[Vogue]

I feel like I don't read a lot about INTJs and ISTPs in romantic relationships.

Why is that? What are potential problems that could arise if they aren't adressed? What are potential strengths?

It seems kind of useful that both have the potential to be 'distant,' because both parties probably move at about the same pace in relationships, right?

[stock]

My ex mom and dad in law are an ISTP/INTJ couple. They met in high school where he was slightly outgoing and confident and she was introverted but tough. There is an extraordinary air of toughness and practicality around everything they do. The lesson they taught their kids "If you're gonna be dumb, you'd better be tough"

When young he was a navy sub guy, so she would stay home. Each kid was planned and she cared for them while he was away at sea or training. She was a tough love sort of mom.

Now days he has a fair amount of Fi and is a minister at a church they run while she has a fair amount of Fe and is obsessed with scrapbooking. (I dont get to scrapbook because I dont follow the rules...
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) It is interesting to watch them interact as they love each other very much and are dedicated and will never breakup. He hugs her and says he loves her but then roll his eyes and give her the death glare because she is late to everything and is crazy anal about weird Fe stuff, but not good with time or planning-but is reasonably good with money.

She responds with funny Ti sarcasm and pokes at him. They sort of hug, peck kiss, then part to their own areas of the house to do their own things and are very happy that way.

They both tell each other exactly what gifts they want and if surprised both will be VERY blunt and say "well I DIDNT ASK for this, so why did you buy it?"

They do argue sometimes but it is sort snippy one liners and then a retreat. More equal expression of frustration than a real fight to be honest. One time though, she kept telling he had cut the shrub out front at the wrong angle and harping on him to do it the "right way". He got pissed and chopped four feet off the top and made it flat...it was hysterical.
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The only serious breaking point they had was when my ex-also an ISTP was a teen. He created a huge strain on the entire family so they shipped him off to live with grandparents as he was destroying their marriage.

I lived with them during my undergrad after the ISTP dumped me when our first son was a week old. Even though they can poke at each other very roughly, they are very good at recognizing the weaker feelers among them and dont poke at them. They are basically my mom and dad now.
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[auria]

	Originally Posted by Vogue To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I feel like I don't read a lot about INTJs and ISTPs in romantic relationships. Why is that? What are potential problems that could arise if they aren't adressed? What are potential strengths? It seems kind of useful that both have the potential to be 'distant,' because both parties probably move at about the same pace in relationships, right?

I found the ISTP/INTJ romantic relationships a rarity; I always knew I was lucky!
We've been together for over eight years now and it's been w.o.n.d.e.r.f.u.l. It's a blessing to journey through life with my most perfect companion, so *quintessential to my soul.

We are both introverted, observant, quiet - (nonverbal, mind-reading, finishing each others' sentences, etc.), which is great because we can enjoy each others' company through forced social functions. We are both logical thinkers so we're linked back to that understanding. He's incredibly smart and quick to figure things out.

Our misunderstanding and strained communication occurs between the S/N and P/J functions. I'm organized, like to make to-do lists, and more serious while he's flexible, adventurous, and relaxed. He lives in the present while I live in the future. Through our differences, we help balance each other out in how we use space and time; we are growing together and it's s0 worth it.

ISTPs are usually quiet thus mysterious but once you get to know one you'll see they're pretty awesome beings. We have a lot of fun together, *I love the way he feels.

[Nepenthe]

I'd love to hear more about this as I just had a relationship with an ISTP bite the dust. I liked them a lot.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by Nepenthe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'd love to hear more about this as I just had a relationship with an ISTP bite the dust. I liked them a lot.

I tried one (although I think he might have been an xSTP), but I found him to be indecisive, unfaithful, fickle and not that good at thinking in an abstract way. He was also more backward- than forward-looking - while I spent my time in the future, he was always in the past.

I wish it would've worked out though because I liked him a lot; we had a lot in common, but I think ISTPs with an underdeveloped F(i) function are immature, uncommitted and victims of their shadow functions (esp. in relationships).

[Nepenthe]

Well, mine was pretty uncomfortable with expressing emotion, but I am not that great at it myself so I understood it fine. I just thought they were really solid and forthright with me, something I very much appreciate. Even though I'm more extroverted they had better people skills. I liked that mechanical tinkering--they were very classic ISTP there, it was new to me. I liked someone trying to explain circuit boards to me. If it wasn't in high school physics, all electricity is like witchcraft to me as far as how intelligible it is. I also adored that they were really good at not seeming condescending while explaining said witchcraft.

Theory was a problem, but he wasn't very jealous so I felt free to set up times with other people where I could bounce my theories off them instead.

The unwillingness to schedule things was more of a problem. If I don't make a plan, I'm likely to sit and read my book at home. I hate being mediocre and that ISTP would get bored. It's taxing to use my Ni spur of the moment to set up fun times. Basically, we got into a rut, and that seems like poison to an ISTP. It also drove me insane to not be able to make plans in advance.

---------- Post added 12-24-2010 at 03:30 AM ----------

It's Fe though, right? I think the outbursts are kind of funny--the INTPs, ENFPs, and ISTPs all do it, but the ISTP was the only one that didn't send me into a tailspin of trying to decide if the outburst required me to take action, or if it was just a thought that someone happened to think (with the ISTP it really was, "stop doing that thing", but unlike the others it was pretty much over as long as it didn't happen again.)

I have a friend who I think is ESTP and I do find them mercurial.

[masterpeach]

	Originally Posted by Nepenthe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's Fe though, right?

Yes, it is. My bad. "My" ISTP didn't communicate emotions too well (but he tried which was cute, and I really appreciated). He required me to be there for him, but leave him alone at the same time. That doesn't work without virtual communication at which he wasn't good.

It was the first time that I couldn't read a person's intentions... My Ne/Fe usually help me, but with this guy... my intuition didn't work at all, and I felt fooled all the time. The things he said and did were too contradictory - my bs detector went off too often.

His inability to look further than today drove me nuts.

[Nepenthe]

I just found it really difficult to address issues without making a plan. I don't have a knack for instantly reading the situation and taking it as it comes. I have to have a structure to be successful. It isn't a very rigid structure, but it is certainly there.


I can't really suggest fun things to do on the spur of the moment. I can take my time and provide several options to choose from. For a while it worked when I scaled back my planning, as I could see it was making him feel confined. When he provided the ideas about what to do and I just planned to let him figure it out, it worked for a while, but I think he got to a point where he was expecting me to come up with new ideas, and I just couldn't within that framework. I'm emphasizing "fun new things to do" because a lot of the connection seemed based on Se.

[Zsych]

I think the usual responses 'take a trip, hiking, amusement park, movies, dancing, martial arts, boating, skiing, etc.' should provide enough sources to throw up some kind of idea.

[masterpeach]

It took me a year to fully analyze and process that short encounter (I've never met an ISTP before; thanks to MBTI I learned to understand what had happened). He called me "uptight" because of my need for a certain structure and (compliance with) rules (although I don't regard myself as rigid at all; he was far more intolerant than I am).

I don't have that many emotional needs, but this guy did not even meet them.

[Zsych]

We need more of the ISTP members to come in here and talk.

[Amphorian]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	We need more of the ISTP members to come in here and talk.

I have no interest in going into details about my previous INTJ/ISTP relationship. I apologize but I prefer to keep such matters cordial.

But I will say this, not all issues that some of the INTJs or INTPs found with their ISTPs reside among all INTJ/ISTPs relationships.

[Nepenthe]

	Originally Posted by Zsych To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think the usual responses 'take a trip, hiking, amusement park, movies, dancing, martial arts, boating, skiing, etc.' should provide enough sources to throw up some kind of idea.

That kind of thing was glaringly obvious. The problem is the where, when, and how of those activities. I can't articulate how painful it was trying to negotiate that. I suppose I could have tried saying, we are going hiking today at blah blah blah park whether you drag your feet or not, be ready at 8, but that style is a little too ENTJ-ish for my taste.

I am hoping the ISTPs will weigh in as well.

[Amphorian]

Originally Posted by Nepenthe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That kind of thing was glaringly obvious. The problem is the where, when, and how of those activities. I can't articulate how painful it was trying to negotiate that. I suppose I could have tried saying, we are going hiking today at blah blah blah park whether you drag your feet or not, be ready at 8, but that style is a little too ENTJ-ish for my taste. I am hoping the ISTPs will weigh in as well.

I like being on time. I'd be hoping around ready to go by 8. Not all ISTPs lack planning skills or even, gasp!, dislike planning or being prepared. ISTPs do like flexibility though.

Eh, Functianalyst and I are the most prominent ISTPs here. Others I haven't really seen come around or stay, and there isn't many topics on this forum about INTJ/ISTPs relationships. Also, ironically, a good portion of the INTJs here are probably ISTPs themselves. Don't expect the weighing in.

[Nepenthe]

No, he was punctual and perfectly capable of planning things in some ways--like getting kitted out for a trip, he'll have everything you could possible need and some things most people won't think of which turn out to be incredibly useful. Awesome person to invite to a potluck, always brought something great to eat.

When I say he wouldn't plan, it's more like if I said something like, "Do you want to go hiking? Okay, where do you want to go? Next weekend?" the whole thing would fall apart. I've realized that most of his friends just announce what they are doing and invite him, and then he prepares very thoroughly, if he's going to show up. That just doesn't work for me in a romantic relationship, to say "I'm doing X, please come if you want."

I wasn't expecting the weighing in, but thanks for putting in some feedback!

[Amphorian]

Eh, I can say for myself that even if I "plan" something, the plan might not go according to plan. I fully take that into account. This the planning to "be prepared". Also it's quite nice, if I don't have much to do something that day, for someone to pop in and go, "You wanna go hiking right now?" and I'd be like "Yeah, sure!" and just do it if I felt like doing so at the time. Other times I will plan ahead. Other times it's nice for the other person to choose a place to go and me plan nothing, because I'd like to explore what they like.

[Zsych]

For all my testing as INTJ and having high Te, I have a very high tendency for just winging it. I don't tend to think that I really need a plan.

Hmm... I think of ISTPs as the survivors (maybe I read that somewhere). Super independent, hard to pin down.

[auria]

Originally Posted by Amphorian To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eh, I can say for myself that even if I "plan" something, the plan might not go according to plan. I fully take that into account. This the planning to "be prepared". Also it's quite nice, if I don't have much to do something that day, for someone to pop in and go, "You wanna go hiking right now?" and I'd be like "Yeah, sure!" and just do it if I felt like doing so at the time. Other times I will plan ahead. Other times it's nice for the other person to choose a place to go and me plan nothing, because I'd like to explore what they like.

Exactly! My guy is fully capable of planning and is always on time but keeps in mind that depending on outcome, he may have to scrap the plan, he's a great at problem solving so he'll work it through as it comes and he is flexible enough to handle it. I learned that from him. His organization and planning skills grew with me and my flexibility and spontaneity grew from him... he's still trying to figure out how to get me to be on time for things though. It's great to just out of the blue, do something new like "let's go snowboard today!" quick plan and scan on the schedule and we'll pack and go. We take turns being spontaneous, and it's a great boost you can do to keep him refreshed.

[EricJ]

I have been interested in this very topic for personal reasons as of late.

You should check out this thread:
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[intjistp]

	Originally Posted by Amphorian To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	*snip*Also, ironically, a good portion of the INTJs here are probably ISTPs themselves. Don't expect the weighing in.

So how can you tell a difference!

[SilentRequiem]

I haven't been in a relationship with an ISTP but my closest friend is an ISTP so I could help with the talk. I know two ISTPs and I would say that personality and personal maturity affects highly how the ISTP functions.

As already mentioned, an ISTP with developed functions and a mature personality, is a very rare example of a loyal, honest person and (for an S) will not irk at the nontraditional approach of an INTJ to things, since given time the person will understand the person eventually (although not fully) and the intentions behind it.
(e.g.: Friend was having bday planned and all, invited me but said "i understand if you can't make it, but I am just telling you" before I even got the chance to talk)

What I find annoying at times, as a pattern (and probably not ISTP specific, but its consolidated with the 2 ISTPs I personally know) is that when the ISTP isn't well, the avoidance and lack of communication becomes too abrupt and intermittent. For example: The person will go for a chat then leave, then get back, then leave, and while chatting the person will most likely say that "nothing is wrong". I being an I, know that the person needs space, and give space accordingly (however the bounce was very long at times, in months time which pretty much is awkward, because no such need is expressed, again it could be specific to the person)

ISTPs are probably the "deepest" S type I could communicate with things, as if passionate about something will go to the depth. However with most topics they prefer to stay "undecided" and "not think too much", sometimes even they give the impression of depth but aren't that deep when it comes to it (in some things, but in their own area of passion, they are) and most importantly they are willing to learn.

About the planning part, I think ISTPs can plan very well if needs be, and come up with different plans for the situation and adjust, the plan is actually most of the time perfect. But the planning works as I have seen, for short-term planning, more like long-term planning. (Most probably due to the high S or so).

I was wondering too, to what extent can an ISTP be objective about a point he/she is discussing, as I have seen from the ISTPs I know, that every point they hold, is linked to certain personal experience or strong belief that, when discussing, the ISTP cannot disassociate the point from him/her-self (often resulting in an OCP-like mentality for discussions).. again such a correlation may not exist, or just too vague (given that the people I know are too few compared to a lot of ISTPs, though these are common patterns)

[intjistp]

One of my brothers is ISTP for sure. He's mechanic and electrician, good in touchy sports like ice hockey and basket ball. Damn good drummer. I remember when he tried to get old moped he got, to work. After trying to read some manual book he simple disassembled the whole thing and memorized every part by hand and how they work together to make it work.
Make him wait without notifying and he will went nuts.

[Philanthropist]

I suspect you'll find very few INTJ/ISTP relationships. Why? INTJs often find ISTPs irrational, strangely moody for a T and extremely stubborn. They have a tendancy to 'get on people's cases' and miss the big picture constantly.

[paperclip]

I've been in a long term relationship with an ISTP for 7 years.

As Phil says they are incredibly and often irrationally stubborn. They will (at least the ISTP that I know well) almost never agree to disagree and rehash the issue again and again. This can be very frustrating for the INTJ that wishes the argument have some kind of conclusion or purpose.

My ISTP is very interested in politics and observes them like sports, but doesn't apply his observations to his daily life. He is however incredibly direct and unemotional, this gives the both of us room to express our emotions in the ways that are most natural to us. Curiously enough, it is due to the mutual preference for emotional distance that I feel most emotionally close with my ISTP.

He is also open to non-traditional relationships which I think works well with his SP and with my need for autonomy/stability. In that sense they can think out of the traditional framework. Monogamy is not the ISTPs strong point. We most often clash when it comes to his drive to look good to others. Seeming competent, fashionable, able, and in control is most important to my ISTP, unlike myself who considers other people's thoughts to a degree but ultimately acts with internal purpose not from external pressures.

Overall our relationship is healthiest when we communicate how we're feeling in a non-threatening way. I love his observations on the way I act. He has helped me learn to enjoy the momentary pleasures of life, good food, good wine, the pleasure of mastering a skill, the pleasure of good conversation. He depends on my long-range view for stability. He can be depressive and anxious when his life isn't living up to his standards, when he is achieving his version of success he is happiest.

My recommendation to you is to find out what his version of success is, what he wants out of life, and then think about how that relates to your own.

[auria]

	Originally Posted by paperclip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	He is also open to non-traditional relationships which I think works well with his SP and with my need for autonomy/stability. In that sense they can think out of the traditional framework. Monogamy is not the ISTPs strong point.

Have you two been monogamous for seven years? When we read the ISTP relationship profile, we came across that point about how they "can't commit or prefer not being monogamous". In my case, he was the one that proposed after 3 years and is monogamous. He admits he takes me day-by-day which can be an advantage, I suppose; if we argue about something today, he looks at it like he can make it better tomorrow whereas I will defer to seeing a long-drawn out perpetual problem that may break it now. Since he takes it day-by-day, he weighs it out that we have a lot more happy days together than bad.