[Sneakypeex]

So, is greed born or learned? I tried to google this, but didn't get any answers. I always thought it was inherent and that you are born with it; this makes the most sense to me. However, now I'm hearing people giving arguments that it's learned, and that people in some cultures are barely greedy at all. So I don't know what to believe in anymore. Could it be a mix of both born and learned maybe?

I don't even know if this question is valid. I apologize if it's a dumb question.

[GouldFan]

What kind of greed are you talking about? There are many different kinds.

[Fox]

A huge chunk of it has to be nature. Look at little kids during the terrible twos. They are very possessive and don't share. If they have Red Popsicle and they see a kid with a Green one they will want that one as well. Even if they are both the same color the kid will think the other one must be better.

[Sneakypeex]

	Originally Posted by GouldFan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What kind of greed are you talking about? There are many different kinds.

Enlighten me on what different kinds exist O.o Sure, it's a wide spectrum of things, but I like to think there's a unity between it all.

	A huge chunk of it has to be nature. Look at little kids during the terrible twos. They are very possessive and don't share. If they have Red Popsicle and they see a kid with a Green one they will want that one as well. Even if they are both the same color the kid will think the other one must be better.

Hmm, good answer. Still, why are some people more greedy than others in the end? Could culture and society also be a contributing factor to someone's greed?

[Still Standing]

I agree with Fox.

* OK then, more content *

If in some cultures, people are barely greedy at all, that doesn't mean that the children there aren't born greedy. They simply adapt to their culture because they know that their greediness would be frowned upon and possibly punished.

[GouldFan]

Some greedy characteristics can be inborn, but the expression of the phenotype 'greed' can be influenced by many things such as upbringing, social interactions and norm, resource availability, and things of that nature.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by Sneakypeex To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Still, why are some people more greedy than others in the end? Could culture and society also be a contributing factor to someone's greed?

Family upbringing could contribute to reducing someone's inborn greed, while culture and society, at least in the Western World, would probably increase it.

[GouldFan]

	Originally Posted by Sneakypeex To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Enlighten me on what different kinds exist O.o Sure, it's a wide spectrum of things, but I like to think there's a unity between it all.

Well, I shouldn't have said "many," because I can only think of several.
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I was thinking in terms of motivation behind outward exhibition of greed, which can vary. Stubborness, hoarding, resentment and anger, and perhaps habits can qualify as greed, as the end results look similar and be even called by others as "greed."

[Sneakypeex]

Originally Posted by GouldFan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Well, I shouldn't have said "many," because I can only think of several. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I was thinking in terms of motivation behind outward exhibition of greed, which can vary. Stubborness, hoarding, resentment and anger, and perhaps habits can qualify as greed, as the end results look similar and be even called by others as "greed."

Aha, true. Well, I was thinking more in terms of greed for money.

[GouldFan]

	Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Family upbringing could contribute to reducing someone's inborn greed, while culture and society, at least in the Western World, would probably increase it.

Not all family upbringing results in reduced greed, unfortunately. Some parents teach their children to be selfish by letting them know that they are entitled to everything, which in turn teaches them to be unyielding and inconsiderate. Western world, depending on what is being learned from it, one can learn to be less greedy, because many people in the western world advocate equality, open-mindedness, and things of that nature.

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by GouldFan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Not all family upbringing results in reduced greed, unfortunately. Some parents teach their children to be selfish by letting them know that they are entitled to everything, which in turn teaches them to be unyielding and inconsiderate.

True, that's why I said family upbringing COULD reduce inborn greed, in the sense that they are the most likely people who will help reduce it, not society. For instance, by telling Bobby to share his toys with little Johnny even if he doesn't want to, etc.

	Western world, depending on what is being learned from it, one can learn to be less greedy, because many people in the western world advocate equality, open-mindedness, and things of that nature.

People who haven't learned to be less greedy from family upbringing probably don't pay attention to that type of message. They'll be the survival-of-the-fittest types who "deserve" whatever they can get for themselves, even if it means taking it away from someone else. Capitalism and many TV shows (sitcoms, reality TV, even game shows) feed this mentality too.

But of course, there can be youth who rebel in a more positive way and who decide to become the opposite of their greedy family. And because of their idealism, they will join groups and movements that advocate equality, open-mindedness, etc. But how do you explain that the majority of a given population rarely ever embraces these movements?

[Zombicide]

Diversification has it that it will be more inborn for some, nature has it that it will be inborn for the many. For me it is that I have to try to be greedy, and I do try, though overcoming my proclivities is not a thing of ease, so I attest to the difference in myself but I do despise the general populace, and see that they are but apes who offend my genteel temperament so I find in this regard, as I often do with any, ordinary folk hold the reverse of my own proclivities V learned behaviour. For ornery man, greed likely comes rather naturally, although perhaps I should say selfishness, however for sake of context, I will opine that I've seen greed much too hard wired and viscously so in the populace for it to simply be learned. It is quite telling that an opposition to greed must be supplanted by the likes of coercion in religion or an ideology.

[GouldFan]

Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

True, that's why I said family upbringing COULD reduce inborn greed, in the sense that they are the most likely people who will help reduce it, not society. For instance, by telling Bobby to share his toys with little Johnny even if he doesn't want to, etc. People who haven't learned to be less greedy from family upbringing probably don't pay attention to that type of message. They'll be the survival-of-the-fittest types who "deserve" whatever they can get for themselves, even if it means taking it away from someone else. Capitalism and many TV shows (sitcoms, reality TV, even game shows) feed this mentality too.

Oh, I missed the word! I see your point.
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I am wondering though whether there needs to be a clear distinction between selfishness and greed at this point.

[TrailBlazer]

To be certain, we are not thinking greed as it relates to ambition? Because I do not think the greed really relates its mainly the ambition to take more than you are given because you want it, and simply are able to go and do so. Ambition fuels change, and progress. So I do not think that ambition, as greed, is a negative thing. Unless that greed is not fueled by ambition rather by spite, in which case it is negative.

In answer to the OP question, I believe that it is a little both. I do believe that humans, in general not absolutely, are the products of their environment. If raised to take what they want, then it is not born, it is learned. So I believe it is learned, not a born quality.

[GouldFan]

	Originally Posted by TrailBlazer To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To be certain, we are not thinking greed as it relates to ambition? Because I do not think the greed really relates its mainly the ambition to take more than you are given because you want it, and simply are able to go and do so. Ambition fuels change, and progress. So I do not think that ambition, as greed, is a negative thing.

That's a good point! I think the concept of greed is more complicated than it is generally perceived, and is often confounded with other negative qualities.

[Firebrand]

If you think about it, it must be nature. Basic needs are actually very little. Notice bums manage to stay alive. Some people have the fire and drive to do something and acquire something more than basic needs. But it can definitely be sparked additionally by outside input.

So, in essence, I maintain that you're born with a certain amount and it can be added to.

[alphawolf]

Originally Posted by Sneakypeex To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So, is greed born or learned? I tried to google this, but didn't get any answers. I always thought it was inherent and that you are born with it; this makes the most sense to me. However, now I'm hearing people giving arguments that it's learned, and that people in some cultures are barely greedy at all. So I don't know what to believe in anymore. Could it be a mix of both born and learned maybe? I don't even know if this question is valid. I apologize if it's a dumb question.

Greed is an overabundance of selfishness, and selfishness comes directly from the Ego. Newborn babies don't have an Ego. Ego is born due to loss of innocence, therefore greed is learned.

[Intuition]

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Greed is an overabundance of selfishness, and selfishness comes directly from the Ego. Newborn babies don't have an Ego. Ego is born due to loss of innocence, therefore greed is learned.

I like it.

Greed to me is when you want more than your fellow man, not for the sake of necessity, but rather for the satisfaction that comes with having more than him.

In other words, working at the same pace and having the same opportunities as your neighbor, but being highly satisfied only if you end up with more at the end of it than they do.

Greed & selfishness work hand in hand - how can one be greedy if they aren't thinking of satisfying their own desires?

To be selfish, one needs to be thinking of the self - to be greedy, one must be thinking of themselves.

Childish greed, ie I have the red but he has the green, now I want the red AND green, stems from an insecurity about what one already has - from this extends a reliance on outside approval of the self, and if not dealt with at a young age, can lead to what seem like complex personal problems, but actually comes from something surrounding this theme.

The child who is happy with either green or blue, or red or yellow, not in comparison to others, would you call him greedy? I doubt it.

I'd consider it a LEARNED reaction - if you learned at a young age that you HAVE to take everything you can get, regardless of what others get, because of the situation you were brought up in, then you could say this was learned.

If you learned at a young age that sharing what you have equally with others brings the most satisfaction (more people like you, they share with you etc) then this is a great learned skill as well.

I would distinguish 'greed' in a egotistical sense from 'greed' in a survival sense, but there is still a cross-over to some extent. Ever been standing at an elevator with only 7 spots, but 20 people waiting? Watch for something like this and you'll feel a certain dynamic starting to appear. As an INTJ, it is both a fascinating and enlightening insight into social dynamics.

[Firebrand]

Greed is wanting more than you need. It's natural to want more for yourself or the people you care about. Also, for some, they do it just for the fun of it.

	Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Greed is an overabundance of selfishness, and selfishness comes directly from the Ego. Newborn babies don't have an Ego. Ego is born due to loss of innocence, therefore greed is learned.

We also are taught to walk and talk. Are those things bad? Then, what about school? Intrinsically evil? Everyone has an ego. Otherwise you wouldn't look out for your own interests, which would negate survival instincts.

[Marcus Septim]

Im greedy
With money,food and sex..
And as far as i can remember i always have being

[Firebrand]

	Originally Posted by Intuition To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I'd consider it a LEARNED reaction

Then who teaches you this? Obvious answer : parents, peers, media. What about for people who weren't around people with these motivations. There's a saying "success skips a generation". If people get things easy, they have less drive to go get these things themselves. Drive can't be taught, only enhanced.

[stock]

	Originally Posted by Sneakypeex To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Aha, true. Well, I was thinking more in terms of greed for money.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Greed is wanting more than you need. It's natural to want more for yourself or the people you care about. Also, for some, they do it just for the fun of it.

The question that comes to mind-WHY is it natural to want more for yourself and the people you care for? My answer would be that to think of greed in terms of resources for survival rather than specific things such as money or a house. The more resources you have, the more likely you can make sure your family survives in hard times-thus your offspring survive. This assumes you live in a society where stockpiling of resources is an option-ie an agrarian, non motile society.

I would suggest you would see less hording-greed in a hunter/gatherer motile society...but instead you would see more cheating-greed. The cheating-greed would be the variety where you can get more that your fair share out of a shared community resource pool-such as kill from a hunt for instance. If you can learn to "game" the community resource pool in these societies, you can get more resources for you and your offspring, thus, again, survival chances are optimized. If you "game" too much you get caught, but a little bit of "gaming" enhances survival.

Interestingly it seems like guilt would be a very effective way to combat hoarding-greed...you observe those in need and feel guilt at not providing them with resources. To combat hoarding-greed you would balance it with people who reminded you of others who are in pain.

Shame would be better to combat cheating-greed, as social censure and exclusion would be the results if your cheating was discovered. To combat cheating-greed, you would counter it with others who reminded you of your social obligations to the group.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Then who teaches you this? Obvious answer : parents, peers, media. What about for people who weren't around people with these motivations. There's a saying "success skips a generation". If people get things easy, they have less drive to go get these things themselves. Drive can't be taught, only enhanced.

As an enfp, I am the opposite of greedy...I would give everything to others, as my psyche is rewarded by seeing others become happier. I internally mirror that and feel happier. I counter this with common sense of course IRL. Thus my "drive" is to help make others happy...enfps often become martyrs for groups due to this innate "drive".

[Still Standing]

	Originally Posted by GouldFan To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I am wondering though whether there needs to be a clear distinction between selfishness and greed at this point.

According to Merriam-Webster, greed is "a selfish and excessive desire for more of something than is needed." I still believe that most of us are born with this desire and that those who outgrow it have been influenced by their relationships and life circumstances. Have you ever encountered or heard of a reasonable baby or 2-year-old? Parental limit-setting is key to the development of sharing and altruistic behaviors because we cannot set limits for ourselves as infants.

[rickster]

Originally Posted by Still Standing To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

According to Merriam-Webster, greed is "a selfish and excessive desire for more of something than is needed." I still believe that most of us are born with this desire and that those who outgrow it have been influenced by their relationships and life circumstances. Have you ever encountered or heard of a reasonable baby or 2-year-old? Parental limit-setting is key to the development of sharing and altruistic behaviors because we cannot set limits for ourselves as infants.

Yes indeed.

Greed could have it's origins in an inferiority complex or any number of personality disorders.

The psychology that drives greed is to amass things not for the sake of amassing things, but to also derive shhort-ternm satisfaction from knowing others are deprived.

Greed is a neurotic desire inasmuch as it has no endpoint, and when a greed goal is achieved it invariably leaves a greedy person unsatisfied. They haven't really met a goal: they have attained a neurotic desire, and at that point become quite insecure.

Consider two people who set the same goal: "I'm going to quit work when I've got $1,000,000 in the bank and the house is paid for."

The ambitious person happily quits work the day he has his million and the house is paid.
The greedy person becomes increasingly disturbed as the goal is approaching fulfilment. He's sure he needs another million to be secure, and he needs another house. He wants to move with the strata of multimillonaires because he's terrified that people with less than he has are only interested in his money. And so it goes. He never has enough, but while one eye is on acquiring more he's acutely aware of the have-nots.

[Judoka]

Greed has always existed and always will if you ask me. It's definitely born. Greed existed since the first man got down of the tree and started walkin' \ since God made man.