[Parallel]

Originally Posted by green eyes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I personally think it will be near impossible for him to learn self-preservation by being dependent on you. INFJs tend to define themselves through their deep relationships, and break-ups are EXTREMELY difficult. I can understand wanting to give him hope and show him that not all people are going to take advantage of him, and that is very sweet and shows how much you really do care…but if you two do break-up "down the road", I believe that it COULD only reinforce what the rest of the world has done. I think he could possibly either go into his “cave” and feel worthless again…or stalk you out of disbelief (he won’t want to accept the pain/detachment of the process…and that he failed, again). I don’t want to see his self-worth being solely established by how you treat him. I am very open and honest with the people that I care about. I have two extremes around most people…I am either extremely quiet, or I say just about everything that is running through my brain…there is almost no filter. I try to stay quiet around most people because of this. I think his insecurities aren’t a typical long-term characteristic of an INFJ. I think he is somewhat in his “cave” right now, but he isn’t going to get anywhere if he is disillusioned by your relationship. My husband doesn’t accommodate my emotions at all, and he is a sensitive ENFP. He has pretty much always ignored me. I’ve resented him for his apathy, especially when I was pregnant and right after giving birth. During that time, I cried and "freaked out on him" almost daily. I am a much stronger and “in control” person these days, and I am only…23 going on 24. Maybe I should thank my mom and my husband for helping me grow?

Nono, I think you misunderstood me. I definitely do not want to make him dependent on me in any way; in fact the opposite. I want to show him that he can be in a relationship and still be independent. I am staying in this not only because I care about him as a person but to show him this and also to see if maybe I can nudge these changes and find in the end that I will be able to see the person that emerges after these changes is someone that I want to be with longterm since his qualities of wanting a long term committed relationship and wanting to do whatever he can to make me happy are qualities that are very rarely found in men these days.

He is actually the same age as you: 23. So I don't think he is this way because of his age but because of these constant depressing experiences with the wrong people.

I already see positive changes as I see him learning not to take bluntly honest things I say so sensitively and I notice that he is starting to try to make more sense of his feelings instead of just irrationally feeling them.

As for you talking about how you are either completely quiet around someone or completely uncensored, he is exactly the same way! Sometimes I can't help getting really freakin' annoyed by him because he will just run motor mouthed about complete nonsense and think its fun/funny and I'll wish I could tell him to stop being so immature and annoying, haha.

[Tuesday]

Originally Posted by green eyes To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

His world would be a little brighter because of you and not because of changes within himself. People only get hurt when they expect something, and he is expecting more from the world than it can possibly give him. And INFJs don’t change their values just because someone says it’s the right thing to do…it usually only happens with a WILLING self-reflection after time or many disappointments. I personally think it will be near impossible for him to learn self-preservation by being dependent on you. INFJs tend to define themselves through their deep relationships, and break-ups are EXTREMELY difficult. I can understand wanting to give him hope and show him that not all people are going to take advantage of him, and that is very sweet and shows how much you really do care…but if you two do break-up "down the road", I believe that it COULD only reinforce what the rest of the world has done. I think he could possibly either go into his “cave” and feel worthless again…or stalk you out of disbelief (he won’t want to accept the pain/detachment of the process…and that he failed, again). I don’t want to see his self-worth being solely established by how you treat him. INFJs like to figure people out to have a sense of control/security in a relationship. It is very difficult for us to lie or not be true to ourselves. Young INFJs are usually very trusting/gullible and sensitive. I think we’ve established how stubborn we are and how we like to please! I am very open and honest with the people that I care about. I have two extremes around most people…I am either extremely quiet, or I say just about everything that is running through my brain…there is almost no filter. I try to stay quiet around most people because of this. I think his insecurities aren’t a typical long-term characteristic of an INFJ. I think he is somewhat in his “cave” right now, but he isn’t going to get anywhere if he is disillusioned by your relationship. That made me laugh, and it also reminded me of something… I cried a lot as a child, so much so that my parents thought I was a very talented little actress…but it was all real. My mom never catered to my emotions. I was a very good child, but I would often get in trouble just because of my crying. My mom would often say, “What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger!” and “Don’t have a pity party!” When I was a teenager I began to think she was very mean, especially since she had her own emotional problems, like quite a few...uh..."outbursts of rage" during that time. My husband doesn’t accommodate my emotions at all, and he is a sensitive ENFP. He has pretty much always ignored me. I’ve resented him for his apathy, especially when I was pregnant and right after giving birth. During that time, I cried and "freaked out on him" almost daily. I am a much stronger and “in control” person these days, and I am only…23 going on 24. Maybe I should thank my mom and my husband for helping me grow?

I was an emotional child too. My mother has Borderline personality disorder so she couldn't handle my emotions. They were a reflection upon her and she thought 'my' inability to handle the emotions was a sign of weakness. She told people I was fragile, still does. She however, could have all the breakdowns and outbursts she wanted. I have built up walls to deal with her and learned to control myself around her to the point that she has referred to me as a cold-hearted bitch, a snob, a freak,unfeeling, the list goes on. So she probably did toughen me up a bit.

My husband is responsible for helping me to see a positive way to deal with my feelings and he helps me reign in my desire to spazz! I still have my moments of course but it is much better than it used to be.

[green eyes]

	Originally Posted by Parallel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Nono, I think you misunderstood me. I definitely do not want to make him dependent on me in any way; in fact the opposite.

I know you don’t want him to depend on you…I just think that that is likely to happen.

	He is actually the same age as you: 23. So I don't think he is this way because of his age but because of these constant depressing experiences with the wrong people. I already see positive changes as I see him learning not to take bluntly honest things I say so sensitively and I notice that he is starting to try to make more sense of his feelings instead of just irrationally feeling them.

Yes, I know how old he is...but he is yet to really learn anything productive from his life experiences.

I’m glad he is making progress on the small things, but the big things don’t come as easy. Remember, we are very stubborn and very idealistic.
You just need to REALLY make sure that he starts feeling confident in himself because HE believes in himself…because he realizes that he is worth something no matter what ANYONE does or says, including you.

I still think it is a bad idea to be in a relationship with the hopes of changing someone.

I just want you to be warned.

[Parallel]

Thanks, I really appreciate all your INFJs' inputs.

Greeneyes, that is the main question that's been nagging my mind from the beginning of this relationship: do you really think this relationship is not worth pursuing/working on because the differences between us are too vast to bridge the gap even if both of us are willing to put in the effort?

I don't know whether quitting this will just be submitting to the modern notion that if it just isn't perfect at the start it will never be because I feel that is just a cop out that I've been employing too long to every other relationship I've had before. And if I do break up with him now just because the relationship doesn't agree on our own ideals of one, I fear that I will be giving up a chance that could've really been love because I know it sounds like I just want to completely change him but that's probably because those things are the only things I mention here. But there are also a lot of things about him that I don't want to change.

[green eyes]

	Originally Posted by Parallel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	But there are also a lot of things about him that I don't want to change.

Oh wow, that made my “F” side tingle.

	Greeneyes, that is the main question that's been nagging my mind from the beginning of this relationship: do you really think this relationship is not worth pursuing/working on because the differences between us are too vast to bridge the gap even if both of us are willing to put in the effort?

Everything I’ve posted on this thread has come from either intense reading or reflection on my own thought patterns, behaviors, and natural tendencies. No, I’ve never stalked anyone…but I have come pretty close to such a thing.

INFJs are already independent in that we tend to make important decisions/figure things out/come to conclusions on our own in our own timing, much like INTJs. I think there is only so much that you can do to REALLY help him.

Do with that information what you will.

[Motor Jax]

Midlife At midlife an INFJ can best continue developing the thinking function in the form of logic and the pursuit of theory. The pleasure of taking a theoretical model and applying it to a situation may be a source of interest which an INFJ may have been neglecting. While continuing to pursue the person-to-person in feeling-type relationships, at midlife INFJs may want to get more involved in working with NT's, who offer a dimension not dominant in NF's and vice versa. Carefully providing for rest and taking care of physical health is vital to the INFJ at all times, and mandatory from midlife on.

i've never really stalked anyone either, but it doesn't mean i've never thought about it

the
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[44sunsets]

	Originally Posted by azelismia To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I knew I wasn't interested in him. But, I was also trying to better my social skills. So I told him. Sure, I'll go out with you, but I am just about positive I am not interested. So if you just want to go out to go out.. let's go out. So we did.

Jesus. Christ. Could you have done a worse thing to a man? OK, so he's pretty damn screwed up, but you knew that by going out with him "just as friends" wasn't going to end well, it never does.

If you don't want people freaking you out, then you have to put a stop to it from the start.

	Originally Posted by TheLastMohican To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I think that INFJ's and INTJ's would make very good pairs.

I think an INTJ man and INFJ woman potentially make a very good pair. But with gender atypical types, i.e. INFJ man and INTJ woman, that's gotta be the hardest combo in the world.

The INFJ man will be all for it, but usually the INTJ woman won't be so sure. For good reason, perhaps.

INFJ men will naturally tend to be more needy and emotionally blubbery, at least at a younger age, and this is a big turn off to most women.

INTJ women will resent the neediness and touchy-feely aspects of the INFJ men, even more so than most other women since they are so independent and generally don't like public displays of affection.

I've fallen for INTJ girls before. But part of me is hesitant, because I know the obstacles and challenges in an INTJ/INFJ pairing are extremely daunting. And that's with the INFJ man grown up and mature, and past the blubbery emotional wussy suck-up phase of his younger years.

	Originally Posted by Parallel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Thanks, I really appreciate all your INFJs' inputs. Greeneyes, that is the main question that's been nagging my mind from the beginning of this relationship: do you really think this relationship is not worth pursuing/working on because the differences between us are too vast to bridge the gap even if both of us are willing to put in the effort?

It's tough, because your guy sounds really emotionally immature, which is something that's separate from his MBTI personality type. I mean sure, a typical INFJ guy might drive an INTJ girl crazy anyway, even without any additional baggage factored into the equation.

It's up to you whether it's worth the effort, but I think it might just be a case of destiny and the stars not quite aligning at the right time and place. Maybe if you had met 10 years later...

You sound a lot more lenient and "soft" than most of the INTJ women I've known. The INTJs I know would never have given your guy a chance. Not saying this is a good or a bad thing, just sayin'.

	Originally Posted by Parallel To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	1. What is a good way to make an INFJ understand my need for independence and space without sounding like a cold asshole?

It's simple, bring his head out of the clouds and back to the ground gently, but be honest and tell it like it is. INFJs should be able to handle the truth, as long as it's not delivered with brutally cold efficiency
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Tell him about your need for space and solitude, and tell him that neediness is a turn-off. It would help if he understands the MBTI as well, obviously.

[Motor Jax]

	Originally Posted by 44sunsets To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	INFJ men will naturally tend to be more needy and emotionally blubbery, at least at a younger age, and this is a big turn off to most women.

i feel 'ya on this. i remember growing up and anytime someone would just start yelling at me, i got pretty blubbery. but i made myself outgrow that pretty quick, living with an alcoholic abusive stepdad that used to get in my face

	Originally Posted by 44sunsets To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	It's simple, bring his head out of the clouds and back to the ground gently, but be honest and tell it like it is. INFJs should be able to handle the truth, as long as it's not delivered with brutally cold efficiency To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

most effective when you go straight to the jugular