Dating and the Friendzone

**Aoiluna** · 04-16-2008, 08:02 PM

Ok so i'm in a bit of a dilemma and i'm sure there are many of you that have had this problem ( I hope). Anyways, to the point.

I have this guy friend that I have become quite close to in the past year, and it is almost to the point where I could call him a best friend. He is one of the few people who can talk me through "emotional problems" and actually give me advice that I can use. I believe he is an ISTx, not completely sure though. For the past 6 months or so we have casually flirted in the most friendliest way possible, and I admit to cuddling with him when inebriated. I feel really comfortable around him and he is real easy to trust which is saying a whole lot coming from me. Hes practically best friends with my best friend's boyfriend and we have a real tight group.

Well he has recently expressed interest in pursuing a relationship with me (not directly to me) but believes that a great friendship is more important than a relationship that may or may not work. My best friend (who is also pretty close to him) told me that she sees so much chemistry between us and has never seen me so comfortable with a guy touching me before (haha), even more so than my ex boyfriend. We have had many people tell us that we would make a cute couple and my brother and best friends would approve...so that wouldnt be a problem.

The problem is, I am completely confused. I have no idea if I actually like him or what. Usually I dont develop feelings for someone...actually that has never really happened. Ive never seen him as anything else but a friend, but I can see the possibility of being in a relationship with him. We are supposed to talk with each other this weekend about the whole situation to figure things out. We are both pretty logical, but lately my pro/con list has not been able to help me out here.

Everything to me seems so awkward and frightening. Meeting with him is going to be a nightmare because I'm pretty inept at feelings talk. There is also the problem of me not being sure whether or not I want a serious relationship and that fear of commitment (ha).

So has anyone else had this problem, how did you deal with it, and do you have any advice? I have no idea how to handle this.

**philonightmare** · 04-16-2008, 08:27 PM

I've been in a similar spot before. If you're willing to risk complicating your friendship with him by taking it to the relationship level, give it a try. If you two think you can handle a potential "break-up" as well, then all the better.

**blueback** · 04-16-2008, 08:40 PM

Oooo, that's complicated. It's always more explosive when the two of you share a close group of friends. When you break up you will probably split the group.

I think your best bet is to go for the relationship because otherwise you two will always be flirting with the idea and the strain will begin to ruin your group of friendships anyway.

What you have to make absolutely sure you do is go about it slowly and playfully. Don't label it and then try to live up to the label.

The two of you have to be very clear with each other that you will only advance the relationship incrementally. Maybe you can make a game out of deciding which step to take next and exchanging responsibility for taking that step. Basically, you have to move slowly enough that you can back off when one of you reaches your limit. If you move too fast you'll overshoot your comfort zone and then you'll probably suffer for a while before the relationship self-destructs. However, it's important to be clear that someone has to be responsible for each step, otherwise you'll plateau and the relationship will stagnate and end up just as bad as if it had exploded.

I think if you two are very realistic and mature about it you will have a good experience no matter what happens.

**DrEast** · 04-16-2008, 09:12 PM

xkcd: "My normal approach is useless here."

Let me ask you some things.

How would you feel if he died? Disappeared forever? Fell in love with someone else? Kissed you? Told you he didn't think it'd work? Broke up with you? Got a raise? Slept with you? Slept with someone else? Lied to you? Told you he loved you? Wrote a great novel? Wrote a crappy novel? Lost his job or failed his courses? Got addicted to heroine? Joined the Peace Corps? Lost a limb? Hit you? Lost his license? Bought a house? Snuck into your room? Ran a marathon? Ran over your dog? Baked you cookies? Did your laundry? Used your toothbrush? Woke you up crying? Left without saying a word?

Don't bother answering them all, but it might help if you consider your life in a vast array of different circumstances with and without him in it. It could help you center where you wish him to be in relation to you, and until you know that, you won't be able to achieve that balance you're seeking.

**Aoiluna** · 04-16-2008, 09:15 PM

Thanks you guys, your posts have helped me a ton. You have no idea how much better I feel after reading them.

**BlackHawk** · 04-17-2008, 02:46 PM

Any updates on your situation?
I am rather interested in how it works out, as I suspect I might be getting into something similar (no matter how far you dig your heels in . . .)

**Aoiluna** · 04-17-2008, 03:08 PM

	Originally Posted by BlackHawk To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Any updates on your situation? I am rather interested in how it works out, as I suspect I might be getting into something similar (no matter how far you dig your heels in . . .)

No big updates yet, but I will definitely keep you updated. I will probably see him tomorrow though. I'm extremely nervous because I feel like I ran out of time to think about it.

**JMX** · 04-17-2008, 03:22 PM

	Originally Posted by Aoiluna To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So has anyone else had this problem

Yes. More times than I care to remember.

	Originally Posted by Aoiluna To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	how did you deal with it

The same way you are. I let my NTJ run wild, trying to make myself decide if I wanted to marry a girl before I had even gone on one date with her.

	Originally Posted by Aoiluna To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	and do you have any advice?

Cool your J, excercise your P, and go out on a date with this guy. Try to avoid negotiating the relationship details 50 years in advance. Just talk with the guy and see if you have any common interests. For fun, and to keep your mind occupied during all the small talk, you can analyze this theory about "chemistry" that the F's are always talking about.

**azelismia** · 04-17-2008, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by JMX
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes. More times than I care to remember.

The same way you are. I let my NTJ run wild, trying to make myself decide if I wanted to marry a girl before I had even gone on one date with her.

Cool your J, excercise your P, and go out on a date with this guy. Try to avoid negotiating the relationship details 50 years in advance. Just talk with the guy and see if you have any common interests. For fun, and to keep your mind occupied during all the small talk, you can analyze this theory about "chemistry" that the F's are always talking about.

Chemistry is just the immediate feeling of wanting to jump someones bones or not.

**BlackHawk** · 04-17-2008, 03:33 PM

	Originally Posted by Aoiluna To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No big updates yet, but I will definitely keep you updated. I will probably see him tomorrow though. I'm extremely nervous because I feel like I ran out of time to think about it.

You both sound extremely honest, open, and willing to discuss the issue in the best way you can. I think you'll do okay. (or better!)
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

**Aoiluna** · 04-17-2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by JMX
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

The same way you are. I let my NTJ run wild, trying to make myself decide if I wanted to marry a girl before I had even gone on one date with her.

Cool your J, excercise your P, and go out on a date with this guy. Try to avoid negotiating the relationship details 50 years in advance. Just talk with the guy and see if you have any common interests. For fun, and to keep your mind occupied during all the small talk, you can analyze this theory about "chemistry" that the F's are always talking about.

Well we already seem to know quite a bit about each other, so the only things that would really change are the physical aspects and how much time we would be seeing each other. The idea of a date just irks me, though *shudders*. We would be better off hanging out watching a meteor shower or something. I know what you mean with the analyzing years down the road...I do that with just about every person I meet.

	Originally Posted by azelismia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Chemistry is just the immediate feeling of wanting to jump someones bones or not.

Oh is that what it is then....hmm.

	Originally Posted by BlackHawk To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You both sound extremely honest, open, and willing to discuss the issue in the best way you can. I think you'll do okay. (or better!) To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You speak the truth more than you know, thanks for the reassurance even though my stomach acids still want to digest my internal organs.

**Grizzly** · 04-18-2008, 12:00 AM

Just take things slowly at your comfort level, and talk with him enough to make sure you are both on the same page.

"Dates?" *Equally apprehensive shudder*
Just don't call it a date. Planning them out and thinking of it as a date is what causes the problem. Just schedule activities you both enjoy and can spend time together doing. It doesn't necessarily have to be just you two, a small group of supportive friends can be very helpful.

Define love or "that feeling"?, I cant say.
From my understanding from speaking with friends who are married or similarly entwined it involves a deep sense of belonging with the person and seeing each other as complimentary parts of the same organism. If you enjoy the time you spend interacting with him normally, and when you are flirting then I would say its very possible to find this "love" thing with him.
And the fact that you cuddle with each other when tipsy at least indicates a subconscious decision that you enjoy his company and contact.

**blueback** · 04-18-2008, 07:16 AM

We always do drunk what we want to do sober. That doesn't mean we end up enjoying it, but at least we got a chance to try it.

**Learning** · 04-18-2008, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Aoiluna
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ok so i'm in a bit of a dilemma and i'm sure there are many of you that have had this problem ( I hope). Anyways, to the point.
Hes practically best friends with my best friend's boyfriend and we have a real tight group.
Well he has recently expressed interest in pursuing a relationship with me (not directly to me) but believes that a great friendship is more important than a relationship that may or may not work.
...I am completely confused. I have no idea if I actually like him or what. Usually I dont develop feelings for someone...actually that has never really happened. Ive never seen him as anything else but a friend, but I can see the possibility of being in a relationship with him. We are supposed to talk with each other this weekend about the whole situation to figure things out. We are both pretty logical, but lately my pro/con list has not been able to help me out here.
Everything to me seems so awkward and frightening. Meeting with him is going to be a nightmare because I'm pretty inept at feelings talk. There is also the problem of me not being sure whether or not I want a serious relationship and that fear of commitment (ha).

It sounds like your group will be okay. Plus, if you're both pretty rational, you may well end up able to keep a friendship anyway if things don't work out. That's happened to me plenty of times with ex's. (Just need a little time at first to work out any emotional stuff on my own.)
Most everything you said here sounds like good stuff to communicate. You're wanting to take things slow & easy for example... one day at a time without a lot of pressure. People change all the time anyway, so you can relax about the pros/cons list if what you've observed from him so far seems pretty decent. I don't advocate drinking on the regular, but maybe have a glass of wine or something to help you relax if you are feeling excessively nervous beforehand. Let him know you really like him & are "attracted" to him (or any other encouraging words you can think of that are honest & vulnerable), and let him know that you're enjoying his friendship & are open to taking things to the next level but you want to go easy on commitment talk... maybe suggest that it'll come up naturally later on if that's how you feel. Best of luck to you.

**Aoiluna** · 04-19-2008, 11:06 PM

First of all, I want to thank everyone for their advice. Alright, now that the weekend for me is about over, here is an update. On Thursday he texted me while high real late at night expressing his strong likings for me and then making sure that him telling me wouldnt ruin our friendship. He asked me if we could take a walk over the weekend and I agreed to. On Friday a couple of friends and I met up with him to watch a friend in a musical. We acted how we normally do around each other, but he was uneasy the whole time and seemed real down. He told us about his night and then after the production he left for a party he promised someone he would go to. Today, we were supposed to meet up with him and he practically ditched us. Im pretty sure he is just trying to avoid me, and his immatureness irks me. Right now I really dont want anything to do with him and I'm afraid that our friendship wont go back to the way it was just because he decides to be awkward about it.

**Grizzly** · 04-20-2008, 08:05 PM

Then dont hound him about it.

Did you notice the behavior change before or after you started talking about it?
Or do you think it could be work/stress related?

Let things simmer at the level they were before and let him get comfortable again.

stasis · 04-21-2008, 12:02 PM

The conversation about Jane Eyre and Nancy Drew has been moved
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

**Learning** · 04-21-2008, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Aoiluna
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

...On Thursday he texted me while high real late at night expressing his strong likings for me and then making sure that him telling me wouldnt ruin our friendship. .. Im pretty sure he is just trying to avoid me, and his immatureness irks me. Right now I really dont want anything to do with him and I'm afraid that our friendship wont go back to the way it was just because he decides to be awkward about it.

Just a suggestion, but give it some time. If he is feeling rejected/down he may just need a bit of space & will get over it.

**Aoiluna** · 04-21-2008, 04:47 PM

Yea I've already decided on giving him time to think everything over and see what happens. I'm not really going to worry about it for another couple of weeks and if we dont talk by the time the semester is over, I'm going to contact him about it.

04-16-2008, 08:02 PM	#1
Aoiluna Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 187	Ok so i'm in a bit of a dilemma and i'm sure there are many of you that have had this problem ( I hope). Anyways, to the point. I have this guy friend that I have become quite close to in the past year, and it is almost to the point where I could call him a best friend. He is one of the few people who can talk me through "emotional problems" and actually give me advice that I can use. I believe he is an ISTx, not completely sure though. For the past 6 months or so we have casually flirted in the most friendliest way possible, and I admit to cuddling with him when inebriated. I feel really comfortable around him and he is real easy to trust which is saying a whole lot coming from me. Hes practically best friends with my best friend's boyfriend and we have a real tight group. Well he has recently expressed interest in pursuing a relationship with me (not directly to me) but believes that a great friendship is more important than a relationship that may or may not work. My best friend (who is also pretty close to him) told me that she sees so much chemistry between us and has never seen me so comfortable with a guy touching me before (haha), even more so than my ex boyfriend. We have had many people tell us that we would make a cute couple and my brother and best friends would approve...so that wouldnt be a problem. The problem is, I am completely confused. I have no idea if I actually like him or what. Usually I dont develop feelings for someone...actually that has never really happened. Ive never seen him as anything else but a friend, but I can see the possibility of being in a relationship with him. We are supposed to talk with each other this weekend about the whole situation to figure things out. We are both pretty logical, but lately my pro/con list has not been able to help me out here. Everything to me seems so awkward and frightening. Meeting with him is going to be a nightmare because I'm pretty inept at feelings talk. There is also the problem of me not being sure whether or not I want a serious relationship and that fear of commitment (ha). So has anyone else had this problem, how did you deal with it, and do you have any advice? I have no idea how to handle this.
Aoiluna is offline post a comment

04-16-2008, 08:27 PM	#2
philonightmare New Member [01%] MBTI: ENTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5	I've been in a similar spot before. If you're willing to risk complicating your friendship with him by taking it to the relationship level, give it a try. If you two think you can handle a potential "break-up" as well, then all the better.
philonightmare is offline post a comment

04-16-2008, 08:40 PM	#3
blueback Core Member [154%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,169	Oooo, that's complicated. It's always more explosive when the two of you share a close group of friends. When you break up you will probably split the group. I think your best bet is to go for the relationship because otherwise you two will always be flirting with the idea and the strain will begin to ruin your group of friendships anyway. What you have to make absolutely sure you do is go about it slowly and playfully. Don't label it and then try to live up to the label. The two of you have to be very clear with each other that you will only advance the relationship incrementally. Maybe you can make a game out of deciding which step to take next and exchanging responsibility for taking that step. Basically, you have to move slowly enough that you can back off when one of you reaches your limit. If you move too fast you'll overshoot your comfort zone and then you'll probably suffer for a while before the relationship self-destructs. However, it's important to be clear that someone has to be responsible for each step, otherwise you'll plateau and the relationship will stagnate and end up just as bad as if it had exploded. I think if you two are very realistic and mature about it you will have a good experience no matter what happens.
blueback is offline post a comment

04-16-2008, 09:12 PM	#4
DrEast Member [17%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 713	xkcd: "My normal approach is useless here." Let me ask you some things. How would you feel if he died? Disappeared forever? Fell in love with someone else? Kissed you? Told you he didn't think it'd work? Broke up with you? Got a raise? Slept with you? Slept with someone else? Lied to you? Told you he loved you? Wrote a great novel? Wrote a crappy novel? Lost his job or failed his courses? Got addicted to heroine? Joined the Peace Corps? Lost a limb? Hit you? Lost his license? Bought a house? Snuck into your room? Ran a marathon? Ran over your dog? Baked you cookies? Did your laundry? Used your toothbrush? Woke you up crying? Left without saying a word? Don't bother answering them all, but it might help if you consider your life in a vast array of different circumstances with and without him in it. It could help you center where you wish him to be in relation to you, and until you know that, you won't be able to achieve that balance you're seeking.
DrEast is offline post a comment

04-16-2008, 09:15 PM	#5
Aoiluna Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 187	Thanks you guys, your posts have helped me a ton. You have no idea how much better I feel after reading them.
Aoiluna is offline post a comment

04-17-2008, 02:46 PM	#6
BlackHawk Member [08%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 334	Any updates on your situation? I am rather interested in how it works out, as I suspect I might be getting into something similar (no matter how far you dig your heels in . . .)
BlackHawk is offline post a comment

04-18-2008, 12:00 AM	#12
Grizzly Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 194	Just take things slowly at your comfort level, and talk with him enough to make sure you are both on the same page. "Dates?" Equally apprehensive shudder Just don't call it a date. Planning them out and thinking of it as a date is what causes the problem. Just schedule activities you both enjoy and can spend time together doing. It doesn't necessarily have to be just you two, a small group of supportive friends can be very helpful. Define love or "that feeling"?, I cant say. From my understanding from speaking with friends who are married or similarly entwined it involves a deep sense of belonging with the person and seeing each other as complimentary parts of the same organism. If you enjoy the time you spend interacting with him normally, and when you are flirting then I would say its very possible to find this "love" thing with him. And the fact that you cuddle with each other when tipsy at least indicates a subconscious decision that you enjoy his company and contact.
Grizzly is offline post a comment

04-18-2008, 07:16 AM	#13
blueback Core Member [154%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6,169	We always do drunk what we want to do sober. That doesn't mean we end up enjoying it, but at least we got a chance to try it.
blueback is offline post a comment

04-19-2008, 11:06 PM	#15
Aoiluna Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 187	First of all, I want to thank everyone for their advice. Alright, now that the weekend for me is about over, here is an update. On Thursday he texted me while high real late at night expressing his strong likings for me and then making sure that him telling me wouldnt ruin our friendship. He asked me if we could take a walk over the weekend and I agreed to. On Friday a couple of friends and I met up with him to watch a friend in a musical. We acted how we normally do around each other, but he was uneasy the whole time and seemed real down. He told us about his night and then after the production he left for a party he promised someone he would go to. Today, we were supposed to meet up with him and he practically ditched us. Im pretty sure he is just trying to avoid me, and his immatureness irks me. Right now I really dont want anything to do with him and I'm afraid that our friendship wont go back to the way it was just because he decides to be awkward about it.
Aoiluna is offline post a comment

04-20-2008, 08:05 PM	#16
Grizzly Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 194	Then dont hound him about it. Did you notice the behavior change before or after you started talking about it? Or do you think it could be work/stress related? Let things simmer at the level they were before and let him get comfortable again.
Grizzly is offline post a comment

04-21-2008, 12:02 PM	#17
stasis Administrator MBTI: INTP Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,681	The conversation about Jane Eyre and Nancy Drew has been moved To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. .
stasis is online post a comment

04-21-2008, 04:47 PM	#19
Aoiluna Member [04%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 187	Yea I've already decided on giving him time to think everything over and see what happens. I'm not really going to worry about it for another couple of weeks and if we dont talk by the time the semester is over, I'm going to contact him about it.
Aoiluna is offline post a comment