[themuzicman]

This came out of Mogura's thread, but I didn't want to clog that up with this.

Several people seem to think that a women deciding she doesn't want to have sex outside of marriage anymore is somehow wrong. Granted that if she's giving and denying to manipulate, that's one thing, but if she stops and says its on principle and sticks to it, is that wrong?

So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

[georgiana]

Sometimes a woman just can't have sex for a period of time. Physically. What if his girlfriend would have a child or get an abortion, what would Mogura do, ask the INTJ forum if it's OK to cheat her after not having sex for a month?

[themuzicman]

I guess I'm thinking more in terms of a personal decision, rather than medical necessity.

[zibber]

No one should be compelled to have sex.

To deny yourself something based on some backwards tradition seems silly, but it's still an entirely personal decision.

[Mogura]

I think a more interesting question would be, why would someone flip-flop on a principle if there's no manipulation involved? After all, principles are derived from values, and values don't change like the color of a chameleon's skin...

[Jonathon]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This came out of Mogura's thread, but I didn't want to clog that up with this. Several people seem to think that a women deciding she doesn't want to have sex outside of marriage anymore is somehow wrong. Granted that if she's giving and denying to manipulate, that's one thing, but if she stops and says its on principle and sticks to it, is that wrong? So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

Regardless of her wishes, you mean rape? Sex slave?

If a women doesn't want to have sex, that should be respected.

[True Rune]

Depends on the principle, and why they stopped having sex. I doubt people who stop have good intentions unless it's for "backwards traditions" (counterculture!)

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

No more than a man is. And yes, that happens too.

Yeah, I'm a pretty old-fashioned bird about these things. If you're not married there isn't really a duty.

Within marriage if someone withholds sex as punishment, well they need a counselor really bad. Sex is best used to heal from arguments.
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---------- Post added 10-25-2010 at 09:21 AM ----------

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think a more interesting question would be, why would someone flip-flop on a principle if there's no manipulation involved? After all, principles are derived from values, and values don't change like the color of a chameleon's skin...

How would you know if they flip flopped on a principle? Maybe their hormones got the better of their principles and then they woke up and returned to them.

Mogura, this happens pretty frequently. Like I mentioned, it happens to men too.

For those who think waiting until marriage is an antiquated notion, I recommend investigating the number of children being raised in poverty in this country and what might be the cause of that.

[Jonathon]

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For those who think waiting until marriage is an antiquated notion, I recommend investigating the number of children being raised in poverty in this country and what might be the cause of that.

The nation's/parent's/s' psycho-epistemological state?

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How would you know if they flip flopped on a principle? Maybe their hormones got the better of their principles and then they woke up and returned to them.

So, they broke their own principles that they hold so high and sacred? Tsk tsk...

[stock]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This came out of Mogura's thread, but I didn't want to clog that up with this. Several people seem to think that a women deciding she doesn't want to have sex outside of marriage anymore is somehow wrong. Granted that if she's giving and denying to manipulate, that's one thing, but if she stops and says its on principle and sticks to it, is that wrong? So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

On an idealistic level (aka a sweet ass FiSi generalization), no person is compelled to anything with their body. At any point, at any time, it is okay for a person to decide they no longer want to have sex.

Realistically a person's sex drive will wax and wane and may be affected by stress at work or children-if it reaches a point where it is disrupting the relationship, it needs to be a conversation that is had honestly and potentially a few counseling sessions may be of value.

Mog says values dont change on a dime...I dont agree that is always the case. I think values can rapidly be modified under stress OR more likely, you are now being judged via a different set of value judgments-thus the answer reached is not the same. I suspect the "INFP of a thousand evils" may now be reacting to you in a different way due to your actions and her past combined-which has set off defensive behaviors on her part.

You should think of Fi as one of those scenes in Mission impossible where hundreds of laser trip lines are between you and the bank vault. In the past you were stepping to the left and didnt see all those extra lines over to the right. Good Luck!

[mormeguil]

I don't think there is any obligation, but it is still the same as for any other behavior in a relationship. I think that someone would need a good reason to stop doing something that she and her SO think is an enjoyable act. Now, "I really don't feel like it" is a good reason as long as it's the true reason,

This mean that it's probably a good idea to talk it trought with the other person to make sure of the reason behind the difference in act.

I still do wonder why mariage as anything to do with how someone should act in a relationship. I really don't see why there would be a difference in a before and after mariage.

	hysically. What if his girlfriend would have a child

By the way, you can have sex with a pregant women whitout problems unless otherwise stated by a doctor.

[LionsPride]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	if she stops and says its on principle and sticks to it, is that wrong?

It may not be 'wrong' but it demonstrates a piss poor understanding of the concept of partnership if one partner decided what will happen with sex and the other has no option but to go along. When you expect your partner to be sexually faithful and you decide to give up sex for Lent, then you have to realize that it's not "I'm giving up sex for Lent" it's "WE are giving up sex for Lent". It automatically includes them. This goes for a lot of decisions in a relationship and the severity of the decision and the amount of tension it will cause is dependent on how important the item is to one or both partners. How you make the decision (not what decision you make) should reflect how important it is to you or your partner, whichever level is the highest. The higher the level, the more respect should be paid to the process of making the decision.

That's not to say that if person feels strongly about giving up sex, that they are obligated to get over that and keep putting out because they already started, but it does mean that a very frank discussion should occur where one person asks the other person for support for it and hopefully agreement. If that support can't be achieved and the principle of having sex is something that is a key part of the other partner's view on the relationship then it has to be understood what kind of strain the other person will go through if they are forced to concede to the other's wishes. It's not always going to be the coffin nail in the relationship, but the toll should be realized and its cost depends on how important having sex was to the loved one. Maybe they can bear it, maybe they can't.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For those who think waiting until marriage is an antiquated notion, I recommend investigating the number of children being raised in poverty in this country and what might be the cause of that.

Wrapst it before thou tapst it.

[LifesEcstasy]

No she is not compelled to. Although she must be prepared to accept whatever consequences arise from that decision. Like all things, we always have a choice and our choices have outcomes. As long as we are prepared to live with the outcome then the choice is ours to make.

[plotthickens]

Her choice. Which means it's his choice to leave her. Seems kind of stupid to sign up for a monogamous commitment which included sex and then change the ground rules and expect everyone to be OK with it: no fair pulling the rug out.

"When the sex is good, it's the smallest part of the relationship. When the sex is bad, it's the BIGGEST part!"

[LaoTzu]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

Is it ok to reject a Man's physical needs for personal self-interest? Is a Man wrong for desiring physical affection?


Apparently so.... :/


I'd dump her; since she chooses not to meet my physical (read:emotional) needs. I've been in that relationship. Tried to find a happy median, but there was none to be found.
Relationships are about compromise and genuine interest in the other's needs and desires. If no compromise is to be found, no relationship can be had.
She can find herself someone with an equivalent sex-drive....

[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

No, nor is wrong for a guy to do the same thing. It may create some kind of tension in the relationship, and may even cause it to end, and the perosn should be prepared for that.

[Aronnax]

Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This came out of Mogura's thread, but I didn't want to clog that up with this. Several people seem to think that a women deciding she doesn't want to have sex outside of marriage anymore is somehow wrong. Granted that if she's giving and denying to manipulate, that's one thing, but if she stops and says its on principle and sticks to it, is that wrong? So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

No, she's not compelled to keep "putting out" but this isn't a decision made for one person in a monogamous relationship. An individual also isn't compelled to listen or speak but their partner is probably going to have issues with that decision.

[REMwoman]

Originally Posted by LionsPride To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It may not be 'wrong' but it demonstrates a piss poor understanding of the concept of partnership if one partner decided what will happen with sex and the other has no option but to go along. When you expect your partner to be sexually faithful and you decide to give up sex for Lent, then you have to realize that it's not "I'm giving up sex for Lent" it's "WE are giving up sex for Lent". It automatically includes them. This goes for a lot of decisions in a relationship and the severity of the decision and the amount of tension it will cause is dependent on how important the item is to one or both partners. How you make the decision (not what decision you make) should reflect how important it is to you or your partner, whichever level is the highest. The higher the level, the more respect should be paid to the process of making the decision. That's not to say that if person feels strongly about giving up sex, that they are obligated to get over that and keep putting out because they already started, but it does mean that a very frank discussion should occur where one person asks the other person for support for it and hopefully agreement. If that support can't be achieved and the principle of having sex is something that is a key part of the other partner's view on the relationship then it has to be understood what kind of strain the other person will go through if they are forced to concede to the other's wishes. It's not always going to be the coffin nail in the relationship, but the toll should be realized and its cost depends on how important having sex was to the loved one. Maybe they can bear it, maybe they can't.

Well said. A partnership is an agreement that needs to be respected for how it meets the needs of both parties. The components of that relationship can be negotiated and renegotiated, but it has to be done openly and honestly to be a worthwhile relationship.

[Vagrant]

It may not be 'wrong' but it demonstrates a piss poor understanding of the concept of partnership if one partner decided what will happen with sex and the other has no option but to go along. When you expect your partner to be sexually faithful and you decide to give up sex for Lent, then you have to realize that it's not "I'm giving up sex for Lent" it's "WE are giving up sex for Lent". It automatically includes them. This goes for a lot of decisions in a relationship and the severity of the decision and the amount of tension it will cause is dependent on how important the item is to one or both partners. How you make the decision (not what decision you make) should reflect how important it is to you or your partner, whichever level is the highest. The higher the level, the more respect should be paid to the process of making the decision. That's not to say that if person feels strongly about giving up sex, that they are obligated to get over that and keep putting out because they already started, but it does mean that a very frank discussion should occur where one person asks the other person for support for it and hopefully agreement. If that support can't be achieved and the principle of having sex is something that is a key part of the other partner's view on the relationship then it has to be understood what kind of strain the other person will go through if they are forced to concede to the other's wishes. It's not always going to be the coffin nail in the relationship, but the toll should be realized and its cost depends on how important having sex was to the loved one. Maybe they can bear it, maybe they can't.

I agree completely. It is her (or his) choice to make, but in so doing, they make the choice for their partner as well (against his/her will). Naturally the partner might not receive this well. If an open discussion is not created, then there will be negative repercussions on the relationship.

Takes two to horizontal tango.

[BobG]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, the question is: Once a woman starts having sex in a relationship, is she compelled to keep "putting out" on a regular basis, regardless of her wishes?

No.

But it does create a new environment where both get to re-evaluate the value of this relationship.

She's entitled to her views of what a relationship should be.

He's entitled to his views of what a relationship should be.

If those views are incompatible, then they need to move on and find more compatible relationships.

[Storm]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Several people seem to think that a women deciding she doesn't want to have sex outside of marriage anymore is somehow wrong.

What if they are married?

[Deliberator]

If a woman has a change of heart and wants to stop based on a principle related to religion or morals or what-have-you I think that's acceptable as long as both people understand the situation and agree with it.

[Malsqueek]

	Originally Posted by Deliberator To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If a woman has a change of heart and wants to stop based on a principle related to religion or morals or what-have-you I think that's acceptable as long as both people understand the situation and agree with it.

Yep. In a relationship (marriage or not) Sex is very very important. At least "Sex" meaning a "mutual understanding of the guidelines regarding carnal and sensual interactions".

Simply not having as frequent a desire for sex is totally ok. As has been said before, that part of a relationship will wax and wane. Electing to change a previously communicated pattern as punishment or as a correctional tool really violates what Sex is, at least to me. Not that you can't be upset and not want to be physically intimate with the person you are upset with while you are upset, but that's why this is such a tricky area, now isn't it?