[Storm]

There are two elements here, before and after you end the relationship. Before, I care about it, I want to make it work. After, I've already decided it doesn't work, so I don't care about the relationship itself anymore. It's over

But do I not care about the person at all? No, I still cherish the memories. I've never had to break off a family relationship, but I think I'd care a lot that things couldn't have been better. Friendships I can not care about or feel nostalgic that they didn't work out or someone ended up being different than I thought. Romantic relationships are the same way. Sometimes with romantic relationships I'm still know the person, so then I do care about them, but in a different way. I would feel bad if they were in the hospital and would send a card or something.

And I also "care" in the abstract sense that I care about what I learned and the experience. My relationship with them helped shaped me.

[burazekun]

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can't think how self-protection particularly fits into the examples you listed above. Is self-protection a feeling?

All feelings are driven from fear. Fear is a feeling for self protection. Even happiness, and sadness are driven by this primal feeling. So yes, indirectly, everything you do is done so because you "felt, or feel it" even if you logically pieced your conclusion together.

Edit: To add

The feelings you experience after an event determine HOW you care about something specific. They are your classification for the event.

[Bonamona]

It depends on who. If it's one of the very few people I have completely let in, it would be a very hard struggle. I would have the tendency to over analyze and review everything on a deeper level, and it might take me months or even years to move on 100%.

[girlfromperu]

Done it before, it's not easy. But yes I can do it, if I feel the relationship isn't doing anyone any good.

[poetic intj]

	Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You are assuming of course that it's a knee jerk reaction and that no attempt at resolution and closure has been made prior to departure. That's an incorrect assumption. I am slow to cut anyone off, some people however aren't interested in discussion, resolution or really anything other than just getting their own way. I see no reason at all to stick around for that.

I can sort of understand that, but the most troublesome part about the OP is the "not caring" afterwards part. Maybe you guys have a different definition of caring for someone. Doesn't matter how careful, and well-thought out my reasons are, I can't imagine cutting someone out and then never looking back if strong feelings were once involved. The presence of strong feelings changes the nature of the situation and the brain and the heart speak different languages in situations like this for me. So while my brain might give a ton of reasons why I should cut things off, even if I do cut things off, I'm not sure I could tell my heart to just stop caring and never look back like you guys are describing here.

Now if strong feelings were not involved in the first place, I can definitely pull the plug and never look back. I've done that before with things like a piano club at my college. But that's an entirely different kind of thing for me. Maybe you guys just never genuinely cared about anyone else before.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Cammi To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Good morning! I was going to put a long back story on this but I figured you all would understand anyways! My question is this : Does anyone find that they can cut off a personal relationship (family or romantic) and not look back? Is this part of being an INTJ? Or am I simply cruel?

I've done it to friends, family, girlfriends, co-workers, etc. Usually it happens after an extended period of being shit on by said individuals--given many chances.

It's only cruel if you enjoy hurting people. If you're just trying to get away from a toxic relationship, I see no issue with feeling good about it...

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Maybe you guys just never genuinely cared about anyone else before.

Again an incorrect assumption. Just because I've cut someone out of my life doesn't mean I never cared for them. Lets look at my last relationship, one in which I counted my partner to be my soulmate. Soulmate in the sense I had intense feelings of love for this person and it took about 3 years of him treating me like absolute rubbish before I gave up hope of ever getting some semblance of love from him and cut loose.

So I broke it off after reaching the end of my tether approximately 6 months before. Hope fades very slowly with me. A year passes he doesn't want to communicate with me and I respect that decision because I care about his feelings. He then turns up on my doorstep asking why we are not getting married. WTF much? We haven't spoken for a year! He doesn't turn up and express any sentiments of love mind you just an expectation that we should be together. Nice. Anyway his presence stirs up said feelings once again and I decide to give consideration to his proposal that we should just be together. I arrange to meet him the next day ready to try again and he stands me up. No explanation, no phone call, no nothing. Just disappears. So now here I am with all these feelings that have been stirred up and some measure of hope that maybe, just maybe it will be alright this time. And this...I do believe this may have been the point at which my heart turned to volcanic ash and blew away on the wind.

It took about 3 months for me to come back from a zombie-like existence and feel angry about it. So I sent an email. Basically saying, I did not understand why he would do that and yes I was about to give it another go but then he did his usual trick of simply disappearing. Thanks for the memories and btw I don't want to hear from you ever again.

Time passes and about 4 months later I get this email. I've had a terrible acccident, I've been in hospital for 4 months in traction and almost drowned. I've lost my job, someone died in this accident and I am now facing a criminal investigation. None of my friends like me anymore and you are the only person I can talk to.

I just could not do that rollercoaster anymore. Of course I cared that his life had turned to shit and he almost died. It tears me up that things had come to this for him. But I've just got nothing left to give this person. I'm sorry for his situation, this is someone I once loved, but to love this person is to slowly tear myself to pieces. It's either me or him. I had to walk away. To this day I cannot think of this person and not burst into tears, so I cannot think of this person.

[poetic intj]

^I perceive deeper waters to this issue, but from what you wrote there, I can definitely understand how you would feel that cutting off and never looking back is the best and healthiest option for you. However, I don't think you're doing what the OP mentioned because there is at the very least a modicum of care left in you. That's not quite pulling a plug and not caring. That's more pulling a plug because you're afraid to care too much and travel down that potentially painful road again.

[DarkPassenger]

Scary how I'm so like a lot of you. I can cut people out of my life pretty easily, goes hand in hand with using logic instead of emotions. However my decisions can haunt me if I acted in haste. That would be the J part, so quick when paired with Intuition. I give people I care about plenty of chances. When a relationship ceases to make me happy or enrich my life in some way, then it renders itself useless in my eyes and the cut is made, most times without a second thought. Boggles my mind when I hear about people in relationships that aren't positive most of the time. As I have learned and am still learning, it is not my responsibility to understand that sort of thing, nor is it fair to judge. Easy to say, harder to do.


In order for me not to care, I had to have not cared in the first place. The reason is because we are responsible for the relationships we form. Even those relationships with family. I have family I don't talk to because we never really did except for bullshit hellos. I never cared for them therefore I can go on as if they did not exist. However, cutting out a friend because they turned into an asshole while I wasn't looking is hard because of the person I remembered. I care and will for a while.

So in response to your question; can you, really?

[Antares]

Sure, I've done it before. But so far they have only been meaningless flings, and I don't think I've never not cared that I've cut off a significant emotional relationship or friendship. One of them was a fling that got a little too intense (on his part) for my tastes. I broke it off with him and tried to remain friends, but then he just kept stalking me and trying to get back together.

Before, I felt quite bad doing this to him, but then his behavior almost made me despise him, and cutting it off completely resulted in no negative emotions from me. The second one was another meanginless fling, but this time it was so meaningless that I didn't even have any emotions during it, much less after it. He was a lot more into it than I was as well, but I didn't feel any sadness or nostalgia.

[Ilara]

	Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can sort of understand that, but the most troublesome part about the OP is the "not caring" afterwards part. Maybe you guys have a different definition of caring for someone. Doesn't matter how careful, and well-thought out my reasons are, I can't imagine cutting someone out and then never looking back if strong feelings were once involved.

I don't bother looking back if I already know what's back there. If I left in the first place, it's because it was so terrible that the good was completely eclipsed by the bad. I'm not denying the presence of the good, but sometimes it really, really isn't worth it.

	The presence of strong feelings changes the nature of the situation and the brain and the heart speak different languages in situations like this for me. So while my brain might give a ton of reasons why I should cut things off, even if I do cut things off, I'm not sure I could tell my heart to just stop caring and never look back like you guys are describing here.

Not caring and not looking back are two different things. Looking back to me means wavering or reconsidering. Caring to me means being emotionally affected. I care, I just don't forget why I cut the relationship off.

	Now if strong feelings were not involved in the first place, I can definitely pull the plug and never look back. I've done that before with things like a piano club at my college. But that's an entirely different kind of thing for me. Maybe you guys just never genuinely cared about anyone else before.

I've done it with somebody I cared for a great deal. Ultimately, it was the best decision I could have made for both of us, and I'm happy that I made it. Does that mean I never cared? No.

I call bullshit on you telling those who've had to walk away from a toxic situation that they've probably just never cared deeply for anybody. Caring and acting are separate things; you can't infer from people being able to leave a relationship that they don't care about the other person.

[burazekun]

Originally Posted by Ilara To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I don't bother looking back if I already know what's back there. If I left in the first place, it's because it was so terrible that the good was completely eclipsed by the bad. I'm not denying the presence of the good, but sometimes it really, really isn't worth it. Not caring and not looking back are two different things. Looking back to me means wavering or reconsidering. Caring to me means being emotionally affected. I care, I just don't forget why I cut the relationship off. I've done it with somebody I cared for a great deal. Ultimately, it was the best decision I could have made for both of us, and I'm happy that I made it. Does that mean I never cared? No. I call bullshit on you telling those who've had to walk away from a toxic situation that they've probably just never cared deeply for anybody. Caring and acting are separate things; you can't infer from people being able to leave a relationship that they don't care about the other person.

Looking back on something is a strong sign you cared. How you care is ultimately up to you. But you still cared. It only feel better that it was what was best for you. Or maybe you just told yourself that to make it easier for you. The strong emphasis on the wording used may suggest that you did that before the relationship even ended.

Acting, in any form, no matter how you told yourself to do it, is still a emotional response.

Unemotional response include, breathing, walking, moving in general unless a goal is in place, heart beating, and digestion including filtration and similar things.

The level in which someone reacts or thinks about something of this nature, well the strength of that action, determines the level of care involved.

Who are you caring for though can make it harder, if it's you, then its easy. If it's them, then its harder.

[zibun]

It's doable but not preferable.

	Originally Posted by Storm To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	There are two elements here, before and after you end the relationship. Before, I care about it, I want to make it work. After, I've already decided it doesn't work, so I don't care about the relationship itself anymore. It's over.

This. It takes me awhile to get to my decision but once I'm there, there's little that can change my mind at that point.

[Ilara]

Originally Posted by burazekun To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Looking back on something is a strong sign you cared. How you care is ultimately up to you. But you still cared. It only feel better that it was what was best for you. Or maybe you just told yourself that to make it easier for you. The strong emphasis on the wording used may suggest that you did that before the relationship even ended. Acting, in any form, no matter how you told yourself to do it, is still a emotional response. Unemotional response include, breathing, walking, moving in general unless a goal is in place, heart beating, and digestion including filtration and similar things. The level in which someone reacts or thinks about something of this nature, well the strength of that action, determines the level of care involved. Who are you caring for though can make it harder, if it's you, then its easy. If it's them, then its harder.

When did I claim not caring?

I spent that entire post explaining that I did care, but that nevertheless the decision was the best one I could make for myself (I can't decide for him, but he benefited indirectly by also being out of the toxic situation--while able to rail about how it was all my fault, no less). I don't view the ability to leave as an indication that one doesn't care, only as an indication that there's something seriously toxic about the situation that the person leaving can't stand any longer. I was objecting to the statement that if you leave a relationship, it's because you don't care.

[pistachio]

i wanna hear from some more people that aren't intjs. we've had some already which is great but some S people would be nice to hear from.

as for myself, i can cut ties without looking back but it sucks to be on the receiving end. the feeling of being left is much worse than seamlessly leaving something behind by choice. not just in relationships either

[alphawolf]

Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The first few people who responded are a bunch of selfish, heartless bastards(half of my tongue is in cheek as I say this, but only half mind you To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ). If you can just dump someone in the trash like a used tampon and never give them a second thought, I question how much you cared about them in the first place. Of course, my opinion in this matter is strongly biased after being on the receiving end of one of these. They discussed this at length on another forum and they called it the "INFJ doorslam" It's obviously not unique to INFJ's although I suspect that J's in general would be the most likely culprits.

I've done it with one girlfriend (ISTJ) whom I had been seeing quite frequently for about 4 months. I dumped her without rhyme or reason because I felt myself to be in great danger. Her 12 year old daughter had started flirting with me very heavily and I knew that she would never believe me, and would have turned the entire thing around on me, so I just decided to vanish. She never contacted me again, so I was quite lucky.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Of course, my opinion in this matter is strongly biased after being on the receiving end of one of these. They discussed this at length on another forum and they called it the "INFJ doorslam" It's obviously not unique to INFJ's although I suspect that J's in general would be the most likely culprits.

Interesting terminology. I prefer to use the term, "toxic purge". But I like the nuance of finality in "doorslam".

BTW, INFJs are not flighty and not likely to commit a doorslam or toxic purge without warning, provocation or giving the individual several chances to redeem themselves. What did you do to piss off your INFJ so?

I suppose if we think you're no good from the start, then a doorslam is possible. But it's more likely that we'll just deny your existence to start...

---------- Post added 08-30-2010 at 08:32 AM ----------

Originally Posted by alphawolf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I've done it with one girlfriend (ISTJ) whom I had been seeing quite frequently for about 4 months. I dumped her without rhyme or reason because I felt myself to be in great danger. Her 12 year old daughter had started flirting with me very heavily and I knew that she would never believe me, and would have turned the entire thing around on me, so I just decided to vanish. She never contacted me again, so I was quite lucky.

It's more of a trust issue (between you and the ISTJ GF) than an issue of a brazen 12-year-old, no?

[Romeo]

Yes, I can and I do. I do it with much thought and I don't look back. I always give people the benefit of the doubt first but once I make my decision, I completely cut it off. I don't want to hurt anyone, I simple don't want to waste my time with those who become a strain on my life and prevent me from being free.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by Kisai To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	9 times out of 10, they are immature reactions. They're not conducive to closure and let bad feelings hang.

I really have no idea how often they're immature reactions. I'm not sure how I'd gauge that anyway, as I have only my personal experience and that of a limited groups of friends to draw on. You could well be right though -- I will say I'm still frequently astounded by how crazy people can get when it comes to in interpersonal relations.

That said, at least one might hope that in some manner people in my age group have found ways to leave some of the immaturity behind compared to when we were all, say, teens or 20-somethings? Age doesn't always give people wisdom, but sometimes it does help.

I do walk away from relationships and always have. I don't like doing it in a hasty fashion, without giving the other person lots of opportunities and information to see if the relationship is something worth working on, and I don't care to burn bridges under any circumstances.

At least as far as old boyfriends go, I must've done something right, because I'm still in touch from time to time with all but one of them (and there were quite a few) and there are no feelings of rancor on either side.

However, there are certain things that are guaranteed to get me to drop someone like a rock, hasty or otherwise. If memory serves I listed some of those in an earlier post? I would think those circumstances would be fairly obvious (abuse, etc.). Even so, I'm not going to be all stupid and mean about it...two wrongs hardly make a right.

When a relationship ends, someone is usually the first person to end it. I wouldn't be surprised to find that INTJs, being as we are, have a higher rate of being the person who ends it. Besides, I don't think it's particularly kind to string someone along when I know I'm not serious about a relationship anymore.

These days if anything's different, it's that I've learned in a lot of ways to spot troubles coming before someone gets that close. I can't remember the last actual doorslam I've had to do -- it's been a long time. Decades?

I'm able to steer clear of potential doorslam relationships like I simply couldn't when I was in my teens and early 20s. I just didn't have the experience or the tools then.

I have quietly disappeared from the lives of a few acquaintances who turned out to be entirely lacking in integrity, but I wouldn't argue I was ever "close" to any of them anyway. And for all that their actions have been nothing short of despicable, I am still civil to them on rare occasions when I meet them in public. Civility is free and harms no one, after all. However, in the unlikely event any of them calls my house, they'll be speaking to my voicemail, and they should expect no reply from me unless the reason they were calling was to make amends. Even so, I'll keep my distance. Fool me once and all that.
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---------- Post added 08-29-2010 at 08:32 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by katrin To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can do it but I will be upset, at least a little.

It seems my upset gets burn away in the process of determining it's time to really end something. By the time I've called it quits, I'm over that part.

[LifesEcstasy]

	Originally Posted by pistachio To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I can cut ties without looking back but it sucks to be on the receiving end. the feeling of being left is much worse than seamlessly leaving something behind by choice. not just in relationships either

Every experience in life is determined largely by how we choose to look at it. We can all experience an unwanted event and either be resilient or fall to pieces. There have been times in my life when I've been left only to discover a little way down the track it was actually the best thing to happen to me. I met someone better or got an even better job or moved in a new direction that was ultimately more satisfying for me. I've yet to experience a benefit to tenaciously clinging to a dead horse in the hopes it'll come back to life.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	To pull the plug means to suddenly sever all means of communication, and walk away on your own terms without giving the other party a chance for closure as well or clearing up of bad feelings. I fail to see how this can benefit anyone else but the person who is doing the cutting off, and for this reason it is both selfish and immature.

Yeah, because I think I really owe it to the person who raped me when I was a teenager to have that opportunity to keep in contact with me in case he ever wants to clean up his shit and have some closure...

How selfish and immature of me.

---------- Post added 08-29-2010 at 08:39 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by poetic intj To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Now if strong feelings were not involved in the first place, I can definitely pull the plug and never look back. I've done that before with things like a piano club at my college. But that's an entirely different kind of thing for me. Maybe you guys just never genuinely cared about anyone else before.

Yes, because you've never personally been in a position to have to make such a choice before, obviously the problem is that those of us who have are all just unfeeling heartless creatures who have no idea what it really means to genuinely care for someone.

---------- Post added 08-29-2010 at 08:52 PM ----------

Originally Posted by LifesEcstasy To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Every experience in life is determined largely by how we choose to look at it. We can all experience an unwanted event and either be resilient or fall to pieces. There have been times in my life when I've been left only to discover a little way down the track it was actually the best thing to happen to me. I met someone better or got an even better job or moved in a new direction that was ultimately more satisfying for me.

Whether it's being left in a relationship or getting laid off at work, I've found it just invaluable to look at those "bad" situations as if they were actually opportunities...to learn, to grow, to find something better. Yes, it's painful in the short term to be left in the dust, but as you say, on reflection it seems to turn out for the best if handled well.

	I've yet to experience a benefit to tenaciously clinging to a dead horse in the hopes it'll come back to life.

Me neither. To take it further, on the occasions when I clung too long, that clinging turned out to be actually harmful. Which is why I don't feel all guilty or sad about making a choice to leave if it comes to that.

[Elfrun]

	Originally Posted by pistachio To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i wanna hear from some more people that aren't intjs. we've had some already which is great but some S people would be nice to hear from.

Once someone has emotionally removed themselves from a relationship I can't see why they would dwell on it. I do see a difference here between T and F types though.

[BuShinJu]

Try this experiment:

Look at someone else and through the power of your own mind get them to lift their left hand. Now, through the power of your own mind get yourself to lift your left hand.

From carrying out this experiment I deduce it is much easier to control yourself than to control other people.

The way to get other people to change their behaviour is to communicate with them. If after communicating with them they still won't change their behaviour, which you personally find disturbing, then what course of action do you have? What possible benefit is there to remain in the cage with the tiger, entertainment, masochism, hope?

Time and energy is precious and should be spent in positive pursuits, not in defending yourself from attack.

[burazekun]

Originally Posted by Ilara To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

When did I claim not caring? I spent that entire post explaining that I did care, but that nevertheless the decision was the best one I could make for myself (I can't decide for him, but he benefited indirectly by also being out of the toxic situation--while able to rail about how it was all my fault, no less). I don't view the ability to leave as an indication that one doesn't care, only as an indication that there's something seriously toxic about the situation that the person leaving can't stand any longer. I was objecting to the statement that if you leave a relationship, it's because you don't care.

An overlooking error on my part. I apologize.

[alphawolf]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's more of a trust issue (between you and the ISTJ GF) than an issue of a brazen 12-year-old, no?

She thought her children could do no wrong. There is no penetrating that wall.