[Uytuun]

I personally don't have Vista, still using XP, but a friend of mine bought a new laptop and it operates on Vista...I used it once or twice very briefly and hated it because of the lack of control, stupid resource-hogging visual effects and patronising attitude towards to user. And that was only my very superficial first impression...what else sucks?
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[Erika Redmark]

I think the more salient question is "why does Windows suck?"
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I personally don't have Windows, but that's the impression I get from school computers and other people's computers I've used very briefly and hated. Everything about the Mac OS's makes more sense to me.

[HackerX]

If enough people say it sucks, without ever actually using it, eventually it's got to suck for real right???

People can't stand change.

IMO, Vista > XP. and I'll stick with it.

[Jakalwarrior]

Mostly its just slower XP, with a new theme pack installed, crap ton of processes... err I mean new features, that the power user or gamer will just disable to "Try" and get some performance back. Whats to love? It does have some new features but I haven't run across any of them that I found useful in the months ive been using it. Usually I just try to figure out how to disable or remove them.
The other dissappointment is DX10 and the fact that you are forced to buy Vista to get it. Not that DX10 is spectacular either. Its supposed to be able to do advanced effects with less performance hit than DX9, but in general its slower, even when forcing DX9 to do those things.
Not to mention games keep hyping "DX10 effects" when they are really just DX9 effects, and the general populace doesnt know better. The geeks who do know and see the false advertising / bullshit get pissed off.



Soft particles, works in DX9. HDR, works in DX9, etc... Crysis is one example of the BS. It is still the best looking game ever, and it looks 99% identical in DX9 or DX10.


Ive been using Vista Ultimate for ~5 months and am a gamer with a DX10 card.

[JILebedev]

Well, you pretty much summed it all up. Windows is generally geared to cozy house wives without any actual knowledge of computers and who'd rather call the geek squad than actually try to fix problems themselves. And don't even get me started on the false advertising of overrated features (transparent windows, yay) Microsoft so often employs.

That said, I use XP myself, though I plan on switching to something more customizable/minimalistic/streamlined in the future.

[Aronnax]

Vista is windows ME part 2. It added a lot of system load and offers very little in terms of upgrades over the previous generation.

Vista wouldn't have gotten such a bad rap if Microsoft hadn't decided to help Intel sell a bunch of old processors by stamping them "vista capable". Thousands of computers were sold to unwitting consumers who opted for Vista only to find out they had to use a minimal version of Vista that ran slow.

[bubbles]

Vista is very bloated and does not offer much more than XP, but it costs more. It is also much slower than XP. With increasing competition that costs less (linux), Windows will need to improve if it wants to justify its price.

[Phrixos]

Windows XP is a very good windows operating system, though like all other operating systems it has its weak points. Overall a good operating system.

Vista uses too much resources for the functionality it provides. Realistically to run Vista Ultimate, you need a "PC" thats hardware is more specific to server builds eg 4 gig of ram should run Vista pretty well, but what home user needs that??

This and the file system structure are two main negative topics of Vista at the moment.

Personally I hate the Vista Security Police, every time you do something administrative it asks you if you were the person who initiated the request....every single time stops the pc and asks you if you did it.

Another personal problem i have is that when trying to play music and videos on vista, the system manages the resources inefficiantly and resulted in clipping in audio and video lag.

I now use ubuntu and I have not had to restart for 7 months. Let alone had any problems whatsoever. The only problems I had was that of making programs i needed work and those problems have fixes.

The current fix for vista is unfortunately a roll back to XP.

[HackerX]

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Windows XP is a very good windows operating system, though like all other operating systems it has its weak points. Overall a good operating system.

From a technical point of view, XP is worse than Vista as far as operating systems go.

	Vista uses too much resources for the functionality it provides. Realistically to run Vista Ultimate, you need a "PC" thats hardware is more specific to server builds eg 4 gig of ram should run Vista pretty well, but what home user needs that??

So you're telling me that my system is running slow??? I never noticed.... I certainly didn't upgrade anything in the switch from XP to Vista. Guess I should go out and by another 2 gig or Ram... but wait... no 32bit operating system can handle that anyway???

	This and the file system structure are two main negative topics of Vista at the moment.

FS is exactly the same as XP?

	Personally I hate the Vista Security Police, every time you do something administrative it asks you if you were the person who initiated the request....every single time stops the pc and asks you if you did it.

So turn it off? I login as root in linux to get around the same problem. Most of those prompts are because of poorly written programs. But that's a Vista problem right?

	Another personal problem i have is that when trying to play music and videos on vista, the system manages the resources inefficiantly and resulted in clipping in audio and video lag.

On board sound card chip on your motherboard? Where's your proof that vista is doing things inefficiantly? or that it's even vista that's handling it? Video just gets palmed off to a codec, which would be the same as the XP version.

	I now use ubuntu and I have not had to restart for 7 months. Let alone had any problems whatsoever. The only problems I had was that of making programs i needed work and those problems have fixes.

You've not had any problems... but you've had problems getting things to work??

[Phrixos]

I conceded that I used the wrong word for File system and was not what i meant.

But due to your assuming nature ie:

Vista uses too much resources for the functionality it provides. Realistically to run Vista Ultimate, you need a "PC" thats hardware is more specific to server builds eg 4 gig of ram should run Vista pretty well, but what home user needs that??

So you're telling me that my system is running slow??? I never noticed.... I certainly didn't upgrade anything in the switch from XP to Vista. Guess I should go out and by another 2 gig or Ram... but wait... no 32bit operating system can handle that anyway???

It is not worth discussing an issue with someone who interprets a general statement as a specific and personal one.

Learn to converse via citation rather than assumption. I would have been happy to cite everything I wrote and withdraw anything I could not. But immediately you start acting like it's a contest.

Enjoy your computer buddy.

[HackerX]

Start citing. If you're going to make a bunch of personal claims, you're going to get a response with a bunch of personal claims.

[Phrixos]

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	The 64-bit editions of Windows Vista—available for all editions of Windows Vista except Starter—deliver premier performance, reliability, and security, providing you access to the next generation of PC innovations.

By the way i meant the way Vista Indexes on the FS. And its search function.

	Originally Posted by Phrixos View Post Windows XP is a very good windows operating system, though like all other operating systems it has its weak points. Overall a good operating system.

	From a technical point of view, XP is worse than Vista as far as operating systems go.

As far as that point goes, I don't really think that warrants your response. Since all I said was XP is a very good windows operating system and did not mention vista.

	Personally I hate the Vista Security Police, every time you do something administrative it asks you if you were the person who initiated the request....every single time stops the pc and asks you if you did it.

	So turn it off? I login as root in linux to get around the same problem. Most of those prompts are because of poorly written programs. But that's a Vista problem right?

As far as this goes, Vista security police ask you for not just what Linux would ask you to be SU for, it prompts you at every conceivable security issue. Turn it off, would have, if I wasn't unimpressed to the point that I wanted it gone.
I mentioned this because it is on topic and an issue I have with vista, we are not discussing how to fix them, just what issues people have with it.


As for the audio comment. Video and Audio runs perfectly with the same hardware setup using ubuntu. I find that to be acceptable, and now that it works... no more need be said.

And the comment on me not having any problems on ubuntu, I admit that sentence was constructed poorly. The point should be as clear as day though. The only issues I have come across in ubuntu are things like, getting windows programs to work under wine, and compatibility workarounds. No resource hogging, no audio clipping.

[HackerX]

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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Eh? What's this got to do with anything? Yeah, there's a 64 bit version, like any 64 bit operation system, it takes a bit more power to run compared to any 32 bit version.

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	By the way i meant the way Vista Indexes on the FS. And its search function.

Hmmm, most systems do some form of FS indexing these days. Quick search tells me that people are complaining about it. Never noticed that, but I do notice how it works when I use the search.

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As far as that point goes, I don't really think that warrants your response. Since all I said was XP is a very good windows operating system and did not mention vista.

This is a thread bitching about Vista, your comment is automatically going to be assumed to be a comparision with Vista, otherwise it should be in a seperate thread about how good XP is.

As for my point, The changes/rewrite to the Vista kernel was a "good thing".

Here's a nice overview without going into the really technical stuff

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Read the bit about prefetch and half the reason people complain that vista is a resource hog. There are varieties of prefetch for linux now too... "When linux does it, it's OMG that's amazing, works so well. When Windows does it. OMG Vista is a resource hog".

If you had mentioned that the prefetch doesn't work so well for systems < 1gig, I'd have understood.

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As far as this goes, Vista security police ask you for not just what Linux would ask you to be SU for, it prompts you at every conceivable security issue. Turn it off, would have, if I wasn't unimpressed to the point that I wanted it gone. I mentioned this because it is on topic and an issue I have with vista, we are not discussing how to fix them, just what issues people have with it.

For anything setup/config that is included with Vista, the prompts seemed no worse than what I've experienced in Linux. Sure there are a bunch of programs (non Vista) that were crap in this regard. Part of the reason changes were made to the kernel as mentioned previously was that these programs were doing bad things, and running with far to many privileges. People bitched, "I can't believe Vista has all these warning messages when this other program from this other company does something, omg wtf Vista is crap"

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	As for the audio comment. Video and Audio runs perfectly with the same hardware setup using ubuntu. I find that to be acceptable, and now that it works... no more need be said.

And I'm telling you that Vista itself doesn't handle these. The only problem Vista has in this regard at the moment is that there is no direct hardware access to sound (DirectSound from DirectX) like XP (& DX) had. Lots of game companies are bitching about this.

	Originally Posted by Phrixos To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And the comment on me not having any problems on ubuntu, I admit that sentence was constructed poorly. The point should be as clear as day though. The only issues I have come across in ubuntu are things like, getting windows programs to work under wine, and compatibility workarounds. No resource hogging, no audio clipping.

As a power user of linux, I'm used to seeing all the unpolished programs, crash repeatedly, not work as they should. There was a version of Amarok released that was notorious for it.

All operating systems have there problems... but experience as shown me that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, it's just a different shade.

[capricornintj]

	Originally Posted by Uytuun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I used it once or twice very briefly and hated it because of the lack of control, stupid resource-hogging visual effects and patronising attitude towards to user.

I disabled the Aero features (who really needs flying windows?) and found Vista to be reasonably stable (for a Microsoft product).

[Americano]

The government hasn't made the switch from XP to Vista yet for their office PCs; that might say something.

[HackerX]

	Originally Posted by Muse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The government hasn't made the switch from XP to Vista yet for their office PCs; that might say something.

Ha, ever worked in a large company? Mine made the switch from 2000 to XP at new years this year. That's the IT department...

All it says is the cost of changing those many computers and supporting something different is too large to deal with at the moment. It's a little different to upgrading your home computer...

[Tenacious B]

	Originally Posted by Muse To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The government hasn't made the switch from XP to Vista yet for their office PCs; that might say something.

That could say a lot of things. Price, time/effort to switch, and teaching users to use it are all reasons not to change, as is being lazy. I think training all the government workers would probably be the hardest task.

But like the government, I'm waiting for Microsoft to get a service pack or two out before I switch. My university sells Vista Ultimate upgrade to students for $20, so I got it and will wait to install at some point later (64bit AMD).

I had XP home edition when it was fairly new, and it sucked severely. I'm now with Pro with all the updates and service packs and it has been quite good.

[PRBori]

Lack of support for drivers not to mention an annoying interface and the amount of CPU power and memory need it make it a bad choice.

I worked for various gov companies and I wouldn't recommend it at all for it has too many issues.... and migrating to such will required migration of most of the equipment for there is not many drivers to support older equipment.

That said as someone that make recommendations, I personally would not recommend upgrading to VISTA anytime soon. More options and drivers and more powerful PCs are need it and that means replacing almost everything in a company. Not feasible for many who who have a tie IT budget and more important items to deal with. Besides Windows XP works just fine. All PCs coming with VISTA are downgraded to XP Pro or a purchase is made directly from the company with such option.

[HackerX]

Originally Posted by Tenacious B To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That could say a lot of things. Price, time/effort to switch, and teaching users to use it are all reasons not to change, as is being lazy. I think training all the government workers would probably be the hardest task. But like the government, I'm waiting for Microsoft to get a service pack or two out before I switch. My university sells Vista Ultimate upgrade to students for $20, so I got it and will wait to install at some point later (64bit AMD). I had XP home edition when it was fairly new, and it sucked severely. I'm now with Pro with all the updates and service packs and it has been quite good.

Ahhh you have to pay $20 for it? That sucks. My uni gives out copies of Vista Business for free to all the IT students. (XP pro was previously offered as well). It's pretty common for uni's to be partnered with microsoft to allow this.

[Vortex]

Originally Posted by Uytuun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I personally don't have Vista, still using XP, but a friend of mine bought a new laptop and it operates on Vista...I used it once or twice very briefly and hated it because of the lack of control, stupid resource-hogging visual effects and patronising attitude towards to user. And that was only my very superficial first impression...what else sucks? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

/delurk

Vista is a superior OS in terms of technical execution. It fixes a lot of the wrong backend problems that XP has.

However, for practical use, its slower at all levels, has DRM shenanigans at times, requires UAC to be disabled to keep sanity (years of work rendered useless by its zealotry), aero is slow for what it does. The problem with Vista is that for most users, its XP, but shiny. For power users (esp. power gamers) that loss of performance is a deal breaker. DX10 is a joke (don't even mention 10.1), they changed the way sound is executed (and broke $200 audio cards in the process) and the DRM shenanigans are as lame as ever.

So while Vista isn't bad, there isn't any really great reason to run out and switch. Vista 64 is actually the most compelling argument for vista, as it has much better driver support than XP 64. Overall, theres a reason to run either, so long as you chose the right argument for it.


-------

	Originally Posted by JILebedev
	Well, you pretty much summed it all up. Windows is generally geared to cozy house wives without any actual knowledge of computers and who'd rather call the geek squad than actually try to fix problems themselves. And don't even get me started on the false advertising of overrated features (transparent windows, yay) Microsoft so often employs.

Show me some false advertising of Aero please. Then show me how 3d desktop + transparency is bad. This alone saves you the 2d/3d context switch when alt-tabbing out of games, and looks a hell of a lot nicer than XP base (even w/o aero, vista is much more shiny). It doesn't really compare to Beryl, but then, nothing else does either.

As for your comments regarding House wives.... right. Theres no counter-argument as this is an ad hominem attack (housewives) and appeal to authority (the mac cult) than anything else. If anything, the OSX is the OS that is built for those who can't do anything on it. It works out of the box, is pretty, requires little user intervention and It hides everything it can from the user (just changing basic settings is a PITA).

Also - Geek Squad. Really? Your referencing that? Can we let cliche's die and ignore the stupid Best Buy support system please? Or are you going to tell me geeks drive around in new bugs now too and look like starving programmers (apparently we have nothing better to do than fix "house wives" windows problems
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)?


/relurk

[ShaiGar]

Because it isn't Linux

[Jakalwarrior]

I dont know about you guys but I still havent managed to get vista under 40 active processes and still have it functioning / safe (firewall + antivirus).
I had a vista theme pack installed on XP before I switched (even has transparency) so about the only thing I noticed while switching was reduced FPS in my favorite games (especially witcher), the annoying security features I had to disable, the massive number of processes I spent hours trimming to no avail, the difficulty of setting up simple file sharing, and the superfetch that was stressing my HD and Ram so I can load Opera in .5 seconds instead of 1 second. I havent really found a use for the 3d desktop thing yet either.

BTW, I disable file indexing in both XP and Vista. The faster file searching really isn't worth it to me.

[Lout]

My main issue with Vista (which I got with my laptop) is that all the programs I liked and used in XP were immediately rendered useless. Also, I'm simplistic by nature, so the Aero theme -- touted as one of the best reasons to go Vista -- didn't make much of a difference.

Granted, none of this was solved by moving to Linux but it certainly gave me a good excuse.

Oh, and it used to crash at the most inopportune moments.

[Phrixos]

HackerX,

You say all operating systems have problems, so, my question is why would you pay for an OS that obviously has faults when you can attain one to suit specific needs for free.

Vista does suck, it obviously works well for you. I happen to work at an ISP, and i do deal with support.

Vista problems dominate the support queue.

This is not due to the fact that people hear about problems and take on board the "vista sucks attitude", its because they are experiencing problems with vista. I've been here 10 months and I'm yet to hear about a unix machine breaking down that is less than 5 years old.

[integratedvelocity]

Vista + Securom= very bad
Vista + attempted Ubuntu installation = reinstall Vista and still have no Ubuntu

However, since the reinstallation, I have barely had any trouble at all. Partly because I chose exactly what I wanted to install and didn't have all the bloatware. I wouldn't know about the required hardware, since I bought a laptop that exceeds Vista recommendations