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Old 10-05-2010, 09:50 AM   #1
stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?


Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?


If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?


Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?


Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?


Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?
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Old 10-05-2010, 09:52 AM   #2
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i'm all for sharing ideas, but that doesn't mean i won't immediately shoot your idea down if i see flaws.

i tend to keep my own ideas to myself until i feel they are solid.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:12 AM   #3
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Gah! Too many "shoulds". I don't like "should" one bit.

In an ideal world, the idea's state of development or prior judgement about the presenter's intellectual ability/credibility would not matter, as everybody would be seeking Truth impartially. Such a world is as mythical as unicorns, so the state of development is actually quite significant. Releasing a shoddily thought out idea in its infancy would be disastrous for its future (and the reputation of its presenter). Usually, no amount of improvement can overcome the first impressions of evaluators. If the incomplete idea is actually sensible, it will be co-opted by those seeking to further their agendas. They will tack on their own commentary, ignoring your development thereafter.

Responsibility for ill-effects of an idea lies solely with perpetrators, not the originator. There is no obligation to state one's certainty in an idea, although it can hurt or help depending on the crowd. The hoi polloi love certainty, conflating it with confidence. The wise abhor certainty, as they've been around long enough to experience radical changes in their own views. A few (maybe many) will be able to think through an idea independently when given the initial conditions. They will almost certainly arrive at slightly different conclusions.

Everybody should have the right to present ideas. Ideas should be judged by their own merits, but this rarely happens in the real world.
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Old 10-05-2010, 04:18 PM   #4
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  Originally Posted by elizabeth lover
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i'm all for sharing ideas, but that doesn't mean i won't immediately shoot your idea down if i see flaws.

i tend to keep my own ideas to myself until i feel they are solid.

I find sharing my ideas at an early stage with the right people (preferably and INTP) is way more efficient than keeping them to my self. The process of making the idea solid goes a lot faster when you let other brains review it. A long speech about potential flaws is exactly what I want to continue it's development.

---------- Post added 10-05-2010 at 10:24 PM ----------

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

Of course everyone should have the right to put forth ideas, why wouldn't some people be eligible for idea sharing?

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Old 10-05-2010, 05:39 PM   #5
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There are plenty of ideas I don't share because I suspect they might cause harm to others or be otherwise disruptive.

As for when it should be shared... depends on what effect its likely to have. If you have a great money making idea... share it in ways that it makes you money
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:03 AM   #6
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  Originally Posted by Zsych
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There are plenty of ideas I don't share because I suspect they might cause harm to others or be otherwise disruptive.

As for when it should be shared... depends on what effect its likely to have. If you have a great money making idea... share it in ways that it makes you money
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I'm curious, how could your ideas cause harm to others?

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Old 10-06-2010, 07:53 AM   #7
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Some of my thoughts are below. This seems to be a fairly broad topic, so there are many situations to consider. It's hard to give a one size fits all answer.

  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

If the idea has some direct impact on a decision process, even if the idea isn't fully baked, it may be wise to speak up. Numerous times I've said soemthign to the extent of "I'm not sure if this is a good idea or not, but have we considered . . . . " Sometimes it turns out to be nothing, sometimes it changes the course of the decision, and sometimes it sparks its own new discussion.


 
Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?


If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Maybe. For example, if someone's life is in danger and you have an idea how to save them, I'd say there is some responsibility there. Other situations may not have the same responsibility. If you have an idea that your friend should pick blue carpet instead of brown, it may be nice to provide your input, but I wouldn't say that rises to the level of a ethical responsibility.


 
Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

Again, maybe. If someone has proposed a method for saving a life and you have tried it many times without success, it is probably important to say you are fairly certian of that.


 
Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

Usually not, although if you are presenting an idea to a group you work with often, you probably have a good idea who will and will not put effort into it.


 
Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

There are valid cases where groups can exclude certian people from presenting ideas, or at least restrict their ability to do so in some way. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that. On the other hand, some situations, like some emergencies, may be better served if everyone is allowed to present ideas.


 
Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

I think it is fine to take source into account. My wife and I generally reject ideas on how to manage our finances from our eight year old. He just doesn't have the understanding of finances in general and our situation in particular to have credible ideas in that area. Such determinations, however, cannot always be made and it may not always be appropriate to reject an idea based only on where it came from.

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Old 10-06-2010, 08:32 AM   #8
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

After you have applied for the patent!

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Old 10-06-2010, 09:51 AM   #9
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  Originally Posted by TobiasW
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I'm curious, how could your ideas cause harm to others?

Give people who don't deserve power more power, or facilitate negative objectives of people who might have a desire to carry them out rather than study things from a theoretical perspective.

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Old 10-06-2010, 09:59 AM   #10
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

As soon as it has passed the initial internal questioning/testing phase and requires other input to determine its validity in application.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

Depends on what the consequences (or potential effects/consequences) are of sharing vs. not sharing the idea. Simply sharing or not sharing the idea may absolve you of further ethical responsibility.

  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?

Sometimes the timing/setting/delivery of an idea has a significant effect on its chances of being considered and/or adopted. If there's an ethical dilemma in play, finding the appropriate time/setting/delivery method may be required that supersedes my answer to the first question.

  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Are we talking about internal or external feelings of responsibility? Responsibility can be a subjective thing depending on the dynamics of the situation and internally or externally rationalized.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

No. Sometimes withholding your degree of (un)certainty is necessary for fostering a conversation.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

Absolutely not. 50% of the population is below average intelligence. Moreover, if the idea doesn't affect them directly, they may be more likely to leave it to others to think through.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

Some people's ideas are weighed more carefully from past experiences with successful ideas in a group dynamic. Newcomers or people with previously unsuccessful ideas (or delivery of those ideas) aren't always treated with the same respect.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

SHOULD it, or IS it? I think the right idea from the wrong person gets rejected all the time, but I don't think it should be that way.

--I am entertained by your posts, stock. The way you pose abstract questions without parameters is bait for studying your respondents presupposed values. I'm on to you. LOL


Edited to fix quote block.

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Old 10-06-2010, 06:33 PM   #11
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Stock,
I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer any of your questions. I know how I prefer to share ideas and I know how I prefer them to be shared with me. But those differ. And they're merely preferences.

  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

It depends. *sigh*

 
Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?
If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?
If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

I'm not sure I'd say there are any "responsibilities," but there are things to acknowledge/consider (some of which you've recognized). I would add the who, when, and why.
I think the closest thing to a "responsibility" would be sharing the new ideas.

 
Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

Obligated? Responsible? I'm still saying no.
However, demonstrated certainty (fact or acceptance of fact) is to the sharer's advantage.

 
Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

It's okay. But dumb.

 
Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

I'm open to everyone and every idea. I put forth the "right to put forth."

 
Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

I think people should be judged by their ideas. I do not think ideas should be judged by their people.

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Old 10-07-2010, 03:05 AM   #12
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?


Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?


If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?


Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?


Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?


Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

All of the above are totally alien thoughts which by logical extension I have never thought about. In fact reading them just gave me a headache.

I have ideas but I don't share them unless the other person is somehow pivotal to my plans. I couldn't care less whether anyone else thought I had a right to express them or not. It's my idea, I'll do whatever the hell I want with it. Likewise I couldn't care less if someone rejected my idea because they don't like me. People not liking me is very common, if I worried about it or factored it into my thinking in any way it would be very inconvenient.

Ethical responsibility - what is that? Since I don't routinely share my idea's how another person might behave with the knowledge is a non-issue.

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Old 10-07-2010, 08:06 AM   #13
stock
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  Originally Posted by fokalina
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Stock,
I would like to hear some of your thoughts.

Sure!

  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

The essential word here is the word "should". It is implying there is a value judgment waiting to be passed, not on the idea, but more associated with the sharing of the idea before it is complete or before you have sufficient buy-in from others in the group. "Should" you share the idea?

As an ENFP, I tend to share ideas as soon as I have a few trivial connections. This is essential as I use NeFi to map the people and make the connections but use Te to structure what I see. It is a weak Te working with Ne, so I am very aware that it can be overly generalized at times. Thus I share ideas asap in order to seek immediate correction and then dismiss if incorrect. I also think aloud with NeTe-thus the sharing of an idea is actually allowing me to complete construction of the idea verbally.

So to place this in a value perspective-"should" I share this new idea? I have always assumed this is okay and it was bizarre for me to find people who found it offensive to do so.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?


If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?


This question is funny as you guys went in the total opposite direction, than I intended. I have always assumed, like most of you, that it is okay to share new ideas, and an idea that was important to a project is almost obligatory to be shared if it might cause the project to fail. To not share your insight is to risk failure of the group.

Until I was told that new ideas should not be shared unless you have group buy-in, as then other people-who cant be assumed to think independently-might think the idea is true and thus act upon it. I assumed the data backing up the idea was what was important, but it appears the reputation of the idea-presenter can actually be more important and actually trump data. Data will be ignored and social status will determine the outcome.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

^^ For these three, I always have assumed other people are individual entities who are capable-and have a god given right, so to speak,-to be allowed to evaluate the problem under discussion. Realistically I realize people are pretty stupid and lazy. They may or may not evaluate, but it is not my place to decide what ideas they should be exposed to or to make the choice they should not see the idea, simply because I dont think they can be logical about it.

I also assume that every person has the right to openly communicate an idea. I may not listen. I may call it stupid, and realistically, after a couple of stupid ideas, the person will be tuned out a bit, but I wouldnt bash them for stating an idea. I seem to have a very strong Fi value wrapped around freedom of thought and freedom to express that thought. I am disturbed when I see others, even those I detest, trying to express an opinion or idea and seeing other people quell them.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

I have always evaluated ideas in isolation from the person who presented the idea. Once the idea is externalized it is placed in the center of the table and it is fair game to find holes in it. It is about the idea having flaws, which doesnt really connect to the person who suggested the idea having flaws.

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Old 10-07-2010, 08:33 AM   #14
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Although we may be able to separate ideas from their proponents, it is wishful (and dangerous) thinking to assume that others do so as well. There are numerous psychological contaminants in any intellectual environment; obstinate morons who tie the success of their idea to their ego, face-saving behaviour, fear of social reprisal for touching upon taboo ideas, (dis)favouring ideas because of personal relationships, intellectual tribalism, etc. So the timing and method of presentation are highly dependent on the environment.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:21 PM   #15
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  Originally Posted by stock
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Until I was told that new ideas should not be shared unless you have group buy-in, as then other people-who cant be assumed to think independently-might think the idea is true and thus act upon it.

Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say here. How do you get group buy-in without sharing the idea? Or maybe you mean share it outside of the immediate team you are working with?

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Old 10-07-2010, 02:08 PM   #16
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  Originally Posted by Warrior
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Maybe I don't understand what you are trying to say here. How do you get group buy-in without sharing the idea? Or maybe you mean share it outside of the immediate team you are working with?

Well. I have seen this go down a couple of different ways.

You actually go door to door and visit the individual directors-not the members of your team, but their bosses. You convince the bosses the idea is good, albeit mostly the bosses do not have the technical background to really pass judgment. Then you can present the idea to the group and tell them their bosses approve. At this point nobody speaks up as they dont want to get in trouble with their bosses. They also assume that even if the idea seems questionable, their bosses approved, so it must be okay.

The other way is to go door to door with team members and present the idea before hand and convince each one the idea is okay. Since they are one-on-one, they may think there particular piece is okay or if conflict averse they will just agree to avoid conflict. You can also point out how many other members of the team have already found this to be okay. Then when the idea is presented in the group, everyone agrees because everyone else has already agreed-thus ignoring flaws the group might uncover.

I have also seen trading of favors-if one person 1 lets person 2's idea move forward, then the next time person 2 will let person 1's idea go unquestioned.

In the real meeting new ideas are also put forth is a weird aggregate mixture-like no one person came up with the idea-thus no one person can be blamed when it fails. Also it is in poor form in these meetings to call on one person to make a decision or answer a question. "well we will have to talk that over with so-and-so and get their thoughts"

To make this particularly effective, if someone in the formal meeting questions the idea, then the other members of the team may tell them they are being pessimistic and bringing the team spirit down or question their level of understanding. "If you really understood this, you would see this is the best way to solve the problem".

They are accused of not working with the group. If the critique of the plan is very direct, they may be accused of being difficult to get along with or having a bad attitude. The more they point out the lack of logic, the more "hard to work with" they are.

They may also be told not to worry about the problem, that the Directors have everything covered-ie it isnt really your place to bring that issue up. Very often the get uninvited from the formal meeting.

Another tactic is to respond with direct questions of an idea with "Well, we need to let our bosses decide the best way to solve that problem, so we can cover it during the next meeting" or "Oh, thanks, that's a great observation, let me get back to you on that."

It only takes a couple of meetings like this before the formal meetings run VERY smoothly and everyone is very agreeable and optimistic.
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In name, the team has a project, a goal. But the team doesn't buy into any particular long term accomplishment of a goal via day to day deliverables, but instead seems to focus on what preserves the stability of the social aggregate with minimal disruption.

(FWIW I havent been inside these teams-but watched externally)

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Old 10-09-2010, 02:47 PM   #17
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?


Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?


Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?


Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?


Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

Always! Other's information can be added to your own and you can build it further. Then, with your new information about their information, they'll have more information about that! It's a snowball effect.

The only ethical responsibility I can think of is that the information or idea be constructive and help someone or something.

No, because there is a possibility that the other person may think you know all there is to know and may not share any information or build on what you said.

OMG no. The majority of people do NOT do this, until the time arrives. Definitely not beforehand like INxJs.

No way. All information should be shared. Hell, you might learn something from someone you didn't expect could teach you anything. Of course, they may not directly teach you something, but I almost always indirectly learn something from just about everything.

Ad hominem?

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Old 10-09-2010, 03:22 PM   #18
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of[,] at what stage of development and testing[] should it be shared?

One could argue that any idea expressed is 'sharing'.


  Originally Posted by stock
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Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

Sometimes.*


  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?

Upon context? It fucking better.


  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, [d]oes it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Does the responsibility depend upon context, and if so, does context depend upon content?

Really?


  Originally Posted by stock
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Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

Content/context.


  Originally Posted by stock
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Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

Content/context.


  Originally Posted by stock
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Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

Content/context.


  Originally Posted by stock
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Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesn[']t come from the right person?

Bad idea machines are bad.


*Content/context.

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Old 10-15-2010, 12:24 PM   #19
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I have a library of ideas I wrote down ever since I turned 15. The only person that has seen them is me. I personally don’t like to share ideas for two reasons: one, some of them challenge people's reality and could potentially change it, making me sound more crazy then normal and two, there my ideas, if I go spouting them out someone could potentially take them as their own. I guess I'm just paranoid like that. I figure once I leave then I really won’t care who knows by then. Although I don’t mind a few being shared.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:17 PM   #20
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

When you can state it in a sentence.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is the[re] an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

If it could be harmful to others, then it should be formulated in a way that mitigates the harm.

  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?

No.

  Originally Posted by stock
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If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

Yes.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

You mean how certain they are that the idea is true? Yes.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

It's logical to assume someone will. We're not quite in the film Idiocracy yet.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

In some places the former, in some the latter.

  Originally Posted by stock
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Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

Own merits.

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Old 10-24-2010, 12:18 AM   #21
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Well, having an idea-first of all- I believe it is a good thing, because it shows that somebody can think and imagine. Thought and imagination help us to go forward.

I suppose we can seperate ideas into personal- when they have to do with our own improvement -and impersonal when they have to do with other's improvement.
In my opinion, personal ideas should be kept more private and talk them only with persons we can really trust and know they have the ability to help us -and share impersonal ideas with those that are interested to hear them and might have benefit from them.

I like hearing new ideas from others, I judge them by myself-I rank them into categories by my own value system- and if I find an idea good I put all my strength to make it come true. In this process I don't care who has invented the idea as long as I find it good and possible to apply and motives of the inventor are not bad.
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:08 PM   #22
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  Originally Posted by stock
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When a new idea is thought of at what stage of development and testing, should it be shared?

When its near finalization or finalized, since all new ideas are either accepted or rejected by the majority of people regardless of its merits since they either don't want to or actually unable to understand its newness because it goes against their already held idea, the minority who have a sufficient background in its field can be given the exception of early access conditioning they don't criticize it heavily, even if there are errors in it, since all ideas take time to mature before being able to handle constructive criticism ...

 
Is their an ethical responsibility associated with the new idea being shared?

No ... unless its detrimental to somebodies existence, & can lead to harm or death in the wrong hands or minds.

 
If so, does the responsibility vary depending upon what/where/how the idea is shared?

Yes ... what, if the idea is going to update, upgrade or completely change the fundamentals of the one/s pervious to it ... where, if its going to be presented in the wrong place thats its going to be rejected, or even offensively degraded ... how, that depends on the language of presentation, depending on the simplicity or complexity of it, language should fit not the other way around.

since all of this is circumstantial, I'd go with finalize & materialize the idea, so it can speak for itself, & stand on its own feet against criticism, constructive or otherwise.

 
If so, Does it depend upon the content/topic of the idea?

No, it doesn't matter, new ideas are always resisted heavily, even when they prove better, you just have to do your best ...

 
Is the sharer of the idea obligated to state certainty they have in the idea?

Yes, because you can't separate ideas from its creators, until the idea is public, its individual, once its shared, its collective ...

 
Is it okay to assume others will independently think through an idea on their own?

No, its better to assume nobody will care about it, or destructively criticize it, the idea will have to evolve, either live or die ...

 
Should you have to earn the "right" to present ideas or should everyone have a right to put forth ideas?

I'd say earning the right, because if you don't work to materialize it, or atleast theorize it so it can be so, then so what, its of no value unless its constructed to be used by you & others too ...

 
Should an idea be judged on its own merits-independent of the person who presented it or are the two linked -ie an idea is rejected if it doesnt come from the right person?

In an idealistic world, yes, but we don't live in one
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why didn't continue your discussion
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