INT: J vs. P and accidentally moving between letters

**Farion** · 07-13-2010, 04:37 AM

My test typing results come in roughly descending percentage order: 100% Introverted, 100% iNtuition, 29% Thinking, 11% Judging. Now, the low thinking preference I tend to attribute to the fact that I actually can sympathize with other people, even if it doesn't control my actions like it might with other people. The judging, however, is troubling me because I don't really know what the difference between judging and perceiving is, precisely, and from what I do know about the difference, I seem to lean towards perceiving rather than judging, though overall I identify more with all the INTJ descriptions I've read as opposed to the INTP descriptions.

One little trait I share with INTPs is that I have a little obsession with shades of meaning in words. I don't consider that much of evidence for P over J though, since I see it as more of a quirk than an overlying trend.

The thing that really makes me wonder which letter describes me better though is that as far as I can tell, the main difference between P and J is in the concreteness of decision making. Namely, J's make a decision and stick to it, while P's are more likely to equivocate.

So, for my first question, what is the difference between P and J? I've looked (almost) everywhere, but P and J seem to be the least focused on letters.

Now, for the question that makes me feel less guilty about creating a topic to ask a rather generic question: is it possible to accidentally move between letters through an un-instinctive action, which becomes habit, which becomes ingrained into personality? I ask this because upon discovering that the difference between J and P was decision making, it occurred to me that I might have done just that. In elementary school, my classmates would always ask me for answers and help, which got annoying after a while, so I began equivocating whenever I gave an answer so that they would be less sure of asking me again but wouldn't think that I was being mean. Unfortunately, this developed into a reflex and now, over a decade later, unless I am passionate about a subject, I automatically equivocate my response to any question, no matter how certain I am of the answer (and I'm usually very certain, in my head at least).

**Elfrun** · 07-13-2010, 06:13 AM

Trouble with J/P is best looked at from a functions perspective.

INTJs are Ni-Te-Fi-Se
INTPs are Ti-Ne-Si-Fe

In other words they don't share any of their first four functions leading to very different ways of processing things.

With cognitive functions in mind one could not move from being an INTJ to an INTP.

Read up about functions here:
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	Originally Posted by Farion To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, for my first question, what is the difference between P and J? I've looked (almost) everywhere, but P and J seem to be the least focused on letters.

You will find less on them, they have been added on by Myers-Briggs from Jung's system. Basically all P does is extroverts the N/S dichotomy, while J extroverts the T/F dichotomy. For extroverts that's their dominant function, for introverts it's their auxiliary. Therefore in the INTJ/INTP example above the second function for INTJs is Extroverted Thinking (judging function) while for INTPs it's Extroverted iNtuition (perceiving function).

IOW, the answer is functions
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**Farion** · 07-13-2010, 08:43 AM

Thanks for the answer on switching between the letters, that makes perfect sense that an entire group of functions can't transition.

The problem, though, with using the functions to determine whether I'm INTP or INTJ is that I very strongly identify with both Ni and Ti, perhaps slightly favoring Ni, and I also identify with Te and Ne, slightly favoring Ne, which leaves me right where I started. Moving to the tertiary functions... I think I use those about equally as well, which is to say a little bit, but not much. Same with inferior.

Ah well, I think I'll say I side with INTJ because the description of Ni includes both the words 'paradoxical' and 'transcendent.'
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**Besinski** · 07-13-2010, 09:22 AM

The MBTI system isn't without it's flaws for typing people.

MBTI only tests how well you you think you consciously use certain functions, and it can all go wrong from there. Example: An INFJ who has worked hard to develop their tertiary Ti, when taking the test, may decide that they are more of a thinker, due to them holding this part of themselves in high esteem due to the effort they have put into it.
What is actually going on in an INFJ is the hierarchy Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. But the test may categorize them as an INTJ, or INTP.
Also people may answer the questions according to how they ideally see themselves, how they feel they should be etc.

Relating yourself to a personality description is not the way to go about it either, it's best to read about the functions and see which four you think you use.
If you read about Ni and you feel its your dominant (the function you just can't help but falling back into, as it's the most stimulating for you to use) then that tells you your inferior is Se (the opposite).
Now, if you're sure you're an Ni dominant, then you must be a J, as Ni is a directive function, so your auxiliary must also be a directive (J) function, which entails Fe, Te, and Si.

Your top functions can't both have an introverted orientation (otherwise you would not have an effective cognitive apparatus, you need a way of engaging the outside world, and then a way of engaging your inner world to make decisions from this).
That leaves Fe or Te, and if you read upon those (provided you read decent descriptions) you'll be able to easily decide which you use.

So after reading upon the cognitive functions you would glean that being Ni dom = Se inferior, and having Te auxiliary = Fi tertiary. Giving Ni-Te-Fi-Se as your cognitive hierarchy.

On a side note, these are the functions you consciously use, there are lots of people saying their are an INFJ (example) using Fi, which would not be possible, as they can't consciously use it.
What may be happening is they have been mistyped and are using it, or they are using Ni-Fe-Ti-Se in such a way that they think they are producing a result that is Fi (when it certainly isnt').

And if you got through all that jargon, have a nice sleep.

**Kisai** · 07-13-2010, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Farion
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The problem, though, with using the functions to determine whether I'm INTP or INTJ is that I very strongly identify with both Ni and Ti, perhaps slightly favoring Ni, and I also identify with Te and Ne, slightly favoring Ne, which leaves me right where I started. Moving to the tertiary functions... I think I use those about equally as well, which is to say a little bit, but not much. Same with inferior.

ISTP: Ti Se Ni Fe

**Amphorian** · 07-13-2010, 06:07 PM

There is quite a few ISTJs, ISTPs, INTPs and INFJs that get mistyped as INTJs on the MBTI testing. This might be of interest to you:
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**Gobbbler** · 07-13-2010, 11:08 PM

I always say that I think it is a continuum. There are more than 16 types of people in this world, you may be one who has some P tendencies/preferences and some J ones.

**Besinski** · 07-14-2010, 05:03 AM

	Originally Posted by Gobbbler To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I always say that I think it is a continuum. There are more than 16 types of people in this world, you may be one who has some P tendencies/preferences and some J ones.

Yep, but remember if you have Directive (J) functions as your Dominant and Auxiliary, you are naturally going to find it more stimulating to be directive (that was vague).
But anyway, as you get older, if you are a J then you will gradually gain better use of your inferior (P) functions, becoming more aware of them, and recognising them more as a part of your conscious self.
Which could be confusing you if you are able to identify with your lower functions well enough.

07-13-2010, 04:37 AM	#1
Farion New Member [01%] MBTI: INTx Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 62	My test typing results come in roughly descending percentage order: 100% Introverted, 100% iNtuition, 29% Thinking, 11% Judging. Now, the low thinking preference I tend to attribute to the fact that I actually can sympathize with other people, even if it doesn't control my actions like it might with other people. The judging, however, is troubling me because I don't really know what the difference between judging and perceiving is, precisely, and from what I do know about the difference, I seem to lean towards perceiving rather than judging, though overall I identify more with all the INTJ descriptions I've read as opposed to the INTP descriptions. One little trait I share with INTPs is that I have a little obsession with shades of meaning in words. I don't consider that much of evidence for P over J though, since I see it as more of a quirk than an overlying trend. The thing that really makes me wonder which letter describes me better though is that as far as I can tell, the main difference between P and J is in the concreteness of decision making. Namely, J's make a decision and stick to it, while P's are more likely to equivocate. So, for my first question, what is the difference between P and J? I've looked (almost) everywhere, but P and J seem to be the least focused on letters. Now, for the question that makes me feel less guilty about creating a topic to ask a rather generic question: is it possible to accidentally move between letters through an un-instinctive action, which becomes habit, which becomes ingrained into personality? I ask this because upon discovering that the difference between J and P was decision making, it occurred to me that I might have done just that. In elementary school, my classmates would always ask me for answers and help, which got annoying after a while, so I began equivocating whenever I gave an answer so that they would be less sure of asking me again but wouldn't think that I was being mean. Unfortunately, this developed into a reflex and now, over a decade later, unless I am passionate about a subject, I automatically equivocate my response to any question, no matter how certain I am of the answer (and I'm usually very certain, in my head at least).
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07-13-2010, 08:43 AM	#3
Farion New Member [01%] MBTI: INTx Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 62	Thanks for the answer on switching between the letters, that makes perfect sense that an entire group of functions can't transition. The problem, though, with using the functions to determine whether I'm INTP or INTJ is that I very strongly identify with both Ni and Ti, perhaps slightly favoring Ni, and I also identify with Te and Ne, slightly favoring Ne, which leaves me right where I started. Moving to the tertiary functions... I think I use those about equally as well, which is to say a little bit, but not much. Same with inferior. Ah well, I think I'll say I side with INTJ because the description of Ni includes both the words 'paradoxical' and 'transcendent.' To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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07-13-2010, 09:22 AM	#4
Besinski New Member [01%] MBTI: INTP Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 11	The MBTI system isn't without it's flaws for typing people. MBTI only tests how well you you think you consciously use certain functions, and it can all go wrong from there. Example: An INFJ who has worked hard to develop their tertiary Ti, when taking the test, may decide that they are more of a thinker, due to them holding this part of themselves in high esteem due to the effort they have put into it. What is actually going on in an INFJ is the hierarchy Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. But the test may categorize them as an INTJ, or INTP. Also people may answer the questions according to how they ideally see themselves, how they feel they should be etc. Relating yourself to a personality description is not the way to go about it either, it's best to read about the functions and see which four you think you use. If you read about Ni and you feel its your dominant (the function you just can't help but falling back into, as it's the most stimulating for you to use) then that tells you your inferior is Se (the opposite). Now, if you're sure you're an Ni dominant, then you must be a J, as Ni is a directive function, so your auxiliary must also be a directive (J) function, which entails Fe, Te, and Si. Your top functions can't both have an introverted orientation (otherwise you would not have an effective cognitive apparatus, you need a way of engaging the outside world, and then a way of engaging your inner world to make decisions from this). That leaves Fe or Te, and if you read upon those (provided you read decent descriptions) you'll be able to easily decide which you use. So after reading upon the cognitive functions you would glean that being Ni dom = Se inferior, and having Te auxiliary = Fi tertiary. Giving Ni-Te-Fi-Se as your cognitive hierarchy. On a side note, these are the functions you consciously use, there are lots of people saying their are an INFJ (example) using Fi, which would not be possible, as they can't consciously use it. What may be happening is they have been mistyped and are using it, or they are using Ni-Fe-Ti-Se in such a way that they think they are producing a result that is Fi (when it certainly isnt'). And if you got through all that jargon, have a nice sleep.
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07-13-2010, 06:07 PM	#6
Amphorian Core Member [311%] MBTI: ISTP Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 12,457	There is quite a few ISTJs, ISTPs, INTPs and INFJs that get mistyped as INTJs on the MBTI testing. This might be of interest to you: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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07-13-2010, 11:08 PM	#7
Gobbbler Member [21%] MBTI: INTJ Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 867	I always say that I think it is a continuum. There are more than 16 types of people in this world, you may be one who has some P tendencies/preferences and some J ones.
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