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Is frustration common for INTJs? None
Old 01-08-2011, 04:13 AM   #1
Autumnleaf
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Before I found out I am INTJ I was frustrated a lot but since learning about it and how others view us, I haven't been frustrated so much. My attitude has gone from, what is wrong with those morons to 'Forgive them, for they know not what they do.'
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:47 AM   #2
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Frustration was my second name earlier. I didn't know that most of the others don't understand, analyze and plan like I do. Their behavior seemed to be irrational. Now that I know myself better and I've finally accepting that most people around me are fundamentally different, I understand that they don't choose to be stupid. It might be that they aren't stupid at all, but reacting to the reality from different basis than I do.

For instance, my limited capability to smell would be a weakness for a dog's point of view. (Assuming that dogs could analyze, judge and use words.)
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:50 AM   #3
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It gets better
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The "morons" aren't so bad, some of them actually turn out to be quite smart and noble. Attitudes towards people change, I guess. But I sympathize and understand where you are coming from - it feels very familiar.

And congratulations
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:31 PM   #4
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The frustration is very, very common as is thinking everyone else is a moron.
Each type has its own gift to society and there is much you can learn from the ones you probably deem the biggest morons.

I am as guilty the next but we are also guilty of being elitist about our type but we really are no better than anyone else, but we are extreme both good and bad.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:49 PM   #5
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This thread makes me chuckle. I guess I'm not quite there yet because I still see them as morons. But atleast there is hope that someday my frustration will wane, along with this annoying twitch in my eye.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:01 PM   #6
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It's easier sure but stupid people still frustrate me.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:16 PM   #7
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From an INTP perspective, I'd always sort of understood that most people did things differently. It's never really bothered me so long as it didn't seem to be hurting anyone or directly interfering with whatever I felt like doing. The INTJ "plan out the possibilities and stick to what's appropriate" thing always struck me as a bit irrational though. The (admittedly few) INTJs I've personally encountered seem to treat situations as closed systems (when the majority are anything but), and as a result, are complicated past the point that the human mind can even hold all of the variables in short term memory, let alone analyze their consequences. Based on that, not leaving a lot of room for improvisation has always seemed to me like it was begging to run into "frustration".
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:54 PM   #8
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I'm perpetually frustrated with the occasional moment of anger. Things always have a way of cropping up at just the right moment to get in the way of my plans.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:56 PM   #9
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I had and still have frustration because I'm misunderstood by just about everybody that I know. Before I knew that I am INTJ, I felt like an anomaly in a negative way. Now that I know my personality type, I call everyone an idiot and I take advantage of my superiority.
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:40 AM   #10
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I was amazed recently when I realized that the majority of people who have been frustrating to me in my working life have been ISFJ personality types. They often insist on rules and order without thinking about the reasons for it, so as an INTJ I've found that frustrating. So I'm becoming a little less frustrated as I read up on the details of how ISFJ folks perceive the world, and it's helping me become compassionate towards different world views.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:28 AM   #11
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  Originally Posted by rufsketch1
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The (admittedly few) INTJs I've personally encountered seem to treat situations as closed systems (when the majority are anything but).

Priceless advice indeed!

The reality is, if we really are that smart we would figured out why we dont understand other people and would then correct the root of the problem, instead we just label others as idtiots the ones who dont share our logic, not clever and certainly not logical.

So who is the bigger idiot, the one who doesnt apply logic, or the one who lables the one who does not apply logic?

The frustration does not come about becuase others make (what we believe to be) bad choices, it's often because they can't articulate to us in our own language why they did what they did, how dare they!!!

We claim to be fair and logical but in reality, we only such in our own eyes.

We claim to be good at seeing the bigger picture, how closed minded is it to simply condemn what we dont understand?

You have a choice, blame others and be eternally angry and disappointed, or take responsiblity yourself and do something about it.

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Old 01-10-2011, 09:10 AM   #12
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This is starting to click with me. I don't have many friends because of my attitude. I tend to think most people are morons and well that doesn't bode well with making friends and influencing people.

For me I discovered part of my frustration was actually a lack of boundaries. It seems I'm okay with people as long as my need for say space and distance is respected.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:33 PM   #13
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I always get fustrated but I have learned to control my fustration so that I don't drive myself nuts will all the morons I am surrounded by.
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Old 01-10-2011, 03:17 PM   #14
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  Originally Posted by karenann33
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I'm okay with people as long as my need for say space and distance is respected.

Its great that the penny is beginning to drop with you karenann, others can lecture all they want but until the recipient buys in its meaningless.

We like perspective, for example at social gatherings (the relatively few we attend) INTJ's are usually found around the edges or in corners where they can observe from a safe distance.

Invasion of space is unfortunately an occupational hazard, other types like being "touchy-feeley" and have no concept of space.

It all comes down to what you want out of life. I have come to realise that life is much richer and more enjoyable if you learn to appreciate others and go with it. Just like the law of gravity there are somethings you just can avoid, so don't fight it just accept it and move on.

You'll then lead a much happier and more enriched life.

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Old 01-10-2011, 04:08 PM   #15
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Frustration has been my primary struggle through most of my life. Much of it when I was younger was not being understood and not being able to find a place or path that felt like home. I'm less concerned now with how others view me with the exception of a few close personal realtionships. I've had to see my frustration and the resulting anger through the eyes of others to really take a dramatic turn in approach.

Most of my frustration now comes from being unable to meet the standards I've set for myself. Success seems just out of reach and oddly enough I seem to make excuses for any success I do obtain, as if to toss aside anything that isn't at the highest standard.
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:17 PM   #16
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Old 01-10-2011, 10:28 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by blueranger
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Priceless advice indeed!

The reality is, if we really are that smart we would figured out why we dont understand other people and would then correct the root of the problem, instead we just label others as idtiots the ones who dont share our logic, not clever and certainly not logical.

So who is the bigger idiot, the one who doesnt apply logic, or the one who lables the one who does not apply logic?

The frustration does not come about becuase others make (what we believe to be) bad choices, it's often because they can't articulate to us in our own language why they did what they did, how dare they!!!

We claim to be fair and logical but in reality, we only such in our own eyes.

We claim to be good at seeing the bigger picture, how closed minded is it to simply condemn what we dont understand?

You have a choice, blame others and be eternally angry and disappointed, or take responsiblity yourself and do something about it.

Yep, I think some INTJs can be pretty delusional, do I view myself as personally exempt?, no. It just personally irritates me when others claim certain people, or those in general, are "delusional" without seeing their own flaws/self-blindness.

Haughtiness is a great big neon sign for delusion, in my view, other personality traits can follow suit.

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Old 01-11-2011, 07:31 AM   #18
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The reality is, if we really are that smart we would figured out why we dont understand other people and would then correct the root of the problem, instead we just label others as idtiots the ones who dont share our logic, not clever and certainly not logical.

So who is the bigger idiot, the one who doesnt apply logic, or the one who lables the one who does not apply logic?

Others usually don't understand us either, and aren't capable of nor willing to understand, so WTF are you talking about???
As for general understanding of people you are speaking of different types of intelligences, INTJs usually have the rational kind of intelligence for strategics and analyzing. Yes, we are usually bad with people. Some other personality types are good with people, but are clueless with many other aspects of life, and on top of that, are not willing to "dig deeper" to figure it out (unlike INTJs).

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Old 01-11-2011, 07:42 AM   #19
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  Originally Posted by mastermind23
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Others usually don't understand us either, and aren't capable of nor willing to understand, so WTF are you talking about???
As for general understanding of people you are speaking of different types of intelligences, INTJs usually have the rational kind of intelligence for strategics and analyzing. Yes, we are usually bad with people. Some other personality types are good with people, but are clueless with many other aspects of life, and on top of that, are not willing to "dig deeper" to figure it out (unlike INTJs).

We have an inate desire to understand, make sense of, organise in to systems etc.
This desire for improvement does give us an advantage, when applied to understanding people it means that we can understand and work with and learn from others whilst still retaining our specialisms.

For example many INTJ's have the technical capability to rise high in their professions. Poor people skills mean that realaively few are put into management roles but are retained as skilled technical labour. Putting aside the things that wind us up about others and learning to deal with people of different types means that we are then candidates for management positions. The specific traits you ellude to are not easily learnded, in my view its far easier for us to assimilate others behaviours than it is for others to assimilate ours.

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Old 01-11-2011, 09:41 AM   #20
Ted
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  Originally Posted by mastermind23
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Others usually don't understand us either, and aren't capable of nor willing to understand, so WTF are you talking about???
As for general understanding of people you are speaking of different types of intelligences, INTJs usually have the rational kind of intelligence for strategics and analyzing. Yes, we are usually bad with people. Some other personality types are good with people, but are clueless with many other aspects of life, and on top of that, are not willing to "dig deeper" to figure it out (unlike INTJs).

I'm gonna fall into the elitist trap here but I have to comment on this. There are some types that are good with people but not logic. But to be specific, they're good with dealing with other people who aren't good with logic. In short, my point is that an individual/group of logical/rational/intelligent people are more likely to accomplish a task successfully and to a higher standard than a group of illogical/irrational/unintelligent people with high EQ.

p.s. i quoted that post because it's what triggered my thought, I'm not directing anything towards anyone specifically.

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Old 01-11-2011, 10:04 AM   #21
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@ Ted: I would agree with you there.

After reading these comments and thinking for a while I think that I can post a few thoughts. I believe that frustration with different individuals is often common for INTJs if such contact is forced. I know that I am reluctant to leave my solitude and dislike it greatly when others either force me to be with others or poorly attempt to manipulate me into doing what they wish. There are many other reasons for anger or frustration, but I have found my previously low ability to empathize or sympathize with the concerns of others or relate to others emotionally to be a setback. I can easily change how I act and, while draining, I can easily create a decent string of contacts who are willing to help me. However, I know that most often I will most likely remain an outcast to the majority of society.

The unwillingness of others to attempt to learn more about me and the failure of the world in general to work towards my ideals is also frustrating. I can both see how great the world can be and how far we have fallen short of it. Such thoughts generally initiate a depression, for then thoughts go on to how we are ultimately alone, etc. These kinds of things I used to speak about to my family, but they refused to think about such things. I was thought to have been trying to emulate the ideas of some older person and told that I don't really think about such things because I was just a kid, etcetera. Further attempts at meaningful or interesting conversation between my family and I have also failed. Such is frustrating as well, but I have learned to simply deal with my losses and move on. I suppose I am rather accepting to the overall situation and am actually content with the way things are. I am given ample time alone and satisfied with my pursuits.

I especially find the "N" of "INTJ" to be quite a problem. I also find the close-mindedness of others to be irritating. I also find that all my family members hate discussions to be irritating. However, I believe it is generally best to move on and shrug off such problems and I generally have great success doing so, though I note that the lack of reaction to insult and so on seems to only reinforce others' perceptions of my having an unemotional and cold personality.

It seems that this post has become rather longer than I originally intended, so I will halt here.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:11 AM   #22
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  Originally Posted by Lord Shadowbane
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The unwillingness of others to attempt to learn more about me and the failure of the world in general to work towards my ideals is also frustrating.

That's naive. I remember when I used to think like that. You will also be disappointed to find that people often say things they don't mean, even if they think they mean it. I have come to a point where I avoid relying on others even for simple things. If I want to get something done, then I better plan for it to be a solo task.

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Old 01-11-2011, 06:24 PM   #23
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  Originally Posted by rufsketch1
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From an INTP perspective, I'd always sort of understood that most people did things differently. It's never really bothered me so long as it didn't seem to be hurting anyone or directly interfering with whatever I felt like doing. The INTJ "plan out the possibilities and stick to what's appropriate" thing always struck me as a bit irrational though. The (admittedly few) INTJs I've personally encountered seem to treat situations as closed systems (when the majority are anything but), and as a result, are complicated past the point that the human mind can even hold all of the variables in short term memory, let alone analyze their consequences. Based on that, not leaving a lot of room for improvisation has always seemed to me like it was begging to run into "frustration".

This is the entire problem, as everybody thinks there are alternatives to doing things right. If it takes longer, does not end with a product of equal quality, and therefor wastes effort, its not right. Alternatives are wastes of energy.
For instance, I just recently started a job, and the money I grossed for the company was five times the previous shift. They just moved me to another shift, and once again the income has dropped to normal levels. All of the other workers think that they have alternatives to whats right, and continue to claim that even as the numbers agree with me.
Whats even worse is that I do exactly the same thing every day, yet every day the shift behind me has a different opinion every day. Nothing changed, they just respond to it differently based on their emotions.
Also, we dont hold that many variables, people just wont put the effort into learning even the most basic things. They have very low standards for themselves. One of the most important variables to us is time and effort. Does this get the most product for the least effort, and in a reasonable period of time? Not asking the question quite obviously leads to inefficiency.
Most other people, if not all, think about what they want, and not what it takes to get it. We think the opposite, about what it takes to get, then if we want it.

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Old 01-12-2011, 03:13 AM   #24
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  Originally Posted by Doggzilla
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people just wont put the effort into learning even the most basic things. They have very low standards for themselves. One of the most important variables to us is time and effort. Does this get the most product for the least effort, and in a reasonable period of time? Not asking the question quite obviously leads to inefficiency.

A very salient point. Many other lack the awareness, motivation/desire to understand others. Everyone expects everyone else to be like them and understand them. Thats just human nature. Our value of efficiency and ablity to see alternatives mean that we liek few others have the raw ingredients for making things better for ourselves.

You can either be like everyone else and just expect everyone to be like and you and get annoyed becuase they are not and be isolated, or you can be the smart one and learn how to get the best out of other people and win them to your cause.

I don't expect anyone to buy in to this next statement as its something you have to realise on your own, but after 20+ years of being angry and frustrated I have finally learnded that there is just no point its a waste of effort and it just makes you ill.

Leanring to let go of the things that annoy is one of the most liberating and energising experiences ever. Doing so leaves you free to expend effort on the more importating things like deep personal relationships and hobbies. Being annoyed just wears you down and takes vital brain power in dealing with more important issues.

Eastern philosophies have alot to teach the west, in particular INTJ's we are almost the anti-thesis of eastern teachings and its too our own detriment.

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Old 01-12-2011, 09:47 AM   #25
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Let me put it this way: yes, I am frustrated every day with people. Just observing them annoys me.

I would love to rule earth with a just iron fist, executing pedophiles that get paroled, politicians that accept bribes for votes, etc.

How sweet that would be...
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