[Firebrand]

Lately I've been thinking about this decade (yes, I am a child of the 80's) and the main question to fall out of my consideration of it is :

Why were there so many overachievers during the 80's?
What about that culture/time period made everyone want to "go for it"?

Any theories? (Just to make it official - Cocaine is not an answer).

[Dover]

What do you mean by "overachievers?"

I don't think there were a lot more of them, just more opportunity than there is now.

[yoginimama]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What about that culture/time period made everyone want to "go for it"?

Loosening of cultural prohibitions against greed and materialism. It was the "Reagan Revolution," remember? Suddenly it was okay to stop thinking about the whales and your fellow man. You could be openly out for yourself. And the beginning of deregulation and tax cuts meant that there was potential for ambitious people to make tons of money in typical yuppie fields like finance and business.

As with the sexual revolution of the previous decade, some people got a little giddy with the new freedoms and decided to "go for it" in a big way.

But if you are a child of the 80s, you know that this was only one aspect of that decade. There were many powerful countercurrents to that trend. "Everyone" did not want to "go for it," thank gawd.

[Mogura]

FB, I can't answer your question, but I would like to add one of my own: Why the hell did break dancing become so damn popular? I thought it was utter shite even way back when.

Thank you...

[themuzicman]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lately I've been thinking about this decade (yes, I am a child of the 80's) and the main question to fall out of my consideration of it is : Why were there so many overachievers during the 80's? What about that culture/time period made everyone want to "go for it"? Any theories? (Just to make it official - Cocaine is not an answer).

The Reagan years were years of hope and prosperity, not only due to a variety of economic factors, but due to the fact that our President inspired us both in word and indeed. There were real opportunities due to reforming regulation (although it wasn't all positive), and people were taking advantage of those things.

Plus the music was better.

[INTJoe]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why were there so many overachievers during the 80's?

You're begging the question here.

Please show data that indicates there were a lot of "overachievers" in the 1980s.

[kepstein8888]

	Originally Posted by INTJoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Please show data that indicates there were a lot of "overachievers" in the 1980s.

If there were, I wasn't one of them.

From what I recall, there were a lot of greedy, unscrupulous f*****s cutting corners and ripping other people off to make it appear like they were "achievers" of some sort...kind of like today. Speaking of which, I recently saw an article on Michael Milken, another fine example of how our "justice" system works.

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[thewraith]

All those hippies found out they had to do something for money; why not lie, cheat, and steal?

Hey INTJoe - GnR is my all time favorite band. It's one of the things that made the 80's awesome.

[daydreamer]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Lately I've been thinking about this decade (yes, I am a child of the 80's) and the main question to fall out of my consideration of it is : Why were there so many overachievers during the 80's? What about that culture/time period made everyone want to "go for it"? Any theories? (Just to make it official - Cocaine is not an answer).

suddenly idealistic hippies from the 60s got greedy and tried to convince their chidren's generation that making money was the new social cause?

[Firebrand]

	Originally Posted by INTJoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You're begging the question here. Please show data that indicates there were a lot of "overachievers" in the 1980s.

Ironic, since your avatar is Axel Rose. Case in point.

Ok, I'll list a few examples I can think of offhand :

- Guitar Players :
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,
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,
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,
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,
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. Not to mention all the crazy shredders in hair metal such as
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,
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,
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,
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, etc. Even just the general "vibe" to the music was elated and optimistic. The
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had a feeling of "go for it" to it.

- The modern video game industry was created during this era. Most notably Atari, Activision, and Nintendo. After Nolan Bushnell of Atari caused the video game crash of the early 80's, he went off to start Chuck E Cheese.

- Cartoons : The messages in cartoons was one of capability, self-reliance, positivity, and strength. HeMan quote : "I have the power". GiJoe quote "Knowing is half the battle". The psychology infused into the media of the day had good capability-enhancing messages.

- Movies : We're still making sequels and remakes of the movies from this era.

- Electronics : Tended to be higher-quality. This ties in to the whole capitalism part. It also ties into the fact that microchips and printed circuits proliferated.

The whole era seemed to be one of high standards. Pygmalion effect.

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	FB, I can't answer your question, but I would like to add one of my own: Why the hell did break dancing become so damn popular? I thought it was utter shite even way back when.

Because break dancing's awesome. What's wrong with you?

[INTJoe]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ironic, since your avatar is Axel Rose. Case in point. - The modern video game industry was created during this era. Most notably Atari, Activision, and Nintendo. After Nolan Bushnell of Atari caused the video game crash of the early 80's, he went off to start Chuck E Cheese.

Axl Rose was an overachiever? How do you know this?

Do you realize he came out with a critically-acclaimed album in 2008? He wasn't just an '80s wunderkind. And most of those shredders you list kinda suck at the guitar. They were only overachievers to stoners who wanted to hear 9 million notes per second.

Also, the video game industry began well before the 1980s. Nintendo gaming traces back to the mid-'70s. Atari dates back to 1972.

It should be noted that the Dow began a major bull market around 1982. Even the "crash" of 1987 was only about a 33% retractment of the growth since 1982. And it began bulling immediately afterwards until the end of the decade where the Dow was back above the pre-'87 crash high.

[Firebrand]

Ok, so thanks for confirming that you're just being completely ridiculous.

[Mogura]

I think we tend to idealize the decade we spent the majority of our adolescence in-good times. We look on previous decades as "geeky" or "losery", and we look on subsequent decades as "everything is going downhill".

The 80's music scene was dominated by British pop, even in the US. It was cheerful, optimistic, silly and feel good. Then came the 90's. Grunge dominated. It was mechanical, obnoxious, serious and depressing. Prozac generation.

As for 80's guitar icons, Eddie van Halen stands out as being particularly talented and memorable. The 80's was all about synthpop (guitars were subdued), so you'd be hard-pressed to find a guitar trailblazer representing that period*.

*Excepting perhaps Johnny Marr (The Smiths)

[INTJoe]

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Ok, so thanks for confirming that you're just being completely ridiculous.

I didn't have time earlier to respond to everything but I guess I will now since I'm being ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Ok, I'll list a few examples I can think of offhand : - Guitar Players : To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . Not to mention all the crazy shredders in hair metal such as To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , etc. Even just the general "vibe" to the music was elated and optimistic. The To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. had a feeling of "go for it" to it.

How are these "crazy shredders" overachievers? Their success was directly related to people wanting to listen to them. How is that overachieving? I think the word you're looking for is "achieving". And lol @ citing these guys as paragons of the axe. Take a look 15 years prior at what Jeff Beck, Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, and Jimmy Page were doing. Most people who aren't insane would agree that he mid-to-late '60s was the golden era of guitarwork. But I guess we should just believe you that the '80s guitarwork totally transcended what we thought was humanly possible. And by the way Van Halen was sweep-picking in the '70s.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- The modern video game industry was created during this era. Most notably Atari, Activision, and Nintendo. After Nolan Bushnell of Atari caused the video game crash of the early 80's, he went off to start Chuck E Cheese.

Again, you're just wrong here. Gaming started long before the 1980s. And again, how is this an example of overachieving or going for it? I don't really get it. There was a market for something and some smart people filled that void. That's achievement. Achievement doesn't seem to be a product of just the '80s. Yeah video games pretty much blew up with Nintendo circa Christmas 1986 but that market was yeeears in the making.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- Cartoons : The messages in cartoons was one of capability, self-reliance, positivity, and strength. HeMan quote : "I have the power". GiJoe quote "Knowing is half the battle". The psychology infused into the media of the day had good capability-enhancing messages.

A hogwash argument, with blanket assumptions on your part. Also crucial of you to cherry-pick a couple cartoons which you think help prove your point. What about Dennis the Menace? Woody Woodpecker? You've given us no real proof here that the cartoons (or other media) of the decade were any different or positive-message-laden than in any other decade. "The psychology infused into the media of the day had good capability-enhancing messages"??? Huh?? I guess I'll just take your word for it, although you've presented no evidence as to how this attitude differed from other decades. I guess "capability-enhancing messages" were invented in the 1980s?

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- Movies : We're still making sequels and remakes of the movies from this era.

????? This isn't an argument for your side. How does this prove that people in the '80s were overachieving and going for it? And what other era would we be making sequels from? I'm not expecting The Wizard of Oz 2: Dorothy Takes Manhattan anytime soon.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	- Electronics : Tended to be higher-quality. This ties in to the whole capitalism part. It also ties into the fact that microchips and printed circuits proliferated.

True. Since the 1980s, electronics have plummeted in quality. The 1980s was the Golden Era of electronics. I mean did you see Zach Morris' dad's phone!? Gordon Gekko had an 8" computer monitor! 8 inches!!! Electronics were terrible leading up to the '80s then on New Years Day, 1980 they were suddenly awesome because people were Going For It and retarded people were able to overachieve suddenly.

	Originally Posted by Firebrand9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	The whole era seemed to be one of high standards. Pygmalion effect.

Your whole premise is just silly. I still don't understand how you can call people overachievers.

[Firebrand]

I'm not surprised you don't get it. Everyone else was able to offer a meaningful reply. Obviously you're hanging up on the term overachiever. You've probably had a hard week. I forgive you.

A few points :

Atari 2600 : Main source of Atari's success Late 70's.

Games : Blew up being the key point. All of society blew up building eons upon eons of evolution on multiple tangents to lead to a certain point. History deals with a snapshot of that, again, hence this thread.

Guitarists : Your viewpoints are subjective. Again, EVH was doing things like Eruption in the late 70's, which gave birth to all the guys I listed. And George Lynch started right around that time too, so crap argument. And at that, where these guys came from or the literal history of guitar work was not the point of the thread. Point is guitar was taken to 11 in the 80's. Hence the overachieving thrust of this thread. Getting it yet?

Cartoons : there were simply more of them during this era.

Movies : the movie you mention was actually done before 1980. Don't know if you knew that.

Somehow you missed the point that I was not saying there have never ever been achievment of any kind during any other era. Go back, and reread. I don't. There was simply a thrust in the culture during that decade. Don't get your panties in a bunch over this.

[INTJoe]

"A thrust in culture".

Decades in the last Century in which there was a thrust in culture:

19-aughts
1910's
1920's
1930's*
1940's
1950's
1960's
1970's
1980's
1990's

*I suppose an argument could be made that not much Cultural Thrust occured during the '30s. The Cultural Thrust meter only read 7.225 for this decade. However, the Roaring Twenties was such a boost that if you look at that 2-decade swatch it probably averages out similar to just about any other decade.

And I'm pretty sure your comprehension is far worse than mine, seeing as the Wizard of Oz 2 quip went right over your head.

And mega lol @ "guitar was taken to 11 in the '80s". Watch Spinal Tap a bit much? Some guys got really good at playing a lot of notes really fast! More notes = Golden Age, am I right??

Your examples are so borderline silly that I'm surprised you didn't mention breakdancing as an indication of Going For It and Overachievement.

[Pachystima]

I certainly don't remember an abundance of "over-achievers" from the 80's. I have never heard of most of the musicians noted above but I will freely admit that my musical tastes don't go that way. I suppose you could call Michael Milken an overachiever; sort of like Bonny and/or Clyde. I remember double-digit inflation and Ronald Regan and the hubris and overweening self-satisfaction of the "yuppies" from the 80's but certainly nothing that I would have written down to tell my kids about later.

I suspect that the generation in which an individual came of age is special to that individual. I have seen many generations grow up. With the notable exception of those who came of age during the Great Depression and WW-II, none of them seem particularly special to me.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by INTJoe To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And mega lol @ "guitar was taken to 11 in the '80s". Watch Spinal Tap a bit much? Some guys got really good at playing a lot of notes really fast! More notes = Golden Age, am I right??

"[More notes] make[s] too many demands on the royal ear..."
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(paraphrasing a famous quote from an 80's movie)

[Allie]

Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I think we tend to idealize the decade we spent the majority of our adolescence in-good times. We look on previous decades as "geeky" or "losery", and we look on subsequent decades as "everything is going downhill". The 80's music scene was dominated by British pop, even in the US. It was cheerful, optimistic, silly and feel good. Then came the 90's. Grunge dominated. It was mechanical, obnoxious, serious and depressing. Prozac generation. As for 80's guitar icons, Eddie van Halen stands out as being particularly talented and memorable. The 80's was all about synthpop (guitars were subdued), so you'd be hard-pressed to find a guitar trailblazer representing that period*. *Excepting perhaps Johnny Marr (The Smiths)

Sounds about right. The eighties were memorable for:

• Music - Notably as the beginning of the electronic music age. We used to own a personal synchronized synthesizer box that was a huge standalone system. It was the craziest thing. Pop was born (Michael Jackson anyone?) and hard rock/heavy metal was mainstream and in full swing (KISS anyone?).
• Fashion - Weird fashion that has been the butt of fashion jokes, and has not been recycled in whole as others have. Bulky shoulder pads, zippered jackets, genie pants, leg warmers and torn sweatshirts! tshirts and coat jackets (Miami Vice anyone?), etc.
• Science fiction - The birth of Cyberpunk!
• Optimism - The decade as the end of innocence with the awareness of AIDs and the internet with its 24/7 news and information thereafter. I remember being quite naive and looking at the world through a rose colored glass. My kids are more aware than I was at their age.

Funny story that would raise quite a few eyebrows today. My younger sister and I were alone at home one day and some traveling missionaries who went door-to-door to convert or recruit new members knocked on our doors. Not sure what the start of the greetings and conversations were, but before we knew it, all of us were in the living room. We were on our knees praying and they were talking about Jesus being baptized in the river, forming a cross with his body being perpendicular to the water. I was thinking the whole time how I could get them to leave as politely as possible. Luckily Mom came home at this point. Thank God!
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This is unheard of today, unless they are inviting trouble.

[SeaCzar]

The 80s were bright and optimistic because we were rid of the 70s. The 70s saw the US lose the Vietnam war, Watergate, inflation, stagflation, sky high interest rates, two oil crises (and resulting gas lines), the Soviet Union at its most perfidious, hostages in Iran, plus various other assorted bullshit. Jimmy Carter was the worst president since Herbert Hoover. The country was a fucking mess.

I was in college in the late 70s and early 80s. At that time, campuses were not liberal bastions, but Reagan Country. The 80s reflected the leaders of the time, who had can do attitudes, at least in the White House and 10 Downing Street.

[Allie]

Yes. Optiimism was a major part of the 80's.

I did feel and remember so much optimism then, within and without. Coming to America in the 80's was perfect timing then!
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It was a whole new world. It felt like nothing bad would happen in America, so it was so easy to forget about the past and literally start all over again, in every way. Only good things are to come if you apply yourself, and anything is possible. It felt like being invincible.

And the movies and sitcoms! They were so...cocooned somehow. We had Revenge of the Nerds, for goodness sakes!

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by Allie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Coming to America

That was a great 80's movie...

---------- Post added 07-16-2010 at 02:38 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by SeaCzar To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was in college in the late 70s and early 80s. At that time, campuses were not liberal bastions, but Reagan Country. The 80s reflected the leaders of the time, who had can do attitudes, at least in the White House and 10 Downing Street.

Children of the 80's were the offspring of dippy hippy parents of the 60's and 70's. What better way to "rebel" against the parents than to be a Reaganite? The 80's sitcom Family Ties captured that dynamic quite well...

[yoginimama]

	Originally Posted by Allie To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Yes. Optiimism was a major part of the 80's. I did feel and remember so much optimism then, within and without.

Hmm. That was not my experience. I remember feeling like about 45% of the population was all clustered together being optimistic and the rest of us were standing around going, "About what?"

Some of our concerns:

--We were just getting the picture about global warming
--Nukes, a HUGE problem then, and much worse now because of the physical insecurity of the devices once contained in the former USSR, but no one's got time to worry about that because of the BP spill
--And speaking of oil spills...Exxon Valdez, great way to close out the decade
--And speaking of nuclear stuff--Chernobyl
--For Americans, Reagan's antagonistic and aggressive attitude and actions (Grenada, Libya) and his triumphalistic nationalism
--The rise of economic neoliberalism (Thatcherism, Reaganomics) which has since bankrupted the United States fifty times over and created what looks like a permanent and ever-expanding underclass
--El Salvador, Nicaragua and the US dirty-wars there (we were teaching torture techniques to the governments and right-wing militias of those and other countries)
--Middle Eastern terrorism (plus ca change...)

Also, I have to dispute the idea that the dominant music form was cheery synth-pop. First, a lot of synth-pop was mordant and despairing (Joy Division, the Cure, Psychedelic Furs). Second, do not forget about punk, metal, rap and the nascent hip-hop....none of which were exactly on board with the fragile, willed optimism of the "grab-it-while-we-can" crowd.

[Mogura]

	Originally Posted by yoginimama To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Also, I have to dispute the idea that the dominant music form was cheery synth-pop. First, a lot of synth-pop was mordant and despairing (Joy Division, the Cure, Psychedelic Furs). Second, do not forget about punk, metal, rap and the nascent hip-hop....none of which were exactly on board with the fragile, willed optimism of the "grab-it-while-we-can" crowd.

Dispute if you will, record sales do not lie.

Those bands you refer to were born out of the late 70's post-punk movement. They didn't begin to enjoy widespread popularity and increased record sales until they dumped their mordant sound (which I personally liked, by the way) and adopted synthesizers. When New Order gained mainstream popularity (Low Life was their breakthrough album--the first time I heard Perfect Kiss, I thought it was Human League
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), a lot of people were surprised to learn that they were "a whole other band" some time before. By the 80's punk was dead, disco was dead, metal was "hard rock", etc. *makes mental note to throw Power, Corruption, and Lies on the iPod*

It wasn't all optimism, though. I remember The Day After scaring the shit out of that generation...

[SeaCzar]

	Originally Posted by Mogura To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Children of the 80's were the offspring of dippy hippy parents of the 60's and 70's. What better way to "rebel" against the parents than to be a Reaganite? The 80's sitcom Family Ties captured that dynamic quite well...

I have to laugh at this, and its true. My parents were Republicans of the country club set, but many friends had parents that were the leftist hippy types. Coming out of the closet as a Republican was akin to coming out of the closet as gay. Leftist parents could not figure out what they had done wrong.