[Mickehh]

	Originally Posted by bdz To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	ENTP: music with witty lyrics, music that doesn't follow the traditional verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus outline

That would also match INTP.

[SShack]

Originally Posted by IdentityClick To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Lol, I highly doubt that there are any decent INTJ musicians, or any decent T musicians for that matter PERIOD. T musicians quite frankly don't have the imagination to manufacture any kind of decent music. They can certainly get wrapped up in the technical aspects of it, though, even if they'd hardly be able to efficiently pull off any music with real meaning or entertainment value behind it. Nope, he isn't. He's way too insightful into human nature and life around him to be a T. It doesn't surprise that an INTJ or an ENTJ would be the types cocky enough to claim someone they admire as one of their own, though.

You really, really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally need to read more about MBTI, particularly NTs.


Really.

[IdentityClick]

	Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You really, really, really, reaaaaaaaaaally need to read more about MBTI, particularly NTs. Really.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Care to elaborate on what I've got wrong here? Do you honestly think that the NT method of technicalizing creates better music than what NF's can create?

If one understands the underlying theories of MBTI, they'll know the following:

- Music is about creating sounds that are emotionally pleasing. That's why people choose to listen to it. And, naturally, feelers would have a better sense than thinkers as to what 'sounds' more emotionally pleasing. That gives NF's the advantage over NT's in writing music.

- NF's, by nature, are more imaginative than NT's. F enhances N and leads to an NF inner life more vivid and richer than that of the NT inner life. Thus, an NF would able to create music that is deeper and more creative than that of an NT.

- Feelers are more empathetic and have a deeper understanding of the emotional context of society and other people. That's what allows Marilyn Manson to create lyrics that're so emotionally adept.

- The one advantage that NT's would have over NF's in creating music would be technical proficiency. Most people don't look for technical proficiency in music, though. They look for music that's evocative and imaginative. Unfortunately, NT's here seem to think that technical precision can be mistaken for good music, when it can't.

[Aristocrat Porn]

	Originally Posted by Shorgenfunkel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Last time I checked, emo was emo. Rock, however, was rock. Where do you get your information?

I guess no one ever taught you not to use the word your defining in the definition. As to rock being emo and that somehow being related to intjs, i'm also clueless.

[SShack]

Originally Posted by IdentityClick To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Care to elaborate on what I've got wrong here? Do you honestly think that the NT method of technicalizing creates better music than what NF's can create? If one understands the underlying theories of MBTI, they'll know the following: - Music is about creating sounds that are emotionally pleasing. That's why people choose to listen to it. And, naturally, feelers would have a better sense than thinkers as to what 'sounds' more emotionally pleasing. That gives NF's the advantage over NT's in writing music. - NF's, by nature, are more imaginative than NT's. F enhances N and leads to an NF inner life more vivid and richer than that of the NT inner life. Thus, an NF would able to create music that is deeper and more creative than that of an NT. - Feelers are more empathetic and have a deeper understanding of the emotional context of society and other people. That's what allows Marilyn Manson to create lyrics that're so emotionally adept. - The one advantage that NT's would have over NF's in creating music would be technical proficiency. Most people don't look for technical proficiency in music, though. They look for music that's evocative and imaginative. Unfortunately, NT's here seem to think that technical precision can be mistaken for good music, when it can't.

First of all, don't put words in my mouth, okay? There's nothing in your initial post that stated a competition between NTs and NFs.

You did say something, however, so breathtakingly ridiculous that I just have to highlight it:

	T musicians quite frankly don't have the imagination to manufacture any kind of decent music

You are completely confusing the T/F axis and the N/S axis. NTs are exactly as imaginative as NFs because they are both intuitives. The T/F function has absolutely nothing to do with imagination. It is the decision-making component of a person's type. It has absolutely no bearing on a person's competency with the arts or any creative process -- only their decisions on the manner by which they express them.

Your statements are confusing STs with NTs. STs are "technicians." NTs are innovators. Rational, yes, but also imaginative.

[IdentityClick]

	NTs are exactly as imaginative as NFs because they are both intuitives.

No, they aren't. F enhances imagination and makes it more vivid. And no, it can't be disputed. It's a fact. Do some research and you'll see that it's one of the things typologists noticed when they studied NF's. That's why NF's are known for being more empathetic, because they're more able to imagine themselves in other people's situations.

It's one of the basic ideas of MBTI. NF's are described as being more imaginative and creative. NT's are described as being more inventive and technically proficient. If you look at official personality descriptions, INFP's and INFJ's in particular are described as having the "richest" inner lives of all types.

There's a reason why NF's are called the quintissential 'idealists' and 'dreamers', which are terms that our society gives to people with powerful imaginations. It's interesting that you should tell me that I'm the one who needs to read into MBTI more when you don't even know one of the most basic ideas of MBTI- the NF imagination.





IdentityClick added to this post, 13 minutes and 59 seconds later...

Sshack, I recommend actually googling INFJ and INFP type descriptions and comparing them to INTJ and INTP type descriptions. Just look at the way the types are described, and you'll see that the NF's are often described as being more creative/imaginative and having richer inner lives. If you don't want to take my word for it, then do the research.

It seems to me that you're basing your ideas about type on what you see here on the INTJ forum, which isn't a good idea because of most of what is said on this site is very inaccurate and based on wishful thinking more than anything else. If there's one quality about INTJ's that stands out the most, it's that they have profoundly inflated views of their own abilities. Obviously, that applies to all NT's. It applies especially to INTJ's, though. It only makes sense that the group of NT's on this forum are so deluded that they don't realize that they have plenty of flaws, and there're things that NF's can do better than them.

[SShack]

Originally Posted by IdentityClick To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

No, they aren't. F enhances imagination and makes it more vivid. That's why NF's are known for being more empathetic, because they're more able to imagine themselves in other people's situations. It's one of the basic ideas of MBTI. NF's are described as being more imaginative and creative. NT's are described as being more inventive and technically proficient. If you look at official personality descriptions, INFP's and INFJ's in particular are described as having the "richest" inner lives of all types. There's a reason why NF's are called the quintissential 'idealists' and 'dreamers', which are terms that our society gives to people with powerful imaginations. It's interesting that you should tell me that I'm the one who needs to read into MBTI more when you don't even know one of the most basic ideas of MBTI- the NF imagination.

ENTPs are known as "visionaries." Since you seem to be so insistent on ranking imagination levels based superficial type descriptions, does a visionary have more or less imagination than a dreamer or idealist? Do you realize that "inventive" is the rational application of "imaginative" while "empathy" is the emotional application of "imaginative" (more particularly the Fe version, actually). Again, imagination is absolutely not tied to the T/F axis. It's the manner of application of the imagination.

Sshack, I recommend actually googling INFJ and INFP type descriptions and comparing them to INTJ and INTP type descriptions. Just look at the way the types are described, and you'll see that the NF's are often described as being more creative/imaginative and having richer inner lives. It seems to me that you're basing your ideas about type on what you see here on the INTJ forum, which isn't a good idea because of most of what is said on this site is very inaccurate and based on wishful thinking more than anything else. If there's one quality about INTJ's that stands out the most, it's that they have profoundly inflated views of their own abilities. Obviously, that applies to all NT's. It applies especially to INTJ's, though. It only makes sense that the group of NT's on this forum are so deluded that they don't realize that they have plenty of flaws, and there're things that NF's can do better than them.

I really, really, REALLY don't need your assistance in understanding the types. And as we're getting way off the topic of music, I'll just wish you luck during your stay here on these forums and leave it at that.

[IdentityClick]

	Do you realize that "inventive" is the rational application of "imaginative" while "empathy" is the emotional application of "imaginative" (more particularly the Fe version, actually). Again, imagination is absolutely not tied to the T/F axis. It's the manner of application of the imagination.

Is this a misunderstanding of words, then? Because I definitely agree that NT's are more 'inventive' than NF's, whereas NF's are more 'imaginative' than NT's.

I think NT's make better scientific inventors and are better at presenting logical ideas whereas NF's make better creative writers and are better at presenting emotional ideas. Do you agree with that?

[lemallard]

Let's keep this simple: John Lennon was an INTP, God rest his soul. If that isn't enough to settle the issue about a T being creative enough to be a musician, then nothing ever will.