[Rammaukinn]

I won't get into the arguments in detail unless some people really want me to.

How many of you all are in 'Open Relationships', not the type where you just have sex with tons of people all the time, but the kind where you would let your partner do what they wanted to if they decided to try something?

My girlfriend (ESFJ) and I have dated for a little over three years and a half and started an open relationship about a year ago. Since starting it we have grown even more in love. The whole getting rid of requirements on love, and just letting the emotion act on its own really let us experience 'pure love'. I guess that's the best way to put it. It took some time to get over jealousy issues, but we are both pretty confident that this is the right thing.

[ShaiGar]

Not me. I have a collar and leash for the woman I love... And an ankle bracelet with chain that keeps her close to the kitchen.

[True Rune]

Uh, never heard of it or heard of anyone who does it. But I would think of it as foolish from what I've seen so far. "Letting emotion act on it's own" results in hurt feelings, and you really can't strip "love" of it's requirements. But then again I don't understand romantic love, and only really know good will love.

[Rammaukinn]

	Originally Posted by Ishida To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Uh, never heard of it or heard of anyone who does it. But I would think of it as foolish from what I've seen so far. "Letting emotion act on it's own" results in hurt feelings, and you really can't strip "love" of it's requirements. But then again I don't understand romantic love, and only really know good will love.

Well you have to be incredibly honest with your partner so neither one gets hurt. You have to function with the thinking that the other person's happiness is greater then your own in regards to their own person. Which means basically that you shouldn't have control or requirements over any aspect of their life. "I love you...unless you do this or that" hardly seems to be treating love as an emotion but rather as a series of conditions that suit your level of comfort.

I argue that if you truly love someone, you will let them do what makes them happiest. If they truly love you they would let you do the same. What is there to lose? If my girlfriend found someone better than me (though my INTJness finds that unlikely), then she should go for it and leave me so she can be happier.

The very foundation of human happiness comes from freedom of one to act as one wishes. If you love someone, should they not be free to do as they please? Aren't requirements on love just extensions of silly emotions and insecurities such as jealousy, control issues, selfishness and such?

In short, unconditional love is love practiced in its most true form. How can you say that you will love someone unless they sleep with someone else? Sure they could have broken some sort of 'trust' and made you upset, but isnt it the relationship's fault for having excessory requirements not revolving around the base of the relationship, which is love for one another?

(But hey, do whatever you want, we just set up a system for where neither of us could get hurt if we wanted to experiment... which seems to be the root cause of most failed relationships. I can't cheat on my girlfriend if there are no rules.)

[True Rune]

Things like that don't seem like they'd last. Plus I don't see promiscuity as a good thing. I don't think unconditional love is being a "permissive" parent, letting them do as they wish. I don't really think I can talk on this though. I find romantic stuff boring, and get confused by your use of the word "love".

[Rammaukinn]

Yeah defining terms usually helps, I should have done that. I guess I am using love as "Concern for the welfare of another". Romantic love would just be the person you have the most concern for and also enjoy doing all those things usually associated with love with. I figure this is the broadest swoop.

I wanted to make it clear that this doesn't lead to promiscuity. My girlfriend and I have only done one thing each so far, we just dont like most people so we dont like doing things with them. But sometimes it can be fun. There are many types of Open Relationships, it isn't all just for nymphos
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Yeah I always hear "Doesn't seem like it would last", but with not many people trying it, and the huge failure rate of marriages, I figure I have some okay odds.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I can't say I've never thought about it, but I have decided against it because I believe that, for me, the trust issues I already have would be exacerbated.....and I also believe that the trust within the relationship would eventually be eroded.

[changos]

Be careful. (just mi 2 cents). I live in Central America (perhaps that made my case so difficult). Never tried an open relationship or had real interest on it until I tried. Two girls wanted it on diff times of my life (I knew it was a mistake for me to ask for it... they asked first). We put things clear but didn't work.

Sexual relationships, or even kiss (good kisses, the ones you enjoy) create attachments with people. Beware of that. In my group of friends (with another INTJ) we believe there is no such thing as an open relationship.

Everything for me ended up in a mess as they wanted a real relationship at the end. Ok, blame it on me, perhaps I didn't knew how to manage it, who knows. I'm not the kind of guy for open relationships and I regret it.

The world is a small place, it can ruin your next relationships.

[vad1981]

Originally Posted by Rammaukinn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I won't get into the arguments in detail unless some people really want me to. How many of you all are in 'Open Relationships', not the type where you just have sex with tons of people all the time, but the kind where you would let your partner do what they wanted to if they decided to try something? My girlfriend (ESFJ) and I have dated for a little over three years and a half and started an open relationship about a year ago. Since starting it we have grown even more in love. The whole getting rid of requirements on love, and just letting the emotion act on its own really let us experience 'pure love'. I guess that's the best way to put it. It took some time to get over jealousy issues, but we are both pretty confident that this is the right thing.

Well, it worked for you - you are probably in the minority. I personally cant get over the jealousy issue - in fact I became obsessed with it to the point where it was interferin with my work, my life, my hapiness.

[Parallel]

Originally Posted by Rammaukinn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well you have to be incredibly honest with your partner so neither one gets hurt. You have to function with the thinking that the other person's happiness is greater then your own in regards to their own person. Which means basically that you shouldn't have control or requirements over any aspect of their life. "I love you...unless you do this or that" hardly seems to be treating love as an emotion but rather as a series of conditions that suit your level of comfort. I argue that if you truly love someone, you will let them do what makes them happiest. If they truly love you they would let you do the same. What is there to lose? If my girlfriend found someone better than me (though my INTJness finds that unlikely), then she should go for it and leave me so she can be happier. The very foundation of human happiness comes from freedom of one to act as one wishes. If you love someone, should they not be free to do as they please? Aren't requirements on love just extensions of silly emotions and insecurities such as jealousy, control issues, selfishness and such? In short, unconditional love is love practiced in its most true form. How can you say that you will love someone unless they sleep with someone else? Sure they could have broken some sort of 'trust' and made you upset, but isnt it the relationship's fault for having excessory requirements not revolving around the base of the relationship, which is love for one another? (But hey, do whatever you want, we just set up a system for where neither of us could get hurt if we wanted to experiment... which seems to be the root cause of most failed relationships. I can't cheat on my girlfriend if there are no rules.)

I completely agree with you. When my boyfriend jokes around on several occasions about wanting to have a threesome or suggesting something kinky that I'm not into, I reply with, "You're not gonna get that from me so feel free to get it from some other girl." I say this with the intention that I don't want him to have these desires and feel like being in a relationship with me is imposing an oppressive weight that demands the repression of his desires just because he won't get it from me. When I say something like that, he immediately gets offended and accuses me of "not caring about him" as he is the jealous type that gets mad if I comment that I think some guy is just good-looking.

[vad1981]

Originally Posted by Parallel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I completely agree with you. When my boyfriend jokes around on several occasions about wanting to have a threesome or suggesting something kinky that I'm not into, I reply with, "You're not gonna get that from me so feel free to get it from some other girl." I say this with the intention that I don't want him to have these desires and feel like being in a relationship with me is imposing an oppressive weight that demands the repression of his desires just because he won't get it from me. When I say something like that, he immediately gets offended and accuses me of "not caring about him" as he is the jealous type that gets mad if I comment that I think some guy is just good-looking.

Your boyfriend has some fantasies brewing in his head like a lot of guys, whether they will bubble out or not - depends on him. Also sounds like he's too sensitive about you looking at a guy (or maybe its just his way of showing you that he loves you).

[OneBadMother]

I guess that it can work, but in my case it would probably be my partner doing all the doing what they wanted. I am somewhat possessive of people (rather, person) I love and while I want to make them as happy, healthy, and victorious as it's within my power to do, I would wish that I would be personally capable of maintaining that state for them. People who I am capable of feeling like that towards are very rare and only one at any given moment. So though it would be preferable for them to do whatever with my knowledge rather than without, I can't say it wouldn't sting. I would probably end up distancing myself from them in order to get over any hangups or jealousy I might have, causing me to no longer care about that person and defeating the purpose of being in a relationship with them at all.

[Jakalwarrior]

I would rather be alone than share. Lonely is something I can cope with, something I can live with indefinetly. My loved one sleeping with somone else is not though. They would be dead to me on the spot. Would tell them thank you for hurting me, never speak to me again, hope your new person screws you over royally.
Conversely I would never cheat. I wouldn't want to hurt my person.
Its just not in me to comprehend that sort of relationship.
I have a good friend who is in a relationship like that with his ex-fiance'. To her face he will tell her its great and all by choice. Privately it tears him up and hes only in it because its the only way he can hang on to anything with her.

[Motor Jax]

screw that

there has to be a level of committment of both parties. there has to be a restraint for these emotions, and that takes discipline (which is obviously getting all to uncommon in today's world)


besides, i wouldn't want sloppy seconds

[Jakalwarrior]

	Originally Posted by Motor Jax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	screw that there has to be a level of committment of both parties. there has to be a restraint for these emotions, and that takes discipline (which is obviously getting all to uncommon in today's world) besides, i wouldn't want sloppy seconds

Just picture your woman holding hands with another man. Next they move on to some light kissing and it keeps goin on until hes ravaging her, hands and tongue everywhere (both parties, her enjoying it just as much ). It then moves on to nasty sex with lots of moaning. Afterwards they hold and cuddle. After a bit of conversation and light giggling she gives him a kiss then she comes home, kisses you on the cheek, and tells you all about it.

Then I turn off the cheap porn with a sign of disgust and thank sphagetti monster I have a faithful loving wife.

[TheBlindSage]

	Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would rather be alone than share. Lonely is something I can cope with, something I can live with indefinetly. My loved one sleeping with somone else is not though. They would be dead to me on the spot. Would tell them thank you for hurting me, never speak to me again, hope your new person screws you over royally. Conversely I would never cheat. I wouldn't want to hurt my person.

QFT
Just had to do that.

[Rammaukinn]

Originally Posted by Jakalwarrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Just picture your woman holding hands with another man. Next they move on to some light kissing and it keeps goin on until hes ravaging her, hands and tongue everywhere (both parties, her enjoying it just as much ). It then moves on to nasty sex with lots of moaning. Afterwards they hold and cuddle. After a bit of conversation and light giggling she gives him a kiss then she comes home, kisses you on the cheek, and tells you all about it. Then I turn off the cheap porn with a sign of disgust and thank sphagetti monster I have a faithful loving wife.

	Originally Posted by Motor Jax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	screw that there has to be a level of committment of both parties. there has to be a restraint for these emotions, and that takes discipline (which is obviously getting all to uncommon in today's world) besides, i wouldn't want sloppy seconds

You guys are missing the point. I got rid of jealousy. It is a stupid emotion. What use does it serve except to make everyone mad and upset? Train yourself to shed yourself of this emotion, that is what you should aim for, instead of feeding it by making sex the core part of relationships.

Love does not equal sex, everyone will agree with this.

Why then is sex the most critical part of most relationships. Shouldn't love be? Sure sex can be an expression of love, but only if you choose to make it so. Now most of you have to be honest, you are not always "showing the gift of love" when you have sex, sometimes you are just having a good time! Now if you can learn that your spouse can feel this same 'just a good time' feeling you can feel, then surely you can understand that sex is not an inherent betrayel of relationships. Simply because our culture has set sex up to be so important, making it in fact the entire basis of relationship (cheating a relationship only refers to sex) rules, does not mean you should keep it that way.

I am deeply commited to keeping my partner happy. Anything she wants to do she can (obvious exceptions like become a crack whore) and she lets me do whatever I want.

Our relationship focuses on love, not on sex, an action which only has as much meaning as you want to put into it.

[ElstonGunn]

	Originally Posted by Rammaukinn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am deeply commited to keeping my partner happy. Anything she wants to do she can (obvious exceptions like become a crack whore) and she lets me do whatever I want.

Originally Posted by Rammaukinn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Which means basically that you shouldn't have control or requirements over any aspect of their life. "I love you...unless you do this or that" hardly seems to be treating love as an emotion but rather as a series of conditions that suit your level of comfort. [...] The very foundation of human happiness comes from freedom of one to act as one wishes. If you love someone, should they not be free to do as they please? Aren't requirements on love just extensions of silly emotions and insecurities such as jealousy, control issues, selfishness and such?

Can you rectify these two statements?

It's probably just my inner SFJ coming out, but I can't help but get the hunch that you want the benefits of a relationship without the obligations.

[PortInStorm]

I think the crux of the problem is actually the idea of exclusivity itself, not the idea of exclusivity of sex (sexual unfaithfulness) or loving feelings ("emotional affairs").

To be honest, I abide by my faith that says that a couple should be sexually faithful to partner(s) they've committed to. However, I realize that men usually have the hangup regarding sharing sexually, and women the hangup of sharing emotionally. Since the specific facet of exclusivity is up for grabs based on gender, the underlying objection is sharing your partner at all. Cases in point: the often rough relationship between wives and their mothers-in-law, the fact that husbands and wives here in NA move out from their extended families etc.

But we all need to realize that you can't expect one person to not feel other things for other people, as much as you can try to curb those feelings or actions. It's just not right to expect your spouse to limit everything to you.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think the crux of the problem is actually the idea of exclusivity itself, not the idea of exclusivity of sex (sexual unfaithfulness) or loving feelings ("emotional affairs"). To be honest, I abide by my faith that says that a couple should be sexually faithful to partner(s) they've committed to. However, I realize that men usually have the hangup regarding sharing sexually, and women the hangup of sharing emotionally. Since the specific facet of exclusivity is up for grabs based on gender, the underlying objection is sharing your partner at all. Cases in point: the often rough relationship between wives and their mothers-in-law, the fact that husbands and wives here in NA move out from their extended families etc. But we all need to realize that you can't expect one person to not feel other things for other people, as much as you can try to curb those feelings or actions. It's just not right to expect your spouse to limit everything to you.

Agreed. However, I think this question has more to do with trust. I believe that, for the mojority of people, sharing their partner with others would slowly erode their trust in their partner. Thoughts of the 'other'(s) being more desirable, more intelligent, more capable, whatever.....would creep in.

[Motor Jax]

and i can't get over the fact of why two people who claim to love each other would decide to get their rocks off on someone else

"i love you, but i'm going to screw her. it's what i want to do."


...seems to relay the msg that obviously your partner is just not doing the job... and it goes the other way also...



"it's just not fulfilling when i can screw around on you."


ok, i'm ranting

but i'm gonna have to pull the BS flag on this one...

[PortInStorm]

Yes, true. But I think this lack of trust/jealousy comes from a misunderstanding that any one human can be entirely better across all domains. Whenever you look at two people, you realize one is stronger at this, and the other stronger at that. Once everyone realizes this, they might relax a little and know that the very reason that a partner looks elsewhere for certain needs (craves the other person's strength in a partner's weak area), is the same reason they'll stay with their current partner (as soon as you realize the other's strength, you should see their weaknesses where your partner shines, and so don't want to lose all your present partner's strengths).





2ndtimestudent added to this post, 2 minutes and 49 seconds later...

Yes, I don't agree with sexual infidelity, but honestly, what's wrong with admitting that you can't fill all of your partner's needs? I also can't fill every job description in this country, but it doesn't make me feel inadequate.

I'll never throw homey, extravagant family dinners at Christmas and Thanksgiving, so my husband relies on his mom for that. That's OK with me.

[Motor Jax]

as with strength and weaknesses, i'd rather have the individualized package with all the flaws, than going around and getting the whole package from a bunch of different people


"oh, that's a nice Chevy Geo Metro"

"Thanks. It's kinda small, but it has great gas mileage. Although it doesn't go as fast as other cars. And it has no CD player. But those are just some flaws it has."



"Say, that's a nice Silverado/F150/Dodge, half convertible, Lincoln you have."

"Thanks. I wanted the whole package with the XM Radio, Onstar, 4 wheel drive, heated leather seats, and convertible too. Did I mention it has a Hemi?"



so, one falls in love with someone's strengths... and never mind the weaknesses since they can now be ignored by going to someone else to fulfill those strengths?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Originally Posted by Motor Jax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and i can't get over the fact of why two people who claim to love each other would decide to get their rocks off on someone else "i love you, but i'm going to screw her. it's what i want to do." ...seems to relay the msg that obviously your partner is just not doing the job... and it goes the other way also... "it's just not fulfilling when i can screw around on you." ok, i'm ranting but i'm gonna have to pull the BS flag on this one...

This has less to do with love than sex for pleasure only. Variety is the spice of life you know.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 51 seconds later...

Originally Posted by 2ndtimestudent To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, true. But I think this lack of trust/jealousy comes from a misunderstanding that any one human can be entirely better across all domains. Whenever you look at two people, you realize one is stronger at this, and the other stronger at that. Once everyone realizes this, they might relax a little and know that the very reason that a partner looks elsewhere for certain needs (craves the other person's strength in a partner's weak area), is the same reason they'll stay with their current partner (as soon as you realize the other's strength, you should see their weaknesses where your partner shines, and so don't want to lose all your present partner's strengths). 2ndtimestudent added to this post, 2 minutes and 49 seconds later... Yes, I don't agree with sexual infidelity, but honestly, what's wrong with admitting that you can't fill all of your partner's needs? I also can't fill every job description in this country, but it doesn't make me feel inadequate. I'll never throw homey, extravagant family dinners at Christmas and Thanksgiving, so my husband relies on his mom for that. That's OK with me.

Very good points. It may come down to the question of why we even bother being in monogymous relationships. I mean why don't we just all live in communes and sleep around (protected of course)? There's something within the human psyche that pushes us toward couple pairing....I think????





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 1 minutes and 8 seconds later...

"It's kinda small....."

Now that's funny...........

[catd]

I have known a lot of couples that tried it. It always destroyed the relationship at some point. Whether it was a threesome or an open relationship, it was always the death knell.