[Aronnax]

I agree with Sagalore, it sounds like he decided a romantic relationship with you isn't going to happen so he reduced his emotional investment.

[ricearoni]

So basically, there are two things that I can do:

1. Give him space and see what he'll do in response, which is pretty much what I've been doing for the past few days. I like the idea of doing this because it keeps things vague, friendly and the hope for something more isn't totally destroyed.

2. Ask him about "us" and let him know that I'd move closer to him. I like the idea of doing this since it'll quickly clarify things, but I think that if it were me, I'd feel extremely pressured by someone doing this. If they moved and the relationship didn't work out, I'd feel somewhat guilty. Also, it seems way too soon to bring something like this up. Yes, I've got years of history with him, but for the last 2 years we weren't speaking to each other. So it feels like we're starting all over again.

I sort of wish I could attach a poll to this.

[Lyra]

Follow your instincts Rice, its usually the right choice. Giving him space is good but let him know from time youre still around. If you still hear nothing then that wont look quite as good
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[ricearoni]

So I talked to him for a little bit. I said hi first (yes, sometimes I suck at following advice) I figured it'd be ok since it's been almost a week since we last talked. He was rather excited and talked a lot about some stuff that was going on with him and conversation seemed normal, but when he asked me how I was doing, he seemed distracted and took longer to answer.

So yup, it's clear to me that he's withdrawing and that this weirdness isn't school or life related. I suppose I could ask him about "us", but my gut says that's a really bad idea, it seems he's already thought months ahead of me on that subject.

Meh. I kind of feel like Captain Wentworth in Persuasion, which is a bummer because I've always thought that Anne should've been the one chasing after him considering all that garbage she put him through.

[Lyra]

Aww Rice I'm sorry your gut is giving you negative feedback. Of course, there's a slim chance something distracted his attention and the timing in the convo was coincidental, but there's no way of knowing unless you asked and if it doesn't feel right, don't do it.

If it were me I'd continue to log into messenger from time to time as usual but don't initiate contact, let him come to you. If he contacts you and the convo has the same pattern as the last one then its unlikely a coincidence
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I'm rooting for ya hon, I know how unsettling it is when you just don't *know* one way or the other what they're thinking. At least the 2 of you shared a lovely day together, no consolation I know
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[aristos achaion]

	Originally Posted by dogwoodlover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Back off. If he is withdrawing, you pushing for contact will only exacerbate it, and if he's not withdrawing, then you backing off will bring him back to initiating things.

From my experience with INTJs, this is unfortunately probably the best plan. We want to draw the other person closer when there's a problem, but that's really not the way INTJs roll...of course, that could lead to you getting hurt and starting to withdraw, since we do that too.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by aristos achaion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	From my experience with INTJs, this is unfortunately probably the best plan. We want to draw the other person closer when there's a problem, but that's really not the way INTJs roll...of course, that could lead to you getting hurt and starting to withdraw, since we do that too.

You're so spot on about wanting to draw the other person closer. It's funny, I remember in my last serious relationship there was a problem and I kept asking the guy what was wrong until he finally told me. We then resolved things and continued to date for 2 years. I've had similar results with other friends too. But if I were to do that with this particular INTJ, I get nothing.

So yup. I've been keeping my distance and I think I'm doing alright with it. I think the only thing driving me nuts is that all this amusing stuff has been happening lately and I want to share them with him, but nope. I've got to keep my distance. How lame.

[AnaK]

	Originally Posted by ricearoni To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the only thing driving me nuts is that all this amusing stuff has been happening lately and I want to share them with him, but nope. I've got to keep my distance. How lame.

It is lame. What is the point of having a relationship with someone you can't share anything with?

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by AnaK To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It is lame. What is the point of having a relationship with someone you can't share anything with?

I think it's more like...at the moment I can't share stuff when I want to and not that I can't share anything with him.

[FreeFrag]

Have you actually expressed your openness to a romantic relationship? (Sorry if you said so, I didn't get much time to read it all)

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by FreeFrag To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Have you actually expressed your openness to a romantic relationship? (Sorry if you said so, I didn't get much time to read it all)

This time around, no. Not directly. But I think my feelings were pretty clear...I mean, I passed on Disney to spend a day with him, wore a dress, wore make up, said that I'd be open to moving and sent him a thank you note that said that I'd like to meet up again. I may have been a little overeager to leave, but then that's what the ty note was for.

[Myrna]

Well, I do test INTJ (although I list myself as INTx because there is significant P component), and I can say that when there is a problem with my mate, or with anyone, I don't withdraw because I want to get the problem solved and off my plate. I may withdraw when things are going well and some project has my attention, but if there is a personal problem, I want to deal with it on the spot. So I wouldn't say that this withdrawing business is an INTJ thing. If I were not invested in the relationship with the person, yes I would withdraw because taking care of the problem is not a priority.

[ricearoni]

Interesting. Maybe it's a guy thing then?

[Myrna]

I don't mean to sound hurtful, but I think it is a not-caring-enough thing.

[intjdude]

You probably just drain him emotionally... that's my guess... dude, you were eager to leave and sent him a 'thank you note'?... haha... maybe to an INFJ that says 'i care' but to an INTJ i think that spells 'what the hell?'

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You probably just drain him emotionally... that's my guess... dude, you were eager to leave and sent him a 'thank you note'?... haha... maybe to an INFJ that says 'i care' but to an INTJ i think that spells 'what the hell?'

Well...it was a really long day. We met up at 9am and I was supposed to meet up with my group at 4pm, but they didn't show up until almost 9pm (long story). So by the time they arrived, we were both exhausted. Because I was tired and so embarrassed for inconveniencing him like that, I sort of rushed out of there. Yeah, it was stupid and I should've just slowed down and said good bye properly. But I wasn't thinking straight. That's why I wrote to him the next day.

[FreeFrag]

	Originally Posted by ricearoni To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This time around, no. Not directly. But I think my feelings were pretty clear...I mean, I passed on Disney to spend a day with him, wore a dress, wore make up, said that I'd be open to moving and sent him a thank you note that said that I'd like to meet up again. I may have been a little overeager to leave, but then that's what the ty note was for.

Even then he may not have picked that up; I'd be that dense for sure (which may be more of a past experience thing, as women have done that when hanging out with me while insisting "it's not a date"). You should express it clearly and bluntly. It could be he feels demotivated because you haven't said it clearly, thus you could seem disinterested. Or I could be dead wrong.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by FreeFrag To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Even then he may not have picked that up; I'd be that dense for sure (which may be more of a past experience thing, as women have done that when hanging out with me while insisting "it's not a date"). You should express it clearly and bluntly. It could be he feels demotivated because you haven't said it clearly, thus you could seem disinterested. Or I could be dead wrong.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that's a possibility. When we first met, he said he had no clue I was interested in him and that I'm hard to read. I probably confused him too, when I left the last time I saw him and the note I sent didn't really explain why I was acting weird...

Still, I don't know if the clearly and bluntly thing is a good idea right now. I've done that before in the past and it's always had mixed results.

[HIDE="the mixed results blah blah blah"]
- The first time I did it, he said I think we should be friends and then a year later he asked me how I felt and then said that when I first told him how I felt, he felt the same way but sabotaged things because he was bothered by the distance.

- The second time he said we should just stay friends, but then kept flirting with me all the time.

- The last time I did it, he said let's see what happens, but then changed his mind a few months later. I then stopped talking to him because well, I didn't want to be just a friend.

So yeah. I'm not really in a rush to go through that all over again. He knows how I felt before. He could be confused about how I feel now, but I'm hoping that if he is, he'll try to clarify things without me having to make myself all vulnerable again.
[/HIDE]

I'll have to see how our next conversation goes.

[intjdude]

I think the answer to your question lies in whether you've always been long distance relative to him (during the romantic interest)? He seems interested but goes in and out for some reason. If the answer is 'yes' to being long distance through all those ups and downs, then you have your answer as to why he's withdrawing (and yes he's withdrawing cause he gave up)...

---------- Post added 02-07-2011 at 12:27 PM ----------

PS. Just ask him directly if it's the long distance that actually bothers him and the root of the problem.

[ricearoni]

Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think the answer to your question lies in whether you've always been long distance relative to him (during the romantic interest)? He seems interested but goes in and out for some reason. If the answer is 'yes' to being long distance through all those ups and downs, then you have your answer as to why he's withdrawing (and yes he's withdrawing cause he gave up)... ---------- Post added 02-07-2011 at 12:27 PM ---------- PS. Just ask him directly if it's the long distance that actually bothers him and the root of the problem.

Yup, it's always been long distance. Though now it's a 5 hour drive vs a 7 hour flight.

So I talked to him very briefly today and mentioned that things seemed kind of off. I asked if I had offended him or if he was mad or something. I explained that I felt badly for being so excited to leave and that I acted that way because I was so embarrassed by what had happened. He said not to worry about it, it was fine and that I'm overthinking things. That before we had more time to talk because it was the beginning of the semester and now he's just really busy.

I didn't ask him about the distance or about us though. It's been a stressful week and I'm way too high-strung to have that conversation.

[intjdude]

	Originally Posted by ricearoni To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I didn't ask him about the distance or about us though. It's been a stressful week and I'm way too high-strung to have that conversation.

Did I forget to mention how annoying it is to an INTJ when someone deliberately doesn't solve the problem?

It seems to be one of those (more serious) NF vs NT differences.

[OwnyTony]

I personally think long distances are rigged to fail. I hate pressure and for someone to move, then i feel "obligated" to start a relationship and I dont want to take responsibility for that. It has to....naturally fall in place.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by intjdude To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Did I forget to mention how annoying it is to an INTJ when someone deliberately doesn't solve the problem? It seems to be one of those (more serious) NF vs NT differences.

I don't think this is an NF vs NT thing. I would love to resolve the situation and in the past I would've (and have) confronted him about this quickly, but this is exactly why I haven't asked him where we stand:

	Originally Posted by OwnyTony To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I hate pressure and for someone to move, then i feel "obligated" to start a relationship and I dont want to take responsibility for that.

I think this may have been what caused him to change his mind the last time we talked about an "us". It didn't matter that I liked him and was willing to move. I think the idea of seeing where things could go excited him for awhile, but then when it got closer to being a reality, he freaked. Of course, I could just be flattering myself and he's just not that interested in me.

Anyway, it just seems like a lose lose situation. If he likes me, it'll just add pressure to the situation and make it awkward. If he isn't interested, I make an ass of myself...again.

[CortexBomb]

Obviously this doesn't hold true for all INTJs, but our planning nature can lead us to think about any relationship in a long term sense. Ergo, any initial attempt to form a relationship can end up being put through a life partner filter, and if a potential hitch (and location is an obvious huge one) is present, then it could cause a shutdown. i.e.: why emotionally invest in this if there doesn't seem to be a good way to make it work in the long term?

I'm absolutely like this, and though I recognize that it's a detriment, it can at least be something that I'm up front about with people who are interested. Long distance stuff? I've done it, and it's a complete mess. Unless there is a very immediate path to resolving that issue (i.e.: direct time-line, this and this and this will happen and it will be taken care of) then I just don't see that as being a good option. Again, grain of salt, just my limited experience, but I can understand the type of behaviour that you're describing because it's the kind of thing I would do in that scenario.

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by CortexBomb To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Unless there is a very immediate path to resolving that issue (i.e.: direct time-line, this and this and this will happen and it will be taken care of) then I just don't see that as being a good option.

Yeah, a direct time-line is something I've been awful at providing and it's something I still can't provide.

	Again, grain of salt, just my limited experience, but I can understand the type of behaviour that you're describing because it's the kind of thing I would do in that scenario.

Do you have any suggestions for making things less weird? I miss our conversations.