INFP - INTJ Romance (?)

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 01:08 PM

Hi, INTJs
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Female INFP here.

I'm currently in an e-relationship with an INTJ. I think he's great! He's insecure socially, and he's holding the relationship at bay (i.e., postponing meeting each other). I've asked him why he's doing this and he responds by saying he's afraid I won't like him after I meet him.

Although I believe that this is *part* of the situation, I have the feeling there is more to it.

He asks questions about me (which is manna in heaven to an INFP), so I wonder if he's trying to discern whether I'm "worthy" of his commitment.

Do you, as INTJs, think I'm on the right track?

Thanks for your help!

P.S. If you have any questions regarding the mysteries of the INFP mind, I'll be happy to offer my thoughts.
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**bikerscars** · 10-13-2007, 01:22 PM

in general many social situations for us is at best uncomfortable and we feel like we are performing for others (always being judged/ not wanting to be misunderstood)

get him out by going to an event/restaurant/nature setting where he feels comfortable...good luck with that

it's not you- it's us

i could be wrong 'cause i don't know your particular situation

if he was not interested in you he would not waste time online with you

**r21left** · 10-13-2007, 01:28 PM

Also, don't be surprised if he's much more reserved and stoic, even to the point of near-paralysis, when you meet him in person. He probably communicates much "better" online and in-person communication will be kind of a shock, what with all the non-verbal cues and subtext and so on. May take a few IRL "sessions" to get comfortable by forging a physical intimacy (not necessarily romantic, just physical in the sense of you actually being there).

Good luck!

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 01:29 PM

"get him out by going to an event/restaurant/nature setting where he feels comfortable...good luck with that "

Forgive me. I left out some critical information.

In order for us to meet, we'd have to cross several (large) states. He is the one who would have to pay for it, as I'm your typical poor INFP.
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Understandably, this may have something to do with it. I don't know, because if *I* had the money to pay for it, there would be absolutely no question at all: we would have met lightyears ago. (Is "lightyear" one word?)

Thanks for your input, I truly appreciate it.
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**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 01:32 PM

	Originally Posted by r21left
	Also, don't be surprised if he's much more reserved and stoic, even to the point of near-paralysis, when you meet him in person.!

I'll definitely keep this in mind.

I might have read his stoicism as, "I'm not interested. I wish we'd never done this."

Thanks.

**r21left** · 10-13-2007, 01:33 PM

I missed that offer to gauge the mind of an INFP... I dated one of your "kind" not too long ago. It was fascinating. Unfortunately, we weren't all that compatible (but we sure did come close). The bottom line was that we were capable of forging a deep bond, but sadly not a romantic one.

What I wanted to know about INFPs...

1. what is this "fantasy world" I keep hearing about? What does it look like? What triggers it? What do you use it for? Why?

2. How do you communicate? Do you speak more in terms of values (Fi) or possibilities and interconnectedness (Ne)?

3. What is it about INTJs that attracts you to us?

4. (This one is quite sensitive) Why is paralysis and over-thinking an issue for INFPs?

I think that's enough for now... thanks for tackling any or all of the above. I look forward to your insights!

**r21left** · 10-13-2007, 01:35 PM

	Originally Posted by OnSecondThought
	Understandably, this may have something to do with it. I don't know, because if I* had the money to pay for it, there would be absolutely no question at all: we would have met lightyears ago. *(Is "lightyear" one word?)

Lightyear is indeed one word, but it's actually a unit of distance (9.46 x 10^15 meters).
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**MichaelH** · 10-13-2007, 01:39 PM

bikerscars is right - that fact that he's communicating with you says he's interested.

INTJs as a rule _HATE_ boring social interaction. We see it as unfulfilling and unproductive. Plus, as bikerscars mentioned, we feel awkward being social. It's just not natural for us.

See if there's something specific to go _do_ together. There should be a purpose to the meeting. Yes, "hang out and get to know each other and maybe snog" is a purpose, but there should be a more direct useful point than that. Watching a movie would give you both something to discuss afterwards. Maybe ask him what some of his favorite restaurants are, and if he could introduce you to one. It's important to let him be in control of the event place and time, and it should have an easy exit for him if he needs to leave early. (It's an INTJ thing...)

If you both play computer games, a LAN party would be natural. (!)

If you can both go somewhere where there's an outside interest to explore - a zoo, a computer show, a planetarium - it will take some of the pressure off him to be "social".

If it helps any, the awkwardness is almost certainly his own insecurity rather than any doubts about you.

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 02:39 PM

r21left,

I had a nice, thorough response to your INFP questions, but the site logged me out and now it is gone.
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I'll write it again in notepad or something and then repost.

Argh!!

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 02:47 PM

	Originally Posted by MichaelH
	bikerscars is right - that fact that he's communicating with you says he's interested. . . . If it helps any, the awkwardness is almost certainly his own insecurity rather than any doubts about you.

Yes, this brings much comfort. Thanks.
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	Originally Posted by MichaelH
	See if there's something specific to go _do_ together. There should be a purpose to the meeting. Yes, "hang out and get to know each other and maybe snog" is a purpose, but there should be a more direct useful point than that. Watching a movie would give you both something to discuss afterwards. Maybe ask him what some of his favorite restaurants are, and if he could introduce you to one.

My own insecurities are handled well this way, as well. *One more point of compatibility, perhaps? *:P

	Originally Posted by MichaelH
	It's important to let him be in control of the event place and time, and it should have an easy exit for him if he needs to leave early. (It's an INTJ thing...)

So, INTJs are afraid of getting into something they can't get out of? *Is that because they stick to something once it has been decided?

	Originally Posted by MichaelH
	If you can both go somewhere where there's an outside interest to explore - a zoo, a computer show, a planetarium - it will take some of the pressure off him to be "social".

Good call. *Thanks!

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by r21left

Originally Posted by OnSecondThought

Understandably, this may have something to do with it. *I don't know, because if *I* had the money to pay for it, there would be absolutely no question at all: we would have met lightyears ago. *(Is "lightyear" one word?)

Lightyear is indeed one word, but it's actually a unit of distance (9.46 x 10^15 meters). *
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O.M.G. I knew that! How embarrassing! :-[

**GOD** · 10-13-2007, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by OnSecondThought

Hi, INTJs *
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Female INFP here.

I'm currently in an e-relationship with an INTJ. *I think he's great! *He's insecure socially, and he's holding the relationship at bay (i.e., postponing meeting each other). *I've asked him why he's doing this and he responds by saying he's afraid I won't like him after I meet him. *

Although I believe that this is *part* of the situation, I have the feeling there is more to it. *

He asks questions about me (which is manna in heaven to an INFP), so I wonder if he's trying to discern whether I'm "worthy" of his commitment.

Do you, as INTJs, think I'm on the right track?

Thanks for your help!

P.S. *If you have any questions regarding the mysteries of the INFP mind, I'll be happy to offer my thoughts. *
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Whatever you do, don't do all this "mirroring" body language and stuff that appears in womens magazines... it will go straight over his head.

INTJ's guys are going to learn about those things after the relationship is dead (If they are sufficiently grieved). Sheeze... it took me a year of postmortem analysis to work out why my relationship with a particularly hot women crashed and burned... (She was always trying to get me more F and I just recoiled from all that touchy feely stuff, she did mirroring, she thought I had other girls going on the side, she was interested when I wasn't... and when I was she wasn't).

Quite frankly us INTJ guys probably want the Cherry 2000 from the same name cult 80's movie...
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" When Sam Treadwell breaks his Cherry 2000, a robot wife/sex toy, he hires E Johnson, to guide him across a dangerous apocalyptic wasteland to an abandoned manufacturing plant where he hopes to find a duplicate model Cherry 2000 to replace it with".

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 03:32 PM

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Whatever you do, don't do all this "mirroring" body language and stuff that appears in womens magazines... it will go straight over his head.

And that is what I soooo love about him. *He's so clueless it's endearing! *
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Because of this, I don't have to go through any of those silly hoops to express myself to him. *I simply tell him outright that I find him attractive. *He insists I'm mistaken in my appraisal. *<sigh>

Originally Posted by Veneti

INTJ's guys are going to learn about those things after the relationship is dead (If they are sufficiently grieved). Sheeze... it took me a year of postmortem analysis to work out why my relationship with a particularly hot women crashed and burned... (She was always trying to get me more F and I just recoiled from all that touchy feely stuff, she did mirroring, she thought I had other girls going on the side, she was interested when I wasn't... and when I was she wasn't).

Another thing: I won't mirror. *I find it disingenuous. *

You recoiled from the "touchy feely" stuff. *And now you have no hot woman. *Perhaps - and this is just a suggestion - instead of judging the expression of affection in derogatory terms, you might see it as a strength in others from which you can draw, just as you (maybe) wish for them to draw greater logical capabilities from your model. *
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Originally Posted by Veneti

Quite frankly us INTJ guys probably want the Cherry 2000 from the same name cult 80's movie...
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" When Sam Treadwell breaks his Cherry 2000, a robot wife/sex toy, he hires E Johnson, to guide him across a dangerous apocalyptic wasteland to an abandoned manufacturing plant where he hopes to find a duplicate model Cherry 2000 to replace it with".

How convenient it would be, if only it wouldn't drive the INTJ mad IRL.

Thankfully, my INTJ has point-blank told me that he is lacking in emotional connection - that he wants desperately to fill what he feels is a void in his life. *Wow. *
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**r21left** · 10-13-2007, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Veneti

[Whatever you do, don't do all this "mirroring" body language and stuff that appears in womens magazines... it will go straight over his head.

INTJ's guys are going to learn about those things after the relationship is dead (If they are sufficiently grieved). Sheeze... it took me a year of postmortem analysis to work out why my relationship with a particularly hot women crashed and burned... (She was always trying to get me more F and I just recoiled from all that touchy feely stuff, she did mirroring, she thought I had other girls going on the side, she was interested when I wasn't... and when I was she wasn't).

Sounds like the NT-NF Death Spiral.

**GOD** · 10-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

**
You recoiled from the "touchy feely" stuff. *And now you have no hot woman. *Perhaps - and this is just a suggestion - instead of judging the expression of affection in derogatory terms, you might see it as a strength in others from which you can draw, just as you (maybe) wish for them to draw greater logical capabilities from your model. *
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The touchy feely stuff was more in the sense of PDA's (Public displays of affection)...

INT's are reserved generally (I would assume).

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Veneti

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

**
You recoiled from the "touchy feely" stuff. *And now you have no hot woman. *Perhaps - and this is just a suggestion - instead of judging the expression of affection in derogatory terms, you might see it as a strength in others from which you can draw, just as you (maybe) wish for them to draw greater logical capabilities from your model. *
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The touchy feely stuff was more in the sense of PDA's (Public displays of affection)...

INT's are reserved generally (I would assume).

Veneti, was she an extrovert?

**GOD** · 10-13-2007, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

Originally Posted by Veneti

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

**
You recoiled from the "touchy feely" stuff. *And now you have no hot woman. *Perhaps - and this is just a suggestion - instead of judging the expression of affection in derogatory terms, you might see it as a strength in others from which you can draw, just as you (maybe) wish for them to draw greater logical capabilities from your model. *
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The touchy feely stuff was more in the sense of PDA's (Public displays of affection)...

INT's are reserved generally (I would assume).

Veneti, was she an extrovert?

She loved guys looking at her, she loved shopping and clothes. She showed me the video of the advertising commercial she was in, she believed as a guy if you liked a woman you simply went over and talked to her... But then again, very much of a family girl. Quite into Church and sentimental.

I'd say shes prob an I,N,F and prob a J. Great thats 2-4% of women...

I think any public displays are a function of being a full on F.

One thing that surprised me is that when she flew back over to her country (In Europe) she gave me a silent call about 3 hours after she landed back... What? Am I supposed to call straight away... I don't understand!!!! Must be an F.

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

Originally Posted by Veneti

Originally Posted by OnSecond Thought

You recoiled from the "touchy feely" stuff. And now you have no hot woman. Perhaps - and this is just a suggestion - instead of judging the expression of affection in derogatory terms, you might see it as a strength in others from which you can draw, just as you (maybe) wish for them to draw greater logical capabilities from your model.
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The touchy feely stuff was more in the sense of PDA's (Public displays of affection)...

INT's are reserved generally (I would assume).

Veneti, was she an extrovert?

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	She loved guys looking at her

That is unquestionably an E thing. I assure you, there is not an INFJ female on the planet who is *overtly* happy about guys looking them. Who doesn't like to know they are attractive enough to be looked at? But this, I promise you, is not the act of an INFJ.
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	Originally Posted by Veneti
	she loved shopping and clothes. She showed me the video of the advertising commercial she was in, she believed as a guy if you liked a woman you simply went over and talked to her... But then again, very much of a family girl. Quite into Church and sentimental.

She sounds as though she leans toward traditional gender roles, which, in my mind, sets off the SF alarms.

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	I'd say shes prob an I,N,F and prob a J. Great thats 2-4% of women...

INFJ. No freakin' way. (Hey, that rhymes.)

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	I think any public displays are a function of being a full on F.

I agree; but I'd add a *hint* of E in there.

As an F myself, yeah, you bet I like to be reassured of my honey's reverence, but as an I . . . let's not make spectacles of ourselves. It's embarrassing.

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	One thing that surprised me is that when she flew back over to her country (In Europe) she gave me a silent call about 3 hours after she landed back... What? Am I supposed to call straight away... I don't understand!!!! Must be an F.

You hit it right on the mark. Definitely an F.

And um, yes, you were supposed to call.

Didn't you care whether she made it back safely?

Didn't you care whether her very long flight was comfortable or whether she had to suffer next to a crying baby for 10+ hours?

Didn't you simply want to hear her voice to sustain the closeness, despite being across the planet from one another?

These are the questions *she* asked herself. Sure you cared, but unless there is action to supply her with that information, she has no idea whether your affections flew away with her plane. Do you see?
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If I had to cast my vote, I'd say she is an ESFx. See if the descriptions match.[reason]fixed broken quote tags[/reason]

**GOD** · 10-13-2007, 05:53 PM

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	If I had to cast my vote, I'd say she is an ESFx. See if the descriptions match.

Ok, I'll agree. I'll have to get her to do the test....

Hmm.. most like an E (Simply because she was so sure of herself).

But she was sure good at languages. She could speak 4. But she was very emotional underneath thats for sure... like an endless pool. Dunno... I read the INFJ profile and she seemed most like it..

But I do go for E women.

I feel quite sorry for her... but even I'm having difficulty putting the final nail into this one... I guess it will have to go on the pyre for the final ritual...

I'll have to run through all my other relationship nightmares at some point, you can see just how bad us INTJ's are when it comes to relating to the vast majority of F women... :-X

Anyway, goodluck on your night out... you seem smart enough and socially aware enough to make allowances for the directness of your date... :P

**Firelie** · 10-13-2007, 07:43 PM

Maybe he's afraid he won't like you after he meets you.

That's part of the reason why I never went to visit my last e-boyfriend (the last 3 e-relationships I had before him...when I met the guys in person, they were COMPLETELY not the type I'd ever involve myself with in real life...sometimes it seems nicer to preserve the fantasy than to end up disliking a person after meeting them...sigh).

**On Second Thought** · 10-13-2007, 09:50 PM

If I had to cast my vote, I'd say she is an ESFx. *See if the descriptions match.[/quote]

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Ok, I'll agree. I'll have to get her to do the test....

Ohhhh. * I thought you guys were kaput! *Good, now we can find out the truth. *
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	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Hmm.. most like an E (Simply because she was so sure of herself). *

And I would have said it was the J in her that made her self-assured, LOL.

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	But she was sure good at languages. She could speak 4. But she was very emotional underneath thats for sure... like an endless pool. Dunno... I read the INFJ profile and she seemed most like it..

Okay okay, try this one: *ENFJ. *It just CAN'T be INFJ!

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	But I do go for E women.

Don' know what yer missin'!

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	I feel quite sorry for her... but even I'm having difficulty putting the final nail into this one... I guess it will have to go on the pyre for the final ritual...

That bites. *I'm sorry. *
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	Originally Posted by Veneti
	I'll have to run through all my other relationship nightmares at some point, you can see just how bad us INTJ's are when it comes to relating to the vast majority of F women... :-X

Please do. *I find it fascinating!

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Anyway, goodluck on your night out... you seem smart enough and socially aware enough to make allowances for the directness of your date... *:P

Thank you, but alas, my INTJ lives half way across the country, and I have yet to meet him in person. <wistful sigh>

**iamnotspock** · 10-14-2007, 12:12 AM

So, I actually had this exact relationship before the more recent ISFP "experience."

Just like you, it started as an "e" relationship, she was an INFP, and did not have the means to come visit, due to her under-employment. She lived half a country away. And I am an INTJ, who would rather spend Sat. night on a computer than go anywhere that more than three people would congregate.

Anyway, we progressed from some lengthy emails to epic phone convos lasting 3 hours or more. Then she sent me some pics and I was really excited to meet her.

Well, that was the best part of the romance. About a week before I flew out to meet her, she sent me some "updated" photos, and I realized she looked *nothing* like she did in the first set, which must have been very old. At that point my romantic interest vanished. It was later that I realized that in the first set she had looked just like the girl I was in love with before I met her -- which is probably what triggered the whole thing subconsiously.

To make a long story short, we stayed friends, and had many interesting phone conversations, and still met once in awhile in person. She benefited from my extreme degree of confidence in business and financial matters and she vastly improved her professional situation. And I benefited from her admiration and sympathy and uncovered my more touchy-Feeling side.

BUT, while she was very attracted to me, I was not attracted to her, and I had to consider that even though I was upfront about everything from the beginning, being as tactful as I could be, she really didn't want to take no for an answer, so our whole friendship could be viewed as a one-sided relationship to some extent.

Also, our connection caused some serious problems in the subsequent relationship with the ISFP who got extremely jealous of our phone convos and demanded that I cut them off. To which I responded like an INTJ and refused to abandon my INFP friend to satisfy the emotional ISFP demands. Which became a whole fiasco.

Anyway, what I found out was that INFP and INTJ have a shared understanding of the world, which is very satisfying, which I attribute to the IN in common. The P and J also worked out well, b/c I am judgemental about everything, and she isn't, so we don't clash. She just agrees with everything I say, which I think is perfect, since INTJ's are always right and have 12 reasons to support everything ;-)

If the physical attraction were there, it might have worked out. And in fact I was looking for another iNFP when I met the ISFP (who thought she was an INFP at the time). But I think that an INFP would never excite me, b/c they are always seeking to avoid conflict, and I actually love a good fight, (which can lead to great sex). At the very least, I like women who are a real challenge, and INFPs are more like cuddly teddy bears. But that is just me, not necessarily an INTJ thing.

But back to you, Second Thought. If I could advise you, I'd say do NOT keep yourself available. That lowers your value and his interest. INTJ or not, he must come to you. So, he knows you are interested. Now withdraw. Surprise him with a phone call after a week, keep it short, and then hang up when you reach the high spot. Provoke him by disagreeing with something, an idea which he might passionately defend. INTJ's are very cost-conscious, and he will not fly out to meet you unless he sees real value. I will get creamed her for recomending "the rules" -- but truth be told, the girls who really got to me played the game of love to a T. INTJ's are not really emotionless beings, they just like to believe they are, in part to deal with their alienation from the world by claiming "they don't care." Mostly, that is a pose. They care, just about different things. Spock, after all, was half-human. To get these guys going requires *more* provocation than the average EF. I could tell youmore but then what would the fun be.

good luck!

**GOD** · 10-14-2007, 03:37 AM

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Ok, I'll agree. I'll have to get her to do the test....

Ohhhh. * I thought you guys were kaput! *Good, now we can find out the truth. *
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Assuming I can get her to do the test. She's quite interested always in about "what is going on in my life" and she's always trying to find out if I have a new g/f (I absolutely know she'd somehow want to get a photo of "her"). *Any communication I have with her completely bypasses that... so we're always at cross purposes. Weird though, she called me "demanding" however given the way she expected me to tow the line and become super coupled quickly I think she was more demanding.

Anyway, I was somewhat oblivious to all the signals... like she says out of the blue when we are out "You're a guy and plenty of money/personality (blah blah) you'll always be able to get women" which struck me as obviously one of these F type things... Actually, I thought maybe she is beginning to move away from me. *Funnily enough if you're expecting them to walk away and they are expecting you to do the same.... then it’s almost a self fulfilling prophecy. (Me, insecure that every guy out looked at her, her insecure that I supposedly had plenty of women on the side (Which I seriously cannot understand why).

One definite thing I do know is that because I don't treat attractive women any better than I'd treat any non attractive woman.... it really grinds them down. *

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Hmm.. Most like an E (Simply because she was so sure of herself). *

And I would have said it was the J in her that made her self-assured, LOL.

Actually, I've always been trying to test my mind and the way I think. To me you always need to push yourself out of your comfort zone if you want to improve.

I flirt with women quite a bit, its fun, but I'm an I. It’s not the J that has led me to this, it’s the lack of self confidence stripped away by the I in my youth that is just being overcome by positive feedback from "flirtees".

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	But she was sure good at languages. She could speak 4. But she was very emotional underneath that’s for sure... like an endless pool. Dunno... I read the INFJ profile and she seemed most like it..

Okay okay, try this one: *ENFJ. *It just CAN'T be INFJ!

ENFJ it is, doesn't matter really though... hopefully I don't get another one along my trails...

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	But I do go for E women.

Don' know what yer missin'!

BOREDOM? Seriously, I do need an E to do the socializing bit. Only that an E will clash with my lack of interest in being quite social... So, a good bit of F might counteract (family orientated etc).

So, we have the E and the F. -> OMG -> The death star profile seems to be appearing *
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*

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	I'll have to run through all my other relationship nightmares at some point, you can see just how bad us INTJ's are when it comes to relating to the vast majority of F women... :-X

Please do. *I find it fascinating!

Ok, sometime... One thing that women’s magazines should do is spell out a clear user guide to flirting for women. Then us guys will understand the exact signals... Bit like a road code. I could relate to that.

	Originally Posted by Veneti
	Anyway, goodluck on your night out... you seem smart enough and socially aware enough to make allowances for the directness of your date... *:P

Thank you, but alas, my INTJ lives half way across the country, and I have yet to meet him in person.

<wistful sigh>

You need to keep your options open and look in the real world around you (Assuming you're not stuck in some mountain cabin in the wilderness...
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)

**GOD** · 10-14-2007, 04:17 AM

	Originally Posted by iamnotspock
	So, I actually had this exact relationship before the more recent ISFP "experience." Just like you, it started as an "e" relationship, she was an INFP, and did not have the means to come visit, due to her under-employment. She lived half a country away. And I am an INTJ, who would rather spend Sat. night on a computer than go anywhere that more than three people would congregate.

I believe it you sat around with 20 other NT's you'd probably enjoy it. I think introversion is more about the quality of the people to interact with. I don't enjoy inane conversation, which doesn't mean I have to talk about "geek things" just that what a lot of people find mentally stimulating bores me.

Originally Posted by iamnotspock

Anyway, we progressed from some lengthy emails to epic phone convos lasting 3 hours or more. Then she sent me some pics and I was really excited to meet her.

Well, that was the best part of the romance. About a week before I flew out to meet her, she sent me some "updated" photos, and I realized she looked *nothing* like she did in the first set, which must have been very old. At that point my romantic interest vanished. It was later that I realized that in the first set she had looked just like the girl I was in love with before I met her -- which is probably what triggered the whole thing subconsciously.

Hmm.. It’s pretty much the shopping list of requirements that INTJ's seem to want. A lot of people can't understand that I can talk to a woman for about 10 minutes max and know whether I'd even be remotely interested in knowing her more. Tattoos -> No. Smokes ->No. Crap job -> No. These types of attributes are all indicators.

Problem with all the above is that it’s quite easy to stay single for a LONG time. Esp if you're I to start with.

	Originally Posted by iamnotspock
	To make a long story short, we stayed friends, and had many interesting phone conversations, and still met once in awhile in person. She benefited from my extreme degree of confidence in business and financial matters and she vastly improved her professional situation. And I benefited from her admiration and sympathy and uncovered my more touchy-Feeling side.

It’s a pity that looks do play such a large degree in attraction.

	Originally Posted by iamnotspock
	BUT, while she was very attracted to me, I was not attracted to her, and I had to consider that even though I was upfront about everything from the beginning, being as tactful as I could be, she really didn't want to take no for an answer, so our whole friendship could be viewed as a one-sided relationship to some extent.

Hmm... Sounds like she'd clicked with you, and you know by being the usual blunt honesty you'll trash her emotions. So, I guess she just saw your fend offs as due to your introversion or something.

	Originally Posted by iamnotspock
	Also, our connection caused some serious problems in the subsequent relationship with the ISFP who got extremely jealous of our phone convos and demanded that I cut them off. To which I responded like an INTJ and refused to abandon my INFP friend to satisfy the emotional ISFP demands. Which became a whole fiasco.

Lol... "days of our lives" comes to "rational" town...

That’s why I just clean break everything. I simply detest the crap lives (worlds) most people live in. Everyone seems to pitch up in front of me and extol the problems in their lives.

That’s the great thing about INTJ; we can eventually solve all our own problems... a number of types merely just go in repetitive circles....

Originally Posted by iamnotspock

Anyway, what I found out was that INFP and INTJ have a shared understanding of the world, which is very satisfying, which I attribute to the IN in common. The P and J also worked out well, b/c I am judgmental about everything, and she isn't, so we don't clash. She just agrees with everything I say, which I think is perfect, since INTJ's are always right and have 12 reasons to support everything ;-).

Lol... mine must have been a J. She was always trying to push me around. I had a small hole in my favourite T/Shirt (You couldn't stick your finger through it
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) and she outright REFUSED to go out with me wearing it. She was the oldest of an all daughter family.. So maybe that’s why she tried to push me around. I just know she was slowly trying to model me into her "ideally dressed guy".

Originally Posted by iamnotspock

If the physical attraction were there, it might have worked out. And in fact I was looking for another iNFP when I met the ISFP (who thought she was an INFP at the time). But I think that an INFP would never excite me, b/c they are always seeking to avoid conflict, and I actually love a good fight, (which can lead to great sex). At the very least, I like women who are a real challenge, and INFPs are more like cuddly teddy bears. But that is just me, not necessarily an INTJ thing.

Feisty women are great. As an INTJ that’s a financially orientated one, then your probably a class three Ennengram (Or however it’s spelt), which is the "achiever" rather than the standard class 5 of "investigator" that most INTJ (Scientific types) are.

I think class 3 have more of a competitive spirit and the class 5 less so. We use INTJ to leverage gain and achieve change, whereas the class 5 wants to understand and improve.

**On Second Thought** · 10-14-2007, 01:26 PM

Since it would take a lot of effort (in my mind) to do all that quoting in order to respond to you guys - and OMG, I'm *way* too lazy for that - I'm simply going to do old fashioned quotes and speak generally. K? K.

NOTspock
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As a comparison/contrast tool, I offer the following:

* My INTJ has seen me on cam and I believe he feels physically attracted (to what an cam can offer)
* We usually spend 3-5 hours a night in chat, and an occasional phone call which will last an hour or so
* INTJ claims to want to meet me, but is afraid he will "hurt me" (whatever)
* INTJ claims he is holding off on meeting me because he doesn't want to go "overboard" too fast (???)
* INTJ says he understands if I date locally and find someone I want to stay with (doesn't he even give *
* a shit?)
* INTJ is killing this romance.

On to your previous INFP relationship...

"BUT, while she was very attracted to me, I was not attracted to her, and I had to consider that even though I was upfront about everything from the beginning, being as tactful as I could be, she really didn't want to take no for an answer, so our whole friendship could be viewed as a one-sided relationship to some extent."

There is a very serious error you made here. *As much as you may have liked to be "friends" with this woman, there was really no true friendship. *

You were using her romantic interest in you to satisfy your need for quality attention/conversation. *That is not friendship. *

This is not what happens between you and your guy friends, correct? *No. *And that's the best way to gauge whether you have a true friendship with a woman. *Would you engage in a romantic relationship with her any more readily than you would with one of your buddies (and vice versa)? *Yes? *Then that is not friendship, it is screwed up soap opera bullshit.

You may have enjoyed her companionship immensely, but that is no excuse.

And your ISFP lady was correct. *The ISFP knew - as *any* person should - there was no "friendship" going on there, and your refusal to cut off your "friend" is, OMG, untenable. *

Unless you think you were doing your INFP some kind of favor by staying involved with her, leading her on. *

So, if you really like a good fight, then I suppose you've got one right here, LOL. *(Hope you don't dismiss me as your friend because of it. *
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)

" . . . and INFPs are more like cuddly teddy bears."

In some cases this is true. *But certainly not in mine. *Not today, anyway. * >
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And back to our regularly scheduled program . . . *

INTJ/INFP saga...

notspock, you advised me to play "the game." *I understand where you're coming from, but the thing is, I suck at "the game." *Honest IS my game. *

Lucky for me I have come to the point with this INTJ that I am so frustrated that becoming unavailable is looking more and more appealing every day.

What I'm going to tell him is that I need to step back, give myself some time for this frustration to simmer down, and get some perspective. *How greatly he will factor in my life at the end of this period I don't know.

You know, I hate to lose him simply because I am impatient, but I imagine him as an emergency room doctor who, while analyzing the best approach to take, allows his patient to bleed to death! *And that is what's happening to me. *I'm running out of Whatever It Is. *

Veneti:
You are absolutely right. *I need to look around, but I unfortunately *DO* live in the modern equivalent of a cave, LOL!

My town has a population of 4,500. *Yes, the comma is in the correct place. *I live an hour from two major cities, which isn't too bad, but I do rely on the Internet greatly to meet guys. *(Horrible computer addictions are another thing the INTJs and INFPs have in common.)

Ah, you guys, I'm so frustrated! *

But before I post this message, allow me to offer one piece of advice to INTJs: *

"That’s the great thing about INTJ; we can eventually solve all our own problems..."

DO NOT BE SO SURE! *For once!

10-13-2007, 01:08 PM	#1
On Second Thought New Member [01%] MBTI: INFP Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	Hi, INTJs To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Female INFP here. I'm currently in an e-relationship with an INTJ. I think he's great! He's insecure socially, and he's holding the relationship at bay (i.e., postponing meeting each other). I've asked him why he's doing this and he responds by saying he's afraid I won't like him after I meet him. Although I believe that this is part of the situation, I have the feeling there is more to it. He asks questions about me (which is manna in heaven to an INFP), so I wonder if he's trying to discern whether I'm "worthy" of his commitment. Do you, as INTJs, think I'm on the right track? Thanks for your help! P.S. If you have any questions regarding the mysteries of the INFP mind, I'll be happy to offer my thoughts. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-13-2007, 01:22 PM	#2
bikerscars Member [03%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 140	in general many social situations for us is at best uncomfortable and we feel like we are performing for others (always being judged/ not wanting to be misunderstood) get him out by going to an event/restaurant/nature setting where he feels comfortable...good luck with that it's not you- it's us i could be wrong 'cause i don't know your particular situation if he was not interested in you he would not waste time online with you
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10-13-2007, 01:28 PM	#3
r21left New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	Also, don't be surprised if he's much more reserved and stoic, even to the point of near-paralysis, when you meet him in person. He probably communicates much "better" online and in-person communication will be kind of a shock, what with all the non-verbal cues and subtext and so on. May take a few IRL "sessions" to get comfortable by forging a physical intimacy (not necessarily romantic, just physical in the sense of you actually being there). Good luck!
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10-13-2007, 01:29 PM	#4
On Second Thought New Member [01%] MBTI: INFP Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	"get him out by going to an event/restaurant/nature setting where he feels comfortable...good luck with that " Forgive me. I left out some critical information. In order for us to meet, we'd have to cross several (large) states. He is the one who would have to pay for it, as I'm your typical poor INFP. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Understandably, this may have something to do with it. I don't know, because if I had the money to pay for it, there would be absolutely no question at all: we would have met lightyears ago. (Is "lightyear" one word?) Thanks for your input, I truly appreciate it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10-13-2007, 01:33 PM	#6
r21left New Member [01%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	I missed that offer to gauge the mind of an INFP... I dated one of your "kind" not too long ago. It was fascinating. Unfortunately, we weren't all that compatible (but we sure did come close). The bottom line was that we were capable of forging a deep bond, but sadly not a romantic one. What I wanted to know about INFPs... 1. what is this "fantasy world" I keep hearing about? What does it look like? What triggers it? What do you use it for? Why? 2. How do you communicate? Do you speak more in terms of values (Fi) or possibilities and interconnectedness (Ne)? 3. What is it about INTJs that attracts you to us? 4. (This one is quite sensitive) Why is paralysis and over-thinking an issue for INFPs? I think that's enough for now... thanks for tackling any or all of the above. I look forward to your insights!
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10-13-2007, 01:39 PM	#8
MichaelH Member [06%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 262	bikerscars is right - that fact that he's communicating with you says he's interested. INTJs as a rule _HATE_ boring social interaction. We see it as unfulfilling and unproductive. Plus, as bikerscars mentioned, we feel awkward being social. It's just not natural for us. See if there's something specific to go _do_ together. There should be a purpose to the meeting. Yes, "hang out and get to know each other and maybe snog" is a purpose, but there should be a more direct useful point than that. Watching a movie would give you both something to discuss afterwards. Maybe ask him what some of his favorite restaurants are, and if he could introduce you to one. It's important to let him be in control of the event place and time, and it should have an easy exit for him if he needs to leave early. (It's an INTJ thing...) If you both play computer games, a LAN party would be natural. (!) If you can both go somewhere where there's an outside interest to explore - a zoo, a computer show, a planetarium - it will take some of the pressure off him to be "social". If it helps any, the awkwardness is almost certainly his own insecurity rather than any doubts about you.
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10-13-2007, 02:39 PM	#9
On Second Thought New Member [01%] MBTI: INFP Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	r21left, I had a nice, thorough response to your INFP questions, but the site logged me out and now it is gone. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I'll write it again in notepad or something and then repost. Argh!!
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10-13-2007, 07:43 PM	#20
Firelie Member [19%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 793	Maybe he's afraid he won't like you after he meets you. That's part of the reason why I never went to visit my last e-boyfriend (the last 3 e-relationships I had before him...when I met the guys in person, they were COMPLETELY not the type I'd ever involve myself with in real life...sometimes it seems nicer to preserve the fantasy than to end up disliking a person after meeting them...sigh).
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10-14-2007, 12:12 AM	#22
iamnotspock Member [07%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 284	So, I actually had this exact relationship before the more recent ISFP "experience." Just like you, it started as an "e" relationship, she was an INFP, and did not have the means to come visit, due to her under-employment. She lived half a country away. And I am an INTJ, who would rather spend Sat. night on a computer than go anywhere that more than three people would congregate. Anyway, we progressed from some lengthy emails to epic phone convos lasting 3 hours or more. Then she sent me some pics and I was really excited to meet her. Well, that was the best part of the romance. About a week before I flew out to meet her, she sent me some "updated" photos, and I realized she looked nothing like she did in the first set, which must have been very old. At that point my romantic interest vanished. It was later that I realized that in the first set she had looked just like the girl I was in love with before I met her -- which is probably what triggered the whole thing subconsiously. To make a long story short, we stayed friends, and had many interesting phone conversations, and still met once in awhile in person. She benefited from my extreme degree of confidence in business and financial matters and she vastly improved her professional situation. And I benefited from her admiration and sympathy and uncovered my more touchy-Feeling side. BUT, while she was very attracted to me, I was not attracted to her, and I had to consider that even though I was upfront about everything from the beginning, being as tactful as I could be, she really didn't want to take no for an answer, so our whole friendship could be viewed as a one-sided relationship to some extent. Also, our connection caused some serious problems in the subsequent relationship with the ISFP who got extremely jealous of our phone convos and demanded that I cut them off. To which I responded like an INTJ and refused to abandon my INFP friend to satisfy the emotional ISFP demands. Which became a whole fiasco. Anyway, what I found out was that INFP and INTJ have a shared understanding of the world, which is very satisfying, which I attribute to the IN in common. The P and J also worked out well, b/c I am judgemental about everything, and she isn't, so we don't clash. She just agrees with everything I say, which I think is perfect, since INTJ's are always right and have 12 reasons to support everything ;-) If the physical attraction were there, it might have worked out. And in fact I was looking for another iNFP when I met the ISFP (who thought she was an INFP at the time). But I think that an INFP would never excite me, b/c they are always seeking to avoid conflict, and I actually love a good fight, (which can lead to great sex). At the very least, I like women who are a real challenge, and INFPs are more like cuddly teddy bears. But that is just me, not necessarily an INTJ thing. But back to you, Second Thought. If I could advise you, I'd say do NOT keep yourself available. That lowers your value and his interest. INTJ or not, he must come to you. So, he knows you are interested. Now withdraw. Surprise him with a phone call after a week, keep it short, and then hang up when you reach the high spot. Provoke him by disagreeing with something, an idea which he might passionately defend. INTJ's are very cost-conscious, and he will not fly out to meet you unless he sees real value. I will get creamed her for recomending "the rules" -- but truth be told, the girls who really got to me played the game of love to a T. INTJ's are not really emotionless beings, they just like to believe they are, in part to deal with their alienation from the world by claiming "they don't care." Mostly, that is a pose. They care, just about different things. Spock, after all, was half-human. To get these guys going requires more provocation than the average EF. I could tell youmore but then what would the fun be. good luck!
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10-14-2007, 01:26 PM	#25
On Second Thought New Member [01%] MBTI: INFP Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 25	Since it would take a lot of effort (in my mind) to do all that quoting in order to respond to you guys - and OMG, I'm way too lazy for that - I'm simply going to do old fashioned quotes and speak generally. K? K. NOTspock To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. As a comparison/contrast tool, I offer the following: * My INTJ has seen me on cam and I believe he feels physically attracted (to what an cam can offer) * We usually spend 3-5 hours a night in chat, and an occasional phone call which will last an hour or so * INTJ claims to want to meet me, but is afraid he will "hurt me" (whatever) * INTJ claims he is holding off on meeting me because he doesn't want to go "overboard" too fast (???) * INTJ says he understands if I date locally and find someone I want to stay with (doesn't he even give * * a shit?) * INTJ is killing this romance. On to your previous INFP relationship... "BUT, while she was very attracted to me, I was not attracted to her, and I had to consider that even though I was upfront about everything from the beginning, being as tactful as I could be, she really didn't want to take no for an answer, so our whole friendship could be viewed as a one-sided relationship to some extent." There is a very serious error you made here. As much as you may have liked to be "friends" with this woman, there was really no true friendship. You were using her romantic interest in you to satisfy your need for quality attention/conversation. That is not friendship. This is not what happens between you and your guy friends, correct? No. And that's the best way to gauge whether you have a true friendship with a woman. Would you engage in a romantic relationship with her any more readily than you would with one of your buddies (and vice versa)? Yes? Then that is not friendship, it is screwed up soap opera bullshit. You may have enjoyed her companionship immensely, but that is no excuse. And your ISFP lady was correct. The ISFP knew - as any person should - there was no "friendship" going on there, and your refusal to cut off your "friend" is, OMG, untenable. * Unless you think you were doing your INFP some kind of favor by staying involved with her, leading her on. * So, if you really like a good fight, then I suppose you've got one right here, LOL. (Hope you don't dismiss me as your friend because of it. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ) " . . . and INFPs are more like cuddly teddy bears." In some cases this is true. But certainly not in mine. Not today, anyway. * > To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. And back to our regularly scheduled program . . . * INTJ/INFP saga... notspock, you advised me to play "the game." I understand where you're coming from, but the thing is, I suck at "the game." Honest IS my game. * Lucky for me I have come to the point with this INTJ that I am so frustrated that becoming unavailable is looking more and more appealing every day. What I'm going to tell him is that I need to step back, give myself some time for this frustration to simmer down, and get some perspective. How greatly he will factor in my life at the end of this period I don't know. You know, I hate to lose him simply because I am impatient, but I imagine him as an emergency room doctor who, while analyzing the best approach to take, allows his patient to bleed to death! And that is what's happening to me. I'm running out of Whatever It Is. Veneti: You are absolutely right. I need to look around, but I unfortunately DO* live in the modern equivalent of a cave, LOL! My town has a population of 4,500. Yes, the comma is in the correct place. I live an hour from two major cities, which isn't too bad, but I do rely on the Internet greatly to meet guys. (Horrible computer addictions are another thing the INTJs and INFPs have in common.) Ah, you guys, I'm so frustrated! But before I post this message, allow me to offer one piece of advice to INTJs: * "That’s the great thing about INTJ; we can eventually solve all our own problems..." DO NOT BE SO SURE! *For once!
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