[katrin]

If you really want to talk to him about it, maybe call him on the phone or at least IM. Email sucks for this sort of thing.

[Lyra]

Thanks to everyone for their valuable feedback. It's one of those "darned if you do, darned if you dont" scenarios. One of my issues is that when confronted with a major decision, especially matters of the heart, my brain calculates all the possible outcomes and follows all of them through to their many conclusions. Since its entirely based on speculation drawn from past experience I have no conclusive evidence on which to help finalize my decision, I have to rely on instinct, what *feels* right. This is made worse by the fact that what one feels can vary wildly over the course of even a short space of time making it harder to know if a decision is right, or just right now.

*sighs*

Anyway, I sent it, I also sent cookies which will arrive in a few days to try and bridge the gap should this epic fail on me. I decided to send the mail because I felt I'd rather be rejected based on all the facts than based on one mail poorly thought out. If I didn't send it I'd always wonder "what if" and I like to avoid those situations where possible.

So now I sit and wait, again, to see if I will be avoided, rejected or accepted. This is torture, why do we do it? I guess sometimes you have to take a leap of faith, regardless of the cost, and hope that maybe, just maybe, they'll leap with you.

[amyleanne]

I think you did the right thing by sending both e-mails. It would be a disservice to both of you to continue the "friendship" with those feelings bottled up, so even it doesn't turn out the way you want you shouldn't have any regrets. Communication is communication no matter the medium, and I personally like to receive long-winded messages with lots of thought behind them AND I like to take several days to process and come up with a suitable response. Don't allow him to ignore what you've said. The relationship isn't one-sided and you deserve to be heard and acknowledged.

Haha, I'm actually in suspense over this. Let us know what happens!

[Lyra]

Thanks for the reassurance Amy, it's appreciated.

In my second email, where I clarified what I expected or did not expect of him, and what I wanted etc I did mention that this couldn't be ignored and whilst I was happy to give him time and space to figure it out I'd be raising the issue with him if I don't hear over an extended period of time. Not sure that's going to go down too well, but then again, I don't think either email will have, regardless of how he feels as it's forced him to confront the situation rather than hiding from it.

The problem I have is that although I know and love my INTJ when it comes to matters of the heart he is a closed book. He absolutely does not give anything away and just doesn't communicate feelings of any sort at all. It could be that he is actually happy that I feel this way and I would never know it. On the other hand, and what I am feeling is most likely given a total lack of any verbal affirmation to the contrary, ever, is that although he knew I felt this way, the fact I never laid it out so black and white before meant he could avoid it, now he can't. My worry is that the first email will have annoyed him, the second may well push him over the edge... or maybe he spam filtered me, I wouldn't put it past him lol

All I can do is sit and wait and try not to drive myself insane worrying about the worst, which I am wont to do. It wouldn't be quite so bad but he is my best friend, my confidente, my brain buddy, everything. There isn't anyone else I connect with like him on almost every level and I admit wholeheartedly that I am terrified of losing him. But, as you said, you can't continue with "friendship" when one of you is hiding their true feelings. Which reminds me of this
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[Muse]

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm sorry, but he's just a pent up weirdo. There is no excuse for that kind of repressed behavior.

Pretty much agree. I'm often surprised at how emotionally undeveloped some INTJ's can be.

@ OP, i'm reluctant to say it to you but here it goes. Prepare for a no; because his every move sounds like something i would have done to a chick i wasn't into when i was in middle or high school. There were times i would even hit on the chick that told me her friend liked me(at the same time), just to make it clear that i'm not interested. Its screwed up, but when i was young and immature thats how i did it sometimes.

Sending the cookies sounds nice. Everything you do sounds really nice. I'm betting he feels at least a bit bad about not being able to give you what you want, when you seem to give so much.

[Lyra]

Its ok Muse, I hear ya, and to be honest from the start I was always expecting a no, I just wont ever be *prepared* for it, I love him too much
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In a way it might be a good thing if the second email irks him because it may make him actually say NO rather than just pretending like nothing has happened. Im not actually sure at this point which is the preferred option though. It just upsets me because we had been chatting as normal, pre revelation, the last few days, and now I've gone and emailed again and can't help wondering "is it worth it?"... but of course, it is, I have to know one way or the other.

*sigh*

[themuzicman]

TO answer the question in the topic title, the INTJ will withdraw and process. We don't do it very well, so we alternate between process and escape.

As to your situation, you need to suck it up and say it to him. INTJs really don't like it when people are indirect. Yeah, you're putting yourself out there, but that's part of life. You gotta do it.

You also might want to learn a bit about the NT-NF death spiral.

[Lyra]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You also might want to learn a bit about the NT-NF death spiral.

Uh-oh, that definitely sounds bad... Do I really want to know?

btw, wise words in your post, thank you
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---------- Post added 01-26-2011 at 01:41 PM ----------

Update. Just received a quick messenger text from work. Been told he's waiting to the weekend to reply as he's busy but that sending the email was fine (whatever *fine* means... grr, and he gets on at ME for being ambiguous! lol). Then it was right down to business as usual so um... not really any the wiser, but at least it's not as bad as it could potentially be *continues to retain hope for the time being and knows the cookies will arrive before the weekend* :D

[ricearoni]

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Its ok Muse, I hear ya, and to be honest from the start I was always expecting a no, I just wont ever be *prepared* for it, I love him too much

I've noticed that usually when someone gets a confession of love thrown at them unexpectedly...they tend to be taken aback and the default response is, I don't feel the same way (even if they really did like you).

Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Update. Just received a quick messenger text from work. Been told he's waiting to the weekend to reply as he's busy but that sending the email was fine (whatever *fine* means... grr, and he gets on at ME for being ambiguous! lol). Then it was right down to business as usual so um... not really any the wiser, but at least it's not as bad as it could potentially be *continues to retain hope for the time being and knows the cookies will arrive before the weekend* :D

Sounds like he's buying time.

[Lyra]

	Originally Posted by ricearoni To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I've noticed that usually when someone gets a confession of love thrown at them unexpectedly...they tend to be taken aback and the default response is, I don't feel the same way (even if they really did like you).

Really? Interesting. That wouldn't be my response. For instance, if this INTJ had declared his feelings for me first I would have instantly reciprocated, I don't see any reason to deny how you feel especially if the other feels the same, that makes no sense at all, to me at least!

[dogwoodlover]

Give him space. Don't bring it up again, at least not for a while. He probably has similar feelings, but the difference is, many INTJs wont act on them, or tend to mistrust them. Give him time to think about it and let him mull the situation over and decide what he's feeling.

Personally, I tend to be much more in-touch with Fi, so I don't relate to this aspect of "INTJness" as much. Though, I would probably be very cautious about getting roped in to feeling things for someone who lives in another country and is LD. So I can see why he's avoiding it. When INTJs get bitten, which is rare, it's usually pretty hard...

EDIT:

Also, do not push the issue. Let it go. Forget him for now and try to keep living your life. If you push the issue and insist that he answers your questions, you're probably going to send him running for the hills. I know I would (given the situation).

It wouldn't hurt to have a little game either--pretend you've forgotten about him and let him come to you, instead of chasing him around. That impending sense of lost opportunity will definitely press him to make a decision either way.

[Lyra]

Oh I have already given him space, you've no idea how hard it was for me yesterday to even send that second email, I really didn't want to raise the subject again but knowing his need for disambiguation and clarity I felt I had no choice. I've also already reassured him I won't be raising the subject unless a long period of time goes by and I haven't heard anything so that he feels no pressure and take the time he needs.

He said he will contact me this weekend about my mail and I have no reason to doubt that unless something comes up locally. He is not usually one for shirking when he has given a commitment like that. I absolutely understand re the distance, and it's one of the points I raised with him so he was clear where I stood on the matter.

All I can do is let him decide what feels right for him. If it turns out that he has feelings but won't act on them, there's not much I can do about that is there? I couldn't bear to force myself on any man, it'd be simply humiliating, so I'd have to just accept it and do my best to move on.

---------- Post added 01-26-2011 at 05:19 PM ----------

Originally Posted by dogwoodlover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Also, do not push the issue. Let it go. Forget him for now and try to keep living your life. If you push the issue and insist that he answers your questions, you're probably going to send him running for the hills. I know I would (given the situation). It wouldn't hurt to have a little game either--pretend you've forgotten about him and let him come to you, instead of chasing him around. That impending sense of lost opportunity will definitely press him to make a decision either way.

It's already done, I have no intention of pushing for answers in this situation, I know it'd just push him away.

I've already started creating space, such as only chatting him during the day and letting him have his nights free without me (usually we'd spend those together too) since the email. I have no way of knowing however whether he enjoys me not being around or actually misses me! haha Oh well, it can't do any harm at least
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[catzmeow]

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	However, I have fallen in love with a very typical INTJ man. He is an online friend of 3 years and we've spent every day together hanging out talking, laughing, working (he's teaching me a new skill) and gaming.

Have you ever met this man in real life? If not, you have no idea if you love him or not. You've gotten emotionally attached, but you're extrapolating huge pieces of him because you don't know him in real life. In short, you're in love with a fantasy.

[Silence]

On one hand, bless your heart for taking the lead in a tough situation.

On the other hand, I have to say that I'm a bit concerned because what you have is a text-based 'relationship'. You've never even spoken with this person.

Sure, he's been teaching you a new skillset. Are you sure he is who he says he is? Have you googled and tried to find out where he works? Does he run his own business, that he can guarantee you a job with him? Is this in writing? And what if you meet him and your first impression is that you can't stand him?

I'm not trying to be alarmist, or tear down your hope...but there have been so many cases of someone claiming to be somebody they are not. Have you tried Skype, to assure yourself that this is a male, and not some brilliant punk kid in his/her parent's basement? Or a felon?

Why have you never spoken on the phone?

I would want some assurances before I paid for an overseas plane ticket, setting myself for a job that may not come through. At the very least, set up a backup plan so that should this person turn out to be someone other than what you're expecting, you can move forward and not waste your trip.

The more I think about this, the more concerned I become. Had I been on the his end of receiving your email, I would have replied with some sort of acknowledgement, even if it was, "I need to think. We'll talk in four days. I'm not angry."

[Lyra]

Catz - I'm not even going to attempt to explain how I know its real love. With out *evidence* to present you with itd be a futile exercise. Suffice it to say I am confident enough in my own judgement to know whether I'm crushing or not.

Silence - I have been talking to this man, text and voice, almost every day for 3 years. I know where he works, lives and I know his friends and family. I understand your concerns but please, I'm a grown woman with more than 2 braincells, please give me some credit for making sure he is who he claims to be before getting so involved.

EDIT: sorry that came over abruptly, it wasn't intended. just frustrating to have people think you're completely clueless, dont know your own mind and lack basic common sense. I do appreciate the concern though.

[Silence]

Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Silence - I have been talking to this man, text and voice, almost every day for 3 years. I know where he works, lives and I know his friends and family. I understand your concerns but please, I'm a grown woman with more than 2 braincells, please give me some credit for making sure he is who he claims to be before getting so involved. EDIT: sorry that came over abruptly, it wasn't intended. just frustrating to have people think you're completely clueless, dont know your own mind and lack basic common sense. I do appreciate the concern though.

I misunderstood the part where you've spoken with him. My error.

I never intended to imply that you're clueless or brainless or lack common sense. There are many people that trust immediately and are taken advantage of, to the detriment of their heart and their pocketbook. I get a lot of cases in which "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" checks could have saved a lot of grief in the long run. This is not an uncommon thing to happen to people. I was simply trying to warn you.

Sorry to have gotten you frustrated. Wasn't intentional, and it won't happen again.

[cannotseethe]

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Catz - I'm not even going to attempt to explain how I know its real love. With out *evidence* to present you with itd be a futile exercise. Suffice it to say I am confident enough in my own judgement to know whether I'm crushing or not.

You didn't answer the question. You've never met this man in person? I think that's relevant as online interaction, no matter how often and through what media, cannot tell you what you will experience when you meet. You see only hints and clues, outlines of a person, as if you're looking through a translucent shower door.

You don't know how they smell. You don't know the texture of their hair and skin, or what it's like to hold their hand (or even if they'd be willing to hold hands with you). And on and on and on. However well you know yourself and can tell crush from love, the point remains that if you have not met this man then you cannot have fallen in love with him, only with the sketch of him you're able to see through the internet.

[CMIS09]

I have to agree with pretty much everybody else. You really got to meet this guy in person. I met a girl online, started chatting...a lot, for about six months. I thought she was perfect for me. We had similar beliefs on basically everything, she seemed smart, and she was incredibly attractive.

We finally started meeting in person on a regular basis. She turned out to be the embodiment of everything I hate in people
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[Asocialkat]

Hrmm...I'd disagree. I think you can fall in love when you haven't met someone yet. I have an online friend that has been "online" dating someone for a few months. Within about six weeks of Skype chats, voice, and video session, they finally admitted they were in love with each other. A few months into their relationship, they finally were able to meet in person. They spent a really awesome 72 hours together (it was supposed to be 48, but they couldn't bear to part so soon). The pair had already been making plans to move in together April, but after they met in real life, they couldn't bear to wait that long. They'll be moving in together in a couple of weeks time. One of them is moving from Phoenix to Portland! That's a big move.

I think it's a very cute love story. They are very in love and very happy.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Really? Interesting. That wouldn't be my response. For instance, if this INTJ had declared his feelings for me first I would have instantly reciprocated, I don't see any reason to deny how you feel especially if the other feels the same, that makes no sense at all, to me at least!

I half-agree with you. Fleeing the scene (whether physically, or emotionally) when someone states their interest in you seems to me like a really weird thing to do. I've had a few people tell me that they liked me. I always doubt their words and feelings, rather than my own. Regardless of how I actually state my response, my mental reaction has always been something like, "What? Why? I wasn't trying to get anyone to like me. What about me is appealing to this person?"

Maybe on some level, I disliked the lack of control that I felt when someone expressed an interest in me because I didn't understand why she liked me. ...Yeah, you heard me: telling me you like me is a way of taking control away from me. Might be something worth thinking about in this situation of yours. (Or maybe it's not; what do I know?)

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Catz - I'm not even going to attempt to explain how I know its real love. With out *evidence* to present you with itd be a futile exercise. Suffice it to say I am confident enough in my own judgement to know whether I'm crushing or not.

As long as you can explain it to yourself and to him. That's what's important. But I think the question that is still unaddressed is whether or not he is confident in your judgment (at least as far as we know, not having access to the private details of the situation). If I were in his position, that's what would be on my mind.

Or maybe I'm just weird.

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by Silence To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I misunderstood the part where you've spoken with him. My error. I never intended to imply that you're clueless or brainless or lack common sense. There are many people that trust immediately and are taken advantage of, to the detriment of their heart and their pocketbook. I get a lot of cases in which "boyfriend" or "girlfriend" checks could have saved a lot of grief in the long run. This is not an uncommon thing to happen to people. I was simply trying to warn you. Sorry to have gotten you frustrated. Wasn't intentional, and it won't happen again.

Sorry Silence, that post wasn't aimed at you it was a general "argh". I know how you guys think to a point, I know you process using logic and reason and evidence, but there's more than that coming into play here, a feeling, an instinct, a *knowing*. I am sure of myself, the only thing I am unsure of is how my INTJ feels, thus the op.

And to the others all I can say really is just because you cannot comprehend how something *could* be possible does not mean that it is, in fact, *impossible*.

Sorry, am on my phone just now, can't do lengthy replies.

[Favorite Pills]

I'm of two minds regarding the issue of having to meet someone in person before deciding one is in love.

I can attest that it's more than possible to form deep emotional bonds online. I have several friends both online and offline, and some of my best friends are people I haven't even met face-to-face. They understand me better than a lot of the people I meet and befriend in my town. I met one of them in person a couple of months ago, and we got along just as wonderfully as we did in forums.

For something as complicated as romantic relationships, however, I think it's fine to crush on someone you only know online, but it's tough to decide if it's real love without having met the person face-to-face. You can't fake chemistry. Also, though I've been lucky in the friends I've made online, there's a possibility that one's personality online is much different than how he or she would act in person.

I'm in love with somebody I met on Craigslist. We exchanged several long, meaningful emails before meeting in person after a week. I knew before I met him that I was crushing pretty hard, but before our first date, I still braced myself for the possibilities ("what if he's actually a dickwad?", "what if he sees me and decides he's not that into me?", "what if there's just no chemistry?"). Luckily, we clicked, and the rest is history. But the guy I dated before him was also someone I met online, who was perfectly sweet but terribly boring and conventional in person. Lesson being, it's fine to crush on online friends, but don't go all or nothing until you've met in person.

[Suspicious]

Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Urgh I'm having a confidence crisis here about this email, I just feel reluctant to send it, I just have this horrible feeling it's going to make him mad because he only checks his email at work mid week and ... well... he's at work. Perhaps the fact I'm having the crisis should be a signal that my instincts are screaming "Don't do it!" and maybe I should listen to them? See, this is why I am an emotionally expressive person, no room for doubt that way lol I may just go with the suggestion on my other thread and send cookies, I wonder if that would work? :D

Think very carefully, and be very careful. I've been pressured in to more than one relationship by pushy feeler types, because I liked them as a friend and didn't want to hurt them, but they wouldn't back off if I didn't hurt them. Sometimes feelers have a tendency toward thinking love is as enticing a concept to everyone else as it is to them, and that if you just talk it out, they secretly, deep down inside, want it. Unfortunately, that's often not reality. With the people who pressured me, I eventually just broke and stopped talking to them all-together, period. Would you rather just be friends, or have "all or nothing"?

[Lil]

	Originally Posted by Lyra To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Silence - I have been talking to this man, text and voice, almost every day for 3 years. I know where he works, lives and I know his friends and family. I understand your concerns but please, I'm a grown woman with more than 2 braincells, please give me some credit for making sure he is who he claims to be before getting so involved.

Lyra, the confusion comes from what you said in post #12:

	Lyra: So far we've had no voice contact, only messenger

Maybe you could clarify?

[katrin]

She meant that she hadn't had voice contact since she sent him the original email.