Marriage - Compliments

**ENFJFiona** · 11-02-2010, 03:31 AM

I have been reading the forum so I shall aim to be brief and to the point

- I am an ENFJ
- I have been married to an INTJ for 14 months
- I love this INTJ very much
- Some of our marriage has been good
- Much of our marriage has been painful
- We have begun a business and this process seems to be amplifying the issue of him rarely giving compliments and only speaking when he wants to show a fault in my logic
- I aim to see his comments as constructive but have become worn down by the lack of positives

I have asked my husband for encouragement and explained that although this may seem unnecessary, for me it is very important and will result in better marriage outcomes.

He stated last night that he does not think we are working and I am getting the impression that he wants to quit.

Help.

Please.

**Fishism** · 11-02-2010, 04:53 AM

Speaking as an INTJ who has had trouble with long term relationships my WHOLE life for the very reasons you list above, if you want your marriage and business to last, follow the following general rule about INTJs:

Of course, this is a generalization. Not all INTJ's are the same.

You may think they're negative. They're not. All they're doing is ignoring the positive because the positive isn't broken. We don't waste time on things that do not need to be fixed. For an INTJ, showing your wife affection borders on redundancy. He's married you for Pete's sake! How much more emotional reinforcement does a woman need? Yes, that is our attitude.

Actions speak louder than words. He's teamed up with you in many ways. This means something to him and should mean something to you. He's not going to shower you with reinforcement because there are more pressing issues. INTJ's do not lie well, do not fake things well and are rarely phoney, so he won't compliment you unless he feels it and means it.

Also, consider this following tool of "Positivity Measurement".

Let's say you have a scale from 1 to 10. 1 Being so negative you're suicidal and 10 being so positive you're delusional.

INTJ's are generally realists, so on this scale, they will sit somewhere from 4 to 6.
I'd wager money that you consider yourself an optimist, so you're up there at 7 or 8.
So, from your perch at 7, anything your husband says at 5, even if it's true will be below you on the positivity scale and you will see it as negative.

This will drive both of you crazy.

You say: "I love this INTJ very much"

If this is true, accept him for the INTJ he is, understand that he feels his actions and the fact that he's there with you everyday in both capacities speak loudly to him and only whisper to you.

If you require emotion and everyday to be Valentine's Day, you've chosen the wrong partner.

**themuzicman** · 11-02-2010, 04:55 AM

I think the first thing to keep in mind is that you're asking him to do something that is very foreign to him. As INTJs, we see process and outcome. That's how we operate. Doing and being the best and right is just SOP. Compliments are awkward for us.

And, unless we come to understand that we need to interact with others differently, this isn't going to come naturally. In fact, it's going to be very out of place for us.

Now, I assume he's more or less the same guy you married, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise to you.

I can imagine as an ENFJ that you're expressing your needs to him in a very "feely" way, that can come off as clingy and needy. Not sure if that's the case, but that's my impression with ENFJs. If that's the case, you're not helping things. Nothing will drive an INTJ nuts faster than clingy and needy. (Except maybe an ESFP, but I digress..)

My suggestion is to go buy the book "The Five Love Languages" and read it together. Or at least both of you should read it. And then talk about it. It presents a very good case for different people needing different expressions of love, and I think he'll pick up on that in his INTJ way.

I would start the discussion by discussing his love languages. I can almost guarantee that he'll be "Acts of Service" and/or "Physical touch." But have the discussion anyway. Then it will be your turn. Yes, verbal affirmation is one of them. Again, be careful not to come off as needy or clingy, but in a reasonable way express that, yes, this is your love language.

Then come to an agreement to work on expressing these things on a regular basis. And do your part.

And then have a little patience, let him learn. One thing that I think is healthy for INTJs is to take on the challenge to study and learn about their spouse. Learn what makes them tick. Experiment a little. (Yeah, that sounds creepy. It's OK.) You might try that sometime after the book: Challenge him to study you, to learn how you're different from him, and to learn how to make you purr.

And then step back and have a good time watching him do it.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-02-2010, 05:37 AM

Thanks heaps to both of you.

What you're saying makes total sense.

We discussed the concept of him telling me he loves me quite some time ago. He said to remember the conversation we were having at the time and know that he does - always - but will not often tell me. I took him at his word and I choose to believe he loves me, whether he says it much of not. It was good advice.

After reading what you have both said... I spose I need to trust him when he says that if he doesn't say anything then nothing is wrong. That is very difficult to believe but I am very willing to apply the same logic as I mentioned above and also consider what you have both said.

Prior to marriage I was very very sociable and caught up with large numbers of people every week. Since marraige, my husband has taken on his MBA and is doing brilliantly in the course but we are not able to socialise much at all. It became a source of stress and I asked if I could socialise with others more but he felt that I should be at home more as I did not look after myself properly and got too tired (typical ENFJ I spose). After much conversation he said I could socialise and he would be cool with it. I believed his body language on my return from outings suggested that he felt otherwise.

Should I simply believe that when he says I can go out... he means it. And to not interpret his body language as upset unless he tells me he's upset?

I recently asked him to give me permission but also encourage me to see my friends. Last night he expressed that as foolish and unacceptable as he was giving permission once and that was enough.

Having read what you have said and studied up on INTJ tendencies this afternoon would the following make sense

- I need social affirmation and need to make sure I do look after myself
- my husband has given me permission to go out so I should accept that and go out to get the positive comments that I need
- I should not see his negative body language as any message at all but realise it may be misinterpretation on my part and continue until my husband actually states that he is not happy with something?

My apologies for the length of the response and thank you for your advice - it has been invaluable.

---------- Post added 11-02-2010 at 05:00 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Fishism To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You may think they're negative. They're not. All they're doing is ignoring the positive because the positive isn't broken. We don't waste time on things that do not need to be fixed.

You make a very good and logical point. Does this mean that I should look for positive elsewhere... As I am self aware enough to know that such long periods of time without positive reinforcement is not healthy for my personality type.

**themuzicman** · 11-02-2010, 06:02 AM

INTJs are pretty straight forward, and even if we tell you something intending something else and you do what we said, for the most part, we're going to stand by our word.

That's one thing my wife does more than I like: She tried to "read into" what I'm saying or doing or look like or whatever, only to realize later that (once again) I meant what I said, and my body language had nothing to do with it.

As an INTJ male, I can tell you that if I'm ticked off or mad, and I say nothing is wrong, even if there is, that only means I need to be left alone to process. I would say in almost all circumstances (unless you think he's intentionally lying), what he says is what he wants.

I remember when we first had kids, I realized about 6 months into the first kid that I had to kick my wife out of the house to get some adult social time, because she needed it, so don't feel guilty about getting your additional social time from friends. Your husband will probably appreciate some alone time anyway.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-02-2010, 06:07 AM

	Originally Posted by Fishism To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You may think they're negative. They're not. All they're doing is ignoring the positive because the positive isn't broken. We don't waste time on things that do not need to be fixed.

You make a very good and logical point. Does this mean that I should look for positive elsewhere... As I am self aware enough to know that such long periods of time without positive reinforcement is not healthy for my personality type.

**Fishism** · 11-02-2010, 06:34 AM

The fact that you need to exercise your "E" by being social is something that we "I's" don't understand so much.

The fact that you "need" social affirmation to support your "F" is something that we "T's" don't understand so much.

You're not misinterpreting his negative body language. This situation annoys him and he doesn't understand your neediness. Yes, from our perspective, you ARE needy. You've somewhat stated this yourself by "go out to get the positive comments that I need."

I became uncomfortable and experienced negative body language just by reading that. That's not to say that it's not genuine and real for you, but for me, as an INTJ, it's a perpetual challenge that we cannot overcome.

He simply doesn't understand why you can't find enough personal validation in the organization that is your marriage. He thinks that because it's enough for him, why isn't it enough for you?

So yes, if you want your marriage to work, you're going to have to find another source for the esteem boost you need. He's working hard on his MBA and your joint business venture and piling the responsibility of building your self worth on him will simply be too much. He's not skilled in this area nor does he want to be.

**Malsqueek** · 11-02-2010, 08:22 AM

	Originally Posted by ENFJFiona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	After much conversation he said I could socialise and he would be cool with it. I believed his body language on my return from outings suggested that he felt otherwise. Should I simply believe that when he says I can go out... he means it. And to not interpret his body language as upset unless he tells me he's upset?

Hopefully I can shed a little light here.

MY wife and I are in a similar situation (married 5 together 10). I decided to go get my BA when I was 27 and have been in class or at work for the better part of the last 3 years. This gets in the way of planning or doing anything of any sort, really. From my standpoint, I know my wife needs to go out and see her friends, and often I would like to join them but it is not something that I have the time/capacity to do just then. I'm glad she has fun, and know she needs the time out, but when I've been beating over books for 5 hours and she gets home from a happy hour with people I haven't seen in months, it's hard not to be a little disappointed for myself about it. Additionally, I really only get one or two evenings a week with my wife doing anything at all, and when those coincide with the days she feels she needs to go out, it is pretty hard for me.

I imagine, with classes and your new business, that your husband is pretty laser focused on those things, and takes very little time for leisure of any real sort. I'm sure that as he says, he is ok with your going out to engage in the social activities that you need to be happy. Just try to include some quality "just with him" time doing something that is not work or school, and only involves the two of you.

**brettx8** · 11-02-2010, 08:46 AM

***Oops - I didn't notice the above post mentioning the same book as I posted. But anyway, it underscores the point.***

Just an idea: have you read "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman? The basic premise of the book is that we all have a preferred way in which we express and receive love.

If you both complete the questionnaire, and discover your "love languages", you can *deliberately* express love in ways that are most meaningful to your partner.

For example, my INTJ partner likes 'Words of Affirmation' (not as much as an F would, but still). I'm an INTJ too, so I don't naturally use words to express my affection. But because I know she appreciates words, I can selectively express my love in words when necessary.

The advantage of acquainting your partner with the book (or just the concept) is that it gives him a 'model' with which to understand your emotional needs. It may not be perfect, but it is effective.

**StormRider** · 11-02-2010, 08:55 AM

Some great advice here that I totally agree with.

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	My suggestion is to go buy the book "The Five Love Languages" and read it together. Or at least both of you should read it. And then talk about it. It presents a very good case for different people needing different expressions of love, and I think he'll pick up on that in his INTJ way.

YES. Do this. Seriously, that book made a huge difference in my marriage. I am an "Acts of Service" person and hubby is mainly "Words of Affirmation". So when he would say "I love you" but then sat down to watch football while I cleaned the whole kitchen, it seemed like he was lying to me (ie - if you REALLY loved me, wouldn't you help wash the dishes?) On the other hand, when I wash and iron all his clothes but don't actually say out loud that I love him, he thinks I'm withholding affection when - to me - it seems obvious that I love him because I am taking care of him and doing things to ease his daily burdens and responsibilities.

I'm glad she has fun, and know she needs the time out, but when I've been beating over books for 5 hours and she gets home from a happy hour with people I haven't seen in months, it's hard not to be a little disappointed for myself about it. Additionally, I really only get one or two evenings a week with my wife doing anything at all, and when those coincide with the days she feels she needs to go out, it is pretty hard for me.

This is an astute observation by Malsqueek, and I've seen the same thing in myself. Actually, this probably explains the body language you are concerned about. Yes, he said you should go out and have fun and yes, he meant it. However, he is probably a little jealous that you get to go relax and unwind and he doesn't, particularly when he would like to spend time with you. Just make sure you get quality time with him and he'll be fine. Personally, I enjoy the downtime with a book every now and then!

Hang in there... INTJs aren't quitters, so it's very likely that he wants to make this work more than you could ever imagine.

**paperclip** · 11-03-2010, 02:20 AM

Why do you feel as if you need to ask for permission to go out? Is this a result of your need for affirmation, or signs of an overly controlling/manipulative spouse? If it stems from your need to feel affirmed, you should seek affirmation of this kind else where (friends, family, etc). Nothing seems more tedious to me than a person asking their spouse, or me, if they should do x, y, z tiny little thing. Soy latte or vanilla latte? oh no! This reads as a mark of insecurity to me and I would likely stay away from such a person. If you need attention be secure enough in your own desires to seek out outlets for your E personality.

His slouchy attitude upon your return may be you misreading his neutrality (ie acceptance of your going out) as negative. Is it possible that you want a stronger reaction from him because you wish he wished he was going out with you? Another possibility is that he actually is negative about your going out. If that's the case, the root of the cause may be in jealousy or plainly selfish behavior. BUT you must take him at his word if he appears negative, but says nothing is wrong. Don't pry into something that's not broken.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-03-2010, 02:45 AM

Just hopped online again and want to say thanks for all the advice. There are some real nuggets in the statements that have been made.

I like to summarise things so please let me know if anyone can find fault or an area requiring correction from the following.

- I need to look at myself to ascertain the reasons behind my insecurities - the causes of my choice to ask permission. My guess - trying to be submissive and respectful has gone a little far in my case
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- I have permission to socialise, I have a need to socialise - I should socialise
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- I should continue in my actions and trust that my husband will note if somthing seems broken.

- I should show more respect for the huge efforts that my husband is putting into job, study, business and working on our marriage.

- I should dust off our 3 copies of "the five love languages" and ask my husband (again) if he will read it with me (or even just by himself)
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Basically - He is an amazing guy and I'm really enjoying hearing the advice that you folk are giving coz I feel like I'm receiving a lot of insight into how he ticks. I feel much more informed.

Thanks all.

**zibber** · 11-03-2010, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by ENFJFiona
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I have been reading the forum so I shall aim to be brief and to the point

- I am an ENFJ
- I have been married to an INTJ for 14 months
- I love this INTJ very much
- Some of our marriage has been good
- Much of our marriage has been painful
- We have begun a business and this process seems to be amplifying the issue of him rarely giving compliments and only speaking when he wants to show a fault in my logic
- I aim to see his comments as constructive but have become worn down by the lack of positives

I have asked my husband for encouragement and explained that although this may seem unnecessary, for me it is very important and will result in better marriage outcomes.

He stated last night that he does not think we are working and I am getting the impression that he wants to quit.

Help.

Please.

This is really very typical, especially in this configuration.

Me, although I am aware of this problem in my own relationship, still find myself having an easier time pointing out mistakes. I am willing to modify my outward behavior, though. You should find out if he is.

The business is probably a bad idea. I shudder at the thought alone.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-03-2010, 04:24 AM

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The business is probably a bad idea. I shudder at the thought alone.

Man that sounds a tad harsh. What if I run the business and my hubby acts as a consultant?

**zibber** · 11-03-2010, 04:34 AM

I don't know. What are his preferences?

**Mogura** · 11-03-2010, 04:37 AM

I'm curious, did none of these issues come out while you two were dating, or was it that the issues came out and you just swept them under the proverbial carpet (and now they're once again rearing their ugly head)?

When you say you are getting the impression he wants to quit, do you mean the business or the marriage?

For me, complements are a no-brainer. But the whole clinginess/reassurance cycle is something I tend to trip up on...

**ENFJFiona** · 11-03-2010, 05:02 AM

At the moment he is not sure of his preferences, but true to his type, he has contacted me today to state that he is not quitting the marriage. He just needs another 7 days of silence. I can and will give him that space.

Regarding the business - I have decided to put it on hold until we can have a discussion in a week. At this point in time he has rightly said that we should not do the business together unless we can find a way of communicating more appropriately.

You are right on the clinginess. Funny thing is - I'm not normally a clingy person but whilst dating my husband noted that I spent a lot of time with other people and noted a concern that I would not have enough time for him. I have therefore cancelled almost all social interaction with others for the first year of our marriage to show him that he is is priority number 1. This has backfired badly and now I must seem quite clingy.

**ElstonGunn** · 11-03-2010, 05:05 AM

	Originally Posted by ENFJFiona To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Man that sounds a tad harsh. What if I run the business and my hubby acts as a consultant?

I was thinking something similar to what Zibber said. Running a business and working on a graduate degree at the same time? Jesus, why doesn't he try to negotiate a peace agreement in the Mideast, find a cure for cancer, and solve the world's energy problems while he's at it? It sounds like you're married to a professional Superman, or at least somebody who might want to be one. Superman is great, but the main problem with him is that he's too busy saving the world to pay any real attention to Lois Lane.

If he seems short or irritated with you, it might be because he's got a lot to do. I'm not saying this is right, but to a certain extent, it's easier to piss off your wife than it is to flunk an exam or run your business into the ground. Of the three, getting your forgiveness is often the easiest repair job. ...At least the first few times, or if you're the kind of person who needs his permission to see your friends (really?). If you're not even comfortable going out for a coffee with your friends, then you're probably not likely to walk out on the marriage, either.

I'm getting the impression (which could be wrong, of course) that the whole situation is, at its core, all about him. Why is he upset? What can you do to accommodate him? What is he thinking about the relationship? If he's having doubts, how can they be alleviated? Those kinds of things. There's a certain level of admirability in being selfless like that, but is it really the way you want your marriage to function? Nobody can hold it against you if you do want it that way, but it's probably worth thinking about.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-03-2010, 05:06 AM

And yes - these issues did come up when we were dating but I was advised that although his regular need for retreat and silence and his lack of interest in complimenting caused me frustration, there were so so so many things about his integrity, honesty, forthrightness and many other admirable character traits that not marrying him would have been foolish.

He remains a faithful, loving and loyal husband. We have dealt with conflict quite well and up until this time we have only had big trouble with silence, retreating and a lack of positive encouragement. I now feel I am learning more about his personality and can alter my approach and expectations.

---------- Post added 11-03-2010 at 04:11 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by ElstonGunn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It sounds like you're married to a professional Superman, or at least somebody who might want to be one. Superman is great, but the main problem with him is that he's too busy saving the world to pay any real attention to Lois Lane.

Well he does have the matching underpants and I was thinking of getting him a cape
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Sad thing is that recently I have felt like his Kriptonite.

You folk have given me some great advice and perspective and i have been expecting way too much. I'll calm down, give him some space and then address any remaining concerns in a week.

**Mogura** · 11-03-2010, 05:12 AM

Okay, call me crazy, but... you two need to find middle ground here. He needs to meet you halfway, and you need to meet him halfway. It shouldn't be that you change yourself completely to fulfill his needs. He needs to make an effort to fulfill your needs as well. To that end, I think a lot of communication is in order...

**StormRider** · 11-03-2010, 01:56 PM

ENFJFiona, I'm impressed at your open mind and willingness to learn and compromise. Your response to the comments here has been admirable and not defensive as many people would be.
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**ENFJFiona** · 11-03-2010, 09:58 PM

Thank you

Sadly, when in the "heat of battle" with my husband, my calm and logical thinking processes can become rushed and rather scrambled. He has received more than a few illogical responses in the past
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**iamhuman** · 11-04-2010, 05:48 AM

Originally Posted by ENFJFiona
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I have been reading the forum so I shall aim to be brief and to the point

- I am an ENFJ
- I have been married to an INTJ for 14 months
- I love this INTJ very much
- Some of our marriage has been good
- Much of our marriage has been painful
- We have begun a business and this process seems to be amplifying the issue of him rarely giving compliments and only speaking when he wants to show a fault in my logic
- I aim to see his comments as constructive but have become worn down by the lack of positives

I have asked my husband for encouragement and explained that although this may seem unnecessary, for me it is very important and will result in better marriage outcomes.

He stated last night that he does not think we are working and I am getting the impression that he wants to quit.

Help.

Please.

You don't need him to be happy.
He's not making you happy or meeting your emotional needs so it may be time to quit.
It's O.K. to quit because you're worth more than he's willing to give.
If he would agree to counselling, then there might be a chance, but it would be in your best interests to have a mind set that allows you to entertain ending this relationship.

**ENFJFiona** · 11-04-2010, 05:59 AM

Hi IamHuman

Quitting is not an option in my head - I'm in there for keeps. And one of the lovely things about my boy is that I believe he is in there for keeps too.

I have only stumbled across this forum this week and I feel it has been really useful and I'm sure that through this I can get a better understanding of where he is coming from and in a few days I hope we will be able to both come up with some healthy compromises.

I promise - this guy is worth fighting for. He's amazing.

**iamhuman** · 11-04-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by ENFJFiona
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Hi IamHuman

Quitting is not an option in my head - I'm in there for keeps. And one of the lovely things about my boy is that I believe he is in there for keeps too.

I have only stumbled across this forum this week and I feel it has been really useful and I'm sure that through this I can get a better understanding of where he is coming from and in a few days I hope we will be able to both come up with some healthy compromises.

I promise - this guy is worth fighting for. He's amazing.

I have as yet to see why he's amazing, but I'll take your word for it.

If quitting is not an option to you, then you're in for a very tough ride. When we have the mind-set that quitting is not an option we set ourselves up for abuse (not physical necessarily) because we are willing to take whatever he decides to dish out.

11-02-2010, 03:31 AM	#1
ENFJFiona New Member [01%] MBTI: enfj Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13	I have been reading the forum so I shall aim to be brief and to the point - I am an ENFJ - I have been married to an INTJ for 14 months - I love this INTJ very much - Some of our marriage has been good - Much of our marriage has been painful - We have begun a business and this process seems to be amplifying the issue of him rarely giving compliments and only speaking when he wants to show a fault in my logic - I aim to see his comments as constructive but have become worn down by the lack of positives I have asked my husband for encouragement and explained that although this may seem unnecessary, for me it is very important and will result in better marriage outcomes. He stated last night that he does not think we are working and I am getting the impression that he wants to quit. Help. Please.
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11-02-2010, 04:53 AM	#2
Fishism Member [29%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,198	Speaking as an INTJ who has had trouble with long term relationships my WHOLE life for the very reasons you list above, if you want your marriage and business to last, follow the following general rule about INTJs: Of course, this is a generalization. Not all INTJ's are the same. You may think they're negative. They're not. All they're doing is ignoring the positive because the positive isn't broken. We don't waste time on things that do not need to be fixed. For an INTJ, showing your wife affection borders on redundancy. He's married you for Pete's sake! How much more emotional reinforcement does a woman need? Yes, that is our attitude. Actions speak louder than words. He's teamed up with you in many ways. This means something to him and should mean something to you. He's not going to shower you with reinforcement because there are more pressing issues. INTJ's do not lie well, do not fake things well and are rarely phoney, so he won't compliment you unless he feels it and means it. Also, consider this following tool of "Positivity Measurement". Let's say you have a scale from 1 to 10. 1 Being so negative you're suicidal and 10 being so positive you're delusional. INTJ's are generally realists, so on this scale, they will sit somewhere from 4 to 6. I'd wager money that you consider yourself an optimist, so you're up there at 7 or 8. So, from your perch at 7, anything your husband says at 5, even if it's true will be below you on the positivity scale and you will see it as negative. This will drive both of you crazy. You say: "I love this INTJ very much" If this is true, accept him for the INTJ he is, understand that he feels his actions and the fact that he's there with you everyday in both capacities speak loudly to him and only whisper to you. If you require emotion and everyday to be Valentine's Day, you've chosen the wrong partner.
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11-02-2010, 04:55 AM	#3
themuzicman Core Member [284%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,387	I think the first thing to keep in mind is that you're asking him to do something that is very foreign to him. As INTJs, we see process and outcome. That's how we operate. Doing and being the best and right is just SOP. Compliments are awkward for us. And, unless we come to understand that we need to interact with others differently, this isn't going to come naturally. In fact, it's going to be very out of place for us. Now, I assume he's more or less the same guy you married, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise to you. I can imagine as an ENFJ that you're expressing your needs to him in a very "feely" way, that can come off as clingy and needy. Not sure if that's the case, but that's my impression with ENFJs. If that's the case, you're not helping things. Nothing will drive an INTJ nuts faster than clingy and needy. (Except maybe an ESFP, but I digress..) My suggestion is to go buy the book "The Five Love Languages" and read it together. Or at least both of you should read it. And then talk about it. It presents a very good case for different people needing different expressions of love, and I think he'll pick up on that in his INTJ way. I would start the discussion by discussing his love languages. I can almost guarantee that he'll be "Acts of Service" and/or "Physical touch." But have the discussion anyway. Then it will be your turn. Yes, verbal affirmation is one of them. Again, be careful not to come off as needy or clingy, but in a reasonable way express that, yes, this is your love language. Then come to an agreement to work on expressing these things on a regular basis. And do your part. And then have a little patience, let him learn. One thing that I think is healthy for INTJs is to take on the challenge to study and learn about their spouse. Learn what makes them tick. Experiment a little. (Yeah, that sounds creepy. It's OK.) You might try that sometime after the book: Challenge him to study you, to learn how you're different from him, and to learn how to make you purr. And then step back and have a good time watching him do it.
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11-02-2010, 06:02 AM	#5
themuzicman Core Member [284%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,387	INTJs are pretty straight forward, and even if we tell you something intending something else and you do what we said, for the most part, we're going to stand by our word. That's one thing my wife does more than I like: She tried to "read into" what I'm saying or doing or look like or whatever, only to realize later that (once again) I meant what I said, and my body language had nothing to do with it. As an INTJ male, I can tell you that if I'm ticked off or mad, and I say nothing is wrong, even if there is, that only means I need to be left alone to process. I would say in almost all circumstances (unless you think he's intentionally lying), what he says is what he wants. I remember when we first had kids, I realized about 6 months into the first kid that I had to kick my wife out of the house to get some adult social time, because she needed it, so don't feel guilty about getting your additional social time from friends. Your husband will probably appreciate some alone time anyway.
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11-02-2010, 06:34 AM	#7
Fishism Member [29%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,198	The fact that you need to exercise your "E" by being social is something that we "I's" don't understand so much. The fact that you "need" social affirmation to support your "F" is something that we "T's" don't understand so much. You're not misinterpreting his negative body language. This situation annoys him and he doesn't understand your neediness. Yes, from our perspective, you ARE needy. You've somewhat stated this yourself by "go out to get the positive comments that I need." I became uncomfortable and experienced negative body language just by reading that. That's not to say that it's not genuine and real for you, but for me, as an INTJ, it's a perpetual challenge that we cannot overcome. He simply doesn't understand why you can't find enough personal validation in the organization that is your marriage. He thinks that because it's enough for him, why isn't it enough for you? So yes, if you want your marriage to work, you're going to have to find another source for the esteem boost you need. He's working hard on his MBA and your joint business venture and piling the responsibility of building your self worth on him will simply be too much. He's not skilled in this area nor does he want to be.
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11-02-2010, 08:46 AM	#9
brettx8 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 27	*Oops - I didn't notice the above post mentioning the same book as I posted. But anyway, it underscores the point.* Just an idea: have you read "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman? The basic premise of the book is that we all have a preferred way in which we express and receive love. If you both complete the questionnaire, and discover your "love languages", you can deliberately express love in ways that are most meaningful to your partner. For example, my INTJ partner likes 'Words of Affirmation' (not as much as an F would, but still). I'm an INTJ too, so I don't naturally use words to express my affection. But because I know she appreciates words, I can selectively express my love in words when necessary. The advantage of acquainting your partner with the book (or just the concept) is that it gives him a 'model' with which to understand your emotional needs. It may not be perfect, but it is effective.
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11-03-2010, 02:20 AM	#11
paperclip Member [37%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,497	Why do you feel as if you need to ask for permission to go out? Is this a result of your need for affirmation, or signs of an overly controlling/manipulative spouse? If it stems from your need to feel affirmed, you should seek affirmation of this kind else where (friends, family, etc). Nothing seems more tedious to me than a person asking their spouse, or me, if they should do x, y, z tiny little thing. Soy latte or vanilla latte? oh no! This reads as a mark of insecurity to me and I would likely stay away from such a person. If you need attention be secure enough in your own desires to seek out outlets for your E personality. His slouchy attitude upon your return may be you misreading his neutrality (ie acceptance of your going out) as negative. Is it possible that you want a stronger reaction from him because you wish he wished he was going out with you? Another possibility is that he actually is negative about your going out. If that's the case, the root of the cause may be in jealousy or plainly selfish behavior. BUT you must take him at his word if he appears negative, but says nothing is wrong. Don't pry into something that's not broken.
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11-03-2010, 02:45 AM	#12
ENFJFiona New Member [01%] MBTI: enfj Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13	Just hopped online again and want to say thanks for all the advice. There are some real nuggets in the statements that have been made. I like to summarise things so please let me know if anyone can find fault or an area requiring correction from the following. - I need to look at myself to ascertain the reasons behind my insecurities - the causes of my choice to ask permission. My guess - trying to be submissive and respectful has gone a little far in my case To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - I have permission to socialise, I have a need to socialise - I should socialise To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - I should continue in my actions and trust that my husband will note if somthing seems broken. - I should show more respect for the huge efforts that my husband is putting into job, study, business and working on our marriage. - I should dust off our 3 copies of "the five love languages" and ask my husband (again) if he will read it with me (or even just by himself) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Basically - He is an amazing guy and I'm really enjoying hearing the advice that you folk are giving coz I feel like I'm receiving a lot of insight into how he ticks. I feel much more informed. Thanks all.
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11-03-2010, 04:34 AM	#15
zibber Core Member [407%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,303	I don't know. What are his preferences?
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11-03-2010, 04:37 AM	#16
Mogura Core Member [175%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,031	I'm curious, did none of these issues come out while you two were dating, or was it that the issues came out and you just swept them under the proverbial carpet (and now they're once again rearing their ugly head)? When you say you are getting the impression he wants to quit, do you mean the business or the marriage? For me, complements are a no-brainer. But the whole clinginess/reassurance cycle is something I tend to trip up on...
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11-03-2010, 05:02 AM	#17
ENFJFiona New Member [01%] MBTI: enfj Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13	At the moment he is not sure of his preferences, but true to his type, he has contacted me today to state that he is not quitting the marriage. He just needs another 7 days of silence. I can and will give him that space. Regarding the business - I have decided to put it on hold until we can have a discussion in a week. At this point in time he has rightly said that we should not do the business together unless we can find a way of communicating more appropriately. You are right on the clinginess. Funny thing is - I'm not normally a clingy person but whilst dating my husband noted that I spent a lot of time with other people and noted a concern that I would not have enough time for him. I have therefore cancelled almost all social interaction with others for the first year of our marriage to show him that he is is priority number 1. This has backfired badly and now I must seem quite clingy.
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11-03-2010, 05:12 AM	#20
Mogura Core Member [175%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,031	Okay, call me crazy, but... you two need to find middle ground here. He needs to meet you halfway, and you need to meet him halfway. It shouldn't be that you change yourself completely to fulfill his needs. He needs to make an effort to fulfill your needs as well. To that end, I think a lot of communication is in order...
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11-03-2010, 01:56 PM	#21
StormRider New Member [01%] MBTI: InTJ Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 15	ENFJFiona, I'm impressed at your open mind and willingness to learn and compromise. Your response to the comments here has been admirable and not defensive as many people would be. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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11-03-2010, 09:58 PM	#22
ENFJFiona New Member [01%] MBTI: enfj Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13	Thank you Sadly, when in the "heat of battle" with my husband, my calm and logical thinking processes can become rushed and rather scrambled. He has received more than a few illogical responses in the past To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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11-04-2010, 05:59 AM	#24
ENFJFiona New Member [01%] MBTI: enfj Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13	Hi IamHuman Quitting is not an option in my head - I'm in there for keeps. And one of the lovely things about my boy is that I believe he is in there for keeps too. I have only stumbled across this forum this week and I feel it has been really useful and I'm sure that through this I can get a better understanding of where he is coming from and in a few days I hope we will be able to both come up with some healthy compromises. I promise - this guy is worth fighting for. He's amazing.
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