[Zombicide]

I think people should get pregnant just for the sake of having abortions, in fact, when it comes to abortion, if anything, I believe the government should maybe pay for it, especially if they get to collect those precious embryonic stem cells. The closest thing to the father getting to have a say should be if a father to be doesn't want to pay for his unborn child, he should have a choice in that i.e. there should be some paperwork he can fill out to relinquish any responsibility before a certain term (a sort of window of time for sort of requesting an abortion), to which the mother will of course be informed of by the government or whoever, upon receiving this info that the father is requesting an abortion / is dissociating himself with the pregnancy, if the mother doesn't abort the pregnancy, choosing to have the child; continuing the pregnancy is on her and he should have no requirement to participate in the life of the child. That's the only degree of choice I believe the father should have. If he doesn't want to take care of his offspring, it is best that incentive limits the reproduction of psychologically, genetically or financially unfit father's untimely reproduction. It would be best for the mother in that it lets her know what she's getting into with the type of guy who would do that or need to do that, it drastically cuts down on those stupid guys who beat or kill their pregnant wife, girl friend etc (thinking they'll get aways with it because they are perhaps innately stupid), often in an attempt to induce a miscarriage because they'll no longer have a reason to and it's best for society in a self induced eugenic sense. Not to say that I don't want them to beat their wife to death for her being a bad judge of character, as that'd have good eugenic benefit as well but for some reason other people dislike it when they do that, so whatever. I'm not even sure newborns / human larva shouldn't be allowed to be euthanized, I mean, surely many of the parents who'd have their offspring aborted must then lack the maternal/paternal instincts that have overall evolved in us, so I believe it is best to allow them to bring such a tool for natural selection into this equation. To me, the question is more a matter of whether or not newborns should up for abortion, typical abortion crap going without saying, I don't even understand why it's an issue, the main proponents of "pro life" belong to a religion in which its deity commanded and conducted violent abortions. It's just a non-sentient club of flesh liken to cancer.

[Freedom Geek]

I'm pro-choice. Before their brain starts working the fetus isn't a sapient being, it's just a clump of cells, a parasite.

[JustMel]

Originally Posted by Zombicide To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think people should get pregnant just for the sake of having abortions, in fact, when it comes to abortion, if anything, I believe the government should maybe pay for it, especially if they get to collect those precious embryonic stem cells. The closest thing to the father getting to have a say should be if a father to be doesn't want to pay for his unborn child, he should have a choice in that i.e. there should be some paperwork he can fill out to relinquish any responsibility before a certain term (a sort of window of time for sort of requesting an abortion), to which the mother will of course be informed of by the government or whoever, upon receiving this info that the father is requesting an abortion / is dissociating himself with the pregnancy, if the mother doesn't abort the pregnancy, choosing to have the child; continuing the pregnancy is on her and he should have no requirement to participate in the life of the child. That's the only degree of choice I believe the father should have. If he doesn't want to take care of his offspring, it is best that incentive limits the reproduction of psychologically, genetically or financially unfit father's untimely reproduction. It would be best for the mother in that it lets her know what she's getting into with the type of guy who would do that or need to do that, it drastically cuts down on those stupid guys who beat or kill their pregnant wife, girl friend etc (thinking they'll get aways with it because they are perhaps innately stupid), often in an attempt to induce a miscarriage because they'll no longer have a reason to and it's best for society in a self induced eugenic sense. Not to say that I don't want them to beat their wife to death for her being a bad judge of character, as that'd have good eugenic benefit as well but for some reason other people dislike it when they do that, so whatever. I'm not even sure newborns / human larva shouldn't be allowed to be euthanized, I mean, surely many of the parents who'd have their offspring aborted must then lack the maternal/paternal instincts that have overall evolved in us, so I believe it is best to allow them to bring such a tool for natural selection into this equation. To me, the question is more a matter of whether or not newborns should up for abortion, typical abortion crap going without saying, I don't even understand why it's an issue, the main proponents of "pro life" belong to a religion in which its deity commanded and conducted violent abortions. It's just a non-sentient club of flesh liken to cancer.

Two questions: Do you have children and how old are you?

[Hatsumomo1]

Originally Posted by Zombicide To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

\It would be best for the mother in that it lets her know what she's getting into with the type of guy who would do that or need to do that, it drastically cuts down on those stupid guys who beat or kill their pregnant wife, girl friend etc (thinking they'll get aways with it because they are perhaps innately stupid), often in an attempt to induce a miscarriage because they'll no longer have a reason to and it's best for society in a self induced eugenic sense.

I'm not sure if that's the main reason guys kill or beat their pregnant wives...

[Visum]

	Originally Posted by Antares To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Strawman. I did not say men do not have influence. I meant men should not have the last say. I said why should, not if they do.

Did you even read the words before that last sentence?

Originally Posted by Antares To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Just because you might or might not (I'm not trying to personally attack anyone) have a moral or emotional position against abortion, it doesn't mean it has any weight on the logic of this debate (thus, anecdotes or appeals to emotion don't work). The federal government's role is to maintain social stability and prosperity; unless you can prove that with every abortion a woman becomes heavily traumatized and unable to function as a mentally and physically healthy working member of society, the federal government is overstepping their boundaries in regulating abortion.

That rationale goes about as far as saying we shouldn't have a legal drinking age because we can't prove every person under 21 doesn't abuse alcohol. How about we just say that the government shouldn't be involved in our personal lives. However, we still make laws to protect those around us, such as that legal drinking age, the no smoking areas, and motorcycle helmet laws. Why is abortion different? And, no, that wasn't a loaded question.

[dalidaisy]

	Originally Posted by boldbidder To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Let me preface this by saying that I agree wholeheartedly that the final decision on abortion rests solely with the woman. However, with that said, in the event a sperm donor (won't grace them with the honor of being referred to as a father) is dead set against the mother having the child, should he still be liable for paying child support? Just curious.

This is where communication comes into the decision.I believe if a woman gets pregnant & she wants to keep the baby, but the father doesn't, and the woman decides to go through with the pregnancy, she should not expect support from the father. This is the decision she makes when she agrees to have the baby on her own, without agreement from the father.

I thought I would add that I had an intuitive sense about being pregnant, with both of my children, in under 2 weeks after conception. I do not think that I could feel this if there was not something special about the life inside me. I hardly believe the thought process behind believing it is not the taking of a life to abort a fetus, regardless what research you choose to trust.

[steerthestars]

I support abortion in 100% of cases in which the pregnant woman wants an abortion for the following reasons:

1) How the woman got pregnant is irrelevant. Obviously, rape is terrible and incest can cause birth defects, but birth defects can also be caused by the mother and father both carrying a recessive gene for a birth defect. Eeven if a woman knowingly and consensually had sex without birth control, abortion is her decision. We do not inflict pregnancy as a punishment on a woman for not following other people's rather Victorian values regarding sex and procreation. Pregnancy causes infants. Babies shouldn't be born simply because "it was the woman's fault." The point of pregnancy is that the woman wants to have a baby, not carry through the pregnancy.

2) Whether or not a fetus is a person is more of a philosophical question than a medical one. However, the evidence is in and guess what-- women are definitely people. As such, they have control over their bodies and if they don't want to go through with nine months of invasive physical and emotional difficulty that culminates in extremely painful labour and life-lasting medical side effects, that I think they have the option not to do that. Remember, fetuses don't live in incubators, they live in women. Women are people. What if the fetus is female? Then, does it matter whether we abort her or not? After all, she might die from the medical hazards involved in carrying on her own forced pregnancy.

3) With all due respect, no, the father does not have a say in this. Abortions are risky, so is pregnancy. I believe that when men are pregnant, they have 100% choice in the matter of abortion vs. pregnancy.

4) This one's purely selfish. I'm female. I know for sure that if I found mysel pregnant, for whatever the reason, I would sure as hell not want to have what goes on in my body decided by someone else. For that reason, I support other women's choices. Because I'm female, I need, need, NEED, to be pro-choice.





steerthestars added to this post, 2 minutes and 42 seconds later...

Originally Posted by Reqz To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I treat others the way I would like to be treated. I try not to hurt others because it causes them pain, so I would not want to cause pain to a fetus by performing a abortion. A fetus can first feel pain in the 8th week, so abortion is okay before the 8th week in my book. Source on fetal pain: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Thank You and Goodnight

This may come as a shock to you, but WOMEN FEEL PAIN in carrying through pregnancies and going through labour. Apparantely, you consider this irrelevant.