Wikileaks Founder "Legal Circus"

**Mogura** · 09-02-2010, 04:39 PM

For those of you that have been following the latest drama (rape/molestation* charges brought against Assange, rape charges dropped, rape charges reinstated, etc., etc.), what do you make of it? Assange asserts that it's a smear campaign lodged against him by... well, he didn't say, but you-know-who... as a result of Wikileaks' previous release of classified documents, as well as the present release of a CIA document. The timing of it all is uncanny. As no evidence has been produced thus far, it's difficult to say. But he does have something that the US government wants, and the US government does have a track record in, well... getting its way... or at least, trying (through outside-the-law means)...

Thoughts?

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

*Apparently, according to Swedish law, stalking, harrassment, etc. can be considered "molestation"

**Holiman** · 09-02-2010, 05:17 PM

I find this heartening myself, this man pissed a covert agency in arguably the most powerful nation in the world very publically. If this is an attack by them it shows an ineptness as I have always believed that group to actually deliver. If however he is guilty or deserving of this himself might take a court to decide.

**Ytterbium** · 09-03-2010, 02:30 PM

Could be some kind of set-up but from what I've read I think it's more of their personal 15 minutes fame. I don't think these women work for someone.

**Doggzilla** · 09-04-2010, 06:14 AM

From what I have read by former CIA agents, this seems like it bears the marks of someone who has some relation to them.
The CIA does not go out of its way to make itself known. When they need someone's help, they do not introduce themselves as a CIA agent who desperately needs your help to protect the free world. The way they operate is much like a college troublemaker.
A typical "operation" can be as low as giving someone diarrhea in order to cause them to miss a meeting, all the way up to planting information and introducing it to someone who can have a negative effect on the person. They usually recruit people with stories which reach out to others, and usually not in a political way. For instance, in order to attack an important scientist, an agent will convince civilians that he has done something to someone, and therefore needs to be punished. I dont mean they tell them that he is about to kill everyone on the planet, they use common things which grab people's sympathy, like "He killed my neighbor's cat" or "He made so-so lose his job".
One such case was when a CIA operative was kicked out of his apartment after he brought a woman home for the night. He convinced another tenant that the landlord needed to be taught a lesson, and so the remaining tenant would place signs with inflammatory remarks about the CIA agent in the windows of the hallways in the apartment building. The CIA agent recruited a lawyer to call and harass the woman with threats of lawsuits, and after several attempts, the landlord eventually broke down and never bothered anybody again.
Neither the tenant or lawyer knew they were involved in a CIA operation to pay someone back, but they were the main vehicles of revenge. This is how the majority of operations appear to work.
There are also other operations, very childish ones, like placing the target's number in the classified section of an adult paper, and then helping the ad find its way to someone who will make sure the person feels the most pain from it.
If th CIA wanted to screw with wikileaks, its going to indirectly encourage people to cause it problems. Even if the issues are false, it doesnt matter, because we all know people are superficial. This appears to be what the CIA thrives on.

**deedub** · 09-04-2010, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by Doggzilla
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One such case was when a CIA operative was kicked out of his apartment after he brought a woman home for the night. He convinced another tenant that the landlord needed to be taught a lesson, and so the remaining tenant would place signs with inflammatory remarks about the CIA agent in the windows of the hallways in the apartment building. The CIA agent recruited a lawyer to call and harass the woman with threats of lawsuits, and after several attempts, the landlord eventually broke down and never bothered anybody again.
Neither the tenant or lawyer knew they were involved in a CIA operation to pay someone back, but they were the main vehicles of revenge. This is how the majority of operations appear to work.

This seems a little fishy to me. This does not strike me as a CIA operation. This sounds more like a vengeful guy who's a bit of a dick. Also, unless the woman was going to be living with the man and not on the lease why would the landlord care who he has over for the night?

**Booko** · 09-04-2010, 06:51 PM

It's hard to say. Assange certainly has given the CIA cause to find a way to punish him. On the other hand, he seems rather full of himself, and guys like that have been known to not quite understand that a woman really isn't interested in him, since he thinks he's God's Gift to Women.

**Pandemonium** · 09-04-2010, 07:13 PM

Assange is pretty damn skinny I don't really think he could coerce anyone. In addition, such acts do not really fit his persona.

**Danisty** · 09-04-2010, 10:39 PM

	Originally Posted by Pandemonium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Assange is pretty damn skinny I don't really think he could coerce anyone. In addition, such acts do not really fit his persona.

I wasn't aware that you had to have a particular persona to be a rapist. Who's to say that the persona you see is who he is? It's actually kind of interesting you used that word given its definition. I also wasn't aware that only large guys could be intimidating.

**Booko** · 09-04-2010, 11:10 PM

Hell, you don't even have to be intimidating to rape someone. All you have to do is slip them a mickey, which is amazingly easier these days than it once was.

**Danisty** · 09-04-2010, 11:46 PM

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Hell, you don't even have to be intimidating to rape someone. All you have to do is slip them a mickey, which is amazingly easier these days than it once was.

Good point. Also, if a person was a rapist, wouldn't they more than likely not want to act like a rapist?

**Mogura** · 09-04-2010, 11:57 PM

I think if there was any substance to the rape charges, he'd be in jail by now...

**thod** · 09-05-2010, 12:55 AM

They don't seem to have a very good job of it. The best evidence would be a DNA sample from a vaginal swab. That would make it hard to argue that contact had occurred leaving only the issue of consent. Surely they could break into his appartment and obtain some old hairs from a hairbrush to make the DNA sample. The agent would apply it to herself prior to making the charge and before the swab was taken. Get a few more agents to say they saw them together, maybe arguing, to strengthen the case.

**Pandemonium** · 09-05-2010, 02:26 AM

	Originally Posted by Danisty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wasn't aware that you had to have a particular persona to be a rapist. Who's to say that the persona you see is who he is? It's actually kind of interesting you used that word given its definition.

I purposely chose the word for what it implies.

	Originally Posted by Danisty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I also wasn't aware that only large guys could be intimidating.

Do you find skinny guys in which typing on a keyboard is the sole constituent of their exercise regime intimidating? Perhaps, Assange is like the hulk.

---

For a person to be in the situation he is in, leaking information and pissing off governments, that person would need to maintain an absolutely perfect record in regards to such offenses and if that person was wise they would know this. It would not make sense for someone in his position to be so careless.

Maybe the accusations have some elements of truth. We will have to wait to find out.

**zibber** · 09-05-2010, 02:31 AM

Second I read about it, I was sure this is no coincidence.

It's pretty blatant, though. Not as blatant as shooting at civilians from a helicopter, but pretty blatant.

larkin · 09-05-2010, 02:30 PM

	Originally Posted by Doggzilla To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	From what I have read by former CIA agents, this seems like it bears the marks of someone who has some relation to them. [...]

Yep, and everything or even most of what you read about the CIA is true.

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think if there was any substance to the rape charges, he'd be in jail by now...

Also, rapists always go to prison.

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Second I read about it, I was sure this is no coincidence.

Because the CIA is stupid enough to think that if Assange goes away, so will Wikileaks?

Although he certainly does seem to enjoy whining about it - almost like he's surprised when there are consequences for his actions.

**Booko** · 09-05-2010, 03:04 PM

	Originally Posted by Danisty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Good point. Also, if a person was a rapist, wouldn't they more than likely not want to act like a rapist?

That's been my experience, yeah.

---------- Post added 09-05-2010 at 06:06 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think if there was any substance to the rape charges, he'd be in jail by now...

Not necessarily. I don't know anything about Swedish law or how their law enforcement works, other than there do seem to be some significant differences from how things go in the U.S. Maybe their process isn't as rushed as it is elsewhere?

Aside from that, I'd point out that Roman Polanski has been free for years now, and there sure as hell is substance to the charges against him.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

---------- Post added 09-05-2010 at 06:10 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by larkin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Because the CIA is stupid enough to think that if Assange goes away, so will Wikileaks?

As a purely practical aside, the CIA doesn't have to make Assange go away to get a message out that anyone who irks them will pay a price. It would dissuade quite a number of potential Wikileaks-wannabes from doing what he's done.


	Although he certainly does seem to enjoy whining about it - almost like he's surprised when there are consequences for his actions.

Well, that's why I can't quite figure this one out. Yeah, the CIA sure has reason, but Assange does seem a bit on the narcissitic side, so it's entirely possible his actions are just coming back to haunt him with no interference by any foreign gov't agency.

**Danisty** · 09-05-2010, 03:21 PM

	Originally Posted by Pandemonium To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Do you find skinny guys in which typing on a keyboard is the sole constituent of their exercise regime intimidating? Perhaps, Assange is like the hulk.

I don't judge people's potential for anger and violence based on their size. The guy who tried to rape me was a pretty small guy and it was plenty scary.

**Booko** · 09-05-2010, 03:30 PM

	Originally Posted by Danisty To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I don't judge people's potential for anger and violence based on their size. The guy who tried to rape me was a pretty small guy and it was plenty scary.

Size means squat if a rapist is quick and has the element of surprise.

**chaostheory** · 09-05-2010, 04:07 PM

Assange is just looking for attention in my opinion, I mean..if the government really gave two hoots he would of been found in a dumpster behind a sweat shop in China by now.

I don't buy into the entire "leak" story. It's too just too..strange.

**RBM** · 09-05-2010, 04:37 PM

	Originally Posted by chaostheory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Assange is just looking for attention in my opinion, I mean..if the government really gave two hoots he would of been found in a dumpster behind a sweat shop in China by now. I don't buy into the entire "leak" story. It's too just too..strange.

While I agree with the essential meaning you intend, I would note, there are many points that 'the government' was is actuality a 'rogue' element with in 'the government' - which has similarity to Doggzilla's point.

**Mogura** · 09-05-2010, 04:47 PM

	Originally Posted by chaostheory To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Assange is just looking for attention in my opinion

A lot of his critics hold a similar view. However, when I watch him in interviews, I don't get the attention-seeking vibe. Clearly, he is uncomfortable in the public spotlight (e.g., on camera), whereas a true attention whore would be eating it up, enjoying their 15 seconds of fame. In addition, an attention whore would be enjoying any kind of publicity, positive or negative. Assange clearly isn't enjoying the attention (judging from the interview)...

**JohnDoe** · 09-05-2010, 05:49 PM

Yeah I don't know the whole thing just smells wrong. I mean he raped two girls who just happened to know each other who happened to tell each other about getting raped on (in the biggest coincidence ever) subsequent nights? And in both cases they willingly went with him so the case is entirely he said she said about the nature of the sex? And he is wanted for rape, not wanted for rape, oh wait we screwed up he is wanted again? I mean I'll be the first to say that Assange seems like a grade A jerk but there are way too many coincidences involved here. Not saying it is a CIA op, but definitely a bizarre case even by normal standards.

**cannotseethe** · 09-05-2010, 06:08 PM

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

09-02-2010, 04:39 PM	#1
Mogura Core Member [175%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,031	For those of you that have been following the latest drama (rape/molestation* charges brought against Assange, rape charges dropped, rape charges reinstated, etc., etc.), what do you make of it? Assange asserts that it's a smear campaign lodged against him by... well, he didn't say, but you-know-who... as a result of Wikileaks' previous release of classified documents, as well as the present release of a CIA document. The timing of it all is uncanny. As no evidence has been produced thus far, it's difficult to say. But he does have something that the US government wants, and the US government does have a track record in, well... getting its way... or at least, trying (through outside-the-law means)... Thoughts? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. *Apparently, according to Swedish law, stalking, harrassment, etc. can be considered "molestation"
Mogura is offline post a comment

09-02-2010, 05:17 PM	#2
Holiman Member [31%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,253	I find this heartening myself, this man pissed a covert agency in arguably the most powerful nation in the world very publically. If this is an attack by them it shows an ineptness as I have always believed that group to actually deliver. If however he is guilty or deserving of this himself might take a court to decide.
Holiman is offline post a comment

09-03-2010, 02:30 PM	#3
Ytterbium Veteran Member [73%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,927	Could be some kind of set-up but from what I've read I think it's more of their personal 15 minutes fame. I don't think these women work for someone.
Ytterbium is offline post a comment

09-04-2010, 06:14 AM	#4
Doggzilla Member [37%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,483	From what I have read by former CIA agents, this seems like it bears the marks of someone who has some relation to them. The CIA does not go out of its way to make itself known. When they need someone's help, they do not introduce themselves as a CIA agent who desperately needs your help to protect the free world. The way they operate is much like a college troublemaker. A typical "operation" can be as low as giving someone diarrhea in order to cause them to miss a meeting, all the way up to planting information and introducing it to someone who can have a negative effect on the person. They usually recruit people with stories which reach out to others, and usually not in a political way. For instance, in order to attack an important scientist, an agent will convince civilians that he has done something to someone, and therefore needs to be punished. I dont mean they tell them that he is about to kill everyone on the planet, they use common things which grab people's sympathy, like "He killed my neighbor's cat" or "He made so-so lose his job". One such case was when a CIA operative was kicked out of his apartment after he brought a woman home for the night. He convinced another tenant that the landlord needed to be taught a lesson, and so the remaining tenant would place signs with inflammatory remarks about the CIA agent in the windows of the hallways in the apartment building. The CIA agent recruited a lawyer to call and harass the woman with threats of lawsuits, and after several attempts, the landlord eventually broke down and never bothered anybody again. Neither the tenant or lawyer knew they were involved in a CIA operation to pay someone back, but they were the main vehicles of revenge. This is how the majority of operations appear to work. There are also other operations, very childish ones, like placing the target's number in the classified section of an adult paper, and then helping the ad find its way to someone who will make sure the person feels the most pain from it. If th CIA wanted to screw with wikileaks, its going to indirectly encourage people to cause it problems. Even if the issues are false, it doesnt matter, because we all know people are superficial. This appears to be what the CIA thrives on. Last edited by Doggzilla; 09-04-2010 at 08:35 AM.
Doggzilla is offline post a comment

09-04-2010, 06:51 PM	#6
Booko Veteran Member [87%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,502	It's hard to say. Assange certainly has given the CIA cause to find a way to punish him. On the other hand, he seems rather full of himself, and guys like that have been known to not quite understand that a woman really isn't interested in him, since he thinks he's God's Gift to Women.
Booko is offline post a comment

09-04-2010, 07:13 PM	#7
Pandemonium Veteran Member [53%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 2,120	Assange is pretty damn skinny I don't really think he could coerce anyone. In addition, such acts do not really fit his persona.
Pandemonium is offline post a comment

09-04-2010, 11:10 PM	#9
Booko Veteran Member [87%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,502	Hell, you don't even have to be intimidating to rape someone. All you have to do is slip them a mickey, which is amazingly easier these days than it once was.
Booko is offline post a comment

09-04-2010, 11:57 PM	#11
Mogura Core Member [175%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 7,031	I think if there was any substance to the rape charges, he'd be in jail by now...
Mogura is offline post a comment

09-05-2010, 12:55 AM	#12
thod Core Member [163%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 6,530	They don't seem to have a very good job of it. The best evidence would be a DNA sample from a vaginal swab. That would make it hard to argue that contact had occurred leaving only the issue of consent. Surely they could break into his appartment and obtain some old hairs from a hairbrush to make the DNA sample. The agent would apply it to herself prior to making the charge and before the swab was taken. Get a few more agents to say they saw them together, maybe arguing, to strengthen the case.
thod is online post a comment

09-05-2010, 02:31 AM	#14
zibber Core Member [407%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 16,303	Second I read about it, I was sure this is no coincidence. It's pretty blatant, though. Not as blatant as shooting at civilians from a helicopter, but pretty blatant.
zibber is offline post a comment

09-05-2010, 04:07 PM	#19
chaostheory Member [20%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 814	Assange is just looking for attention in my opinion, I mean..if the government really gave two hoots he would of been found in a dumpster behind a sweat shop in China by now. I don't buy into the entire "leak" story. It's too just too..strange.
chaostheory is offline post a comment

09-05-2010, 05:49 PM	#22
JohnDoe Core Member [130%] MBTI: INFJ Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,203	Yeah I don't know the whole thing just smells wrong. I mean he raped two girls who just happened to know each other who happened to tell each other about getting raped on (in the biggest coincidence ever) subsequent nights? And in both cases they willingly went with him so the case is entirely he said she said about the nature of the sex? And he is wanted for rape, not wanted for rape, oh wait we screwed up he is wanted again? I mean I'll be the first to say that Assange seems like a grade A jerk but there are way too many coincidences involved here. Not saying it is a CIA op, but definitely a bizarre case even by normal standards.
JohnDoe is offline post a comment

09-05-2010, 06:08 PM	#23
cannotseethe Core Member [309%] MBTI: eXXX Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 12,385	To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .
cannotseethe is offline post a comment