the student looks away (this happens because some of them are shy and once again I know my eyes are not the easiest thing to look at) then I still look towards their eyes to make them know that he/she has my undivided attention. If I don't need to go to the board or to explain a diagram on a page etc then I try to hold eye contact/look at them while explaining.

**orbit79** · 03-27-2011, 12:40 AM

I had an abusive ex (who is still in my life, and always will be to some extent as we share a child) who used to, and still does to some extent, stare longingly into my eyes for long periods of time. When things were good it was ok, but when things turned bad it started making me feel really uncomfortable. She still does it and it's as though she's trying to break through to me and show me how much she loves me. I know how much she loves me, but I'm not willing to be abused. When she stares at me like that and tries to force me to look back into her eyes, I feel violated, and like my personal space is being well and truly invaded. In other aspects of my life, particularly in business, I believe that eye contact is generally a positive thing, and I attempt to always shake somebody's hand and look them straight in the eye on meeting.

**Vulkan** · 03-27-2011, 12:50 AM

Eye contact is an interesting thing, when I talk with someone I usually look them in the eye, and I often make eye contact with people when I'm not talking. Sometimes it actually distracts me from talking, because I begin to wonder what they're thinking instead of concentrating on putting my relevant thoughts into words.

**Falhalterra** · 03-27-2011, 08:50 AM

I used to be really afraid of making eye contact when I was younger, and to a degree, I can still get kind of nervous to look someone in the eye for a long period of time.

Watching those videos were kind of boring though and I really couldn't watch all the way through. Not engaging at all, like alex3ff said.

**Ryokurin** · 03-27-2011, 10:11 AM

My mind knows the difference between a monitor and a real person. I have trouble walking down the street and running into someone I find attractive, and I believe it's a involuntary reflex. I definitely did have a major problem with it a couple of years ago, even touching was a major issue.

**Artio** · 03-27-2011, 11:16 AM

Extremely boring. Why should I stare a stranger for a minute without a reason?

**zibber** · 03-27-2011, 11:40 AM

I used to stare at people with much wonder. Until my parents taught me not to. Now, I am finally coming to undo this teaching.

(Replace "stare at people with much wonder" with any social "taboo" and you could generate a lot of authentic zibber posts.)

	Originally Posted by Artio To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Extremely boring. Why should I stare a stranger for a minute without a reason?

Not the crux of this thread
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**Artio** · 03-27-2011, 11:56 AM

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Not the crux of this thread To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well, I was ready for conversation before watching the videos, but then I was bored to death.

I learnt to use eye contact in university. I may express interest with it, but most of the times I use it for dominating. It's useful whenever I'm not interested to deal with people any further.

When I'm having a conversation I might avoid eye contact because it distracts me. I guess it's no wonder that most of the times my stare represents distance or domination.

There are some people with whom I enjoy to have an eye contact and those are the rare cases when I can let loose and let my eyes express more.

**Urshulgi** · 03-27-2011, 12:24 PM

I've had to coach myself to maintain eye contact. In the business world especially, being able to maintain eye contact is an assertion of confidence and dominance. In the personal world, if you can't look a girl in the eyes while you're talking to her, how's she supposed to see into your soul?

I find the eyes to be fascinating. There's so many subtle variations, although brown eyes are almost always boring. Green, blue, and amber are awesome.

**Muumeh** · 03-27-2011, 12:33 PM

bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-boring.

In real life, I've noticed I only really look into people's eyes when they're not looking at me. Or if I do, it is very brief moment, as I've learned that me looking someones eyes is.. rather unnerving to them most of the time, and unless I'm trying to dominate or intimidate them, I rather would not want to make them uncomfortable. Sometimes I look bit left from their eyes, somewhere between the corner of their eye and ear.

**Urshulgi** · 03-27-2011, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Muumeh
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bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-boring.

In real life, I've noticed I only really look into people's eyes when they're not looking at me. Or if I do, it is very brief moment, as I've learned that me looking someones eyes is.. rather unnerving to them most of the time, and unless I'm trying to dominate or intimidate them, I rather would not want to make them uncomfortable. Sometimes I look bit left from their eyes, somewhere between the corner of their eye and ear.

One thing I've noticed is that it's people who come from cultures full of liars who are afraid to make eye contact with someone. American/British culture, with it's emphasis on being super polite all of the time (aka lying), produces people who are unnerved by eye contact.

I live in Russia, and the people here aren't afraid of eye contact. Then again, they're a lot more honest most of the time.

**Muumeh** · 03-27-2011, 01:23 PM

Well I'm from Finland, so not so über-polite nation as British etc. (or are we?) I think it's more that we're highly introverted nation so eye contact isn't practiced that much here. Also I'm leaning towards Aspie for a bit (not strongly enough that I'd be diagnosed as one) so that adds to the thing as well.

**n8ey** · 03-27-2011, 01:33 PM

I like making eye contact. Not only for the "INTJ stare", also to try to make sure someone who's acting dodgy is really telling the truth, or when someone is running away at the mouth repeating themselves.

I've had a number of people slowly trail off talking when I fix them with teh eye lazors. It's kinda amusing.

**Kanizsa** · 03-28-2011, 02:23 AM

Eye contact is interesting, I can definitely tell sometimes when someone is sexually interested by the way they look at me, and sometimes I can tell, when they can tell, that I sexually interested. It is as if something nonphysical is connecting.

**Alderamin** · 03-28-2011, 03:54 AM

I loathe eye contact and feel like people who make this a huge point in their interactions are controling and condescending. It can get really bad when I can see out of the corner of my eye that they are still looking at me even when I have stopped looking at them. Getting stared down by a new work acquaintance or mutual social acquaintance is just fantastic too. Makes me feel like a zoo animal.

bobabrowncoat · 03-28-2011, 08:37 AM

Somewhere at sometime I heard or read that women tend to look at others in the eye. Men tend to look away. Both are listening to the other equally. </anecdote>

I look at people in the eye when I want them to go away or to realize I know what I'm talking about. Not surprisingly, I do it most with my boss. Otherwise, I usually continue to talk and listen while working on something else. At times I'm not doing something else, I tend to look them in the mouth. I don't know why.

**SongofSeptember** · 03-28-2011, 10:16 AM

My eyes have a terrible habit of sliding away from the face of whoever I'm talking to, particularly if the conversation is very thought-provoking. If I stare at somebody I always lose track of what I meant to say. I can't really think looking into a person's face. That probably explains my social retardation.

**True Rune** · 03-28-2011, 10:20 AM

I prefer ear contact. >_>

**psynite** · 03-28-2011, 10:31 AM

I find holding eye contact with people to be either an act of intimacy or and act of aggression. I don't like looking people I don't like in the eyes, because it will make them feel like I really care, and people who stare at me blatantly, I get really uncomfortable and then force them to say something by looking really annoyed by it. Holding eye contact with women has a very positive effect, as long as it isn't unblinking and accompanied by a emotionless facial expression.

**alex3ff** · 03-28-2011, 08:35 PM

	Originally Posted by Alderamin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Getting stared down by a new work acquaintance or mutual social acquaintance is just fantastic too. Makes me feel like a zoo animal.

Uhh.. they probably just want to interact with you, and are unsure if you want to interact back/if they should try. Is that really so bad?
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**chaostheory** · 03-28-2011, 09:26 PM

	Originally Posted by Urshulgi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	One thing I've noticed is that it's people who come from cultures full of liars who are afraid to make eye contact with someone. American/British culture, with it's emphasis on being super polite all of the time (aka lying), produces people who are unnerved by eye contact. I live in Russia, and the people here aren't afraid of eye contact. Then again, they're a lot more honest most of the time.

Remember that some people may be kind of shy though. I used to be shy in that aspect until I realized how silly it was not to keep eye contact. I don't mean an "intj stare" either, glancing away every few seconds and looking more at the persons forehead as to not come off creepy. In contrast, as you mentioned, not keeping contact may hint at an ulterior motive; though I usually associate it with a lack of confidence.

03-20-2011, 10:59 AM	#1
BostonIan Member [31%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,242	Japanese Eye Contact Training: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. So, looking at these videos, I can feel the stress in my body unwind, something melt. There is nothing to the videos, just a blank stare, yet I can watch them repeatedly and not get bored. Your reaction, fascinating or boring? Eye contact is one of my peculiarities. In the past, I once held eye-contact with the same unfamiliar young woman every day for two years, prefer it during intimacy, and have called holding eye contact "kissing with your eyes", a functional substitute for when that act is inappropriate. Unwinding it in myself, I consider myself a "watcher" more than an in-the-moment experiencer in life. I tend to fixate on things intensely. Lifestyle, I stress myself, think hard, work hard, walk fast; have needed to find outlets for the stress. Being more solitary, I've found ways of connection suitable to my behavior. "INTJ stare" being a known thing, how prevalent is my eye contact peccadillo in you all? Is it type-particular? What is your experience with eye-contact?
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03-20-2011, 11:01 AM	#2
Zsych Core Member [309%] MBTI: XNTX Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 12,376	This makes me smile the way most people trying to stare me down make me smile. I think the INTJ stare is mental intensity from when you're interested or trying to solve a problem and not actually staring. Added a few more links: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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03-26-2011, 11:43 PM	#3
alex3ff Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 123	Interesting. I watched these videos from start to finish, and I couldn't look her in the eyes for long periods... Not because I was afraid, but because I found her vacant stare not engaging. Without facial movements and interaction, I constantly found myself looking for something more interesting to do/think about/look at. It's not the behavior I would've expected from myself. I've struggled with eye contact since about age 15 when I first started becoming aware of it, namely wondering what the "proper" way to do it was. I used to be really outgoing after highschool + 3 years after, but I realized that I actually didn't make much eye contact with people, always preferring to talk to them like we were in a car driving, instead. So around 20 I made a conscious effort to start making more eye contact in a purposeful manner, b/c I got the feeling that people felt I wasn't interested in what they were saying (who knows maybe it was true). Fast forward after 8 years of integrated eye contact training, and I think my purposeful direct stares intended to show that I am interested freak people out, rather than engage them. I get called creepy once in a while, and I can definitely tell that I scare some people. So anyway, lately I've been trying to undo the eye contact training, because a la some sort of nature vs. nurture argument, I think I am naturally programmed to function better not making it very often. But, interesting videos. The Japanese are a very interesting culture.
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03-27-2011, 12:13 AM	#4
wstim05 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 71	yeah I agree with "alex3ff", although I COULD look at the person from start to finish, i found myself wanting to look away at something more interesting, rather than actually being uncomfortable with it. I have quite a bit of trouble with eye contact, especially when i become aware of it, and i start thinking about it. If i am talking to someone, i just sort of glance up at them to meet their eyes, and then look somewhere else. i feel like if i make eye contact too long it would just be odd, and i find myself feeling like im just staring at them blankly.. Jjust like the above person, i think conversation flows much better whilst im driving a car or something, where direct eye contact is not an option. I think its really weird how some people look at the other person while they are talking, even when the other person isnt looking at them, for eg. they are driving.
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03-27-2011, 12:35 AM	#5
Minerva Core Member [234%] MBTI: ISFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 9,391	Personally the videos are boring. Maybe if you put up a video with a physically attractive guy then I might be more interested? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Seriously, I would still be bored unless it was someone I had romantic feelings for??? I have never gotten "lost in eyes" and I have never been in love before so I don't really know for sure. That said, I think I could get lost in eyes like those of [HIDE="Cillian Murphy"] To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. [/HIDE] I still remember the first time I saw him in a movie: I could barely stop focusing on his eyes. I do find them quite beautiful while others have said that they are too intense. Some of the INTJs I know have brilliant stares, others do not. I have been told that my eyes are penetrative and that it seems as if I can see right through people, and I am not INTJ. I do, however, have large eyes and they are very expressive unless I chose not to show what I am feeling. @alex3ff Making too much eye contact does tend to unnerve people. You don't have to hold eye contact throughout the conversation. Feel free to look away at times, even looking down at your hands, or if you are seated at a table, look down at the table and then look back to the person. In my opinion, once you look back at him/her and are not showing that you are distracted by doodling etc (although I know that one of my INTJ friends do this even when he is listening intently) then this will indicate to the other person that you are indeed listening. @OP: Some examples of my experience with eye contact If it is a one on one conversation: I hold it for a while then I look away for a bit and then hold eye contact for a while again. If I am making a presentation to a room full of people: Make eye contact with many different people. If I am explaining things to a student: I hold eye contact, if the student makes it with me, while he/she is asking questions. If the student looks away (this happens because some of them are shy and once again I know my eyes are not the easiest thing to look at) then I still look towards their eyes to make them know that he/she has my undivided attention. If I don't need to go to the board or to explain a diagram on a page etc then I try to hold eye contact/look at them while explaining.
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03-27-2011, 12:40 AM	#6
orbit79 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 19	I had an abusive ex (who is still in my life, and always will be to some extent as we share a child) who used to, and still does to some extent, stare longingly into my eyes for long periods of time. When things were good it was ok, but when things turned bad it started making me feel really uncomfortable. She still does it and it's as though she's trying to break through to me and show me how much she loves me. I know how much she loves me, but I'm not willing to be abused. When she stares at me like that and tries to force me to look back into her eyes, I feel violated, and like my personal space is being well and truly invaded. In other aspects of my life, particularly in business, I believe that eye contact is generally a positive thing, and I attempt to always shake somebody's hand and look them straight in the eye on meeting.
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03-27-2011, 12:50 AM	#7
Vulkan Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 683	Eye contact is an interesting thing, when I talk with someone I usually look them in the eye, and I often make eye contact with people when I'm not talking. Sometimes it actually distracts me from talking, because I begin to wonder what they're thinking instead of concentrating on putting my relevant thoughts into words.
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03-27-2011, 08:50 AM	#8
Falhalterra New Member [01%] MBTI: ENFJ Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 57	I used to be really afraid of making eye contact when I was younger, and to a degree, I can still get kind of nervous to look someone in the eye for a long period of time. Watching those videos were kind of boring though and I really couldn't watch all the way through. Not engaging at all, like alex3ff said.
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03-27-2011, 10:11 AM	#9
Ryokurin Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 177	My mind knows the difference between a monitor and a real person. I have trouble walking down the street and running into someone I find attractive, and I believe it's a involuntary reflex. I definitely did have a major problem with it a couple of years ago, even touching was a major issue.
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03-27-2011, 11:16 AM	#10
Artio Core Member [515%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 20,632	Extremely boring. Why should I stare a stranger for a minute without a reason?
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03-27-2011, 12:24 PM	#13
Urshulgi Member [32%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 1,318	I've had to coach myself to maintain eye contact. In the business world especially, being able to maintain eye contact is an assertion of confidence and dominance. In the personal world, if you can't look a girl in the eyes while you're talking to her, how's she supposed to see into your soul? I find the eyes to be fascinating. There's so many subtle variations, although brown eyes are almost always boring. Green, blue, and amber are awesome.
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03-27-2011, 12:33 PM	#14
Muumeh Veteran Member [87%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,513	bo-bo-bo-bo-bo-boring. In real life, I've noticed I only really look into people's eyes when they're not looking at me. Or if I do, it is very brief moment, as I've learned that me looking someones eyes is.. rather unnerving to them most of the time, and unless I'm trying to dominate or intimidate them, I rather would not want to make them uncomfortable. Sometimes I look bit left from their eyes, somewhere between the corner of their eye and ear.
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03-27-2011, 01:23 PM	#16
Muumeh Veteran Member [87%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3,513	Well I'm from Finland, so not so über-polite nation as British etc. (or are we?) I think it's more that we're highly introverted nation so eye contact isn't practiced that much here. Also I'm leaning towards Aspie for a bit (not strongly enough that I'd be diagnosed as one) so that adds to the thing as well.
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03-27-2011, 01:33 PM	#17
n8ey Veteran Member [56%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 2,274	I like making eye contact. Not only for the "INTJ stare", also to try to make sure someone who's acting dodgy is really telling the truth, or when someone is running away at the mouth repeating themselves. I've had a number of people slowly trail off talking when I fix them with teh eye lazors. It's kinda amusing.
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03-28-2011, 02:23 AM	#18
Kanizsa Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 262	Eye contact is interesting, I can definitely tell sometimes when someone is sexually interested by the way they look at me, and sometimes I can tell, when they can tell, that I sexually interested. It is as if something nonphysical is connecting.
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03-28-2011, 03:54 AM	#19
Alderamin Member [10%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 420	I loathe eye contact and feel like people who make this a huge point in their interactions are controling and condescending. It can get really bad when I can see out of the corner of my eye that they are still looking at me even when I have stopped looking at them. Getting stared down by a new work acquaintance or mutual social acquaintance is just fantastic too. Makes me feel like a zoo animal.
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03-28-2011, 08:37 AM	#20
bobabrowncoat Core Member [250%] MBTI: IxTJ Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 10,038	Somewhere at sometime I heard or read that women tend to look at others in the eye. Men tend to look away. Both are listening to the other equally. </anecdote> I look at people in the eye when I want them to go away or to realize I know what I'm talking about. Not surprisingly, I do it most with my boss. Otherwise, I usually continue to talk and listen while working on something else. At times I'm not doing something else, I tend to look them in the mouth. I don't know why.
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03-28-2011, 10:16 AM	#21
SongofSeptember Member [14%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 571	My eyes have a terrible habit of sliding away from the face of whoever I'm talking to, particularly if the conversation is very thought-provoking. If I stare at somebody I always lose track of what I meant to say. I can't really think looking into a person's face. That probably explains my social retardation.
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03-28-2011, 10:20 AM	#22
True Rune Core Member [201%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,062	I prefer ear contact. >_>
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03-28-2011, 10:31 AM	#23
psynite New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 33	I find holding eye contact with people to be either an act of intimacy or and act of aggression. I don't like looking people I don't like in the eyes, because it will make them feel like I really care, and people who stare at me blatantly, I get really uncomfortable and then force them to say something by looking really annoyed by it. Holding eye contact with women has a very positive effect, as long as it isn't unblinking and accompanied by a emotionless facial expression.
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