What's your take on authority?

**IgnoranceIsKind** · 04-19-2008, 05:02 AM

Frankly speaking, I see it as relative rather than absolute. For both figures and regulations, that is. The only two reasons that would make me heed to any authority would be because

a) It makes perfect sense that would result in edifying me as a character, of which its evaluation comes only from me and not the opinions of others.
b) I respect the person, who must be smart and efficient in their respective duties. In which case, point a is nullified because I trust this person to know what they are doing.

If any of the the aforementioned criterions are not met, I would then do things my own way. And inevitably, it often gets me into trouble. I honestly feel that respect for authority must be earned. There is absolutely no way I would heed to a person or rule just because I have to; it just doesn't make any sense. Just because you are my teacher doesn't automatically make you superior to me, that opinion must be earned. I believe in meritocracy. But as far as the notion of authority is concerned, it is mindless surrender. A cultivation of the Hive Mind (herd mentality) that impedes individuality.

**Phrixos** · 04-19-2008, 05:19 AM

If it is given and achieves a desired result, then yes.

From Business perspective: Putting an authoritarian in charge of subordinates with required skill could prove a well managed team.

**RedOwen333** · 04-27-2008, 07:51 AM

It would appear that people naturally form themselves into heirachies - this seems to happen in every organisation. That is surely what authority is - a reflection of your position in a heirachy. INTJ people are noted for not merely conforming to the heirachy and respecting those people who earn their respect. Our ability to see outside the limitations of a heirachy can be a blessing and a curse, but there's no way I'd give up mine!

**Motor Jax** · 04-27-2008, 08:08 AM

you know, when the government was built by the people, for the people, it was the people that authority was afraid of

but now, people are now afraid of authority, when it is authority that is suppose to protect its people, not scare them and make them worship

i'm not one for authority, it just seems to me like authority used to be the step-dad and the people are the kids. and at first, authority was timid and really didn't want to piss the kids off and wanted to fit right into the family. but then over time, the step-dad authority had become the abuser and punisher

it just doesn't ring well with me is all, but that's my own opinion

**knitteratheart** · 04-27-2008, 08:59 AM

Wow, Motor Jax, what did your step-dad do to you?

Anyways, I think it's part of our INTJness not to respect authority because it's authority. I mean, I understand why authority is needed in this world, but I also don't think it's absolute. Authority should be more of a role model instead of an enforcer.

**Motor Jax** · 04-27-2008, 09:40 AM

yeah, i guess i still have hard feelings about what happened back then, even though it has been 12 yrs ago that we finally left

it just seems though, that people in authority take the law into their own hands

but these times aren't very user friendly either

has anyone ever tried to geton stage and sing? all the closet critics come out

believe me

and it is always easier, it seems, to believe the lie than prove the truth

**darkkodiak** · 04-29-2008, 10:53 PM

I for one usually give the given authority figure some due respect because well, they are there for a reason and then determine if they deserve more of my respect base on whether they actually earned that authority and act accordingly.

**True Rune** · 04-30-2008, 01:51 PM

They don't get anymore respect then they earn. If someone proves they're worth following, then I will follow them. This has happened.

**mkay** · 04-30-2008, 02:21 PM

Depends what I'm trying to accomplish. I won't agree when someone in authority is being stupid, but I disagree openly selectively, like when I think it will make a difference or it is a matter of principle. If it doesn't serve me -- goalwise or principlewise, I need a logical reason to thwart authority. Otherwise, I consider it a waste of my energy.

If the whole management structure above me is stupid, I go work elsewhere.

If I think someone is truly stupid, I can usually work myself around him/her if I think it's worthwhile. But I generally try to limit contact with stupid authority figures.

Oh, when I'm in charge, I'm open to conflicting viewpoints and acknowledging ideas that are better than mine. But if someone who works for me is just trying to be defiant repeatedly, I will take his/her head off in front of everyone. Basically, if you can't show collegial respect, you can go find another job. But I feel the same way about colleagues treating one another that way; if I see someone repeatedly disrespecting a colleague and I'm in charge of that person, I will take that person aside and point it out. If the behavior is repeated, that person is dead meat.

**Antares** · 04-30-2008, 06:01 PM

If this is about religion, then I must say even if I believe in God, better yet, even if he exists, I won't move a muscle to worship him. And government... Screw them. We should make them fear us.

**Motor Jax** · 05-01-2008, 06:57 AM

precisely (except the worship part)

but i'm all for your gov't part

**antisocial one** · 05-04-2008, 04:27 AM

Please explain me what is authority?
Is it something you put on bread during breakfast?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

(read between lines)

**Motor Jax** · 05-04-2008, 06:10 AM

oh, not just gov't... just anybody that has a little authority over someone else?

well, do you have kids?

**fonmaneal** · 05-04-2008, 07:41 AM

I dont quite understand the point of this. What or who are you refering to?

You must part of a group for there to be someone in "authority".
That person then has the "right" to give commands, enforce obedience in others of that group or in those that group subjagates.

People are selfcentered, mean, greedy, animals. What more needs to be said?

**FrankieBones** · 05-04-2008, 07:43 AM

Power lies where people believe it lies.

**Motor Jax** · 05-04-2008, 07:47 AM

and throughout the history of humanity, even the animal kingdom, has someone/something in the place of power

**sriv** · 05-04-2008, 10:35 AM

	Originally Posted by FrankieBones To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Power lies where people believe it lies.

Even though the true power may lie behind.

**WiredBrain** · 05-04-2008, 05:44 PM

	Originally Posted by FrankieBones To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Power lies where people believe it lies.

I totally agree with that. Authority is no more than concept that lies on how each individual watch it's world, and as so, one should be aware if some entity really deserves to be treated as authority, depending on the circumstances, and not be afraid of that authority because of a supposed "power" position.

**IgnoranceIsKind** · 05-04-2008, 11:04 PM

	Originally Posted by WiredBrain To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I totally agree with that. Authority is no more than concept that lies on how each individual watch it's world, and as so, one should be aware if some entity really deserves to be treated as authority, depending on the circumstances, and not be afraid of that authority because of a supposed "power" position.

That's right.

No persons should command authority merely because their title says so. It is something which must be earned.

**mental drift** · 05-05-2008, 12:25 AM

This is the problem I have with the government and police authority system. The government oversteps its bounds, is corrupt, and is too big. The police enforce laws they generally break, ie. most speeding, and many worse. But then both of these groups demand respect. So while I dislike the system I'm stuck in it. And yes it could be a lot worse, but they still lack my respect.

As far as authority in work, it's good, helpful, and sometimes necessary, as long as the person is not an idiot, or a hypocrite, and doesn't waste my time it's fine with me.

04-19-2008, 05:02 AM	#1
IgnoranceIsKind Member [11%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 445	Frankly speaking, I see it as relative rather than absolute. For both figures and regulations, that is. The only two reasons that would make me heed to any authority would be because a) It makes perfect sense that would result in edifying me as a character, of which its evaluation comes only from me and not the opinions of others. b) I respect the person, who must be smart and efficient in their respective duties. In which case, point a is nullified because I trust this person to know what they are doing. If any of the the aforementioned criterions are not met, I would then do things my own way. And inevitably, it often gets me into trouble. I honestly feel that respect for authority must be earned. There is absolutely no way I would heed to a person or rule just because I have to; it just doesn't make any sense. Just because you are my teacher doesn't automatically make you superior to me, that opinion must be earned. I believe in meritocracy. But as far as the notion of authority is concerned, it is mindless surrender. A cultivation of the Hive Mind (herd mentality) that impedes individuality.
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04-19-2008, 05:19 AM	#2
Phrixos Member [02%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 112	If it is given and achieves a desired result, then yes. From Business perspective: Putting an authoritarian in charge of subordinates with required skill could prove a well managed team.
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04-27-2008, 07:51 AM	#3
RedOwen333 New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 12	It would appear that people naturally form themselves into heirachies - this seems to happen in every organisation. That is surely what authority is - a reflection of your position in a heirachy. INTJ people are noted for not merely conforming to the heirachy and respecting those people who earn their respect. Our ability to see outside the limitations of a heirachy can be a blessing and a curse, but there's no way I'd give up mine!
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04-27-2008, 08:08 AM	#4
Motor Jax Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,105	you know, when the government was built by the people, for the people, it was the people that authority was afraid of but now, people are now afraid of authority, when it is authority that is suppose to protect its people, not scare them and make them worship i'm not one for authority, it just seems to me like authority used to be the step-dad and the people are the kids. and at first, authority was timid and really didn't want to piss the kids off and wanted to fit right into the family. but then over time, the step-dad authority had become the abuser and punisher it just doesn't ring well with me is all, but that's my own opinion
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04-27-2008, 08:59 AM	#5
knitteratheart New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 34	Wow, Motor Jax, what did your step-dad do to you? Anyways, I think it's part of our INTJness not to respect authority because it's authority. I mean, I understand why authority is needed in this world, but I also don't think it's absolute. Authority should be more of a role model instead of an enforcer.
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04-27-2008, 09:40 AM	#6
Motor Jax Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,105	yeah, i guess i still have hard feelings about what happened back then, even though it has been 12 yrs ago that we finally left it just seems though, that people in authority take the law into their own hands but these times aren't very user friendly either has anyone ever tried to geton stage and sing? all the closet critics come out believe me and it is always easier, it seems, to believe the lie than prove the truth
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04-29-2008, 10:53 PM	#7
darkkodiak New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 71	I for one usually give the given authority figure some due respect because well, they are there for a reason and then determine if they deserve more of my respect base on whether they actually earned that authority and act accordingly.
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04-30-2008, 01:51 PM	#8
True Rune Core Member [201%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 8,062	They don't get anymore respect then they earn. If someone proves they're worth following, then I will follow them. This has happened.
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04-30-2008, 02:21 PM	#9
mkay Member [29%] MBTI: ENTP Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,171	Depends what I'm trying to accomplish. I won't agree when someone in authority is being stupid, but I disagree openly selectively, like when I think it will make a difference or it is a matter of principle. If it doesn't serve me -- goalwise or principlewise, I need a logical reason to thwart authority. Otherwise, I consider it a waste of my energy. If the whole management structure above me is stupid, I go work elsewhere. If I think someone is truly stupid, I can usually work myself around him/her if I think it's worthwhile. But I generally try to limit contact with stupid authority figures. Oh, when I'm in charge, I'm open to conflicting viewpoints and acknowledging ideas that are better than mine. But if someone who works for me is just trying to be defiant repeatedly, I will take his/her head off in front of everyone. Basically, if you can't show collegial respect, you can go find another job. But I feel the same way about colleagues treating one another that way; if I see someone repeatedly disrespecting a colleague and I'm in charge of that person, I will take that person aside and point it out. If the behavior is repeated, that person is dead meat.
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04-30-2008, 06:01 PM	#10
Antares Core Member [175%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 7,012	If this is about religion, then I must say even if I believe in God, better yet, even if he exists, I won't move a muscle to worship him. And government... Screw them. We should make them fear us.
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05-01-2008, 06:57 AM	#11
Motor Jax Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,105	precisely (except the worship part) but i'm all for your gov't part
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05-04-2008, 04:27 AM	#12
antisocial one Member [05%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 216	Please explain me what is authority? Is it something you put on bread during breakfast? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (read between lines)
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05-04-2008, 06:10 AM	#13
Motor Jax Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,105	oh, not just gov't... just anybody that has a little authority over someone else? well, do you have kids?
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05-04-2008, 07:41 AM	#14
fonmaneal Member [10%] MBTI: intj Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 403	I dont quite understand the point of this. What or who are you refering to? You must part of a group for there to be someone in "authority". That person then has the "right" to give commands, enforce obedience in others of that group or in those that group subjagates. People are selfcentered, mean, greedy, animals. What more needs to be said?
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05-04-2008, 07:43 AM	#15
FrankieBones New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 16	Power lies where people believe it lies.
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05-04-2008, 07:47 AM	#16
Motor Jax Veteran Member [52%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 2,105	and throughout the history of humanity, even the animal kingdom, has someone/something in the place of power
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05-05-2008, 12:25 AM	#20
mental drift Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 330	This is the problem I have with the government and police authority system. The government oversteps its bounds, is corrupt, and is too big. The police enforce laws they generally break, ie. most speeding, and many worse. But then both of these groups demand respect. So while I dislike the system I'm stuck in it. And yes it could be a lot worse, but they still lack my respect. As far as authority in work, it's good, helpful, and sometimes necessary, as long as the person is not an idiot, or a hypocrite, and doesn't waste my time it's fine with me.
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