[Mikey69]

I have noticed some Nationalist sentiment among posters, including myself.

It seems contradictory to be a type which doesn't revere authority or institutions yet has such sentiment.

I have also noted a belief among some Nationalists that Nationalism is not synonymous with aggressive militarism or racism. I share this view.

Could I have some feedback and theories on this?

[Judoka]

No I never was a really into nationalism nor patriotism.
I mean I do support certain countries and all but I'm not the person to go out to the street and wave flags of the US/Israel/UK whenever they do something enormous I support. And I'm not the one to make facebook groups of condemning other countries or trying into participating boycotts and all.

[Warrior]

I'm very patriotic, which is expressed in many ways. However, I don't see how that has anything to do with racism. I'm not sure what you really mean by agressive military action. I'm not really in favor of taking over other countries, although as the biggest kid on the playground, I'm not opposed to standing up to the bully when others are not able to stand up for themselves.

[Mikey69]

	Originally Posted by Warrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'm very patriotic, which is expressed in many ways. However, I don't see how that has anything to do with racism. I'm not sure what you really mean by agressive military action. I'm not really in favor of taking over other countries, although as the biggest kid on the playground, I'm not opposed to standing up to the bully when others are not able to stand up for themselves.

Why do we,as supposed 'unemotional' INTJ's have such passions? Theories?

[themuzicman]

Because there is a rational and logical case for embracing the principles that one's nation stands for, as expressed by its founders and founding documents.

For me, part of this is also pragmatic. I have no interest under Muslim or socialist or communist principles.

[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why do we,as supposed 'unemotional' INTJ's have such passions? Theories?

For one, I think you are over-emphasizing the unemotional INTJ. While they may choose to display them differently, I think many INTJs experience the full range of emotions as anyone else.

Also, I agree with themuzicman:

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Because there is a rational and logical case for embracing the principles that one's nation stands for, as expressed by its founders and founding documents. For me, part of this is also pragmatic. I have no interest under Muslim or socialist or communist principles.

[Ytterbium]

I think this whole INTJ is somewhat of a contradiction. INTJ say they like freedom etc. But this forum isn't exactly that. There're alot of rules here acoording the most things I would say. In this matter I those whom call themselves nationalists or patriots. They bang their chest and say they're patriot this and that, 'we' are best and so forth. But I don't think anyone of these people are really willing to die for their country. These people like the freedom lovers mentioned above are a bunch of hypocrites and should be beaten with a stick.
I personally don't like the word patriot or nationalist. Even though I may be one.

[alphawolf]

There are very few things that disgust me more than nationalism and xenophobia (for example child abuse and organised religion).

[Arkeph]

My view on the matter is that being of the INTJ type (or any other type) does not bar the contradiction of a minority of a person's views or personality traits. In fact, it would be remarkable to find a person who did not express any contradiction in views or personality.

[Mikey69]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are very few things that disgust me more than nationalism and xenophobia (for example child abuse and organised religion).

Wouldn't your hatred of religion constitute a form of xenophobia?

I find those who despise 'their own' repugnant.

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are very few things that disgust me more than nationalism and xenophobia (for example child abuse and organised religion).

Seems to me that you're expressing xenophobia, even as you condemn it.

[Tocsin]

Being proud of your country makes as much sense to me as being proud of your shoe size.

The only thing "national pride" means is that someone has been essentially brainwashed into believing that "their country" stands for all the "virtuous" things that they have been TOLD by the people in power that it does.

If you look closely at the history of ANY country, you're going to find a lot of crap that people would prefer to keep hidden in the closet.

If you choose to ignore what you have found out, for the comfort that "feeling proud" brings, then you have just subjected yourself to a life of intellectual dishonesty... which is nothing to be proud of.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by themuzicman To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Seems to me that you're expressing xenophobia, even as you condemn it.

OK, I've had some wine, so speak bluntly and make your point.

[Mikey69]

Originally Posted by Tocsin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Being proud of your country makes as much sense to me as being proud of your shoe size. The only thing "national pride" means is that someone has been essentially brainwashed into believing that "their country" stands for all the "virtuous" things that they have been TOLD by the people in power that it does. If you look closely at the history of ANY country, you're going to find a lot of crap that people would prefer to keep hidden in the closet. If you choose to ignore what you have found out, for the comfort that "feeling proud" brings, then you have just subjected yourself to a life of intellectual dishonesty... which is nothing to be proud of.

So not all of us live in great countries. Sucks to be you.

---------- Post added 09-17-2010 at 03:44 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are very few things that disgust me more than nationalism and xenophobia (for example child abuse and organised religion).

Are you attempteing to draw a co-relation between nationalism and xenophobia?

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Are you attempteing to draw a co-relation between nationalism and xenophobia?

Nothing less.

[Mikey69]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nothing less.

A rather 'phobic' attitude I must say.

Ever heard of self esteem? Don't believe it applies to Nations? Open your mind, Nationalism is not limited to the 'us and them' dichotomy.

A Nationalist also opens his door to the foreigner as not to shame the reputation for hospitality of his 'tribe'. Nation doesn't have to be limited to race, religion etc.

[vampyroteuthis]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A rather 'phobic' attitude I must say. Ever heard of self esteem? Don't believe it applies to Nations? Open your mind, Nationalism is not limited to the 'us and them' dichotomy. A Nationalist also opens his door to the foreigner as not to shame the reputation for hospitality of his 'tribe'. Nation doesn't have to be limited to race, religion etc.

Nations aren't tribes.

[Mikey69]

	Originally Posted by vampyroteuthis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nations aren't tribes.

Hence the use of quotation marks.

[vampyroteuthis]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hence the use of quotation marks.

Sure, but the thing is it's a specious comparison, quotation marks or not.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A rather 'phobic' attitude I must say. Ever heard of self esteem? Don't believe it applies to Nations? Open your mind, Nationalism is not limited to the 'us and them' dichotomy. A Nationalist also opens his door to the foreigner as not to shame the reputation for hospitality of his 'tribe'. Nation doesn't have to be limited to race, religion etc.

Right. Keep feeding yourself the propaganda, because I sure as hell won't eat it.

And, for the record, I will NOTE that although I live in a foreign country, I have never been subjected to nationalistic discrimination - in truth, they treat me too good, (but I know plenty of darker-skinned people who have been treated unfairly, and I stand for them).

[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nothing less.

Nationalism and patriotism don't imply a fear of anything.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by Warrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nationalism and patriotism don't imply a fear of anything.

In my book, nationalism is little more than a polite euphemism for xenophobia.

Patriotism is a different animal altogether. Typically, foreigners can be atoned via exceptional patriotism. Which is above and beyond the call of duty and shouldn't be necessary.

[Mikey69]

	Originally Posted by vampyroteuthis To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Sure, but the thing is it's a specious comparison, quotation marks or not.

tribalism

n.
1.The organization, culture, or beliefs of a tribe.
2.A strong feeling of identity with and loyalty to one's tribe or group.

I will try to use less figurative terms if you please.

---------- Post added 09-17-2010 at 04:55 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Right. Keep feeding yourself the propaganda, because I sure as hell won't eat it. And, for the record, I will NOTE that although I live in a foreign country, I have never been subjected to nationalistic discrimination - in truth, they treat me too good, (but I know plenty of darker-skinned people who have been treated unfairly, and I stand for them).

Feeding myself? I hunger for it, I will. I'm not asking for you to eat it. (As long as you're not Canadian)

Why do you only see Nationalism in skin tones? Do you only see racism when it's perpetrated by whites too?

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I will try to use less figurative terms if you please.

Either that or take your eyes out of the headlights.

	Originally Posted by Mikey69 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why do you only see Nationalism in skin tones? Do you only see racism when it's perpetrated by whites too?

Because that's how esprit de corps works. Racism is based on the ethnicity of the people who control the money in a given geographical area, nothing more, nothing less.

[Ytterbium]

Easy now, he likes wine.
I think we basically are on the same trail. I don't like nationalists either. Mostly because they're retarded hypocrites. But yeah I'll try to save myself and alpha from the Russians.