[blueranger]

	Originally Posted by Deliberator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The best thing to do is to just talk. Not about relationships, just interesting stuff. Talk and talk and talk and require nothing more from him than scintillating, funny, intellectual conversation. This allows the INTJ to get comfortable with you without feeling like there is any pressure on him.

This has to be the single best piece of advice i would say.

The way to an INTJ's heart is definately through the mind. Just being interested in what we think is enough,we (I) dont expect romantic companions to even agree or disagree.

The things we think about and our perceptions and judgements are really what define us, there is only one way to find that out by asking and listening!

The main thing is dont be afraid to say you dont understand or are overloaded. You will get that judgemental belittling look but we do that to everyone who doesnt understand us.

We look at things from a cost benefit analysis point of view.

If we think that your a good long term bet then we will proceed with caution, if not we will probably stonewall.

I can stress enough how important it is to be a patient listener, us sharing our thoughts with you is our display of likeness and trust.

By opening ourselves up to talk about thoughts we are exposing ourselves to critiscism and ridicule, a show of weekness which you should take as a show of trust.


Trust takes time to build so for the most part its a slow jouney.

[Muse]

Theres this one girl who has told me flat out that she likes me, but when we are around each other she freezes up to the point that i'm pretty much talking to myself and being watched with a smile. Its creepy and unattractive.

[Agent]

Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think one of the worst things about the women's movement, and I am old enough to remember this, is that they made "sexual freedom" a goal. They were saying in the 1970's, men can be dogs, so we should be able to be dogs too. But, men and women ARE different, and I think most women don't really want to be dogs. (Maybe I'm wrong though?) I want to be able to get a job and a mortgage and support myself. I wish the feminists would have focused on more economic opportunities and not sexual opportunities.

I like this line of thinking. If one of the goals of feminism was to free women from the bonds of sexual slavery, then why would the result be hippy communes where the fellows took advantage of multiple women at once? In case you missed it, that's exactly what the men wanted. People are naturally jealous and how the hell do you raise kids in an unstable environment like that?

I'm not a woman, but to me, if you want to free yourself from the bonds on sexual slavery, you become financiallly independent and become MORE, not less selective.

---------- Post added 02-01-2011 at 05:03 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But, aren't INTJ's private and extremely quiet? They like lots of space. They don't like clingy people? I don't like to pry. Sometimes I will ask questions, and even if I do get a response, there is no response to my question. It is such a delicate balance, it is like you have to be a locksmith or lock-picker.

I'm curious what questions you're asking.

---------- Post added 02-01-2011 at 05:06 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Deliberator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, you have to be patient with INTJ's. The best thing to do is to just talk. Not about relationships, just interesting stuff. Talk and talk and talk and require nothing more from him than scintillating, funny, intellectual conversation. This allows the INTJ to get comfortable with you without feeling like there is any pressure on him. Eventually you can let your hints at romantic interest sneak into the conversation. You'll be in pretty good shape if you can get to that point.

Agree

---------- Post added 02-01-2011 at 05:16 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Sparko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	-Approach him -Contact him -let him know you like him -let him know why everything would work out if you were to date -don't expect him to reciprocate -repeat

Maybe to some degree. But constant pursuit has turned me off in the past. I'm interested to know what's not reciprocated. I will return a phone call/email/text with women that engage me.

[Fishism]

I'm probably too late to this topic....BUT...

INTJ's are humans first, so, if biology kicks in and we're attracted to someone, then we're just like anybody else: confused and excited about our feelings yet wanting SOMETHING to happen.

From that point, yes, it's a Godsend if the object of our affection initiates and starts the conversation about mutual interest. If someone confesses interest in us, we're information gathering junkies. We will be the ones asking the questions as we find out if she can "fit" into our life system. "Will she understand? Tolerate? Can I be myself?"

If we're confident in our connection, our compatibility, our common goals and interests. If we're comfortable being ourselves and sensing mutual respect for our differences, then it becomes an absolutely beautiful relationship. INTJ's are only SELECTIVELY quiet and seemingly cold. People simply have to be proven worthy of intimacy. We don't waste time on small talk or contrived emotion or conversation. If it's genuine, it's 100% and congratulations for snagging us. You won't find a more loyal or interesting companion.

[Deliberator]

	Originally Posted by katrin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But did you know the guys were romantically interested in you?

No. Not for awhile after I got to know them. And if they had advanced before I got to know them I DEFINITELY would've turned them away because I had faulty impressions of who they were.

[Vagrant]

	I'm the exact opposite. Every relationship I've been in has been a cold start (if that's a term... if not, can we make it one?). And every time I tried to start a relationship with an up-until-then friend, it never even got off the ground.

Yeah. I can't say I've known a girl for longer than 2 weeks and had a relationship with her. It's always prior to the 2 week mark for it to become romantic.

[Sarcast]

	Originally Posted by Muse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Theres this one girl who has told me flat out that she likes me, but when we are around each other she freezes up to the point that i'm pretty much talking to myself and being watched with a smile. Its creepy and unattractive.

OMG I found so that adorable!(gender:man btw) that would be an ego booster to me so bad. I can see how it would tiring, but how long is she going to be frozen until she melts. If it takes too long to melt, yes unattractive, however is adorable if it's just a growing process.

[Sparko]

Thank you all so much for your contributions to this thread! As usual, you've taught me a great deal on the mysterious INTJ. I'm certain I'll be back with more questions on my quest to figure you out
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Feel free to carry on the discussion though.

[AnotherWorld]

Sparko, your original post was hilarious. I'm not sure if it would work but it was hilarious.

Mating rituals are stupid. Although I am quite emotionally retarded when it comes to love interests, I tend to agree with what Jerdol wrote:
If I like you and enjoy spending time with you and am attracted to you and can see potential in our relationship, you'll be fine.

[Claudus]

1) At first, be very careful about rejecting the INTJ in any way... the slightest negativity will be expanded to infinity.

2) Be blunt, but not demanding when demonstrating interest.
- Good: "You're so amazing, I wish I could find a guy like you for my own!"
- Bad: "You're so amazing, will you be my boyfriend?" (note, this is mostly only bad when he isn't interested, or hasn't thought about it yet)

[jndiii]

Originally Posted by Deliberator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yeah, you have to be patient with INTJ's. The best thing to do is to just talk. Not about relationships, just interesting stuff. Talk and talk and talk and require nothing more from him than scintillating, funny, intellectual conversation. This allows the INTJ to get comfortable with you without feeling like there is any pressure on him. Eventually you can let your hints at romantic interest sneak into the conversation. You'll be in pretty good shape if you can get to that point. The only relationships I've been in started when the guy spent a very long time trying to get to know me STRICTLY as a friend, making absolutely no romantic advances for a matter of months. I imagine you may find that awful, but that's how it is.

I believe this is very accurate, though the "very long time" and "for a matter of months" isn't strictly true.

I've my own success story (real life relationship with Stock on this forum, whom I met on another forum).

The first thing I noticed about her was that she is really smart. She was talking about ideas that I had only briefly considered and was still evaluating, and using those to branch off into even more useful understandings. For a long time, we were just friends on a forum, talking about ideas, with no real emo going on between us at all.

Eventually, a random detail mentioned in a post made it clear we both lived in Austin, TX, so we figured that we should organize some sort of meetup or something for that forum. That meetup never panned out, so after a couple months we ended up just meeting for lunch (she brought along a friend as a kind of chaperone). At that lunch, we just ate and talked and talked and talked.

Later we started meeting at various places, spending hours just talking. And talking. And talking. And talking.

Eventually, we'd part with hug. And later part with a very shy kiss. That sort of thing.

Finally, we scheduled a picnic lunch. At the last minute the night before, she reneged on the lunch date, asking for time alone to sort out confusing thoughts, that sort of thing. Once upon a time, I would have said, "OK," and that would have been the end of it. The end of the relationship and even the friendship. This time, I did something rather different, and said in effect, "Either you're serious about me or not." (It wasn't nearly that terse or harsh, but to reveal the full scope and tone would reveal things I'd rather keep private.) We ended up having that lunch date. We both had a wonderful time.

And we REALLY kissed.

We're still together, now. There have been a few bumps along the way, but because we face our problems with each other in that odd pragmatic/open way that ENFPs and INTJs share, they don't stay problems. I know that I can tell her any concern of mine, and it will be heard as intended. I cannot even begin to express how wonderful it is to be able to do that. Most INTJs around here will tell you that one of our biggest fears, and our most common mistakes, is to say what we really think, how we think it, and having others tell us how horrible we are for saying/thinking such things.

So in short, the pattern is: really get to know each other. Focus on sharing ideas, especially. (ENFPs and INTJs are both intuitive dominant: both are all about ideas.) Feelings do come in, eventually, but INTJs never lead with feelings. Feelings come in after we trust you and are comfortable with you.

It is by making the INTJ feel completely secure with you that you can then make your move (or let him make his move) without fear of something going weird.

[JEP]

If you want to break the ice with a guy you think is INTJ, just be your ENFP-self. Just walk up to him and ask him a question. Smile. Be genuine. The few girls I've thought to be ENFP had an insane ability to immediately make friends with almost anybody. Even when they were frustrated, they had an ability to laugh at themselves and keep a positive attitude. That attitude is very refreshing to an INTJ, who can sometimes take things too seriously.

I spend a lot of time putting my thoughts together and I don't share them easily. If you can get an INTJ talking to you and sharing ideas, then you've won them over and it's going to take a lot for you to grow apart. At the least, you've gained a good friend. I don't think an INTJ would be in a relationship with someone they wouldn't like to have in their close group of friends anyway.

Physically, girls usually only have to take the initiative with me once. I don't read signals well, so taking the initiative once gives me an example to go by, and after that I can read you a bit better.

Clingyness hasn't really been an issue with me. Being flaky and unpredictable is ten times more annoying. There's a friend from high school who I tried to see every time I was in town, but I stopped making the effort because she could never tell me exactly when she'd be available or she wouldn't show up when or where she said she would.

Someone mentioned INTJ stalking earlier. I don't know if this is common for INTJs, but I'm a people watcher. I'm constantly looking at the people around me and trying infer things about their personality and character. So, if you're in the same room with me, there's a good chance I've noticed and tried to make some of judgement based on your posture, clothes, and expressions. So if a girl approached me, my first thought probably wouldn't be "who is this girl?!" it'd more along the lines of "oh, it's that girl I noticed before." -Maybe all INTJs do this and you shouldn't feel quite as awkward opening a conversation with them.

[Sparko]

AnotherWorld, Claudus, Jndiii and JEP, thanks for the feedback. So I've taken all of this input and recalculated to deliver in an authentic ENFP fashion. I will report back with results soon.

[nyahplay]

Originally Posted by Dover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1) Who goes out there and says "I'm going to nab me an INTJ man." I find that a little creepy. Just go out there and interact with people and find someone you enjoy. Is personality type really a deciding factor? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ..that is akin to saying "I'm going to tie down a man who has lots of money and drives a Mercedes...If he doesn't drive a Mercedes, no deal." That's absurd.

I choose to pursue INTJs because both of my parents are INTJs. I've never really had a relationship work out that wasn't with an INTJ, mostly because I have such a high need for personal space, intellectual conversation, and time alone. This is the kind of thing that would be good to find reciprocated in one's mate, in my opinion.

[blitz]

Generally I get along much better with girls that are less intelligent than me. I might be able to sustain a better conversation with an INTJ girl but when it comes to longer relationships, I prefer smiley girls that care about every day stuff. The most enjoyable sex and conversations were with girls that didn't go to universities, were smiling a lot without much reason, and appeared genuine (some girls like that tend to be gold diggers, the ones I liked weren't). Frankly, a lot of the conversations involved me calling them dumbasses and making fun of their inability to drive and stuff like that. I am not sure if this represents all INTJs though, but I am a very strong INTJ and this is my two cents.

I am 25 by the way, and the number of sex partners that I had is in the teens, but i am yet to have a proper, long-term relationship that would last for at least a year. I had a few one night stands, a few relationships that lasted weeks and a few that lasted a few months. One sex partner was a permanent arrangement that lasted for over a year. Not a single "proper" girlfriend though. It is quite scary given that my hair is going gray now and I generally could pass for a 30 year old on a bad day.

[rednet2]

Originally Posted by Claudus To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1) At first, be very careful about rejecting the INTJ in any way... the slightest negativity will be expanded to infinity. 2) Be blunt, but not demanding when demonstrating interest. - Good: "You're so amazing, I wish I could find a guy like you for my own!" - Bad: "You're so amazing, will you be my boyfriend?" (note, this is mostly only bad when he isn't interested, or hasn't thought about it yet)

I would say that even the 'good' example could be interpreted negatively: if she wants a guy like you, that implies that she doesn't want you, which leads you to question why, etc.

	Originally Posted by JEP To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Someone mentioned INTJ stalking earlier. I don't know if this is common for INTJs, but I'm a people watcher. I'm constantly looking at the people around me and trying infer things about their personality and character.

Same here. I think it's mostly an INT thing - the ENTs would probably just approach them directly, and the NFs wouldn't be so clinical about it.

[VRG]

	Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	always, always take the idiot option.

Ik liked this, and it's true
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Though I've never been in a serious relationship so I shouldn't really comment on this thread I wanted to share some thoughts I have on this topic.

First of all, while your statement OP is probably true that with emotionally more developed INTJ's you don't have to follow that pattern, I also do not think that it will hurt your relationship with that INTJ if you do. INTJ's in general don't care for social expectations and gender roles, no matter how old/ emotionall they are. So if you have feelings for an INTJ and you don't want to wait for an INTJ to come to you, there is no harm at all to go to him, and sort of go by that list you made. Hell, he may even like it, since the whole social thing rarely comes natural for any INTJ, so while he may be perfectly capable of doing so, he may still feel relieved he does not have to put himself through all that.

Concerning the getting to know him part: in general I don't like to tell stuff about myself spontaneously to other people, no matter how well I know and like them. This doesn't mean however that I won't tell you (and may even like telling you) if you show genuine interest in me. Of course if I don't like you you won't get an answer or only a very short impersonal statement, but if I didn't like you the chance that I would be talking with you for longer than two minutes is very slim. This I think goes for a lot of INTJ's, so in short: yes INTJ's are very private and generally don't share themselves with others, but if there is any chemistry whatsoever between the two of you he probably won't mind answering more personal questions in order for you two to get to know each other better (or mind asking them, for that matter).

PS the only gender thing I'd really hate to compromise on is who asks who for marriage, I definitely want to be the one asking THE question
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[frapicino]

Emotional binary is a fickle thing, this is my personal message to suitors: 01100101011011010110111101110100011010010110111101 1011100110000101101100
Very good, yes?

[Shadizar]

	Originally Posted by Sparko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For those INTJ men here in happy and successful relationships, (or have been in them), can you please share with us dizzy ladies of how it all went down? Just a brief commentary on the initial courtship phase will do great. Thank You!

I'm generally susceptible to rape. If a woman wants to start a long term relationship with me, it would be in her better interest to just get to the meat and potatoes first. The dickin around with courtship is kind of pointless; I can figure most of what I need to know after the fact, if I'm still intrigued afterwards, the dating game changes after sex anyhow; and even if I'm not interested in promoting the relationship, the woman is free to babble about her success, I'll confirm or deny when questioned later. In short, if you're looking for a friend, fuck off; if you're looking for a fuck toy, get on with it.

[ComtriS]

Courtship, hm...

1) My first serious relationship went down like this:
I noticed her looking at me in class. I asked her what? She made the excuse of looking at my watch. It -seemed- like an excuse to me. I made sure to sit next to her many times after that. I talked to her after class a lot. I eventually asked her to join me to go see a movie with a friend (after about a couple months). Before the movie, she didn't have a jacket and it was kinda cold out, so I asked her "aren't you cold?" she said no. In the theater, in the middle of the film, she turned to me and said that she's cold. I put my arm around her. After that, things pretty naturally grew into a relationship.

2) Second serious relationship:
I met her, and I commented on the way she dressed. I also found her attractive. The next day, I walked with her and talked for a long time. That led to us getting tea/lunch together, and talking more. I found out she was interested in many of the same things I'm interested in. That got me curious about her. Thereafter, I made sure to put us into a situation where we'd spend more time together. Then finally (after a couple days), when I felt the time was right, I grabbed her hand. Relationship fell into place after that.

3) Hopefully, my next serious relationship
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We're neighbors. I met her by happenstance. I was down by the pool reading a book. She came by with her friend, and I hardly noticed until she said "hi". I talked with them for a little bit, then left (I wasn't even thinking about her as a possibility yet -- I don't know why!). I saw her down there again later, so I went down because I wanted some conversation. I started to get interested in her. I then went down there 3-4 more times and we talked more. The last time she definitely started acting a LOT more interested. Body language, asking me lots of personal questions, complimenting me, etc. I then asked her out to lunch and we exchanged numbers. If she didn't show me any interest, I may not have asked her out (I still wish she showed me more!). Now, I'm waiting anxiously/impatiently to go out to lunch with her
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---------- Post added 06-05-2011 at 01:46 AM ----------

My best advice depends on the INTJ. I would say with a less mature / younger INTJ, you should just say "I like you. Will you go out with me?" With a more mature / older INTJ (at least college age), you should just flirt with him more and more until he gets the hint and asks you out or tells you to stop flirting with him. If he hasn't asked you out or told you to stop, you're not flirting hard enough.

[AnaK]

Originally Posted by Dover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1) Who goes out there and says "I'm going to nab me an INTJ man." I find that a little creepy. Just go out there and interact with people and find someone you enjoy. Is personality type really a deciding factor? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ..that is akin to saying "I'm going to tie down a man who has lots of money and drives a Mercedes...If he doesn't drive a Mercedes, no deal." That's absurd. 2) If they give you a shitty "hint" that they don't like you...screw them! Moody little games and being hot and cold get old and are childish. C'mon...grow up. That's right you do all that work...hopefully he will reciprocate. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Starting relationships, with an INTJ or not, is a two way road. That means both parties do "work," not one slaving for the other's affection. If you approach and he responds with fondness...great!!! If you approach and he shuns you don't degrade yourself by acting like a circus animal jumping through hoops for attention.

^^ THIS!!! This woman knows what she is talking about!! I haven't seen her post in a while?

[Tahini]

Well, here's how it worked for me ten years ago with my, later to become, ENFP wife of six years, until she decided she didn't really like my INTJ traits any longer and left me:

- Have a chat
- Go for sushi (that's two hours later)
- Visit, pretending to need help with something academic
- Get help with that something academic and go home
- Visit again under the same pretense, but this time just kiss him right there and then
- Message understood, INTJ will go along and will be loyal.

Now, quite truthfully, this could easily have been shortened significantly to:

- Kiss him right there and then
- Message understood, INTJ will go along and will be loyal.

It's so simple, really. Girl digs guy; kiss; done deal. INTJs are efficient and direct, they will appreciate this approach. I'm not kidding.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	^^ THIS!!! This woman knows what she is talking about!! I haven't seen her post in a while?

If getting a relationship with someone is proving to be so difficult for you, maybe you should consider trying to let it go. I'm sure there are at least ten thousand men within a five-mile radius of you who'd be much easier to start a relationship with. There might even be one in that batch who's a pretty decent guy, himself.

	Originally Posted by Tahini To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's so simple, really. Girl digs guy; kiss; done deal. INTJs are efficient and direct, they will appreciate this approach. I'm not kidding.

I wouldn't know what to make of an ambush kiss. It could maybe be an ice-breaker to get the conversation going, but in itself, it doesn't tell me much. I might also ruin the moment by asking things like "What was that for" or "Why did you do that," which I think might make a certain type of woman think that I didn't enjoy the act itself-- which wouldn't be true. It's the confusion that I'd be not enjoying, and such confusion would probably trump any other feelings I was experiencing in that moment.

Words speak louder than actions. For me, there's no substitute for a clear, verbal explanation of what you want.

[Velocitii]

I dunno what type this girl I'm about to mention is but she is for sure a E.
During one of our early encounters, she would just ask questions about my thoughts on different subject matters, even serious ones like politics, gay rights, etc. It was refreshing to be able to have an intellectual debate/conversation with someone. The conversation went on for three hours. Rapport was built, and in the middle of talking, she stops, looks at me, and says something about my hair being soft and goes and runs her fingers through it. I still have no idea what happened, but I do know it brought a smile to my face. Albeit a somewhat awkward resistant smile. I can tell you that normally I would've snapped, I don't know how she did it.

It probably helped that I found her attractive.

[UnrulyR3d]

Originally Posted by jerdol To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

INTJs don't really give a crap about society's stupid mating rituals. I don't care who initiates, who's "in pursuit," etc. If I like you and enjoy spending time with you and am attracted to you and can see potential in our relationship, you'll be fine. If you're an E dealing with an undeveloped I, it makes sense for you to initiate. Disclaimer: I'm not actually qualified to respond to this thread, as my INTP girlfriend broke up with me a week and a half ago.

Sorry to hear it.