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INFP+INTJ attraction: can it work? (please help) dating, intj and infp, relationship advice
Old 07-28-2008, 01:21 AM   #51
rain
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i love infps...they are such visionaries and intensely brilliant and creative people. but however, their lack of practical sense, common sense and of general everyday living qualities such as being decisive and taking initiative would grate on an intj's nerves in a romantic relationship. eventually there would be arguments and discord.

imho, intjs would do better with istps or intps than an infp.
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Old 07-28-2008, 02:06 AM   #52
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  Originally Posted by rain
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i love infps...they are such visionaries and intensely brilliant and creative people. but however, their lack of practical sense, common sense and of general everyday living qualities such as being decisive and taking initiative would grate on an intj's nerves in a romantic relationship. eventually there would be arguments and discord.

imho, intjs would do better with istps or intps than an infp.





Daimon added to this post, 7 minutes and 13 seconds later...

It's not that he is indecisive, i dont think he is ....Rain, it just seems that he is very passionate with this concept of Union that to me smacks of a Heathcliffe- Catherine union ala Wuthering Heights (Emily Bronte). You are correct with the general description - it is his intellect , rhetoric, brilliance and intuit that i am very drawn to - and i am sad to admit that your use of "grate" is a bullseye with what i have been feeling.

Is it innate generally, for INTJ's to be fierce about space and personal boundaries?

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Old 07-28-2008, 02:43 AM   #53
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  Originally Posted by TheLastMohican
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I wonder if the INFP's understand the darker side of INTJ humor? Does anyone know?

INFP's are often fascinated with their own Shadows. so yes, they understand.

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Old 07-28-2008, 03:22 AM   #54
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You can have a fulfilling relationship with any type as long as both parties handle type differences maturely (and a lot of other things, of course).
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:20 AM   #55
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  Originally Posted by Antares
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You can have a fulfilling relationship with any type as long as both parties handle type differences maturely (and a lot of other things, of course).

Well spoken, Antares. Thanks.

@ Daimon: Yes, I would say I am looking for a soul mate-type connection. But not a consuming one; rather, an uplifting one. I suspect that most people, even us dreamers and idealists, would rather have a mate that is supportive and encouraging and loyal than anything else. I don't think the brooding Heathcliff-type obsession is healthy at ALL.

I think, perhaps, that your INFP is simply seeking for you to return affection at a similar level as he longs to give it to you. If you are, by giving him space and respecting his autonomy as you wish yours to be respected, tell him this. He may be misinterpreting it as coldness or ambivalence on your part.

The curse of the INFP is that we are prickly on the outside and great big romantics on the inside. Or at least I am. I need the other person to initiate the pace of a relationship, so I am comfortable in knowing that my gestures of affection are desired, not rejected. And then ... and this is the tricky part ... I need to know that the depth of my affections does not disgust my S.O.

Just FYI ... INFPs already know that we're strange creatures. We know that we're capable of "feeling" so much more than other people sometimes. We know that you, the INTJ, will probably not match us in this, although we are also aware that the reason we connect at such a deep level is because of Fi, even though it trips you up, we know you are capable of the same depth of emotion. Actually, sometimes I would venture to say you are capable of much more of it than we are, simply because you, as a J, are not burdened by the tenuousness and second-guessing nature of a P.

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Old 07-28-2008, 02:32 PM   #56
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I've typed my mother as INFP and father as INTJ. They've been married 33 years and raised 4 kids, but their relationship is weak often times.

I think what has saved their marriage is the fact that my dad has learned to be patient, and toss logic and reason out the window at times and give in to my mom's irrational desires. At times, he should have put his foot down more, but they are where they are, and they are still together.

On the other hand, my mom has always seemed to have some strange infatuation with me. It's subtle, but it seems apparent that she sees me as some kind of pillar of strength and a very intelligent and capable person. Her nurturing has always boiled down to "you don't really need advice, you'll figure it out." She's made it known to my siblings (ESTP, ENFP, ENFP), that I'm the only one she's never been able to control with guilt. Lol. wtf? It is true, but I laughed when my brother told me she admitted that to him. lol.

I don't know...it's hard to explain, but when I visit my parents, which only occurs about once a month, she seems to view me like a case-study rather than a Son. But my dad, who is extremely similar to myself, is treated pretty sh*tty.

My mom does love that she can show me her artwork, photography, or writing, and that I'll take the time to listen and give her a solid, well-thought-out critique. She often has these "Aha!" moments we talk.

One thing that bugs me about her, though, is, although she views me as some knowledgeable pillar of strength and reason, sometimes she'll ignore my most important advice and guidance based on the fact that she "doesn't want to" do such and such, which is her primary function Fi getting in the way of major, important decisions that need to be addressed. It hurts me to see her suffer sometimes when I've given her good advice and I know that she knows that I've always given her quality advice.

Because of this, I don't think I could ever have a romantic relationship with an INFP.
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Old 07-28-2008, 03:02 PM   #57
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  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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Because of this, I don't think I could ever have a romantic relationship with an INFP.

That you know of, anyway. I suspect some of us get mistyped. Or maybe we mistype ourselves. Personally, the only other types I could see myself being are INTJ, or ISFP, because I know I have a strong Fi-tendency. Maybe INTP ... I certainly act the geek part on a regular basis.

The danger lies in maturity and ability to seek balance, common sense, and personal growth. If you have these things, no matter your type, you will better yourself. If you DON'T do these things, no matter your type, you will irritate others and flounder in life. I had to battle that out as a kid, and still have an issue with it on a lesser level (would I rather go online, read a book, watch a DVD ... or clean house?) As I've mentioned many times in this forum, I am the ONLY "F" type in my family. I was raised by INTJ and ISTJ parents to work first, play later and to have to defend anything I "wanted to do" just for the sake of wanting/not wanting to do it. I was constantly pushed by an ESTx brother to get out of my personal comfort zone.

And I grew up. I accepted responsibility in jobs that required on-the-spot decision making (which I hate) and multi-tasking. My daydreamer self is regulated to my art, writing, and personal relationships. My work self is my shadow ... at my most effective, I am an ExTJ.

Anyway, my point isn't really about me. I'm just using myself as an example. My point is that even within types there a huge variation on the theme. More mature people will always be better in a relationship than lesser mature people.

In the end, all I can say is: watch your love interest carefully, measure him/her against your standards, listen to your heart in matters that aren't deal-breakers, solicit the advice of trusted friends/family, and choose wisely. And then, be ready to SACRIFICE for your chosen mate.

If you do ... your chances of true happiness and compatibility are much higher.

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Old 07-28-2008, 08:17 PM   #58
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I just meant knowing now what I do about INFPs, had I met one that I was sexually attracted to, then subsequently had them test INFP, I would consider not moving forward in a relationship. Of course back when my father met my mother I don't think he knew anything about MBTI.

Surely your retort will be "But if you have a sexual attraction to them it might become a long-term relationship..." "Why would you limit yourself..." "Listen to your heart..."

Perhaps, but I think I'd move along, knowing the struggles of irrationality that lie ahead.
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Old 07-28-2008, 08:39 PM   #59
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I am an INTJ and my wife of 32 years is an INFP. It can work.
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Old 07-28-2008, 09:12 PM   #60
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  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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I just meant knowing now what I do about INFPs, had I met one that I was sexually attracted to, then subsequently had them test INFP, I would consider not moving forward in a relationship. Of course back when my father met my mother I don't think he knew anything about MBTI.

Surely your retort will be "But if you have a sexual attraction to them it might become a long-term relationship..." "Why would you limit yourself..." "Listen to your heart..."

Perhaps, but I think I'd move along, knowing the struggles of irrationality that lie ahead.

No, I think I understand. I was just pointing out the obvious. And I dislike INFPs being thrown into a category of hopeless, impractical, illogical people. It's like saying all INTJs are ruthless, impossible, cold, heartless, and never illogical. Which is obviously not true.

For me, I'd have hard time with somebody just like my Dad. He's the ISTJ, and though I love him dearly, and know that he loves me more than I probably can imagine the depth of ... we butt heads on SO many things and our communication is horrible. So I think, like you, if a potential boyfriend tested ISTJ and showed signs of being like my dad in that way, I'd move on, regardless of the so-called "chemistry" between us.

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Old 07-28-2008, 09:54 PM   #61
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Yes, it can work, and has many times before.
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Old 07-28-2008, 10:17 PM   #62
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  Originally Posted by Daimon
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Daimon added to this post, 7 minutes and 13 seconds later...

It's not that he is indecisive, i dont think he is ....Rain, it just seems that he is very passionate with this concept of Union that to me smacks of a Heathcliffe- Catherine union ala Wuthering Heights (Emily Bronte). You are correct with the general description - it is his intellect , rhetoric, brilliance and intuit that i am very drawn to - and i am sad to admit that your use of "grate" is a bullseye with what i have been feeling.

Is it innate generally, for INTJ's to be fierce about space and personal boundaries?

absolutely. intjs love their personal space. i hate people intruding in on me uninvited. i choose when i want to see others.

intjs also have a great depth of feeling. its just not easily apparent as with infps who have their feelings written all over in a very apparent way. infps also need to be together all the time, whereas intjs need independence in relationships. i think that's another reason why the pairing isn't usually successful.

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Old 07-28-2008, 10:21 PM   #63
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  Originally Posted by curiousjane
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So I think, like you, if a potential boyfriend tested ISTJ and showed signs of being like my dad in that way, I'd move on, regardless of the so-called "chemistry" between us.

Yeah, I mean it's pretty ruthless to have to make a determination like this, but isn't this what learning about MBTI is about? Why else study MBTI and post on a forum all day if you don't use it?

I guess what I'm saying is it would be a shame to fall physically for someone, only to discover 10 years down the road that it doesn't work. Especially if you had signs it may not work when you began the relationship. The personality will pretty much always be there, but the physical attraction may wane. What was once a hot little number, may morph into an amoeba-shaped ghastly beast in 10 years.

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Old 07-28-2008, 10:32 PM   #64
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  Originally Posted by rain
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infps also need to be together all the time, whereas intjs need independence in relationships. i think that's another reason why the pairing isn't usually successful.

This is not true of me. While yes, quality time is one of my primary love languages, sometimes that includes quality time APART as well.

I like spending time in my head, and get irritated at those that won't let me have it.

  Originally Posted by INTJoe
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I just meant knowing now what I do about INFPs, had I met one that I was sexually attracted to, then subsequently had them test INFP, I would consider not moving forward in a relationship. Of course back when my father met my mother I don't think he knew anything about MBTI.

This makes perfect sense to me. Our relationships with our parents play a huge role in the type of person we either are or are NOT attracted to. You do not speak for all INTJs, but you certainly do speak for yourself.

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Old 07-28-2008, 10:41 PM   #65
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  Originally Posted by Udog
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While yes, quality time is one of my primary love languages, sometimes that includes quality time APART as well.

I like spending time in my head, and get irritated at those that won't let me have it.

Thinking of the INFP I know, it still seems consistent to me. The inner life of the mind is a pretty big deal for them too, right?

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Old 07-28-2008, 10:56 PM   #66
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My dad is an INTJ and my mom is an INFP. They have been married for 25 years. It's hard being one of their children to really look at them objectively, from the outside, to see how their relationship really is. My mom was married twice, for no more than a year, before she met my dad at age 26, my dad was 29. The thing my mom really liked about my dad, which apparently set him apart from all the other men in her life, is that he made her laugh - and he still does to. I think they are best friends first and lovers second and they aren't really touchy-feelly, at least as long as I can remember. I suppose this is because they are both intuitive and don't necessarily need to be constantly touching each other. My dad can be insensitive to my mom sometimes by just being his INTJ self, but my mom can also be emotional for no reason and never make up her mind.

A common conversation they will always have, yet they enjoy, is deciding what to do. To the observer from the outside, in this case me, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but they both get a kick out of it - I suppose because they love each other. My dad will ask my mom what she would like to do for the evening. He's decisive and wants to make plans to do whatever they agree to do. My mom will say, for example, she would like to see a movie. My dad will ask her what movie she would like to see and will start naming movies from the newspaper. As he's naming movies from the newspaper I can see my moms emotions playing with her and she begins to have a frustrated look on her face. My dad will notice this to and ask her if she really wants to see a movie? She will then say she doesn't know. My dad will say, "But you just said you wanted to see a movie." My mom will moan, "I know, but I don't feel like it now." This may go on back and forth for twenty minutes some times until a decision is finally made on what to do. AND they both enjoy it. I don't understand it, but they do.

If you think about it, it is said that the ENFP is the best match for an INTJ. Doesn't quite make sense to me because ENFP's, although fun and attractive people to be around, tend to be bundles of energy and exhausting after a while. Remove the E and put in the I it seems you have a perfect match.
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:36 PM   #67
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  Originally Posted by rain
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absolutely. intjs love their personal space. i hate people intruding in on me uninvited. i choose when i want to see others.

intjs also have a great depth of feeling. its just not easily apparent as with infps who have their feelings written all over in a very apparent way. infps also need to be together all the time, whereas intjs need independence in relationships. i think that's another reason why the pairing isn't usually successful.

To All,
Being new to this forum and the MBTI typing I am astounded at the pearls of experience and real life wisdom that you are all sharing. My INFP has cut off all ties with me: having had the experience of knowing him intuitively, i am now confronted with his dark Heathcliffe side. His Empathy, Creativity and Vision has the alternate ego of Rigidity and Fierce Logic that i can only describe as black and white, when it comes to what he passionately, infernally believes in. Or rather i should say, FEELS.

I am currently very shaken. The rational side of me is saying that I am romanticizing an encounter that, with current technology and e-communication, is trivial in the grand scheme of things. I have never even met my INFP. But the connection of our intuit, and my Fi (as you all mention here) .....is ineffable. Whether it is typical of INTJ, or just my own character, I am someone who is accepting of differences (i may not be happy about it, but i will acknowledge differences because i hate being the same or agreeing to everything for the sake of being part of the herd) -- my INFP could not come to terms with my longing for my own reverie, my dealing with my own shadows on my own terms. He could not understand my point that true intimacy can only come about with respect for autonomy. I guarded my boundaries fiercely, only to maintain a point of individuality, and i messaged him in a mix of anger and decisiveness. I tried to be firm but gentle in the end of my missive, hoping that the empath in him, though wounded, would still come to me in acceptance. But he tacitly ended our encounter bleakly, which is in such contradistinction to how he wore his feelings, perceptions bare to me when we connected.

Sigh. i know. One of you will say, in not too many words "Get over it". I will, and i will move on and learn and grow.

Through him though, i learned about MBTI. and i find myself here baring pieces of myself to you all.

Regardless of type, we are all unique. Learning of these categories has helped me understand myself (and i hope i can apply it to the people I know) and has lead me now to creative pursuits and new experiences such as this forum.

Whew. I hope i am not being too longwinded. (Give the currently depressed INTJ a break :-))





Daimon added to this post, 9 minutes and 34 seconds later...

  Originally Posted by curiousjane
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The danger lies in maturity and ability to seek balance, common sense, and personal growth. If you have these things, no matter your type, you will better yourself. If you DON'T do these things, no matter your type, you will irritate others and flounder in life. ..... My point is that even within types there a huge variation on the theme. More mature people will always be better in a relationship than lesser mature people.......In the end, all I can say is: watch your love interest carefully, measure him/her against your standards, listen to your heart in matters that aren't deal-breakers, solicit the advice of trusted friends/family, and choose wisely. And then, be ready to SACRIFICE for your chosen mate.

If you do ... your chances of true happiness and compatibility are much higher.

Curious Jane, whether it is you as an INFP or simply just you....i am appeased by your words. One thing that my INFP and I shared was the perrenial need to pursue personal growth and balance. We mirrored each others Truths in this sense. But my standards, and my heartspeaks, eventually told me to guard myself. Some of his intensity, seemed to be on the border of..UnHealth....it may only really be his Passion for Company...then again.....it could also have been my own Fears of being completely known and Bare to someone who matched my introspection, introvertedness and intuit.

I guess, I am simply not Catherine to his Heathcliffe. (which makes me think....Bronte's Heathcliffe was probably INFP eh? what of the fictional Catherine?)

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Old 07-29-2008, 12:02 AM   #68
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I personally just hate INFPs more than any other type probably. They do not have the charm of a clueless extraverted chick that ENFP has to make up for the all the constant frustration. I am quite strong in all four letters though, so others might be more tolerant... Or have just never talked to a true INFP for a very long time, unlike myself.
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Old 07-29-2008, 12:06 AM   #69
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  Originally Posted by OneHertz
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I personally just hate INFPs more than any other type probably. They do not have the charm of a clueless extraverted chick that ENFP has to make up for the all the constant frustration. I am quite strong in all four letters though, so others might be more tolerant... Or have just never talked to a true INFP for a very long time, unlike myself.

"Hate" is a strong word. I'd be careful how you use it. "Hate" is also so extreme that it almost becomes as strong as "love".

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Old 07-29-2008, 02:00 AM   #70
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  Originally Posted by OneHertz
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I personally just hate INFPs more than any other type probably. They do not have the charm of a clueless extraverted chick that ENFP has to make up for the all the constant frustration. I am quite strong in all four letters though, so others might be more tolerant... Or have just never talked to a true INFP for a very long time, unlike myself.

Ouch. Though I want to take this personally, I won't. I recognize you're just voicing what's on your mind.

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Old 07-29-2008, 08:49 AM   #71
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  Originally Posted by OneHertz
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I personally just hate INFPs more than any other type probably. They do not have the charm of a clueless extraverted chick that ENFP has to make up for the all the constant frustration. I am quite strong in all four letters though, so others might be more tolerant... Or have just never talked to a true INFP for a very long time, unlike myself.

Hopefully you realize this is a very subjective and emotional opinion, as you state it here. Add some objectivity to it, and your post may offer value by showing some of the pitfalls that need to be addressed between the INTJ and INFP.

In other words, care to explain why you hate INFPs so?

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Old 07-29-2008, 12:50 PM   #72
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I had an INFP friend for 8 (eight!) years and we spent an obscene amount of time together. We initially started hanging out due to shared interests and the friendship went off from there. This person had absolutely no logic and when I commented on how obscene some of his statements are (with logical reasoning behind what I am saying) he would get all emotional and defensive about it and piss me off even further to the point where I can not longer formulate clear thoughts in my head and my attitude towards him is just a loud scream in my head.

This was not so bad for the first few years, back when I did not really care about him and did not want to "improve" him. When he stated some of his "theories" (he thinks he is more aware when he is drunk to this day) I would just laugh and let it go. After a little while I got a little tired of being assosciated with him so I attempted to make him a little bit less hopeless. At that point he started taking everything I say as critisizm and begun giving me aggressive answers towards everything I say. Combined with him being insecure to begin with, this made him even MORE illogical (if that was even possible) and pissed me off further. The relationship was basically just spiralling out of control.

Another thing about him that bugged me greatly is that he "truly" had absolutely no care for money or any material things. A lot of people will say that they don't either but that is lies 95% of the times or more. I have never met anyone with less care than him. He is in his 20s now and is still working at borderline minimum wage jobs and eating frozen food every day. What pisses me off is that he does not think there is anything wrong with that! My family is very high status and I have offered to hook him up with a good job if he just took some effort to learn something, but he never did. He attends college now (the program he picked is worthless though), due to the pressure I put on him. He failed high school two years in a row because of how little he cared about everything, but his relationships with his friends. Now, I am exactly the opposite of him so we did not work well on that aspect either.

I could probably keep on going for many pages but I have to get back to work as lunch time is now over.
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:24 PM   #73
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A) Each person finds success and happiness through different paths perhaps his carefree life makes him happy.

B) Many INFP's manage to become functioning members of society even with our struggles with consistency and attention span.

You can't judge every INFP by your interactions with one. Perhaps your friends lifestyle and yours did not mesh but that does not mean that there aren't other INFP's out there that you might connect with...
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:58 PM   #74
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Well, OneHertz, I can see now why you said you can't stand INFPs. I'd probably feel the same way if I was confronted with similar behavior from a friend. That guy needs to grow up.

Sounds like the turning point in your friendship was when you tried to "improve" him.

I've heard this is the difficulty with the INFP/INTJ pairing, whether as friends or in a dating relationship. In Socionics (which I'm dubious about), INTJ = INTp and INFP = INFj, with supposed "Relations of Benefit" ... very far down their chart of ideal pairings. It claims that we both see each other as intriguing, but we then try to "fix" the parts that aren't quite up to par, and get on each other's nerves. Could be true. Certainly seems that way in your case.

Yet I still maintain, like Antares said, that any two mature individuals with the desire to make a relationship work CAN make that relationship work.

This is a bit off topic ... but what you wrote seems to indicate that your friend was immature, lazy, unmotivated, socially awkward, defensive, and overly opinionated. These are negative traits, to be sure. But the way you recalled your interactions seems to indicate that you were condescending, forceful, irritated, judgmental, and elitist. Also negative traits.

I can see why you parted ways. All those traits being thrown into the pot of friendship would certainly sour the relationship. You should have both reevaluated your circumstances, if you wanted to become stronger friends, and then dealt with the issues between you. He needed to shape up; you needed to cool down.

[RANT]

This isn't about you, though. What frustrates me is knowing that too many people give up on relationships just because they take work. Doesn't ANYTHING worth doing/having/valuing? We're so self-centered, as a society. And I am, myself, a sad example of selfishness! I think introverts deal with it more than anyone ... we're so inward ... that it takes us too long to figure out that we need to focus outward, too.

Nobody's perfect. But those who admit their flaws, work on self-improvement, and deal with others with a bit of grace, humility, and patience ... are on their way to having better relationships, in general!

[/RANT]





curiousjane added to this post, 10 minutes and 47 seconds later...

  Originally Posted by Minxz
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You can't judge every INFP by your interactions with one. Perhaps your friends lifestyle and yours did not mesh but that does not mean that there aren't other INFP's out there that you might connect with...

I agree with your statement, Minxz. The behavior of one does not define the behavior of the group, and there are probably are plenty of INFPs that would not typify this behavior. But OneHertz's statement of dislike, while vehement (and one that took me off-guard), was not directed at us (or at least I hope not!). He/she had a pretty bad experience with an immature person of our type.

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Old 07-29-2008, 02:53 PM   #75
OneHertz
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MBTI: ISTJ
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You can't say I haven't tried to work at it. It did last 8 years afterall.

Some of his characteristics I do see to be due to him being an INFP and others are just unique to him. I see INFPs to have very little care about materialism in general, and I also see them to be extremely defensive and illogical. I know only one other INFP though so I guess I may be misinformed, but until I am proven wrong in real life I will keep thinking like that. I get along with the second INFP I know OK, as long as we do not spend an overly long time together. I think this is because that INFP is female. The kinds of behaviour INFPs exhibit is more associated with females in my head so it frustrates me much, MUCH less when I encounter it. Instead of getting angry I see her as something I just want to protect and hug and that is rather different. My critisisms are also softer because they are directed at a female (that is how my brain works anyhow). Once again, I think that occurance is a gender thing (I am male).
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