Would you even know you were alive?

**INTJoe** · 05-25-2008, 04:16 PM

A year ago my INTP friend and I began pondering something.

If a human being was born paralyzed, with none of the 5 senses, and was in a coma, and only being kept alive by the assistance of others, would they even know they were alive? Would they be able to think? Would they feel hunger, or inner pain? If so, would they know what it meant? What would their thoughts be? Just dreams? About what? If they had no prior experiences (stimulations of the senses), then what would they have as a basis for dreams or thoughts?

How does this change if the person was normal for 20 years, then fell into this hypothetical state? I'm assuming they would feel hunger, and would only live in their head in the form of dreams and memories.

Thoughts?

**changos** · 05-25-2008, 05:24 PM

Without the 5 senses you are blocked from the world and no learning is achieved. They would be a plant, a vegetable. I think this way the brain would shut down eventually as it is needed to "use it". About somebody falling into this state... mmm that would be hell. Living inside your head is hard, we intjs kinda live like that but we all need interaction and you can't go far on a dark place.

My idea is you would die. Your mental state will deteriorate, perhaps you could fall into some mental illness, go nuts and they die. You'll shrink (thats for sure) and then you die.

**AgentofGaming** · 05-25-2008, 05:33 PM

I would suppose they'd dream about nothing since they don't have anything to dream about. Although I'd also wonder if they could dream about things that we would never be able to perceive.

As for comas though how would they feel the hunger pain? since they wouldn't be conscious of it.

**Homini Lupus** · 05-26-2008, 02:09 AM

Maybe the brain would create by itself something. I'm no expert about the inner workings of our brainbox but I think it generally creates its own stimuli when logged off from reality. If the brain is prepared to get those inputs maybe it can generate fake ones even without interaction. But the question in definitively challenging.

**INTJoe** · 05-26-2008, 08:53 AM

Perhaps the brain would have some experiences from early fetal stages...I don't know.

Would you be able to "feel" yourself breathing, or "hear" your inner heartbeat? Would you know what they were?

**Mozzes** · 05-27-2008, 06:43 AM

	Originally Posted by changos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Without the 5 senses you are blocked from the world and no learning is achieved. They would be a plant, a vegetable.

This is a bit of a misnomer. Plants are quite alive and are capable of interacting with their environments in a myriad of ways. Typical human anthropocentrism...
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This thread actually strikes at the heart of an old debate dating back to the Greeks regarding whether humans are born a "blank slate" (Tabula rasa) or are born with a certain amount of preprogramming. I think science has come to the conclusion that we are born with a certain amount of preprogramming (particularly emotions), but without sensory input I imagine the mental landscape would be quite barren. Of course, we'd likely have no way of communicating with said person so we would have no way of learning about his or her experiences. I suppose we could monitor brain activity and learn something that way.

**Frag** · 05-27-2008, 06:52 AM

	Originally Posted by Frickles To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	we would have no way of learning about his or her experiences.

In a way, that is not much different from how it is normally.

**PRBori** · 05-27-2008, 03:31 PM

It really depends on the type of coma the patient is on.

You can read more here:

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Found this study that indicates that Brain scans of people in vegetable state can think

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Here is a story of a men that wake up from a comma after 3 years and it shows that they do remember..

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So I guess they do have some sort of feeling afterwards and don't always forget everything about their past.

**Mozzes** · 05-27-2008, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by PRBori
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It really depends on the type of coma the patient is on.

You can read more here:

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Found this study that indicates that Brain scans of people in vegetable state can think

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Here is a story of a men that wake up from a comma after 3 years and it shows that they do remember..

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So I guess they do have some sort of feeling afterwards and don't always forget everything about their past.

There's a clear difference though. The thread is concerned with someone who was born comatose and without senses - what they would experience and what they would think (if anything). The experience of somebody who was born normal and became comatose would be very different.

I think that they'd have some sort of mental existence, a permanent dream state perhaps, but it'd be lacking since it appears that we require sensory input to learn.

**Jgib5328** · 05-27-2008, 05:47 PM

They'd be dreaming about things we couldn't understand, because the brain would be forced to create things for itself, so it'd be unique to the person. Most of the images would probably relate to the fetal stages of life, because that's all that the brain would know.

**xtremegeek** · 05-27-2008, 05:52 PM

One of the sadest things I've witnessed in my career. A college physics professor who developed Parkinsons Syndrome. In his 50's, he ended up in a nursing home, unable to speak or write, unable to hold a book to read, unable to walk or swallow. This genius of a man was trapped in his own mind. What torture that must have been for him - to have such a mind, but no ability to communicate what he was thinking. The ideas flowing and no way to share them...that's torture. A good mind with no body to support it, is absolute torture!

05-25-2008, 04:16 PM	#1
INTJoe Veteran Member [75%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,009	A year ago my INTP friend and I began pondering something. If a human being was born paralyzed, with none of the 5 senses, and was in a coma, and only being kept alive by the assistance of others, would they even know they were alive? Would they be able to think? Would they feel hunger, or inner pain? If so, would they know what it meant? What would their thoughts be? Just dreams? About what? If they had no prior experiences (stimulations of the senses), then what would they have as a basis for dreams or thoughts? How does this change if the person was normal for 20 years, then fell into this hypothetical state? I'm assuming they would feel hunger, and would only live in their head in the form of dreams and memories. Thoughts?
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05-25-2008, 05:24 PM	#2
changos Member [48%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,944	Without the 5 senses you are blocked from the world and no learning is achieved. They would be a plant, a vegetable. I think this way the brain would shut down eventually as it is needed to "use it". About somebody falling into this state... mmm that would be hell. Living inside your head is hard, we intjs kinda live like that but we all need interaction and you can't go far on a dark place. My idea is you would die. Your mental state will deteriorate, perhaps you could fall into some mental illness, go nuts and they die. You'll shrink (thats for sure) and then you die.
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05-25-2008, 05:33 PM	#3
AgentofGaming Member [26%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,077	I would suppose they'd dream about nothing since they don't have anything to dream about. Although I'd also wonder if they could dream about things that we would never be able to perceive. As for comas though how would they feel the hunger pain? since they wouldn't be conscious of it.
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05-26-2008, 02:09 AM	#4
Homini Lupus Member [30%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,228	Maybe the brain would create by itself something. I'm no expert about the inner workings of our brainbox but I think it generally creates its own stimuli when logged off from reality. If the brain is prepared to get those inputs maybe it can generate fake ones even without interaction. But the question in definitively challenging.
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05-26-2008, 08:53 AM	#5
INTJoe Veteran Member [75%] MBTI: INTj Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,009	Perhaps the brain would have some experiences from early fetal stages...I don't know. Would you be able to "feel" yourself breathing, or "hear" your inner heartbeat? Would you know what they were?
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05-27-2008, 03:31 PM	#8
PRBori Core Member [108%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 4,355	It really depends on the type of coma the patient is on. You can read more here: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Found this study that indicates that Brain scans of people in vegetable state can think To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Here is a story of a men that wake up from a comma after 3 years and it shows that they do remember.. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. So I guess they do have some sort of feeling afterwards and don't always forget everything about their past.
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05-27-2008, 05:47 PM	#10
Jgib5328 Member [47%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,896	They'd be dreaming about things we couldn't understand, because the brain would be forced to create things for itself, so it'd be unique to the person. Most of the images would probably relate to the fetal stages of life, because that's all that the brain would know.
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05-27-2008, 05:52 PM	#11
xtremegeek Member [12%] MBTI: ISTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 482	One of the sadest things I've witnessed in my career. A college physics professor who developed Parkinsons Syndrome. In his 50's, he ended up in a nursing home, unable to speak or write, unable to hold a book to read, unable to walk or swallow. This genius of a man was trapped in his own mind. What torture that must have been for him - to have such a mind, but no ability to communicate what he was thinking. The ideas flowing and no way to share them...that's torture. A good mind with no body to support it, is absolute torture!
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